Shmups that haven't stood the test of time

robthebanks · Post by **robthebanks** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:53 am

I like the old shooter still, I just don't expect bullet hell... They're worthy if rated on their own terms...

And its absolute heresy to say that DoDonpachi and R Type haven't stood the test of time. I'm playing both feverishly right now...

Fenrir · Post by **Fenrir** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:00 am

MSZ wrote:
dmzach wrote:axelay still owns it looks good and has cool weapons. The vertical stages are not the best, but the horizontal ones are so good
Especially stage 2 and 4...

Ok, this can be admitted. The hori stages are indeed better than the verti stages. Deliberately stuffing players with as much mode7 as the machine can handle, regardless of its effect on gameplay, can choke them to death.

Also I strongly disagree with R-Type. It still r0xx0rs and a bloody lot +1.

I also think that Rayforce and Gradius G are aging quite badly.
When I bought Rayforce I spent days looking for my jaw.
Now it's kind of meh.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:04 am

Heh, fun topic over at Retrogaming Roundtable recently.

Me: Space Invaders and Pac-Man are actually pretty overrated
Proud Oldtimer: Why, Space Invaders and Pac-Man were everywhere! They can't possibly be overrated because look how popular they were! If you were around in the 80s you know what I mean.

croikle · Post by **croikle** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:21 am

I still think Rayforce has excellent presentation, even if the scaling effects are somewhat superseded by 3d these days. It's the right way to do "cutscenes" in a shmup.

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:27 am

Don Pachi isn't dated just because it has a slow first stage. Don't be trolly.

I submit Raiden 1 and Blazing Lazers.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:07 am

szycag wrote:I submit Raiden 1 and Blazing Lazers.

Agreed, although I sort of enjoy Raiden. Blazing Lazarz, not so much.

Agree with croikle that Rayforce looks as good as ever.

Actually, games don't get better or worse looking; our expectations just shift. Mainly hurts games that look nice but don't run fast enough due to their requirements.

ZOM · Post by **ZOM** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:08 am

Fenrir wrote: ...I also think that Rayforce and Gradius G are aging quite badly....

Blasphemy!

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:42 am

About all Taito F3 games are (in my book) sucky.

Jockel · Post by **Jockel** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:52 pm

Fenrir · Post by **Fenrir** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:31 pm

I think we'll all kill eachother in a while

By the way, I'm expecting also Ikaruga to age badly, especially graphically.

Mortificator · Post by **Mortificator** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:13 pm

Ed Oscuro wrote:Space Invaders and Pac-Man are actually pretty overrated

Pac-Man is overrated. Ms. Pac-Man? GTFO.

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:35 pm

szycag wrote:Don Pachi isn't dated just because it has a slow first stage. Don't be trolly.

I submit Raiden 1 and Blazing Lazers.

DonPachi is dated because it has a slow first stage... and ssseeecooond stage... aaannnnddd thiirrrdd*falls asleep*

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:38 pm

Ed Oscuro wrote:Heh, fun topic over at Retrogaming Roundtable recently.

Me: Space Invaders and Pac-Man are actually pretty overrated
Proud Oldtimer: Why, Space Invaders and Pac-Man were everywhere! They can't possibly be overrated because look how popular they were! If you were around in the 80s you know what I mean.

I thought Space Invaders was the epitome of poorly aged games. The oldtimer could have at least used excuses like nostalgia or historical significance to defend the game.

But it could be fun to use that logic. I hereby declare Macarena to be one of the greatest songs ever.

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:13 pm

I can't think of a single time I have ever heard a person use popularity as an argument for "goodness". It has always been through another person mocking them. So, I doubt that the old-timer said that.

lgb · Post by **lgb** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:22 pm

captpain wrote:
szycag wrote:Don Pachi isn't dated just because it has a slow first stage. Don't be trolly.

I submit Raiden 1 and Blazing Lazers.
DonPachi is dated because it has a slow first stage... and ssseeecooond stage... aaannnnddd thiirrrdd*falls asleep*

Wake up. Keep going.

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:27 pm

Mortificator wrote:
Ed Oscuro wrote:Space Invaders and Pac-Man are actually pretty overrated
Pac-Man is overrated. Ms. Pac-Man? GTFO.

It was Bally Midway who created Ms. Pac-Man and not Namco. Sure, in the end, Namco did end up buying the Ms. Pac-man IP from them. And how about Pac-Man Jr. (with it's so-called new scrolling maze feature) or Pac-Man Plus variant or even Super Pac-Man variant? ^_~

Now Baby Pac-Man was and still is regarded as a strange Pac-Man oddity...why you might ask? Because it is a hodge-podge mess of a combination of both pinball and arcade video portion. You have to play the pinball game portion to earn your "power pills" and the arcade version looks like a very watered down version of Pac-man anyways -- so bland looking. What was Bally Midway thinking when they made this Baby Pac-Man arcade/pinball combo deal? Not to mention that most American arcade operators refused to carry it because of the notorious potential for breakdowns -- if either the pinball or arcade PCB broke down, then it wasn't going to be earning any profit period. Makes perfect sense to me.

