Need racing game recommendations

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raiden
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Post by raiden »

I don't see why Burnout 3 shouldn't be considered a racing game, unless rubber-band AI (of which Mario Kart and F-Zero are guilty of as well) is the main exclusion.. I mean, there is quite a bit more to the burnout series than the crash mode (though that crash mode is pretty damn fun)
the point of a racing game is trying to go fast. If "trying" is supposed to have a meaning, there must be obstacles which make going fast a hard thing to do. These obstacles have to slow the car down in some way, otherwise it´s unnecessary to dodge them or even steer. Now, in Burnout 3 crashing into obstacles charges a bar which makes you go faster than you can without crashing into obstacles. So the goal becomes hitting obstacles. This could be a challenge if obstacles were rare, as in racing through an open field with other cars that try to escape you. On a regular course full of traffic and boundaries colliding with raises your boost bar, THERE IS NO CHALLENGE.
The first Burnout game had a concept similar to Psyvariar, although being far too easy. Imagine the shield time in Psyvariar just a little longer, the bar charging just a little quicker. You wouldn´t even have to move the ship, because every bullet approaching the ship would create the shield, pass without harming the ship, giving score in the process. A completely wasted case of game design, and in racing form this is called Burnout.
You could also try playing RaidenDX on easiest difficulty where enemies don´t shoot at all, that´s about as meaningful.
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roushimsx
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Post by roushimsx »

raiden wrote:Now, in Burnout 3 crashing into obstacles charges a bar which makes you go faster than you can without crashing into obstacles. So the goal becomes hitting obstacles.
Interesting, I was under the impression that Burnout 3's Burn Meter operated identical to Burnout and Burnout 2's Burn Meter. I loved racking up massive combos with that in Point of Impact and seeing how long I could keep it going (similar to doing massive looping combos in Nights).

Didn't much care for the first Burnout game, though. Looks like Point of Impact is the highpoint of the series (though the AI still bites in that one)
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Ganelon
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Post by Ganelon »

If you're going for the Ridge Racer series, I recommend playing them in this order (sans the handhelds):

R4 (by far the easiest to handle)
RRR (rear view mirror helps)
RR
RR64 (multiple cars clog your way, which is why RR games never designed car positioning this way before or afterwards)
RRV (weird drifting, impossible to win by normal turns)
Rage (manual transmission, high speed, and drifting all must be mastered to get through all the circuits)
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roushimsx
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Post by roushimsx »

R4 has been my least favorite of the series since it came out, mainly because it was just so damned easy... it's seriously on par with Aladdin on SNES when it comes to difficulty, in my opinion. Ridge Racer V comes in a nice second.

Played through RR64 last year and it was semi-enjoyable, but I didn't have as much fun with it as I did with Rage Racer back when it came out (haven't played it in forever, so nostalgia may be getting the better of me).

Now Rave Racer, on the other hand... that's my favorite of the series. I found an arcade in Bangkok that was charging 5baht per play (roughly 15 cents or so) and I spent hours there while my wife was at work (it didn't help that they also had a Scud Race machine..those devious bastards). Thank god Rave Racer is playable via Vivanono so that everyone inclined to do so can experience its badassity (make sure you get an analog controller first, though!)
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Ganelon
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Post by Ganelon »

Yeah, R4 is easy, an excellent introduction to arcade racers IMO. However, it still lets you race competitively since attaining record times requires MT drift cars.

Meanwhile, getting a top time in Rage Racer is very tough for racing newbies. Using the throttling speed of the devil cars, it's hard to control, much less make turns and shift gears. It starts off easy but has a nice learning curve that unfortunately doesn't prepare you for how to deal with the last circuit of rival devil cars.

RRV is certainly easy to control but I figure the poor turning radius (less than any other arcade racer I've ever played) might feel a little awkward since even 45 degree turns are difficult to pass without drifting.

I've actually never played the real Rave Racer since no arcade around me had it.
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Vexorg
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Post by Vexorg »

Rallisport Challenge 2 is definitely a game to check out, and don't miss PGR2 if you don't have it yet (great game, but a bit unforgiving in its difficulty.) I thought Burnout 3 was OK, not great, and these days play it mostly for the party crash mode. Even so, it'll be the last EA game I ever buy, owing to the NFL exclusive contract.

Midtown Madness 3 is another good (and cheap) one to try out, although it's less a racing game than a "run around and drive like a madman, then dodge the cops" game.
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Stormowl
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Post by Stormowl »

raiden wrote:Now, in Burnout 3 crashing into obstacles charges a bar which makes you go faster than you can without crashing into obstacles. So the goal becomes hitting obstacles.
wrong. the key to burnout 3 is to drive as dangerously as possible without crashing. if you've done any of the races in burnout 3, you'll know that crashing into an obstacle or another car does 2 things:

1. knocks out your boost meter
2. you're pretty much fuxxed for 1st place.

the key is to bump and take out other racers or come close to hitting civilian cars or obstacles, and come through unscathed.
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Shatterhand
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Post by Shatterhand »

I didn't read any of the posts, I'll just post what I consider to be my fav racers

Destruction Derby 2 - A little hard to learn to play, and a little too easy to master,but still I find to be one of the finest RACING games ever. Forget all the shit abou "destruction", play it on Stock Race mode, and you have a fabulous racing game that's most playable than most of racing games around.

