What's missing?

[Turrican]

In your mind what are the elements missing from most homebrew/doujin shooters that stop them from being as good as professional arcade releases?

That's a wrong question: there are good and bad games, and they belong either to commercial releases and homebrew scene. So the only possible answer is: nothing.

It's implying that homebrew isn't as good as pro, but of course there should be an agreement on what actually makes a game "good".

Also, in the age of bedroom coders, the most creative and sensational stuff the industry ever had, the big hits were all basically "doujin".

I think another possible answer to give is this - when a development team creates something unique, compelling and gorgeous, the chances that it will be commercially released are higher. They'll want to make a living out of their passion and a return from the time spent on projects. Therefore "quality" might be a sort of natural criteria to divide the fields. It's not necessarily so, but it's statistically a proven trend.

[cigsthecat]

Man this forum really needs a multiquote feature.

My question to this discussion is: Do we talk about people with talent only and why there games lacking of something or why there's a lack of talent? Or is this purely a gameplay discussion?

I mean it's obvoius that most homebrew games don't reach professional game quality but in most cases they don't even try. When they reaching an professional level, then theres no reason for being homebrew anymore. So, when you try to be on a professional level and have some talent, but don't reach it, then it has mostly something to do with a lack of budget.

Personally I would exlude not so talented homebrew makers from this discussion, because it would make a thread of it's own.

I'm interested to hear about anything anybody has to say as to why a homebrew game would be perceived as less than a professional game. Someone without talent will never make something great, however many of the things they do wrong are easy to correct. I'm really talking about everything that applies to homebrew projects.

However I don't agree that budget is what keeps homebrew games from reaching the level of professional releases.

Yes, it's about time and budget. I mean talent is an important factor as everyone knows but time can hardly compensate a complete lack of budget also. I just think that with budget Blue Wish Resurrection could look and play like ESPGaluda as even gameplay needs budget.

Time can compensate for a lack of budget, if the talent and skill is there. By this I mean that it may take a single person several years to complete a game since he will have to work on it in his free time while working another job. Budget only allows you the luxury of working on your project full time. If the artists involved with BWR had the talent/skills to create stuff on the level of ESPGaluda then it would look that good.

Are you talking to me? Wink

I was only abused by poeple who don't play the games they're critizising. Normally those people are diligent enough to avoid this but with Last hope somehow they felt free to do that. So, I'm not sure if you can say that most independet devs lack of right attitude per se.

This wasn't directed specifically at you; it's an issue that I think a lot of independent creators get caught up in. It's important to remember that amazing, top level games rarely come out of nowhere. They come from teams with years of experience hitting their stride. Even companies like Raizing and Cave didn't have incredible first games, and those teams were made up of developers that had cut their teeth on previous games in the genre.

So when a new creator gets all butt hurt about his first game not being perfect it's just incredibly arrogant.

I'd say a lack of playtesters.

You can do all the individual elements right but it won't necessarily come together to make something fun.

Agreed, and this goes back to what I was saying about the creator needing to be an experienced player that will enjoy endlessly playing and tweaking his game. And then on top of that getting an outside group to test would further improve things.

Putting aside for a moment the fact that "quality" means different things to different people, while you're obviously right that how something's marketed doesn't affect what's actually in it, it can and often does affect the reception the product gets,...

Marketing comes later in the process. I thought about what you bring up below while I posted before, but as far as this discussion goes I'm speaking about the actual nuts and bolts of the game design. The game itself remains the same regardless of how the public perceives it.

which, from the creator's standpoint especially, is really all that matters - you can create Objectively The Best Game Ever, but if no one bothers to buy/play it, your work's been wasted, regardless.

Not really. A creator should have a strong passionate vision that they are trying to bring to fruition. Certainly there's the desire for the public to enjoy it, but first and foremost he should seek to please and entertain himself.

In any event, people can frequently be made to overlook a title's faults if it's presented to them in a certain way - sometimes you're not even aware you're doing it, but in some cases you'll openly say to yourself and others, "yeah, A, B, and C suck about this game, but it has X, Y, and Z, which I really like, so I put up with it." So yeah, marketing doesn't actually change anything about what's "right" or "wrong" with a game, but it can make it a good deal more difficult for many to see the aforementioned clearly, and thus have far-reaching effects on a game's reputation and ultimate success, which, again, are all that truly ends up mattering, from a purely "practical" point of view at least. And of course the producer of a game isn't the only one who can "market" it in this way (peers, reviewers, etc. can also contribute to this effect), but it still happens, even to "niche/hardcore" types, a la the "stereotypical shmupper."