I like playing the sped up version of Ms. Pac-Man...that is a fun way to play faster (and die faster as well). ^_~

null1024 · Post by **null1024** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:17 am

lgb wrote:
captpain wrote:
szycag wrote:Don Pachi isn't dated just because it has a slow first stage. Don't be trolly.

I submit Raiden 1 and Blazing Lazers.
DonPachi is dated because it has a slow first stage... and ssseeecooond stage... aaannnnddd thiirrrdd*falls asleep*
Wake up. Keep going.

Third stage isn't bad, but the first two aren't that good.

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:10 am

lgb wrote:
captpain wrote:
szycag wrote:Don Pachi isn't dated just because it has a slow first stage. Don't be trolly.

I submit Raiden 1 and Blazing Lazers.
DonPachi is dated because it has a slow first stage... and ssseeecooond stage... aaannnnddd thiirrrdd*falls asleep*
Wake up. Keep going.

Yeah, I have many times, and it's fun. Just shockingly easy and boring for the first 3.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:22 am

super r-type.... what a turd it is now.

I remember being amazed by the music and forgiving the slow down back in the day.

Udderdude · Post by **Udderdude** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:16 am

Strider77 wrote:super r-type.... what a turd it is now.

I remember being amazed by the music and forgiving the slow down back in the day.

The music is still pretty awesome imo.

Not so sure about the game.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:04 am

Imagefight and X-Multiply. They pale in comparison to R-Type (Mods, please insta-ban anyone who says anything against R-Type, k? Thx.) and Lethal Thunder.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:33 am

r-type is a hori it fales
image fite is hori = instant awesome

there, done

I'd get Image Fight for my FM Towns in addition to x68K but what's the point it's going to be cut-down and shitty. Maybe better for seguhsatun and praystation.

doctorx0079 · Post by **doctorx0079** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:14 pm

Andi wrote:
Enhasa wrote:Xevious
Ban this person.

Just kidding. But, Xevious rocks and plays better than many other crusty old shooters. The point here is this: quality is everlasting. People love their spouses for 50 years, why can't people love a shmup like that?

Xevious certainly plays better than, say,

FUCKING GALAGA.

Can't believe no one mentioned this yet. Most overrated game ever. Sure it was great in 1983 but I am SO sick of it. Same thing over and over. I can hardly even play it one time any more. And this is from a guy who likes Xevious and 1942.

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:08 pm

Galaga has aged pretty well, IMHO. The first few stages drag on, though.

xenepp · Post by **xenepp** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:17 pm

This should be a poll.

1942. Was great back in the day but hold it up to modern shmups and tell me it doesn't smell like a dead ferret in the sock bin.

-Joel

ROBOTRON · Post by **ROBOTRON** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:18 pm

Forgotten Worlds.

I was nuts for this when it came to Sega Genesis...I played it about 3 weeks ago and it seems pretty dated.

Rozyrg · Post by **Rozyrg** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:08 am

Udderdude wrote:
Strider77 wrote:super r-type.... what a turd it is now.

I remember being amazed by the music and forgiving the slow down back in the day.
The music is still pretty awesome imo.

Not so sure about the game.

Yep, the sound in that game was top notch for the SNES (don't forget about the awesome sfx) and it still holds up pretty well I think. No matter how bad the game itself has aged, it's worth popping back in just to fiddle with the sound test awhile.

As much as I still enjoy it, I kinda regret that being my first R-Type. The originals just sounded downright ugly to me when I finally played them.

Vexorg · Post by **Vexorg** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:20 am

To me, the stuff that looks the most dated is the early 3D stuff where everything is covered in blocky low-res textures. (Playstation era hardware mostly). Raystorm seems to be a good example of this in the shmup category, but I'd say the arcade version of Soulcalibur is probably an even better example (especially when compared to how good the Dreamcast version looked in comparison.)

As for other dated looking shmups, I'd have to go with some of these:

-Aero Fighters (for some reason, this game has always felt a bit off to me. I'm not sure if it's the proto-Psikyo graphics or the overall mechanics, but it definitely hasn't held up.)

-Pretty much anything made by Data East

-Ghost Pilots (Makes the weapons in Image Fight look like overpowered in comparison)

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:42 am

Davey wrote:Galaga has aged pretty well, IMHO. The first few stages drag on, though.

Yeah, it's still fun. Of course it's the same thing over and over... look at all the 'big name' classics.

loserdork · Post by **loserdork** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:27 am

I think the shooting stage in Gunstar Heroes kinda sucks. I used to love it...I mean, a horizontal shooting stage in a run and gun action game!? But I do like playing that stage with a friend playing 2nd player because of the "teamwork" involved.

I'm not big on Space Harrier, Defender, or Galaxian these days either. Oh Galaxian, you are ghetto Galaga.

Although it has a special place in my heart, Kolibri sucks.