Best looking 2D shmup?

UnscathedFlyingObject · Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:14 am

I think it's cute when the sprites rotate in Gradius V. But hey, if you guys don't want that, Gradius Gaiden is great looking.

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:31 am

Battle Garegga: the visuals and colors may be gritty, but the detail and care that 8ing put into drawing those sprites is amazing.

For more modern shooters: Radiant Silvergun. Treasure somehow seemlessly (IMHO anyways) melded crisp 2D elements with low level 1st gen 3D modeling.

EDIT: I should say, oth of the above games are triumphs on the Saturn for using its hardware. Garegga for a wonderfully tight arcade port and Radiant for obvious reasons.

visuatrox · Post by **visuatrox** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:09 am

Well Caves games are neat, and Blazing Star on the NeoGeo looks pretty too..

But if only taking pure pixelart games into consideration, then Agony on the Amiga. The backgrounds are just amazing, especially when taking into consideration the limited amount of system resources it runs on.

tehkao · Post by **tehkao** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:15 am

Not to nitpick, but I don't think Radiant Silvergun is 2D either...

Maybe some mod should fix the title topic to prevent any more mass confusion?

Skyline · Post by **Skyline** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:01 am

Well Mushihimesama for starters just looks gorgeous.

Pulstar and Blazing Star just amazed me, as they was running on the same hardware that crap like Legend of Success Joe was on.

Mars Matrix looks quite nice as well, with enemies that are very well-animated (when they ARE animated

)

Super Aleste on the SFC is a wonderful piece of software. Nice use of Mode-7, complete with virtually no slowdown whatsoever.

And those who doubt how good Guwange looks, just kill the first boss. Beeyootiful.

Would have included Soukyugurentai, but there are some 3D elements in it, so it was ommited for the sake of argument. Although with all the talk about how "nifty" XIISTAG's visuals are in various reviews, Souky pisses all over it.

jp · Post by jp » Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:03 am

Diabollokus wrote:
How does hyper duels graphics contest, i mean the saturn enhanced ones not the mame job.?

Better than the Thunder Force games but not as good as Salamander 2.

uwfan · Post by **uwfan** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:46 am

1. Guwange.
2. Ikaruga

Skyline · Post by **Skyline** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:10 am

uwfan wrote:1. Guwange.
2. Ikaruga

Good list, too bad Ikaruga isn't 2D. o_o

tehkao · Post by **tehkao** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:37 am

Would have included Soukyugurentai, but there are some 3D elements in it,

I was thinking about Souky too, and I think the use of 3D polygons in the game is so minimal that it can probably be called a "2D shmup", just as Mars Matrix can. Most of the enemies in Souky are just rotating/scaling pre-rendered sprites to make them look 3D-ish. Only some of the backgrounds, like the bridges in stage 1, are true 3D objects.

It's not like R-Type Delta where everything are real solid 3D polygons.

dczx · Post by **dczx** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:06 am

this might seem silly to post an old Amiga shmup, but I thought disposable hero had some really beautiful psygnosis-amiga-euro-core bubble canopy style artwork... lots of glass and metal and things.

Tony Gradius · Post by **Tony Gradius** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 9:46 am

Raiden II is very impressive. Loads of animated shrapnel. Anyway, this cannot be answered, really. To be objective, I should choose a high res PC shmup like T-Zwei.

SheSaidDutch · Post by **SheSaidDutch** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 9:48 am

16-bit wise I would say ThunderForce IV

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:00 am

Strikers 1 and 2, conceptually, not technically of course.

World War 2 era aircraft firing a shitload of lasers at blimps that transform into giant mechs...you can't top that shit.

adam76 · Post by **adam76** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:30 am

Thunder Force 3 and 4 on the MD are still two of the best looking shooters about IMO. I also really like Musha Aleste with its melding of mecha-type enemies with a kind of feudal Japan theme.

Soldier Blade is fantastically detailed for an 8-bit game and the first 2 R-Types are both very HR Giger-ish in their conception.

Layer Section has some stunning levels(i love level 2 when you pass over the planet), and a doff of the cap would also have to go to both Battle Garegga and Salamander 2 on the saturn.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:52 am

In terms of pure visual aesthetics, it should go something like this:

1. Xevious
2. Defender
3. Salamander
4. R-Type II
5. Detana! Twinbee

I don't see how more recent titles like Cave stuff do get so many points in this regard. I can understand DDP gameplay's charm, but their visuals are so derivative. I guess Raiden can claim to be one of the last series to have a classic distinguished look.

pablo · Post by **pablo** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:20 pm

R-type Dx for the gameboy. Somehow I just love R-type graphics in general.

SheSaidDutch · Post by **SheSaidDutch** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:23 pm

Xexex(played on Mame) made by Konami, The backgrounds are awesome, esp stage 3(Salamander type stage) and 4 (vector based) lovely

straight · Post by **straight** » Sun May 01, 2005 9:21 am

ESP Ra. De. is my favorite.

I wouldn't argue that Mahou Daisakusen is the "best," but it's one of my favorites. I love all the animated details - the people cheering you on, the turtle castles. Dimahoo is prettier and more detailed, but I like the artwork in Mahou better for some reason.

I also love vector-style graphics. I think Tac/Scan is really neat looking. And I like the looks of Warning Forever, rRootage, and Tumiki Fighters.

I think Sengoku Blade as my favorite Psikyo artwork, although I love all that shiny gold in the Strikers games. There's just something addictive about trying to grab the gold at it's shiniest. (Although speaking of addictive shiny stuff, I don't think anything beats sucking up a huge load of diamonds in Progear. Progear's got some great artwork too.)

