Gonna check out the upcoming Saw V film?

[lgb]

There is one thing I like about Saw, and that is that it is consistant. There's a new Saw every year, without fail so far in.

I think it was going to be that way from the start.

[E. Randy Dupre]

Not really interested in gore porn. I don't mind exploitation films per se but I find more recent examples a little dull.

Give me some Miike any day.

Miike's film of Audition was like a nice and slow walk in the park and slowly the viewer is subject to unspeakable horrors and unbearable suffering of one man. A man who just wants to get to know a gal but she has other ulterior motives for him. Who do you trust? The quaint looking gal who really is cruel and sadistic...and how did she become that way?
Miike has a way of using twists and spins in his films so that what you may think is going along one way, it really is doing a 180 on you by going in the opposite direction...one that you hadn't anticipated or foresaw. The viewer has, in essence, been taken for one heck of a roller coaster ride. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

She's some kind of vengeance demon, taking him out for his lazy misogyny - that's why the son doesn't get the chop, because he's actually in possesion of the kind of human decency and respect for other people that, in the end, his old man lacks.

Love the film, but it demands a second viewing with yr analysis specs on.

[jpj]

okay, so saw was on tv on saturday night, and saw 2 the following night. i just don't get how the first movie is so good and the 2nd one is so bad... i missed match of the day for this crap and saw 3 is supposed to be worse, and saw 4 even worse than that but i have ended up watching them all now what's the big twist in saw 5 then? that the puppet is the *real* jigsaw? it's a shame really, the first could have been classic, but it's just gonna be tarnished by all these crappy sequels. i guess that's nothing new for the horror genre, and at least this generation of kids have it a bit better than the scream/wes craven era.

(visitor Q ruined my brain )

[MX7]

visitor Q ruined my brain

Heh heh, I hear it can have that effect on people. Though in actuality, it is a very sweet, human and funny film. I showed it to my (hyper squeamish) girlfriend, and she now considers it her favourite film ever

[umi]

No love for such a great series? To each their own I guess. The third one was the worst (I really just found the death scenes to be pretty average). The first was the best, it's just took its time and of course it's always hard to beat the first. I saw Saw 4 today and it was much better than 3, confused me a bit as I hadn't seen the older ones for a while. The contraptions were brilliant.

The best thing about Saw gore is its ingenuity, not the gore itself. for those who can't stand the sight of blood or gore, of course they're not going to get much else out of these movies, or even be able to look past that. Saw 4 was probably the goriest one, but not too cringe-worthy overall. Shit, they're horror movies, they're meant to be fun, and the Saws are *fun,* though deeper than most other "fun" horror franchises. Why stop at 5 I say? :P

Audition was a good movie, I remember half the cinema (granted it was a small cinema) walking out as that memorable end scene started. And all the reviews were even kind enough to warn of a gruesome conclusion... lol.

[Lordstar]

I never saw anyone them. I scream like a little girl at squeemish things.
ask Evilfunkster about me watching hostel at his place one time.

I recall having to switch off the TV and take a breather at the end of audition. I think that was becuase I was so in to the story and everything uravles at the end. That and the paino wired on the guys calf

*shuddres*

[D]

I like Horror movies, but saw is about torture more than horror.
horror is something chasing you and then killing you and the victims trying to escape. The suspense factor.
Saw is about cutting yourself and sick mindgames and torture, it's not scary, a bit discusting, but very sick. I could probably come up with some of these crazy mindgames, torture devices myself.
I'm not sure these movies are particularly good for young viewers. I know they said that about horror movies when I grew up, but somewhere there must be a limit.
Currently the limit still seems to be children getting killed in movies. How long before you see somebody strangle babies on the big screen?
Or torturing children...........
I would like to see another friday the 13th movie.

[moonblood]

I would like to see another friday the 13th movie.

I think a remake or something is in the works

[power UP]

visitor Q ruined my brain

Heh heh, I hear it can have that effect on people. Though in actuality, it is a very sweet, human and funny film. I showed it to my (hyper squeamish) girlfriend, and she now considers it her favourite film ever

Yes, when you can see behind the offensive stuff meaning not getting offended, then you can truly see the movie for what it is for. And it's a great one. Loved the ending, very sweet.