This really has more to do with branding and selling of a concept to the player. I think that this kind of iconic design and appeal is hugely important, but no amount of marketing will save a truly horrible product except to the lowest common denominator. This stuff really comes from the product itself and the marketing becomes an extension of that. As far as creative works go anyway.

That's a wrong question: there are good and bad games, and they belong either to commercial releases and homebrew scene. So the only possible answer is: nothing.

It's implying that homebrew isn't as good as pro, but of course there should be an agreement on what actually makes a game "good".

In theory you're correct, but the fact is that homebrew games are perceived to be generally of lesser quality than commercial games. This topic is an attempt to dissect homebrew games and find what is commonly missing.

Also, in the age of bedroom coders, the most creative and sensational stuff the industry ever had, the big hits were all basically "doujin"

This doesn't make a lot of sense. There may be a minor language barrier issue, but saying that the biggest hits throughout gaming were mainly doujin is pretty silly. I agree that there are many independents taking risks big companies wouldn't, but they're doing it on such a small scale that it doesn't amount to much. And I don't mean sales here, I mean by not creating something that feels like a full, complete game.

I think another possible answer to give is this - when a development team creates something unique, compelling and gorgeous, the chances that it will be commercially released are higher. They'll want to make a living out of their passion and a return from the time spent on projects. Therefore "quality" might be a sort of natural criteria to divide the fields. It's not necessarily so, but it's statistically a proven trend.

Again, it's not that the criteria of what is "good" changes when viewing homebrew vs. commercial- it's an attempt to verbalize the things that keep most homebrew projects from reaching the level of a commercial game.

Does anyone have any specific little things they feel are often missing from homebrew projects?

[orange]

Things lacking in homebrew: a sequel to Cave Story.

[szycag]

Also, in the age of bedroom coders, the most creative and sensational stuff the industry ever had, the big hits were all basically "doujin"

This doesn't make a lot of sense. There may be a minor language barrier issue, but saying that the biggest hits throughout gaming were mainly doujin is pretty silly. I agree that there are many independents taking risks big companies wouldn't, but they're doing it on such a small scale that it doesn't amount to much. And I don't mean sales here, I mean by not creating something that feels like a full, complete game.

I think this was referring to early videogames being made by very small teams (Adventure, the Williams games, Oliver Twins) which is a pretty good point...

[Antoniuss]

Associating a doujin game with an image of loli goth chicks (overused) with a dialog made for only japanese people entertainment helps the overall boredom in most doujin games ( yes touhou, im looking at you! ). Also, they are really really bland, visually and audio wise! (oh no another wapanese techno crackhead sort of song, no no neeever heard before /irony)

[RHE]

Man this forum really needs a multiquote feature.

Indeed. Quoting on this board system, and probably any other, is just pain. I didn't find out yet, how to make multiply qoutes to make them look right.

This wasn't directed specifically at you; it's an issue that I think a lot of independent creators get caught up in. It's important to remember that amazing, top level games rarely come out of nowhere. They come from teams with years of experience hitting their stride. Even companies like Raizing and Cave didn't have incredible first games, and those teams were made up of developers that had cut their teeth on previous games in the genre.

So when a new creator gets all butt hurt about his first game not being perfect it's just incredibly arrogant.

This is an important point about attitude. The attidute from both players and devs should be right. Giving a devs debut the whole backlash is just unfair and deconstructive.

However I don't agree that budget is what keeps homebrew games from reaching the level of professional releases.

Then we have different opinions on that but let me explain further as I think budget is the main point in this discussion when homebrew makers try to be on a professional level. Maybe you can correct me on this.

To make good gameplay you need less budget then all the other aspect of game development but still, to reech a professional level you need a lot of time or budget. With 2D gaming you need less budget, yes, but there's a reason why hardly any 3D gameplay homebrews popping up - a lack of budget.

Time can compensate for a lack of budget, if the talent and skill is there. By this I mean that it may take a single person several years to complete a game since he will have to work on it in his free time while working another job. Budget only allows you the luxury of working on your project full time. If the artists involved with BWR had the talent/skills to create stuff on the level of ESPGaluda then it would look that good

To make a game equally good as Ikaruga/Gradius V in any terms, you would need 10/20 years without budget. No one would do this.

