If you want CAVE ports region-free...

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:48 pm

honorless wrote: And besides, no region locking would prevent companies from price gouging the fuck out of Australia (and other PAL places, lul) Can't have that.

Haha, check out how much more people in Australia and the UK have to pay for already pricey Adobe software. I also remember an uproar over delay combined with much higher price for Rock Band in these countries. Seriously, what is going on there? I´ve heard that one of the reasons is that "people in Australia have a higher income", but come on, it can´t be THAT much higher.

(Sorry for the OT, by the way.)

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:48 pm

Wow, I had not heard about DJMax Fever, but yeah LOL.

Anyway, was lack of overseas releases for PS2 games really such a huge problem? (It appears to me) a lot of people on this board own Japanese systems. As the price of Japanese X360 continues to drop, just buy an import system. While you wait for system prices to drop in the meantime, just buy up the games before they go out of print.

And for people who want to complain about owning a domestic X360 system already, then maybe that wasn't such a good purchase, was it? If you say there are domestic games that were worthwhile, then you have to ask yourself which games you would rather play, and choose which ones to sacrifice in order to play the others.

Sure, it all comes down to how much you are willing to sacrifice to play a game. For some people it's a drop in the bucket, for others it's having a place to live for the next month. But either way, it's a video game, just accept that it may not be released overseas, and either suck it up and pay the $$$ to play it, or suck it up and do without it.

Apologies in advance if I have offended anyone, but since it looks like overseas release ain't happening, then you guys had better start saving up for importing the game and/or system if you want any hope of playing it. Otherwise, tough nuts. I most likely will not be getting this any time in the near future (if at all), but the quality of my life is not going to crash due to lack of these games.

RackGaki · Post by **RackGaki** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:14 am

@ iatneH

I understand your point completely. Collecting shoot 'em ups, hell just playing shoot 'em ups, can get really expensive really quick. When people on this board pay $700 or more for an arcade cabinet and a thousand or more for a PCB, buying a few imported systems and games is like chump change.

It just occurred to me that many developers may have went to the 360 over the PS3 partially because Sony has chosen a mandatory region-free policy. I would say that Cave is holding out for licensing fees, but since they never have had a game licensed across the pond, I'll just say that they don't give two shits about the overseas market and leave it at that.

Ex-Cyber · Post by **Ex-Cyber** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:00 am

RackGaki wrote:It just occurred to me that many developers may have went to the 360 over the PS3 partially because Sony has chosen a mandatory region-free policy.

I think it's more likely a matter of small companies with small-but-dedicated fan bases combined with the fact that they can basically do 80% of a 360 port by doing a Windows port, or vice-versa. Taito is also popularizing Windows as an arcade platform in the first place...

Observer · Post by **Observer** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:08 am

Ex-Cyber wrote:
RackGaki wrote:It just occurred to me that many developers may have went to the 360 over the PS3 partially because Sony has chosen a mandatory region-free policy.
I think it's more likely a matter of small companies with small-but-dedicated fan bases combined with the fact that they can basically do 80% of a 360 port by doing a Windows port, or vice-versa. Taito is also popularizing Windows as an arcade platform in the first place...

May the divinities hear you!

Although I doubt Cave will ever make a PC port (quote this if Cave eventually makes a PC port), it would be nice to play them there with custom resolutions and crap.

Ketsui perfect port for PC (and not waiting 10 years to get it Mame'd at 20fps or worrying about pirating it) anyone? No more worries about region locking either. A re-release of Ibara, Mushihime (without the limitations of the PS2) and the two Espgaludas in a super mega recontra pack of doom? (yeah, keep dreaming...)

Argh. Maybe if Sega ends up making a ThunderForce VI PC port and we can get Raiden IV follow the same route. You never know... Still I think I'm daydreaming way too much.

orange · Post by **orange** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:31 am

uh ketsui would run fine on mame pgm is already emulated well

dmzach · Post by **dmzach** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:51 am

maybe them not setting them region free can be used to convince the mame team to ignore cave and put their more recent games into mame.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:34 am

dmzach wrote:maybe them not setting them region free can be used to convince the mame team to ignore cave and put their more recent games into mame.

hell no we need to make the games more accurate (unplayable) by adding accurate arcade control (more input lag by adding a layer of abstraction between pc input and game input)

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:01 am

I still don’t understand the advantage of region locking a game that will never get an international release unless it streamlines the JP Microsoft approval process somehow.

The netplay is rather moot, if we buy it and it lags because the server is halfway around the world nobody is going to blame Cave for it. We’re going to suck it up, buy a JP 360 and import it anyway.

Jockel · Post by **Jockel** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:37 am

E. Randy Dupre wrote:Can I just ask, was it the same around here when the PS2 conversions started appearing? Was there a new thread or post every day trying to get Cave/Taito/whoever to release these things in the US and Europe, or were people more prepared to accept that they'd have to find some way of playing the imports?

