Diablo 3

[escadrille]

I haven't played any of them but my friends always ranted about how awesome Diablo II was. I think I'll download it and give it a shot to see if I should get excited for DIII.

For sure. I played enough Diablo II to at least want to try Diablo III. I just hope they've deepend the gameplay a little bit.


As to other games being repetitive, this is true, but hopefully there is some variety. Diablo gameplay does lack variety, beyond perhaps choosing between a character that runs up and hits things or stands far away and plinks at things with a bow/fireball.

[moozooh]

Repetition is a matter of perspective, and by that I mean knowing what you want from the game.

Let me remind you that shmups are awesomely repetitive as a whole. For the most part, you only shoot enemies, dodge bullets, and collect some icons floating through the screen. The games span less than an hour, so after that hour (and usually way before), you start again, and there's no new content. After a few hours with any game, you know exactly what's coming at you, and even purposefully try to restrict your actions to the same route you deem most effective.

Picking a game apart and disliking it isn't hard; knowing what you're going to get and still enjoying it is a virtue.

[it290]

Damn -- I'm hyped. I wish Fallout 3 was going to look like this.

[landshark]

Damn -- I'm hyped. I wish Fallout 3 was going to look like this.

I really like the direction Fallout 3 is headed.

[escadrille]

Repetition is a matter of perspective, and by that I mean knowing what you want from the game.

Let me remind you that shmups are awesomely repetitive as a whole. For the most part, you only shoot enemies, dodge bullets, and collect some icons floating through the screen. The games span less than an hour, so after that hour (and usually way before), you start again, and there's no new content. After a few hours with any game, you know exactly what's coming at you, and even purposefully try to restrict your actions to the same route you deem most effective.

Picking a game apart and disliking it isn't hard; knowing what you're going to get and still enjoying it is a virtue.

But the difference here is that e.g. shmups require more skills on the part of the player. You have to adapt to the challenges presented by the game in order to complete it or improve your score. Diablo games don't have this requirement. You just click. The appeal comes from collecting items, not defeating enemies.

It's also an RPG thing in general. Many of them function more like interactive fiction than "games" in the classic sense. That's not a shot against RPGs (I've played many), just a distinction.

[GaijinPunch]

These are pretty mindless, which is the gem. I put a lot of hours into the first Diablo. Almost had to do another semester of college b/c of it!

[moozooh]

But the difference here is that e.g. shmups require more skills on the part of the player. You have to adapt to the challenges presented by the game in order to complete it or improve your score. Diablo games don't have this requirement. You just click.

"You just click", amazing close-mindedness. Go and play D2 LoD in hardcore mode and see how "just clicking" makes you end your game on the first MSLE enemy you can't just run past.

[themachinist]

LOL MSLE. Tru dat! Been awhile since i've seen that acronym. Or those crazy suicide exploding guys. Or those swarms of little dudes with knives in Act 3.

[it290]

I really like the direction Fallout 3 is headed.

Really? I'm interested in it, to be sure, but as a die-hard fan of the series I can't help but feel that Bethesda is forsaking everything that Fallout stands for.

[GaijinPunch]

"You just click", amazing close-mindedness. .

Diablo (and just about every other game, MMORPG especially): Level up the character.
Shooters: Level up the player.

Clicking set aside, the one that requires more skill is painfully apparent. And, as stated in the video, "you can play with just a mouse". Personally, I think that's the selling point. I stay away from complex bullshit these days.

[moozooh]

I don't argue that shmups generally require more physical effort to attain the goals, but the problem is that the goals aren't really comparable. You don't argue that shmups require more skill than chess, and you don't argue that chess requires more skill then tennis, and so on.

[Twiddle]

I really like the direction Fallout 3 is headed.

Really? I'm interested in it, to be sure, but as a die-hard fan of the series I can't help but feel that Bethesda is forsaking everything that Fallout stands for.

Interactivity and tight writing. Any other answer would result in an automatic IQ reduction of 100.