Now I'm asking, why does BWR doesnt look like and play ESPG? The maker seems to have the talent to at least come close to this. Gameplay is more complex then it seems to most people, so it doesn't seem to be worth it for most homebrew makers a they don't want to sell their games. Maybe you should ask all the homebrew makers why they don't add such things which differs a homebrew from a proffessional game. I'm assumming you will get three answers or an combination of the three: I don't have the talent/I don't have the budget/I don't try.

The benefit of homebrew is to do whatever you want the way you want it. Maybe most homebrew makers just don't feel the need to do something like Gradius V because they can do something like a professionel dev never could do since it would not sell.

[Turrican]

In theory you're correct, but the fact is that homebrew games are perceived to be generally of lesser quality than commercial games.

I'm glad we agree on that point, because I was indeed talking about the theory, not the facts.

Also, in the age of bedroom coders, the most creative and sensational stuff the industry ever had, the big hits were all basically "doujin"

This doesn't make a lot of sense. There may be a minor language barrier issue, but saying that the biggest hits throughout gaming were mainly doujin is pretty silly. I agree that there are many independents taking risks big companies wouldn't, but they're doing it on such a small scale that it doesn't amount to much. And I don't mean sales here, I mean by not creating something that feels like a full, complete game.

szycag got what I was trying to say, I think: Manic Miner, Adventure, Dropzone, Little Computer People and countless others really - by your definition of "professional" (huge staff; years of solid career and experience etc.) they would all fall into the homebrew category, yet they were released and became the masterpieces and/or blockbusters of their times. I know that those were simpler times, but that's another element to consider, I guess.

This topic is an attempt to dissect homebrew games and find what is commonly missing.

That's why I tried to offer another, more practical answer in my previous post:

I think another possible answer to give is this - when a development team creates something unique, compelling and gorgeous, the chances that it will be commercially released are higher.

A perfect example here would be the awesome Alien Hominid. Started definitely as an homebrew project, but soon it was all to evident that it was TOO good to remain that.

[RHE]

Manic Miner, Adventure, Dropzone, Little Computer People and countless others really - by your definition of "professional" (huge staff; years of solid career and experience etc.) they would all fall into the homebrew category, yet they were released and became the masterpieces and/or blockbusters of their times. I know that those were simpler times, but that's another element to consider, I guess.

Maybe it should be clarified what professional means to the people in this discusion before it can contuinou.

Professional means to me being up-to-date so your mentioned simple games don't count, from my believe, into this discussion. Professional also includes budget and the abilitly to finish the game withing the time line. Quality is nothing that diffeers between homebrew and professional games per se, it's just mostly the case as homebrew lacks of budget or need too much time.

Some of the qualities that homebrews feature will never or just rarely available in professional developments. It's a different style for different needs.

Started definitely as an homebrew project, but soon it was all to evident that it was TOO good to remain that.

I'm not sure what you mean. When the mentioned game ever was homebrew then it is still a homebrew regardless it's marketing and/or systems it has been released. To be more specific, there were only one or a few stages of your mentioned game so and then a company found to finish and release it - so the whole game is not homebrew only it's prototype is. I mean Hiroshi Iuchi from Treasure could easily do a homebrew with all his experience but withohut Treasure. Hiroshi would remain his professional attitude but he would most likely lack of budget.

But then I'm not sure what this discussion is exactly about. One thng for sure, to make a game fun you don't need budget but to go on par with professional games you will need it.

[Turrican]

Professional means to me being up-to-date so your mentioned simple games don't count, from my believe, into this discussion.

Foolish talk. Videogame is not a mere technical spec you know. What does it mean "being up to date"? A great gaming concept and a compelling game are timeless. Also if with "simple games" you're referring to those classics, well they WERE up-to-date when they were released.

IMHO.

I'm not sure what you mean. When the mentioned game ever was homebrew then it is still a homebrew regardless it's marketing and/or systems it has been released.

It means that the game found its way into commercial release. (NOT an indicator of quality per se - but a logical step for a good game). In other words, if we agree that quality doesn't separates homebrew from professional (probably a wrong choice of word) then marketing/distribution is the criteria to distinguish them. (theory)

I mostly agree with the other sentences you wrote.

[doctorx0079]

I think if you're just starting out and you really want to release stuff on the internet, you should make it free. Then it will always be okay as long as it's halfway decent. It's when you start charging people that they expect more. If I can get Raiden III for $30 then why should I pay more for a game that isn't as good as Raiden III? I'm not referring to anyone in particular, just making an example.