As for SAW. I only watched the first part and though it was pretty good. Haven't seen any of the other movies, but it seems just to be more of the same. Meh.

[Taylor]

I liked the first Saw, but it seems the attraction to the series is them making something gross and people watching it just to say they have. I can't say I care for a film that has a tagline stating it's going to twist so much at the end you might as well not bother trying to work it out :)

If you just want gore porn watch Ichi the Killer...

[jpj]

i found ichi way better than visitor Q, although i had to turn away at the part where he cuts out his toungue, even though it's the fakest special effect in the movie... for extra man points, get the dutch version but while i did enjoy it, i was very close to just turning it off at the beginning where he's written the title in his own semen...

i'm surprised you guys have quite pleasant feelings for visitor Q though. i thought it was your typical "old man worries about the breakdown of the japanese family/social system". i should probably give it another go

[RackGaki]

Happiness of the Katakuris

Sound of Music, Takashi Miike style.

[MX7]

i found ichi way better than visitor Q, although i had to turn away at the part where he cuts out his toungue, even though it's the fakest special effect in the movie... for extra man points, get the dutch version but while i did enjoy it, i was very close to just turning it off at the beginning where he's written the title in his own semen...

i'm surprised you guys have quite pleasant feelings for visitor Q though. i thought it was your typical "old man worries about the breakdown of the japanese family/social system". i should probably give it another go

Visitor Q is essentially an unabashed remake (or perhaps 're imagining' is a less condescending word) of Pier Passolini's Theorem, in which a strange guest brings together a family by having sex with each one of them in turn, bringing them together in the process. In typical Japanese style, Miike (along with screen writer Itaru Era and Frequent collaborator and head of photography Hideo Yamamoto) takes this concept, and takes it to its logical extreme. I don't see Visitor Q as being an attack on Japanese society as such, more an attack on the nuclear family, such as it is. The previously downtrodden and embittered family members end up solving all of their problems, but do so in the most extreme and dramatic way possible. Like all the best films, it's a ridiculously simple concept, amazingly well executed

Regarding Ichi, yes, the UK version is very watered down. The BBFC did an absolute hack job on that one, and completely missed the point of the film. Ichi the Killer frequently juxtaposes 'fun', comedy bloody violence, performed in a stylised manner with brutal, misogynistic violence, portrayed in a frank and unwavering manner. The point of this being, of course, to make the audience question exactly why one form of violence is acceptable in cinema, and why one is not. The conclusion one could derive from Ichi, then, is that violence in film is a tool, a device that has become overly sanitised and accepted (like for example, in the Saw movies). In other words, it could be argued that the 'legendary gore movie' Ichi the Killer is actually critical of violence! Why, what an interesting film! Oh wait. Since the BBFC cut 3 minutes of 'unacceptable' violence out of the film, the tone of the film shifts from being an edgy and uncomfortable film about the nature of violence in film into a 'fun' gore movie. Thus the BBFC have actually created a more morally reprehensible film.

God, I hate censorship

[MX7]

Happiness of the Katakuris

Shoddy remake of a far superior Korean film

fixed

[tommyb]

There is no way in hell I'm seeing Saw V. I didn't see the second, third or fourth ones, either.

The original Saw made soooo much more money then it cost to produce, so they figure "what the hell, why not? Lets keep making the same movie over and over! Stupid teenage girls love this shit!"

And, presto, four more shitty goreporn movies. It makes me mad that How to Lose Friends & Alienate People did so shitty in the theaters, even though that movie was amazing, but Saw V is going to make a killing. Even Blindness probably did shitty in comparison, and is a much, much better movie.

And no, I haven't seen the movie, and yes, I'm judging it.

[RackGaki]

Happiness of the Katakuris

Shoddy remake of a far superior Korean film

fixed

The Quiet Family. I will have to watch this someday.

By and large, I find goreporn to be sick, boring, and unwatchable. My definition is probably somewhat off from other people's, since I found movies like Saw, Oldboy and Ichi the Killer to be acceptable in the context of their story, while Hostel and every subsequent Saw was garbage. Truly unwatchable crap. You can have the most despicable and graphic violence, but if it is shown in good context, I can enjoy the ride.

Hostel was the first film I watched where I asked myself, what's the point of watching this? The only people who could enjoy that are the same people who pleasure themselves while watching Faces of Death.

