So really, how good is Dodonpachi on the Saturn?

[The Bullet Dodger]

If only sex was possible with video games, Dodonpachi would get it.

[Neon]

Get the Saturn version of DDP. Just make sure to play it on mame, or look at a screen shot, to see what you're missing. The explosion graphics are beautiful and totally botched in the Saturn version. Other than my graphics whoredom, the Saturn version is solid. I like DDP enough that I'll own both versions someday but I haven't put enough time into the console ports to tell you more specific differences than 'omg worse graphicz00rz.'

Metal slug on the other hand, there are about a thousand differences between PSX, Saturn, and arcade apiece I could list .

[dave4shmups]

I've played both versions, and I would never play the Saturn game again. The PS1 version is much better, as is DonPachi.

[Ganelon]

I don't know if a jap PSX game would work on a PS2.

It will, as long as your system is modded or you use the Breaker Pro swap disk. AFAIK, no other swap disk currently works.

Be warned though (as I've said many times here). DDP on the PS uses Redbook audio, which must be pre-appropriated by the swap disk for the PS1 to recognize the music tracks. PS-X-Change supposedly does not carry dummy tracks and so you'll get no music from DDP on a PS1. I'm not sure if the Breaker Pro uses those tracks to play Redbook audio or if things work differently on the PS2 but just a warning if you're interested in the PS version.

BTW, if you're going to pay more than $100 on a PS DDP, please check Yahoo Japan instead. You can likely find a $60 copy there, which even with a JP buying service fee, would still be cheaper.

[Dylan1CC]

As others said, the fact you have to use the same ship in 2P mode in the PSX rev is at least one major notch against that version. The folly of this happened this summer while playing the Saturn rev with one of my best friends. On the next credit he accidentally took the red fighter which I was using and we both kept confusing each other on the screen due to seeing the same weapon fire/charge beam in front of us. This led to a few unecessary deaths. ha

[Ghegs]

As others said, the fact you have to use the same ship in 2P mode in the PSX rev is at least one major notch against that version.

Only if you use the two-player mode a lot. I rarely do, I'd rather take turns in shmups.

[Dylan1CC]

As others said, the fact you have to use the same ship in 2P mode in the PSX rev is at least one major notch against that version.

Only if you use the two-player mode a lot. I rarely do, I'd rather take turns in shmups.

Yeah but the thing is, I'm fortunate enough to have quite a few friends who enjoy shooters a lot too. So if they're visiting and see me playing one, they usually want to join in. Plus the friend I mentioned above is a great side gunner, he even got decent fast at grazing bullets with the hitbox when I showed him how.

And taking turns is more fun than co-op? To each his own. It may be much, much harder to get a good score in co-op obviously, but if it's gonna be 2P it's more fun IMHO.

[Ghegs]

And taking turns is more fun than co-op? To each his own. It may be much, much harder to get a good score in co-op obviously, but if it's gonna be 2P it's more fun IMHO.

It's more fun if you want to play a bit more seriously, yes. Playing with two players is just fooling around and credit-feeding like mad most of the time, at least in my experience.

Then again, I only have one friend who's into shmups, so this influences my look on the subject as well. We do play Gradius V co-op seriously but everything else (including DOJ) we usually take turns on to see who's actually better at it.

[chtimi-CLA]

Metal slug on the other hand, there are about a thousand differences between PSX, Saturn, and arcade apiece I could list .

i have the saturn port and the MVS, and except loading times i don't see any differences, what did you notice?

also, pacrappa did a great feature in fanitsu about the SAT/PSX DDP ports comparison. since all images are broken and there is no direct linking to a particular thread, i'll paste it here (i don't pacrappa would have any problem with this)

The great DoDonPachi debate.

Back when I was first getting myself online and communicating with people through message boards(about one year ago), I saw a thread at shmups.com entitled something like, "Is the DoDonPachi on the PS1 as good as the Saturn version?". I thought I knew something about this and piped up to say something similar to, "It's doubtful because the only 2D game on the PS1 that is better than its Saturn counterpart is Castlevania Symphony of the Night". Sure enough some conscientious shmups lurker saw that one and raked me over the coals. He told me to do some research and that I'd obviously never played the PS1 version. That piqued my curiosity and I decided that I'd get this PS1 version no matter what I had to do. It took a couple months and even then it came to me accidentally. I was involved in a trade with a guy from gametz.com and I thought for sure he meant to send me a Saturn version which would have been great for the shop, still in its earliest formative stages. When my box arrived it had a shiny fresh copy of the Playstation version in it. I was overjoyed. I popped it in immediately and noticed a few glaring items of business that seemed to make all the difference. I quickly put the SS version on the chopping block and never really looked at it again. So is the PS1 jammy really better than its Sega Saturn counterpart? That is not so simple to answer, and certainly not as simple as I attempted to make it the day I received my PS1 copy. The differences between the two and possible superiority of one over the other is what this essay will discuss. Read on.