[BulletMagnet]

The game itself remains the same regardless of how the public perceives it.

On a purely "physical" or "literal" level, yes, but the fact remains that when ten different people play the exact same game, thanks to each person's preferences, preconceptions, etc., they are getting ten different experiences from the same product. If this were not the case, then every gamer would view and rate every game in exactly the same way. I understand that you're trying to eliminate as much of this sort of unmeasurable thing as possible when it comes to the topic you're discussing, which is good, but I think you're underestimating just how much influence the unquantifiable has on "how history views a game," or however you might put it. It's not as easy to discount or ignore as you seem to hope it is, though I can definitely understand your hoping otherwise.

A creator should have a strong passionate vision that they are trying to bring to fruition. Certainly there's the desire for the public to enjoy it, but first and foremost he should seek to please and entertain himself.

"Should" being the key word here. Yeah, it'd be great if developers were all motivated solely by "love for the game," and could create the best dang games they could without worrying about profitability, but unfortunately for we gamers that's not how it works. Obviously for at least some developers a "love for the game" is at least part of their motivation when creating something, but it still always comes in second place to profitability. Van Gogh painted what he wanted to paint despite the tastes of the art market at the time, and history has judged him a genius ahead of his time, but all of this certainly didn't do the artist himself much good. Further, I doubt that you're going to find too many game developers willing or able (he was only able to paint as long as he did because he kept mooching off his family) to "suffer for their art" in stereotypical artist fashion, especially with publishers breathing down their necks.

It reminds me of a "what if" scenario that's popped up on here once or twice before - the dream of a company giving a modern-day shmup a huge budget, long development cycle, high-res graphics, super-refined gameplay system, huge marketing blitz, the works - the fabled Best Shmup Ever. Could someone produce it if they wanted to? Sure - plenty of companies have the resources to do it and the ability to recruit the expertise on the programming front. Why don't they? Because they simply wouldn't be able to turn a profit on it (or, for that matter, rate above a 6.5 out of 10 from most reviewers) in today's gaming market. Nothing else matters - end of story. If history was rewritten and shmups were the dominant genre while FPS and sports games were niche, the aforementioned mythical shmup would likely have already appeared (and Halo would be a "cult classic") but that's simply not the way things are.

As you say, it's a tall order to "re-brand" a REALLY awful game, but I still say you're underestimating exactly what you're up against when you attempt to view games in a purely objective fashion. Not that you shouldn't try your hardest to do so, granted, but you also have to realize that there's only so much impact that such an attempt can make, even on a small scale (this forum), let alone anything larger.

[RHE]

Foolish talk. Videogame is not a mere technical spec you know. What does it mean "being up to date"?

Up to date means to deliver on demand. I mean is it professional to make a quality game but no one wants to play it on the system its released? Profesional is nothing static and as you say it's nore just a technical spec.

That's way being homewbrew doesn't exludes being profesional to the same time. I think that's what you mean with adding games like Manic Miner, Dropzone and so on. That's just not up to date when we speak about the current game industry/like the game industry was in the 90s. It doesnt take any quality away from those tiltes though.

A great gaming concept and a compelling game are timeless.

But do they sell?

It means that the game found its way into commercial release. (NOT an indicator of quality per se - but a logical step for a good game).

Yeah, that's right. Commerical is not profesional per se, so I were confused about your statement.

On a purely "physical" or "literal" level, yes, but the fact remains that when ten different people play the exact same game, thanks to each person's preferences, preconceptions, etc., they are getting ten different experiences from the same product. If this were not the case, then every gamer would view and rate every game in exactly the same way. I understand that you're trying to eliminate as much of this sort of unmeasurable thing as possible when it comes to the topic you're discussing, which is good, but I think you're underestimating just how much influence the unquantifiable has on "how history views a game," or however you might put it. It's not as easy to discount or ignore as you seem to hope it is, though I can definitely understand your hoping otherwise.

That's an important factor. People will may change there view of on a game when it has good marketing etc.

"Should" being the key word here. Yeah, it'd be great if developers were all motivated solely by "love for the game," and could create the best dang games they could without worrying about profitability, but unfortunately for we gamers that's not how it works. Obviously for at least some developers a "love for the game" is at least part of their motivation when creating something, but it still always comes in second place to profitability. Van Gogh painted what he wanted to paint despite the tastes of the art market at the time, and history has judged him a genius ahead of his time, but all of this certainly didn't do the artist himself much good. Further, I doubt that you're going to find too many game developers willing or able (he was only able to paint as long as he did because he kept mooching off his family) to "suffer for their art" in stereotypical artist fashion, especially with publishers breathing down their necks.