[spadgy]

Me and some friends watched the first one but kept destroying any semblance of tension by leaning in an whispering 'I'm too old for this shit' whenever Glover made an appearance. Childish but entertaining.

Only way to watch it. I saw my first Saw film the other day, in the form of the first one, and I can't see why it was such a hit. It's dull, unoriginal and totally lacking in atmosphere, and the gory bits are so clichéd and unimaginative that despite their apparent horror they really fail to disturb. It's like something a 16-year-old would come up with if they were told to think of really gruesome things. I was just bored stupid by it.

No Saw V for me... but then I found the Exorcist rather drab, and Texas Chainsaw a little pathetic, but both were spoiled for me by a cinema audience treating them like a comedy...

EDIT: 84 Charlie Mopic - that's a good horror film. It might be dressed up as a war film, but for me that was one scary, disturbing ride. American Psycho too. Not that scary, and funny too, but still horrid as hell. I liked The Bunker too...

[Never_Scurred]

(visitor Q ruined my brain )

try Ken Park.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Me and some friends watched the first one but kept destroying any semblance of tension by leaning in an whispering 'I'm too old for this shit' whenever Glover made an appearance. Childish but entertaining.

Only way to watch it. I saw my first Saw film the other day, in the form of the first one, and I can't see why it was such a hit. It's dull, unoriginal and totally lacking in atmosphere, and the gory bits are so clichéd and unimaginative that despite their apparent horror they really fail to disturb. It's like something a 16-year-old would come up with if they were told to think of really gruesome things. I was just bored stupid by it.

No Saw V for me... but then I found the Exorcist rather drab, and Texas Chainsaw a little pathetic, but both were spoiled for me by a cinema audience treating them like a comedy...

EDIT: 84 Charlie Mopic - that's a good horror film. It might be dressed up as a war film, but for me that was one scary, disturbing ride. American Psycho too. Not that scary, and funny too, but still horrid as hell. I liked The Bunker too...

Granted that Saw V goes back and forth in the various Saw film franchise to explain the collaboration of Jigsaw and company...the real "meat and bones" portion of the film with the current victims and their fates takes place after the events shown in Saw IV. Saw IV does the same thing with going back and forth of past events telling the backstory of how Jigsaw came to be. By watching all the Saw films in chronological order, one will see the "big picture" that Saw V cleverly presents. And yet another Saw sequel, Saw VI will be out just in time for the Halloween 2009 timeline. The Saw film franchise ain't over yet, folks.

Hostel and Hostel II really rachets up the gore factor and content courtesy of KNB EFX Group. Hostel was originally intended to be a single movie unto itself. The director, Eli Roth, decided that by making Hostel II, it would further delve into the world of the mysterious organization of international clientele who pay big bucks to partake in such demented stuff behind closed doors. Of course, clientele can be subject to the same methods bestowed on their victims -- if given the right opportunity and circumstances. A taste of their own medicine if you will. So when the curtain is drawn at the end of Hostel II, the mysterious organization is still up & running along with accepting bids from the highest bidder for the next round of unsuspecting victims. Will Hostel III be up in the works?

The teaser Hostel II movie poster garnered some controversy...I recall seeing it displayed at my local movie theater. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[jpj]

i found ichi way better than visitor Q, although i had to turn away at the part where he cuts out his toungue, even though it's the fakest special effect in the movie... for extra man points, get the dutch version but while i did enjoy it, i was very close to just turning it off at the beginning where he's written the title in his own semen...

i'm surprised you guys have quite pleasant feelings for visitor Q though. i thought it was your typical "old man worries about the breakdown of the japanese family/social system". i should probably give it another go

Visitor Q is essentially an unabashed remake (or perhaps 're imagining' is a less condescending word) of Pier Passolini's Theorem, in which a strange guest brings together a family by having sex with each one of them in turn, bringing them together in the process. In typical Japanese style, Miike (along with screen writer Itaru Era and Frequent collaborator and head of photography Hideo Yamamoto) takes this concept, and takes it to its logical extreme. I don't see Visitor Q as being an attack on Japanese society as such, more an attack on the nuclear family, such as it is. The previously downtrodden and embittered family members end up solving all of their problems, but do so in the most extreme and dramatic way possible. Like all the best films, it's a ridiculously simple concept, amazingly well executed