[it290]

And freedom in gameplay - with Bethesda games it always comes down to a simulation of choice where really the only way to get through every situation is to pummel the crap out of everybody - kind of like Diablo 3, in fact, only not nearly as fun.

Back to Diablo - the environmental combat aspect looks like a lot of fun, hopefully it will play out better than other games that have tried to use this feature (Dark Messiah of Might & Magic springs to mind). I'm wondering how much randomization the dungeons will be able to have with the fully 3D environments, but I trust Blizzard to pull it off.

I think the witch doctor looks like a great class, but then again I always preferred the Necro in D2 since his gameplay was more strategic than many of the other classes.

About the 'simplicity' of the game-- I wouldn't mind seeing some more NetHack-type items with unknown and weird effects. I think figuring out what everything does is one of the most enjoyable parts of any Roguelike, and Diablo has always been somewhat lacking in this respect (too easy to identify things).

[kengou]

I've been playing Diablo 2 for a couple hours now.

It's pretty fun, sure. The depth of the combat seems (from a nooby perspective) to come from positioning more than just 'clicking on enemies'. You need to be able to run in, hit, and run out before the enemy can hit you. You need to be able to position yourself against the swarms of enemies so you only fight one at a time. You also need to dodge enemy projectiles (wee, dodging stuff!). You need to manage your stamina and health and mana and items all at the same time. You need to make some basic decisions about special moves to employ. Well, that's about it as far as I can tell. But still, pretty fun. I imagine it would be really awesome online with friends. Like Gauntlet.

One thing I have issue with is that I did all the (two) quests I could find in the main village that I started out in, so I started wandering around killing things and occasionally exploring underground dungeons. I hope there's more to the game than this! Where do I go for more quests?

[moozooh]

Explore further; almost all the quests find you by themselves.

Keep an eye for "!" bubbles over NPCs' heads.

[PROMETHEUS]

yeah Kengou you'll find a lot of quests taking you constantly to different places. If you've done just 2 quests you must have just killed Blood Raven or whatever her name was, then right now you are supposed to explore a little to find what's called the Stone Field or something that you can access from that area that comes before the grave yard where Blood Raven was >.<

[TodayIsForgotten]

This game does look amazing. I'm glad they stuck to diablo roots and leave a familiar GUI along with graphics that, while look great, are still diablo-style graphics. I'm tired of how realistic stuff can get. I cannot wait.

[PROMETHEUS]

Diablo (and just about every other game, MMORPG especially): Level up the character.
Shooters: Level up the player.

While I completely agree with your comparison of MMORPG vs [game that takes skill], Diablo isn't just about leveling up a character and grabbing more powerful stuff. Unlike all MMORPGs I know of, its gameplay is just fun, fast paced and interesting enough in itself. It is also interesting for its general atmosphere and story, which no MMORPG has either.

Now, there is a stupid addictive part to Diablo games that kept them alive all those years that consists in always providing players with new, more powerful items or goals to go after that take 1000s of hours to get. But not all players fall into addiction and there is definitely a place for those who enjoy a game for its cool new ideas and atmosphere too.

[Ed Oscuro]

FO3, Diabo 3, Max Payne 3...oh wait

man this is depressing :C

(Diabo 2 killed my PC; more accurately, the wrapper I used to get the perspective mode to work did)

[moozooh]

http://www.petitiononline.com/d3art/petition.html

Even if you don't personally sign it, look at the examples in the list at the bottom.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

I've yet to see anything "realistic" that's just grey and brown and muddy.

[moozooh]

More realistic than blue and green, apparently.

[Ed Oscuro]

from the petition moozoh posted:

[We want a] Graphically realistic world with realistic, dirty and muddy textures

Because "dirty and muddy textures" is such a potent catchphrase.

I like how in this image the "fix' for rainbows is to toss film grain and dirt all over.

Could it have a bit more character? Sure, it could have some darker shades (especially the top picture there).

[PROMETHEUS]

We haven't even seen all the sceneries that will be in the game yet ^^ I love gothic and dark stuff, but D2 brought in some nice new ideas such as the desert city that looked good. Apparently they're redoing it in Diablo III, it's not gothic and dark but I'm glad it's in.