This is why I'm talking about budget all the time. With budget a dev has the right attitude/motivation to make quality. Likewise to do marketing you need budget.

Difficulty is interesting because most homebrew creators don't know how to add difficulty in a fair way that can be learned and overcome as you play. It's weird to see them having the same problems professional developers encountered 20-30 years ago. I think that comes down to playing experience and not understanding the history of the genre and where it's currently at.

That's what I don't understand with most homebrew games too since G-Type is besided Last Hope the only difficulty homebrew I know. And none of both doesn't feature a difficulty learning curve. So what keeps homebrews away from that? Is it a lack of understanding or just a lack of time? Adding a learning curve and especially overall balancing is extremely time consuming so it may be that.

I mean most homebrew makers just want to make a game fun to play so they don't mind too much ahead as a balancing curve needs it.

[320x240]

My advice to homebrew developers is to focus on fewer things and polish those til they sparkle. I've spent the last four months working on (more or less) the same one or two enemies central to my game. Granted, I'm 99% inspiration and 1% perspiration, but still, I think this is an example more developers should follow.

[shoe-sama]

hey guys how do i make a shmup

all these shmups that are coming out are lame they all have chaining lolis slowdown X 2984763246234324324

[Udderdude]

hey guys how do i make a shmup

Something tells me you'd get halfway through the first sentence of the game design document before your ADD kicked in, and you went flying off to spam "PVP" in #shmups again.

all these shmups that are coming out are lame they all have chaining lolis slowdown X 2984763246234324324

You hate pretty much every shmup ever made, I've never ever seen you actually compliment one .. so I don't know what it would take to satisfy you

[Turrican]

You hate pretty much every shmup ever made, I've never ever seen you actually compliment one .. so I don't know what it would take to satisfy you

You take the turkey too seriously.

[320x240]

Something tells me you'd get halfway through the first sentence of the game design document before your ADD kicked in, and you went flying off to spam "PVP" in #shmups again.

What's a game design document?

You hate pretty much every shmup ever made, I've never ever seen you actually compliment one .. so I don't know what it would take to satisfy you

Don't worry, shoe-sama will like mine. It's all about rapid shooting and fire spewing cannons.

[Zhoul]

I was only abused by poeple who don't play the games they're critizising. Normally those people are diligent enough to avoid this but with Last hope somehow they felt free to do that. So, I'm not sure if you can say that most independet devs lack of right attitude per se.

One doesn't need to "play" a game to see that it's art direction is amateurish in both screen shots and videos.

[Zhoul]

Things lacking in homebrew: a sequel to Cave Story.

It's spiritual successor (The Underside) doesn't seem too bad, though:

http://www.insignificantstudios.com/

[orange]

Things lacking in homebrew: a sequel to Cave Story.

It's spiritual successor (The Underside) doesn't seem too bad, though:

http://www.insignificantstudios.com/

whoah whoah this looks awesome :>

[shoe-sama]

Something tells me you'd get halfway through the first sentence of the game design document before your ADD kicked in, and you went flying off to spam "PVP" in #shmups again.

What's a game design document?

You hate pretty much every shmup ever made, I've never ever seen you actually compliment one .. so I don't know what it would take to satisfy you

Don't worry, shoe-sama will like mine. It's all about rapid shooting and fire spewing cannons.

[Udderdude]

G-Type is besided Last Hope the only difficulty homebrew I know. And none of both doesn't feature a difficulty learning curve.

Don't know what planet you've been living on, but there are plenty of homebrew/doujin shmups that are difficult. Maybe not in the same way Last Hope is difficult, but they are definitely difficult.

And I've never even heard of G-Type. Google reveals a screenshot that looks like it uses ripped R-Type graphics. Wow. :/

[shoe-sama]

g-type is piss easy

[Ixmucane]

The generalization that commercial games are good and independent games are bad is meaningless; there are many exceptions both ways, and it's obvious that a development team with greater skill and budget is likely to produce better results.
However, lack of maturity and game design wisdom in inexperienced developers and many social, technical and psychological factors cause differences in how games delivered by software houses and by amateurs turn out bad.