Regarding Ichi, yes, the UK version is very watered down. The BBFC did an absolute hack job on that one, and completely missed the point of the film. Ichi the Killer frequently juxtaposes 'fun', comedy bloody violence, performed in a stylised manner with brutal, misogynistic violence, portrayed in a frank and unwavering manner. The point of this being, of course, to make the audience question exactly why one form of violence is acceptable in cinema, and why one is not. The conclusion one could derive from Ichi, then, is that violence in film is a tool, a device that has become overly sanitised and accepted (like for example, in the Saw movies). In other words, it could be argued that the 'legendary gore movie' Ichi the Killer is actually critical of violence! Why, what an interesting film! Oh wait. Since the BBFC cut 3 minutes of 'unacceptable' violence out of the film, the tone of the film shifts from being an edgy and uncomfortable film about the nature of violence in film into a 'fun' gore movie. Thus the BBFC have actually created a more morally reprehensible film.

God, I hate censorship

dude, you a film student?

have you seen the ichi manga at all? i thought it was better than the movie to be honest

and i actually have a lot of respect for the bbfc. some cuts may lead to stuff being out of context, but i do appreciate it's not an easy job. and after all the manhunt 2 bollocks, i'm a bit sick of people who think that because they can't play a game where you smash skulls in, they're living in 1980's russia or something

pcefx: ah, that's a bit of a shame that saw 5 is another flashback-fest. and spadgy, i swear you have no taste if you take the gore out, i found it to be a great example of classic theatre denouement. american psycho the movie is nowhere near as bad as the book though i don't know if this is just urban legend, but i heard he wrote it in 24 hours, just staying awake all day and writing

the saw trap i find most disturbing is the hair/scalp thing. that's not nice i think most people would say the surgical stuff. although after watching a lot of the live autopsy shows on late night channel 4 a few years back (with that german dude who looks like a baddie in an indiana jones flick), i can see how fake they are straight away - when you peel back real flesh it's yellow, not red, from thin layers of fat

i watched hostel 2 the other day on da tube, and that didn't do much for me either. the politist way i can put it is those guys need to go back to film school

[spadgy]

spadgy, i swear you have no taste if you take the gore out, i found it to be a great example of classic theatre denouement. american psycho the movie is nowhere near as bad as the book though i don't know if this is just urban legend, but i heard he wrote it in 24 hours, just staying awake all day and writing

I might well have bad taste! Generally my film taste is at odds with others'. I do find with horror films really depend on the context and environment surrounding you when you watch them (more so than other genres), and almost every horror film I’ve seen and not enjoyed, I’ve been with people who’ve wanted to see it as a kind of comedy. Perhaps a lot of people avoid getting scared by taking stuff as comedy. When I saw The Exorcist, it was at a cinema where you could drink and smoke, and everyday cheered the infamously horrid bit and laughed loudly – thus, I found the film to be crap. Frankly. Perhaps in another setting...

And maybe my fascination with violent comics has desensitised my ability to be shocked...

Also, a confession about something which may effect my judgement. First film I ever saw at a cinema? Ghostbusters. I was four. Even the size of the screen when nice things were happening was quite terrifying at that age. And then that bit with the women in the library happened. I leapt up and screamed ‘lets get out of here!’ (a line people still use to mock me!) and ran off. My dad gave chase as I dashed away, to where he found me in floods of tears hiding behind a bin out on the street. It caused sleepless nights for about three or four years. Still haven’t watched that bit since. I literally have to turn away some 24-years later! So, maybe that’s made me less receptive to horror films!

[MX7]

(visitor Q ruined my brain )

try Ken Park.

This is pretty much the only film I don't dare try and get through UK customs Shame, because I really like Clarke and Korine.

[MX7]

and i actually have a lot of respect for the bbfc. some cuts may lead to stuff being out of context, but i do appreciate it's not an easy job. and after all the manhunt 2 bollocks, i'm a bit sick of people who think that because they can't play a game where you smash skulls in, they're living in 1980's russia or something

Yeah, I understand it's a difficult job, and to be frank, there's some extemely nasty stuff in the 3 or so minutes cut out of the film. My biggest problem is that the BBFC's argument regarding such censorship is that it is done to negate the chance of a child or someone impressionable being subjected to such images. This seems to me to indicate a complete lack of faith in the age certificate system, which should, technically prevent such a situation from ever happening. But of course, we all know that slapping an '18' cert on something is only going to make it marginally harder for a child to see it. It's a really tricky situation, and one I can't see being fixed any time soon, without the implementation of a new age certificate, a la the R-18 cert

dude, you a film student?