[Tempest]

I'm too lazy to search for it, but there was an image perfect for this whole "Darker Colors": A picture of Gears of War on the left saying "Oh man, brown and gray, where's all the color?" and a picture of Diablo 3 on the right side that says "Oh man, color, where's all the brown and gray?" Truth of the matter is, after everyone shat their pants, the inevitable neigh saying with every big release comes out. This petition is retarded because first of all, how can anyone claim to know that color scheme/theme of the game after only seeing two levels? Act 1 of D2 was set mostly in the plains/fields, and Act 3 was set in a jungle, neither of which are very browny gray and D2 worked out fine. Second, everyone on that petition is going to buy the game regardless of what Blizzard does or doesn't do about it.

The internet: Making something out of nothing since 1996 (This post included).

[PainAmplifier]

One thing I have issue with is that I did all the (two) quests I could find in the main village that I started out in, so I started wandering around killing things and occasionally exploring underground dungeons. I hope there's more to the game than this! Where do I go for more quests?

As far as quests go, there really isn't much more to it. There are 6 'quests' per act and that's it. (And act 4 only has 3!)

Just open your quest log from the quick bar at the start of each act to see them all. The only 'hidden quest' is the secret cow level. And that's not a quest per se.

Diablo 2 does tend to hold your hand as far as the quests go. So if you basically just explore the levels in the order you find them you will hit them all. You don't need to do most of them. And you can in fact bypass all but the quest to kill each Act boss and the related ones in Act 3 that open the way to the boss. The only one that has any negative effect is if you don't rescue Cain before heading to the monestary. And iirc, the only bad effect of that is he will no longer identify stuff for free. (And maybe miss out on a ring from the magic shop chick as a reward.)

Some of the quests you will want to make sure to do though. As they give some permanent stat bonuses or skill points that help a lot.

For the most part Diablo II is mainly a "Kill, Loot and Level" game. Which is fine really. (It's not wholly unlike a shmup, with the usual "Shoot, Power up and Score" gaming.) It's the smooth action and general play mechanic that makes it a fun game. Not how many fedex or kill X mobs quests you can shoehorn into it. (MMO's I'm looking at you!) The large and diverese selection of characters and skills is part of what gives the game depth beyond the random loot.

Although I admit my biggest issue with the game is the cheap 1 hit kills from certain enemies. Mostly related to the way damage and resists are calculated/handled. It's this design (what I think of as a flaw) that makes D2 a bit too much of a 'potion chugger'. Although it's not a crippling one, as the games enduring popularity can attest to.

[escadrille]

LOL MSLE. Tru dat! Been awhile since i've seen that acronym. Or those crazy suicide exploding guys. Or those swarms of little dudes with knives in Act 3.

I know the guys you mean. The blowgun ones were worse because they kept running away...

I've played quite a bit of Diablo 2. I'm not speaking based on 5 mins of the demo.



GaijinPunch is spot on when he points out that the relative mindlessness and repetitiveness of the games is what makes them so appealing.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

I'm too lazy to search for it, but there was an image perfect for this whole "Darker Colors": A picture of Gears of War on the left saying "Oh man, brown and gray, where's all the color?" and a picture of Diablo 3 on the right side that says "Oh man, color, where's all the brown and gray?" Truth of the matter is, after everyone shat their pants, the inevitable neigh saying with every big release comes out. This petition is retarded because first of all, how can anyone claim to know that color scheme/theme of the game after only seeing two levels? Act 1 of D2 was set mostly in the plains/fields, and Act 3 was set in a jungle, neither of which are very browny gray and D2 worked out fine. Second, everyone on that petition is going to buy the game regardless of what Blizzard does or doesn't do about it.

The internet: Making something out of nothing since 1996 (This post included).

wells, it's not like the same people are complaining about the abundance or lack of color at the same time.

[Ed Oscuro]

Everything new and exciting brings out those whiners with a conservative bent of mind, that's all.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Colors are something new and exciting!?

*orgasmic explosion*