I think that was another story. There are ways to play different region games on your PS2. On the Xbox360 however, there are not.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:49 am

Twiddle wrote: hell no we need to make the games more accurate (unplayable) by adding accurate arcade control (more input lag by adding a layer of abstraction between pc input and game input)

It also seems to me like the MAME team hates savestates. These "anonymous timers" are ruining my nice level-select system! "Warning: Savestates are not officially supported for this game." Well, I think the WHOLE GAME is not "officially supported" for emulation, isn´t it?

But eh, free arcades games, who am I to complain...

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:03 am

Playability doesn't score points with gaming journalists in general, sorry.

OmniGLH · Post by **OmniGLH** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:30 pm

Jockel wrote:
E. Randy Dupre wrote:Can I just ask, was it the same around here when the PS2 conversions started appearing? Was there a new thread or post every day trying to get Cave/Taito/whoever to release these things in the US and Europe, or were people more prepared to accept that they'd have to find some way of playing the imports?
I think that was another story. There are ways to play different region games on your PS2. On the Xbox360 however, there are not.

This is very well the case.

It's not that difficult in fact its kind simple to play Japanese games on the PS2.

The Xbox 360 has 0 way to play games of another region. The only alternative is to BUY a secondu console, of which has reputation of being poorly built and has very high percentage rate of failure.

I find it rather odd however that in a forum where its membership are willing to spend thousands of $,€,&£ on one games board but cannot think of getting a console, an arcade stick, and a few games :confusedshrug:

Bootaaay · Post by **Bootaaay** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:46 pm

Don't any of the various mod-chips available for the 360 allow imports to be played? That sounds like the most cost-effective solution to me.

Jockel · Post by **Jockel** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:49 pm

nope. there's only the infectus, which allows to swap the firmware for a japanese one. but that's next to impossible for a normal user.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:04 pm

Twiddle wrote:
dmzach wrote:maybe them not setting them region free can be used to convince the mame team to ignore cave and put their more recent games into mame.
hell no we need to make the games more accurate (unplayable) by adding accurate arcade control (more input lag by adding a layer of abstraction between pc input and game input)

We (you two) need to use punctuation.

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:08 pm

OmniGLH wrote:The only alternative is to BUY a secondu console

Or a firstu console for anyone who didn't rush out and buy a domestic system. How badly do you want to play it? It still ultimately comes to how much money you are willing to spend and what you are willing to sacrifice to raise the funds.

Post by **system11** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:42 am

bloodflowers wrote:I sent him a mail too.

If there's any kind of interesting reply, I'll post it here.

ASADA wrote:We have received numerous e-mails concerning network play region concerns. We are replying to you because we'd like Shmups Web to inform our international fans on our behalf. We are very happy to know that we have fans even outside of Japan.

Currently we are considering restricting the network play region of Deathsmiles to Japan only, but this is not yet set in stone.

The problem is with our own network limitations. We would like to localize Deathsmiles for foreign markets, however, we do not have any relationships with foreign publishers at the moment and are currently researching our options.

We are extremely grateful that we have fans even in countries far away from Japan.

Thx

CAVE CO., LTD.

ASADA

I don't know if it's a deliberate mis-interpretation of my question (I had very specifically asked if the disc would be region free), or a mistake, or whether the only way to region the network is to region the disc. At any rate, it was nice of him to reply, so we'll just have to hold tight and hope.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:49 am

Yeah, it sounds like a warm reply, even if slightly misleading.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:58 am

you guys are acting if most USA titles are locked, they are NOT locked MOST of the time. You can totally get away with just a japanese console. The only 2 US games I ran into that were locked were Dark Sector and Phantasy Star Universe. I'm sure there are a few others but you can just get the asian versions with english if needed.

Most are not locked or have a asian release, honestly there is no reason to own a USA 360 b/c you a totally limited the most with it. You can play whatever you want with a Japanese console.

I own ALOT of US titles and play them on my import system all the time.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:25 am

Strider77 wrote:you guys are acting if most USA titles are locked, they are NOT locked MOST of the time. You can totally get away with just a japanese console.

This is totally a workaround instead of totally being a solution to the actual problem. Totally.

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:01 pm

bloodflowers wrote:
bloodflowers wrote:I sent him a mail too.

If there's any kind of interesting reply, I'll post it here.

ASADA wrote:We have received numerous e-mails concerning network play region concerns. We are replying to you because we'd like Shmups Web to inform our international fans on our behalf. We are very happy to know that we have fans even outside of Japan.

Currently we are considering restricting the network play region of Deathsmiles to Japan only, but this is not yet set in stone.