Not any more

[sjewkestheloon]

I have no respect whatsoever for censorship of fiction. That's right kids, it's fiction. There are also age ratings for a reason.

If a parent lets their 12 year old watch Ichi and the kid becomes disturbed or, heaven forbid, re enacts the violence, then the blame, in my humble opinion, lies with the irresponsible adult.

I find it incredibly entertaining that the American rating system seems mostly unfazed by violence in films but any hint of female sexual pleasure is an instant no-no.

I'd like to think that if I had a child I would be responsible and educating enough to help my child distinguish between reality and fiction.

Some of the most well rounded people that I know (by that I suppose I mean morally complete if you will) enjoy and experience a lot of taboo-ish stuff. They are also the least likely to actually do anything nasty to anyone.

Maybe I'm talking shit.

[jpj]

i understand your points fully, don't get me wrong, but that isn't the only reason for classification or censorship. we also have obscenity laws, and determining what is or isn't obscene is quite difficult to do, but the bbfc do have a pretty straight forward set of guidelines that they follow. for example: you will never ever *ever* see a film like saw where the victims are played by children. i guess it all comes under what you'd call "social responsibility". to give another example: let's say i make a fictional movie about a terrorist movement, and somewhere in the flick, i show a detailed and comprehensive guide on how to make bombs out of household goods. that could end up on the cutting floor as well, for obvious reasons.

the point you make about age-rated material falling into the hands of minors gets played a lot on the videogame front as well. the trouble here being that in the UK, nobody has *ever* been convicted for selling an 18-rated game to a minor. so the law really needs to be enforced more.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I have no respect whatsoever for censorship of fiction. That's right kids, it's fiction. There are also age ratings for a reason.

If a parent lets their 12 year old watch Ichi and the kid becomes disturbed or, heaven forbid, re enacts the violence, then the blame, in my humble opinion, lies with the irresponsible adult.

I find it incredibly entertaining that the American rating system seems mostly unfazed by violence in films but any hint of female sexual pleasure is an instant no-no.

I'd like to think that if I had a child I would be responsible and educating enough to help my child distinguish between reality and fiction.

Some of the most well rounded people that I know (by that I suppose I mean morally complete if you will) enjoy and experience a lot of taboo-ish stuff. They are also the least likely to actually do anything nasty to anyone.

Maybe I'm talking shit.

Yes, the American movie rating system which headed by the MPAA (Motion Picture Association of America) is very strict when handing out their ratings. Some films have gotten the dreaded NC-17 rating when first shown "uncut" to the MPAA film reviewers, it's back to the editing room to cut and trim out the offending content to try to appease to the MPAA board and get the more acceptable "R" rating for nationwide release. Most American movie theater chains will NOT show such NC-17 rated films period. So you can see why for some film directors, there is a lot of going back and forth on a particular film and whether or not it passes the MPAA strict guidelines for it's movie rating system.

The classic Kill Bill Vol. 1 that was released in American movie theaters would've been rated NC-17 if the "black and white" footage of the Crazy 88 gang versus Beatrice was shown in it's entirety in color. To get the more acceptable "R" rating, that infamous bloody fight scene was opted for "b&w" to satisfy the MPAA board. You might recall that the Japanese Region 2 DVD version of Kill Bill Vol. 1 shows the fight scene in full glory regal -- full color whilst the USA Region 1 DVD of the same name still retains the "b&w" fight scene.
Them MPAA folks are a very tough bunch to please...fuck with 'em, and your chances of releasing your big-budget film can be fucked up big time for USA theatrical distribution.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[sjewkestheloon]

i understand your points fully, don't get me wrong, but that isn't the only reason for classification or censorship. we also have obscenity laws, and determining what is or isn't obscene is quite difficult to do, but the bbfc do have a pretty straight forward set of guidelines that they follow. for example: you will never ever *ever* see a film like saw where the victims are played by children. i guess it all comes under what you'd call "social responsibility". to give another example: let's say i make a fictional movie about a terrorist movement, and somewhere in the flick, i show a detailed and comprehensive guide on how to make bombs out of household goods. that could end up on the cutting floor as well, for obvious reasons.

the point you make about age-rated material falling into the hands of minors gets played a lot on the videogame front as well. the trouble here being that in the UK, nobody has *ever* been convicted for selling an 18-rated game to a minor. so the law really needs to be enforced more.