Street Racer - The SATURN version. It's the best Mario Kart alike game ever IMO. A little too cheap sometimes, but what Mario Kart wannabe isn't? :D

Colin McRae Rally 2.0 - I never played the newer games, so I can't compare. But for a "serious" racing game, that's my fav so far. It beats the hell out of Gran Turismo easily.

Road Rash 32 - The first 32 bits version of it. Great, great underrated stuff.

And IMO, the best arcade race games STILL are Daytona USA and Sega Rally too... so I think there's nothing wrong with you really :D
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Stormwatch
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Post by Stormwatch »

According to developer Melbourne House, Test Drive Le Mans is the game that squeezes the most polygons out of the Dreamcast. Yes, it looks great, but above all it is a lot of fun.

Another fine yet underrated Dreamcast game I must suggest is Demolition Racer: No Exit, which is as explosive as a racing game gets.

And of course... Daytona USA. Enough said.
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raiden
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Post by raiden »

and don't miss PGR2 if you don't have it yet (great game, but a bit unforgiving in its difficulty.)
eh? For PGR1, I´d have easily agreed, but PGR2 gives you the option of racing all games on bronze difficulty to get through without much effort. You won´t get many cars that way, making you a nuisance to other players when playing online, but once you are playing online, you´ll learn so much the other difficulties get manageable, too. Ok, personally, I stopped with gold medals because the CPU drivers start to act as a team against you on platinum, but I know a few people who cleared platinum, too.
wrong. the key to burnout 3 is to drive as dangerously as possible without crashing. if you've done any of the races in burnout 3, you'll know that crashing into an obstacle or another car does 2 things:
1. knocks out your boost meter
2. you're pretty much fuxxed for 1st place.
the key is to bump and take out other racers or come close to hitting civilian cars or obstacles, and come through unscathed.
call it bumping or crashing, essentially you don´t have to control your car. The physics of slamming an opponent into the track boundary is present in any racing game, because it´s present in real racing as well. It gives the aggressive driver an advantage already, no need to emphasize this with a boost bar which eliminates the opponent´s chances of catching up again. Racing games are intense when cars are in close proximity, not when your opponents are half a lap behind you.
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system11
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Post by system11 »

Stormowl wrote: wrong. the key to burnout 3 is to drive as dangerously as possible without crashing. if you've done any of the races in burnout 3, you'll know that crashing into an obstacle or another car does 2 things:

1. knocks out your boost meter
2. you're pretty much fuxxed for 1st place.

the key is to bump and take out other racers or come close to hitting civilian cars or obstacles, and come through unscathed.
The key to beating Burnout 3 is to get the fastest thing you possibly can, and drive around the edge of the map scraping against the side walls, praying that you don't clip something as the AI cars will overtake you in a millisecond and then be uncatchable by the end of the race, as the rubber banding only works one way.

Terrible game. The graphics were very good, but that's it. If you want real street racing, go for Midnight Club games, the tracks are a mixture of drags, twisty labyrinths and rollercoasters, driver skill will get you much further than luck too. Shame about the frame update though, in the latest one - online is better however.
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BIG
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Post by BIG »

Ridge Racer PSP.
Wipe-Out Pure PSP.
Initial D Series PS2.
Outrun 2 Xbox.
Burn-Out 3 X-box.

B-
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Post by LoneSage »

Man, I sure do have some great memories playing F-Zero and F-Zero X...easily, both of them in the Top 10 Racing Games of All Time. GX is great, but not as great as X if you ask me.

Never was much of a Mario Kart man, but MK64 was quite fun.

Ridge Racer 4 is awesome, showcasing some of the best graphics, music and arcade-y racing a gameon the PS1 has to offer. I have the limited edition version that came in the box with the JogCon, anyone have a clue as to what print run that got?

I hate the Gran Turismo series, incredibly boring IMO. I do have respect for it, though, for being so damned immaculate in every sense of the word for its genre.
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incognoscente
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Post by incognoscente »

15000 pieces in the US.
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Neon
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Post by Neon »

Thanks, I'll look in to these...