The problem is with our own network limitations. We would like to localize Deathsmiles for foreign markets, however, we do not have any relationships with foreign publishers at the moment and are currently researching our options.

We are extremely grateful that we have fans even in countries far away from Japan.

Thx

CAVE CO., LTD.

ASADA
I don't know if it's a deliberate mis-interpretation of my question (I had very specifically asked if the disc would be region free), or a mistake, or whether the only way to region the network is to region the disc. At any rate, it was nice of him to reply, so we'll just have to hold tight and hope.

So who's going to forward this response along with Asada's e-mail to: Aksys Games, Atlus, UFO Interactive, Ubi Soft.. etc, etc?

dmzach · Post by **dmzach** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:11 pm

I think I would be more willing to import a japanese 36 if they were so prone to breaking.

If you had a japanese console and had to get it repaired by microsoft would they send you a japanese region console?

Lordstar · Post by **Lordstar** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:28 pm

dmzach wrote:I think I would be more willing to import a japanese 36 if they were so prone to breaking.

If you had a japanese console and had to get it repaired by microsoft would they send you a japanese region console?

well they repair the console. so yeah. not a new console (on rare ocasions)

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:00 pm

This is totally a workaround instead of totally being a solution to the actual problem. Totally.

what are you talking about? in what way? what's the problem then?

US titles aren't locked hardly ever....

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:11 pm

Strider77 wrote:what are you talking about? in what way? what's the problem then?

The problem: people are unable to play games of a foreign region on their domestic systems. Importing consoles from Japan is not a solution; it's a workaround, because people are still unable to play games of a foreign region on their domestic systems.

In short, people shouldn't have (arbitrary restriction) to import consoles from overseas, which is a lot of unneeded hassle (time resources, risks) and a considerable increase in cost of purchase (due to redundant links in distribution chains). Something as simple as not putting the region lock in, which at least doesn't increase the amount of work or other paid activities, solves the problem perfectly.

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:12 pm

What is the official reason for even having region locks in the first place? Who is responsible for them, and what purpose are they supposed to serve?

I obviously don't know much about this, but it strikes me as though whoever is selling the discs would stand to make more money if region locks simply didn't exist, and couldn't lose money...

dmzach · Post by **dmzach** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:33 pm

Lordstar wrote:
dmzach wrote:I think I would be more willing to import a japanese 36 if they were so prone to breaking.

If you had a japanese console and had to get it repaired by microsoft would they send you a japanese region console?
well they repair the console. so yeah. not a new console (on rare ocasions)

I had aways assumed they send you a compleatly different coneole when you send it in. It seems like that would be faster for microsoft to do it that way isated of wroking on untis then sending them out. The just get your broken console, and give you some one esel refurbed console.

If i go to my brothers I can compaire the unit number of his xbox to the one that he first had. OVer time it has broken 3 different times.

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:44 pm

dmzach wrote: I had aways assumed they send you a compleatly different coneole when you send it in. It seems like that would be faster for microsoft to do it that way isated of wroking on untis then sending them out. The just get your broken console, and give you some one esel refurbed console.

If i go to my brothers I can compaire the unit number of his xbox to the one that he first had. OVer time it has broken 3 different times.

Christ man, reread your posts... firefox has a built in spellchecker you know

CStarFlare · Post by **CStarFlare** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:18 pm

What is the official reason for even having region locks in the first place? Who is responsible for them, and what purpose are they supposed to serve?

IIRC for the 360 it's up to the publisher, though MS might "suggest" it for certain titles.

A big part of the reason people still use region locks is because they're hopeful that a foreign publisher will buy the rights to publish the game in other countries. If everyone everywhere can play the game already, it removes some of the incentive to publish the game in the foreign market. For some titles it's not a big threat, because the language barrier makes imported versions almost worthless to the majority of the population.

But in the case of Cave games, there's a fairly small userbase and little to no language barrier to deal with - making imports easy for these titles would kill any interest a foreign publisher has of picking it up. And while it seems like Cave would do well to just take the extra 500 or so sales (I'm pulling numbers out of my ass sorry) they'd get from a region-free release, if they can get a publisher to pay even $20k for the rights they'd make a similar amount of money with almost no additional cost. The $20k is just an example - I'm sure Cave is asking for a lot more, but it gives you the idea of how a small licensing fee can offset a few additional sales pretty quick.

I don't know that Cave really needs to be super concerned about network play being effected by people from other countries since I don't think multiplayer is really a selling point for any shmup. And in any case, regardless of a region lock people outside of Japan will play it. Assuming it's not a bullshit excuse, maybe it's a good sign that they're trying not to settle for anything less than perfect.

It's a bit disappointing with the current generation, because region free is a possibility this time around. Still, as someone who paid $250 for a JPS2 (twice, lol console life concerns) I can't say that it's a deal breaker for me.