I understand where you are coming from but don't buy the social responsibility thing. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with a film showing in detail how to make a bomb. If someone wants to make a bomb they certainly won't watch a film to find out how. All you need to do is study elemental science and it's quite easy.

Children have died in literature in horrible ways for hundreds of years. It infuriates me that film is treated in a different way to text formats. As a child I used to read graphic horror novels and nobody batted an eyelid. They were most definately not appropriate but no one seemed to really care. If I had seen a flash of tit in a film though, I would have been jumped on. I remember being forced to stop watching a film as a child because they had used the word fuck too many times. Surely if you've heard it once you've heard it a million times? Makes no difference.

Assault on Precinct 13 has the best child killing I've seen. Shot in the face, bam!

As for the computer game thing, I've worked in a game shop for a while and every time I warned a parent of the content of a game and the rating I got told to mind my own fucking business. Ignorant swines would be the first to run the the Daily Mail to blame it on Rockstar.


Edit: I'd love someone to give me a run down of what is 'obscene'. I find the concept amusing. An action can be obscene, but can an expression with no direct harm be obscene? I would love to see some evidence of the consequences of exposure to obscenity.

[jpj]

well, i'm not asking you to agree with the reasoning, but those are the reasons if someone watched my movie, then tried making bombs themselves, and people end up getting hurt or killed in the process, that is hugely irresponsible, on a social level. another example would be a graphic sex scene where an actor or actress over the age of 18 is playing a character under the age 16. i'm sure you catch my drift...

i know what you mean about books and stuff, but i don't (and more importantly: the bbfc don't...) think it has the same impact on an impressionable mind. obviously there are always studies going on about violent imagery and the way it can affect people, but that seems to be the consensus at the moment. i used to read stephen king books when i was 10, and they were pretty nasty. but the two things that really stick in my mind from my childhood were: having nightmares after seeing robocop, and the dude's hand being blown off (i must've been about eight), and being absolutely mystified after watching hardcore porn when i was 5 and we lived in holland. i can only speak from my own experience, but i think moving pictures have a deeper impact. and i think this will be a bit of a challnge for videogames in the future as graphics (and therefore violent images on the screen) become more and more photo-realistic

if you're curious though mate, i'm sure you'll be able to get a mandate for the bbfc's classification rules on the government website. but take into account that these things are not set in stone, and you might be surprised at the miniscule amount of films that receive any cuts at all. the bbfc of today is different to the bbfc of the 80's... and when they do actually revise their policies of what is and what isn't obscene .... it's actually done through the opinions of people just like you or me.

the manhunt 2 debacle really just got on my nerves, specifically around the time rockstar started citing the bbfc as "banning art" or whatever it was they said. the rest of the EU uses the pegi ratings board, which isn't legally enforced, and is more of a guideline. there was nothing to stop rockstar releasing the game in the rest of europe ... other than the fact that the UK constituted about 40% of all ps2 software sales in europe at that point... art indeed

personally, i'm really not that bothered either way, on fictional material. maybe it's because my own imagination usually tends to be darker anyway the media blackout of the faulklends under mrs thatcher - that's the *real* censorship problem..........

[sjewkestheloon]

I'm intrigued, why do you roll eyes at the idea that Manhunt 2 is art? Personally I have no interest in the game but I don't see why people shouldn't be able to make their own minds up. I'm not picking, I'm genuinely interested in your responses

I think people forget that there is also an off button or a way to end any media.

I find your comment about visual works interesting. Books are generally far more effective for me. I've been genuinely disturbed by many novels but I find most ultra violence and sex in visual formats to be titilation.

[jpj]

nah no problem, i should have been more clear
what i meant is that rockstar were accusing the bbfc of banning their artistic work. but the reality is that they were sure to lose a big chunk of sales. i actually don't think games should be considered art, full stop, but contesting the bbfc's decision was purely about shifting units.