Premature releases

Unfinished doujin and freeware games are usually rushed to meet hard deadlines (homework, competitions, Comiket...) or interrupted for personal reasons (general depression, disaffection for a loathed or defective project, life problems...) and made available on a "better than nothing" basis.
Professionally developed games are less exposed to haste and abandonment for many reasons: release deadlines are mostly flexible, there are managers eager to cancel any bad project, software house staff has some degree of redundancy and strong motivation, and releasing a flawed game is often worse than releasing nothing at all (contrary to community-oriented freeware and shareware).

Professional game developers that are late try to cut features almost unnoticeably (e.g. less available weapons) or in a way that hurts but makes sense (e.g. a strategy game without AI opponents); an arcade shmup can make do with less enemy types and weapons, recycle backgrounds between levels, use fewer but longer levels (with less graphical assets) and reuse them with looping, simplify bosses and levels from their original design, etc.
Feature cuts in doujin games tend to be less wise: we often get perfect engines with very little content (for instance, many doujin "demo versions" lack a corresponding full game), placeholder or very rough or ripped graphics, glitches and stability problems (i.e. insufficient or absent beta testing).

Inappropriate priorities

Many inexperienced (i.e. mostly amateur) developers don't work with the quality of the final product as their primary objective, even if they think they do.
Having inappropriate priorities can take different forms:

• Trying to compensate a known defect with something unrelated that seems less expensive or more valuable than addressing the actual problems
• Working preferentially on aspects of the game that match one's taste and competency, regardless of their importance
• Failing to recognize when a good idea is brought too far and becomes a bad idea

A game is more fragile than most types of software: it tends to be as fun as its worst defects allow, not in proportion to the quality of its best features or the amount of effort spent, as some developers apparently hope.

Games developed with unsuitable priorities can be recognized by the incoherent combination of good features demonstrating specialized skill and effort, bad features demonstrating lack of higher-level skill at ensuring overall quality, and often excessive features (e.g. 50 ships or weapons, unfathomable scoring and upgrade systems, complicated controls) demonstrating cluelessness about the game's actual needs.

Recurrent errors of doujin games include using 3D graphics because that's what one wants to learn (with ugly results) and concentrating on gameplay with indecent graphics.
There is a stark contrast with the better games in which 3D graphics are appropriate and polished, or that consciously adopt a "minimalistic" style to reduce graphics effort without looking bad.

A classic example. Jets'n'Guns Gold has a very complex shipbuilding system that many find excessive, but which might be considered a legitimate (and successful) attempt to push the state of the art of this specific feature and appeal to a certain niche taste.
What's wrong with the shipbuilding is that many of the numerous weapons are severely underpowered or overpowered, although all look very good: nobody at Rake In Grass ordered the development team to stop adding weapons and take care of their balance, perhaps temporarily repurposing their excellent artists as playtesters.
Did it happen because of collective failure to recognize the problem? For lack of authority to give unpleasant dispositions or fear to hurt someone's feelings? All possibilities seem typical of weakly managed organizations, and an individual developer is normally even more self-indulgent.

[320x240]

There's been some very good posts on this interesting subject.

[RHE]

Don't know what planet you've been living on, but there are plenty of homebrew/doujin shmups that are difficult. Maybe not in the same way Last Hope is difficult, but they are definitely difficult.

Maybe I just have a different skill level then yours. However, I'd like to hear a few shmup homebrews hat are difficult. I didn't play too much homebrews so far actually and that's why i've said G-Type is one of the few difficulty homebrews that I know personally.

The point of this is, anyway, that difficult homebrew games rarly have a difficutly balance curve.

And I've never even heard of G-Type. Google reveals a screenshot that looks like it uses ripped R-Type graphics. Wow. :/

Gameplaywise its'n a original game though, maybe you should play games befor you even bother to talk about them. G-Type btw has a lot of things which I personally call flaws, so it's nothing you would enjoy per se.

g-type is piss easy

I think it's more hard then Last Hope because it's more unfair. The waterfall pressure in G-Type ist way to strong and sometimes there're more bullets on screen then avoidable. It makes the game more hard then its needs to be fun.

There's been some very good posts on this interesting subject.

I think Ixmucanes strongest point is, that most homebew are just inmature. Most homebrew makers just don't really finish their games even if they think so.

[Ed Oscuro]

Mario.

And Stanley!

[shoe-sama]

g-type is piss easy

I think it's more hard then Last Hope because it's more unfair. The waterfall pressure in G-Type ist way to strong and sometimes there're more bullets on screen then avoidable. It makes the game more hard then its needs to be fun.

moar pod abuse plz