Is sega touring car on saturn worth checking out? It's pretty cheap, probably will anyways...just thought I'd ask :P
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Post by MovingTarget »

I remember watching a demo of that game ^^^ over and over again thinking it was amazing and how this could be real :D Dunno how it would play by todays standards.
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raiden
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Post by raiden »

the Yakumo RetroCore series has Sega Touring Car featured in one episode, the game is shown for about 5 minutes in that one.
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Vexorg
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Post by Vexorg »

raiden wrote:
and don't miss PGR2 if you don't have it yet (great game, but a bit unforgiving in its difficulty.)
eh? For PGR1, I´d have easily agreed, but PGR2 gives you the option of racing all games on bronze difficulty to get through without much effort. You won´t get many cars that way, making you a nuisance to other players when playing online, but once you are playing online, you´ll learn so much the other difficulties get manageable, too. Ok, personally, I stopped with gold medals because the CPU drivers start to act as a team against you on platinum, but I know a few people who cleared platinum, too.
My brother managed to clear everything in PGR2 on silver difficulty, although that came with repeating some stuff (mostly the speed trap challenges) literally hundreds of times in order to beat it. Of course, he also took the approach of test driving all the cars for any given series, then buying only the one that was the fastest and ignoring the rest. I've not played PGR2 much, but I did not get far in it. The reason I say it's unforgiving is that the AI simply does not make mistakes, meaning that if you make a mistake, you might as well restart because by the time you recover the AI cars will be five seconds ahead and you won't be able to catch up.
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roushimsx
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Post by roushimsx »

Neon wrote:Is sega touring car on saturn worth checking out? It's pretty cheap, probably will anyways...just thought I'd ask :P
It wasn't that great of a port, but if you can find it for ~$5-$10 then I don't see a reason to pass on it. The main problem was the frame rate.
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sffan
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Post by sffan »

Stormowl wrote:until you've played burnout 3, you haven't really played anything at all.
I loved Burnout 1 & 2, but when Burnout 3 came out I rented it and it just seemed like Burnout 2 with a bad soundtrack. The action didn't seem as fun either. I didn't give it much of a chance because of these first impressions.
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Post by Diabollokus »

I was playing touring car today good ole saturn nostalgia day,

Its still bloody fast! er yeah that frame rate is kinda choppy road warps a bit and pop up makes knowing where your steering tough, music feckin rocks rough, buy it for a music cd any day.
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LoneSage
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Post by LoneSage »

incognoscente wrote:15000 pieces in the US.
Awesome, thanks.
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Shatterhand
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Post by Shatterhand »

I don't dig Sega Touring Car all that much, not even in the arcades...

LoneSage, it was great you reminded me that. F-Zero X is just AWESOME stuff too :D
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Turrican
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Post by Turrican »

roushimsx wrote:Never much cared for the Saturn port of Wipeout so I never tried 2097 on Saturn...the Playstation version was good, but neither Wipeout nor Wipeout 2097 hold a candle to the badassity of Wipeout 3. Wipeout 3 is pure futuristic racing perfection, and one of my favorite racing games ever.
Kind soul!! So I'm not the only one to recognize Wip3out excellence!

But, if there is one Wipeout a lot better than Wip3out is... Wipeout 3 Special Edition!

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If you haven't got this, go get it!
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Ganelon
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Post by Ganelon »

Meh, I would've gotten it considering I got all the other Wipeouts (except the PSP one) and heard this revision was the best one ever but it never came out in the US. :cry:

I loved Wipeout 3's Xpander Edit by DJ Sasha, one of the best anthem trance tunes ever IMO.
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Turrican
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Post by Turrican »

Maybe you could consider the purchase on ebay, if your psone is modded / can play PAL games.

Wipeout 3 SE is more than double in size compared to Wip3out. It has all the content of 3 (8 tracks) plus eight new tracks that are reworked versions of the best tracks found in Wipeout & W XL/2097. And some more prototypes tracks too.

Quite simply it's the biggest and best yet. I hope Pure will be great too!
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Ganelon
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Post by Ganelon »

I can play imports but do I need a special TV to play PAL games? I've considered swiping it on Ebay since it goes for pretty cheap and I'm a huge Wipeout fan but I've never tried a PAL game before due to my dislike of having an incorrect refresh rate.
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Turrican
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Post by Turrican »

Hm, good question. My tv set (PAL of course) is multistandard, so I can play NTSC games as well.

But maybe it shouldn't matter, as I got a special scart when I modded my Psx. So maybe it's the scart that adjust the signal.

I'm at a loss, really :oops:

Come on, anyone from US that bought a PAL game is willing to help Ganelon?
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Shatterhand
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Post by Shatterhand »

you need a TV that can display PAL correctly.

My 20' TV can't, so most of my PAL games do not work on this tv, the refresh rate is wrong, and the colors are all wrong too (Funny, it's NOT black&white, it's actually a weird tone of green)

My 29' TV makes PAL games work wonderfully.

Now, I believe there is some kind of adaptor to make PAL games run in NTSC tvs.

What's most funny is that my Strikers 1945 II is European, but it works in my NTSC screen... bizarre.
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Ganelon
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Post by Ganelon »

Ahh, no thanks then. I like Wipeout but not enough to get a TV just for it.
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