Also In The Hunt.

BIG · Post by **BIG** » Sun May 01, 2005 4:54 pm

Sprite-based:

Guwange
Dragon Blaze
Sengoku Blade
Ketsui
Pro-Gear no Arashi
19XX
Tatsujin Oh
Cyvern: The Dragon Weapons

Polygon-based:

Gradius V
R-Type Final
Zero Gunner 2
Ikaruga
Border Down

B-

Ord · Post by **Ord** » Sun May 01, 2005 5:20 pm

Personally it would be Progear, Guwange, Battle Garegga, Espgaluda for the sprites and Ikaruga and Gradius V for the polygons. The design and art style for Ikaruga alone really is special.

visuatrox · Post by **visuatrox** » Sun May 01, 2005 6:12 pm

dczx wrote:this might seem silly to post an old Amiga shmup, but I thought disposable hero had some really beautiful psygnosis-amiga-euro-core bubble canopy style artwork... lots of glass and metal and things.

I really like the artwork too in disposable hero Especially the second level and the waterworld

parodius · Post by **parodius** » Sun May 01, 2005 7:01 pm

A lot of modern 2D shmups have pre-rendered graphics (sprites/layouts) as well as hand-drawn ones.
It's sometimes difficult to distinguish between the two, which is a good thing because it means that the graphics are coherent, the pixel-art is usually excellent in this case, and the pre-rendered ones are often re-worked by hand (anti-aliased, etc).

Cave is especially good at this. Guwange seems to be their first game where they used some pre-rendered graphics. They may have used them in ESP Ra.De. but it's hard to tell.
Psikyo also did extremely well in Dragon Blaze.

On the other hand I found that Aicom/Yumekobo games (Pulstar/Blazing Star/Prehistoric Isle 2) are excellent games but look very ugly...

Anyway in no particular order here's my list of best looking 2D shmups :
Raiden Fighters series (love the details, transparencies and use of the colour palette)
In The Hunt (excellent metal-slug-ish grainy pixel art)
Sengoku Blade
DoDonpachi
ESP Ra.De.
Rayforce
Dragon Blaze
Axelay (horizontal stages)
Cyvern (Dragon Saber meets Raiden Fighters...)

uwfan · Post by **uwfan** » Sun May 01, 2005 8:08 pm

Turrican wrote:In terms of pure visual aesthetics, it should go something like this:

1. Xevious

er.....ok.

The Bullet Dodger · Post by **The Bullet Dodger** » Sun May 01, 2005 8:23 pm

Shit!

I forgot about Pulstar!

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Sun May 01, 2005 11:56 pm

Sprite-based:
=========

1945 Strikers II
Agony
Axelay
Area 88
Carrier Airwing
Cyvern: The Dragon Weapons
Cotton Boomerang
Darius Twin
Darius Gaiden
Disposable Hero
Dragon Blaze
Esp.Rade
Gaiares
Gradius III
Gradius Gaiden
Guwange
Gunbird II
Gynoug
In The Hunt
SDF Macross
Project X (AMIGA)
Project X-2 (PS-1)
Pro-Gear no Arashi
Pulstar
R-Type II
R-Type Leo
Raiden II
Raiden Fighters Jet
RayForce
Sexy Parodius
Thunder Force III
Twin Cobra II
Varth
Wyvern Wings

Polygon-based:
===========

Border Down
Gradius V
Ikaruga
R-Type Final
Radiant Silvergun
RayCrisis
RayStorm
Shikigami No Shiro 2
Thunder Force V

MSZ · Post by **MSZ** » Mon May 02, 2005 3:43 am

2D = zero polygon imo.

19XX
Gradius Gaiden
Salamander 2
Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius
Zanac Neo
Striker 1999
Giga Wing

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Mon May 02, 2005 2:39 pm

uwfan wrote:
Turrican wrote:In terms of pure visual aesthetics, it should go something like this:

1. Xevious

er.....ok.

The key of old game triumph in aesthetics is minimalism. I was not a designers' will but often dictated by the hardware limitations. But regardless of the reason, few items and shapes helped to create something very pleasing to the eye.

I'm sure many of you have heard the assumption that "the 3D graphics tend to age quicker and get worse than 2D ones". There's some truth in that, but it is not just a polygon fault.
I think that the more complex the visual gets (crowded with items and such) the faster it grows old.

Take Defender, for example. Immediately recognizable and a very distinguished look. Simple and essential. Take the geometric forms of many weird structures the Solvalou sees below on the ground.

The next time a "1945" (as "generic WWII themed", not necessarily Psikyo ) game is released, it adds more explosions, more cannons, more tiny tanks, more detail. It seems the most gorgeous thing in the universe, but only to be replaced by its sequel next year. Fans themselves are refusing that kind of "quantity" logic, when they find in Raiden II/DX the apex of that kind of visuals.

P.S. of course, this does not mean that a complex, intricately carved graphic style is wrong. In fact I put R-Type II there as an example of extremely detailed graphic that still manages to symbolize the techno-organic style perfectly.

Recap · Post by **Recap** » Mon May 02, 2005 5:23 pm

MSZ wrote:2D = zero polygon imo.

So RS = 3D iyo?

MSZ · Post by **MSZ** » Mon May 02, 2005 9:08 pm

Recap wrote:
MSZ wrote:2D = zero polygon imo.
So RS = 3D iyo?

I have a very hard time to call games like RS, R-Type Delta/Final and Gradius V "2D". Normally I just call them "shmups".

ForteMP3 · Post by **ForteMP3** » Mon May 02, 2005 9:46 pm

Raiden Fighters Jet. That's some beautiful 2D right there.