Just the Facts

The fact of the matter is you'll get a highly playable and enjoyable shooting experience no matter which system you choose. It's a great game and the flaws that either version may possess are slight when compared to the fun you'll have. Another fact is that the Saturn version has three modes of play while the PS1 has only one. The Playstation conversion features only the arcade mode while the Saturn adds Saturn mode and Score Attack mode to the mix. When I first found my way back to the SS version I was overjoyed at the Saturn Mode which I had forgotten completely. Unfortunately the joy faded after I realized that Saturn mode only offers a new first level and no continue options. The joy faded further after playing it a few more times and realizing that the new level sucks ass and is too easy. Why is THAT the new music? Where's the bullets? Could it be any easier? Uglier? The Score Attack mode offers the player a chance to get his best score in only three ships. Redundant and just like the Saturn mode, nothing to write home (or TFP2) about. The Playstation version offers a couple of slick options including a Twinkle Star Sprites(DC) style "slow down switch" enabling the gamer to turn the "wait" on or off. Default is off and I have no idea if the arcade original had any slowdown issues as I've only played the MAME32 version and it jerks like a seizure. Also the player can use the L1 button to slow down the entire game at will. To me both of these options are also basically useless but they do seem thoughtful at the very least. The last difference that stands as fact is display. The Playstation version offers a taller narrower field of view in standard horizontal TV mode that seems to cover all of what would be seen on vertical mode. The Saturn looks like it's cut a bit off the top in standard mode. This is offset a bit in the Saturn version by taking the bomb status bar from the bottom of the screen (where it resides in the PS1 and arcade versions) and moving it to the side to rest in the unused black border. Also in tate mode with the Playstation version the player must select which fighter to play at the options screen. Two players can play but they must both use the same ship. Shot and laser power are still selectable though.

Advantage: It's really feels like a tie in this department. In the modes of play and the display department, neither has the clear advantage.


Playing the Game.

The game works pretty well on both platforms. What the Saturn lacks in framerate stability it makes up for in controller. But then I've always preferred the Saturn's round d-pad and flat controller body to the Playstation controller's "not for 2D" feel. Let's backup for a second and talk about the framerate issue. Someone lacking anything interesting to do could probably poke around a message board or two and quote me more than once saying that the Playstation version has no slowdown. Let me be the first to tell you all that I was wrong. It will slow down in certain overly busy spots. Levels five and six spring to mind instantly. However its competition, the Saturn version, slows down out of the gate on level one and often for no detectable reason.

Advantage: Tie. The Saturn's slowdown is traded off for it's superior (IMHO) controller.


Graphic Depictions of Violence

I've always thought DoDonPachi was nice and pretty(except for that homely first level in the "Saturn Mode"). I enjoy the colors of enemies, backgrounds and bullets. The ship and boss designs aren't the most flashy or stylish but they certainly get the job done and don't leave me complaining. The true standout in the graphical department is the level of detail in the explosions. In the arcade and PS1 versions these explosions appear to be almost photo-real napalm explosions captured from Apocalypse Now or some such Vietnam war flick. They are meant to be true things of spritely beauty but in the Saturn version they've been murdered. Gone are the smoothly billowing puffs of orange flame and black smoke. Left in their place are nasty gangs of square formations that do little more than convey a notion of an intended explosion. Call me a silly nitpicker but after playing the PS1 version it is apparent that someone considered the creation of those explosions to be an artful labor of love. Not having that fit and finish there in the Saturn version is a huge letdown even if it is all eye candy. On further graphical note, the PS1 version seems to have sharper graphics in a general sense in lots of places. The huge red ship at the end of level three is sticking out in my mind as I write this. It seems a bit fuzzy and muddy in the Saturn version and it is of course all sharp and pretty with the PS1 version. I guess I'll harp on that no further. My point was made before I even started on "the huge red ship" bit. Below you'll find two screenshots. To your left is a Saturn screen with a nastily pixellated explosion and on the right is a Playstation screen illustrating the smoothness of detail previously mentioned.

the only thing i don't agree with him is about the superior saturn controller outweighing slowdown, since it should be played with an arcade stick anyway (but i know some people here prefer the pad).

[Nei First]

Thanks for clearing that PSX question Ganelon, and for that valuable long post chtimi, thanx to PaCrappa btw for those comparisons and to everyone else.

I've just seen a Mame32 video of DDP (thanks to BR1), and damn those explosions look beautiful. I've also only seen one saturn video of DDP, but from what I saw Neon and PaCrappa were right, those explosions are awful compared.

I know it's only details but it does make a difference.
Those explosions look satisfying, makes it look like your really screwing up your enemies. Also in the Mame32 video, the game is well damn sharp, and apparently the PSX version is like that too.

In the saturn video the game looked blurry, but the quality of the video wasn't great either, I'd want to see another saturn video just to be sure, anyone know where to get one?

Most likely I will be playing DDP by myself so the two player option won't be that much of an issue.
Then again there's that risk like Ganelon said about the redbook audio and getting the right swap disks, I already have a modded saturn.

Also the game is cheaper on saturn and the gameplay like everyone agrees here is still fun on both versions, and that's obviously more important. Hmmm, still deciding......

[Cugel]

I have the MAME, Saturn, and PSX versions of DDP. I don't have any problems with playing the Saturn version. In fact, I play the Saturn version more because of the better gamepad. While I own adapters for PC, Saturn, and PSX for my HORI Special Edition, I usually use gamepads because they're more convenient when I want to play a quick game.

When I play, I hardly notice the pixelated explosions. I'm too busy concentrating on playing. I guess if you're a bystander and watching someone else play the game, the explosions could be an issue, but you will hardly notice it while playing.

The PSX version is the fastest by far unless you use the RAINE version which removes all wait.

[TWITCHDOCTOR]

Maybe I'm juts feeling "pissy" this morning but, fuck it...
all the ports suck! I'm growing tired from all this talk of which port is better.
I honestly don't remember stage 2 slowing to a crawl in Donpachi (Saturn).

If you want to REALLY play Don and DoDon...get the PCBs, which should only set you back around $370.00!!! Plus, if you need a cab, add in another $600.000.
So yea, 1 grand and you can play some real Pachi!


BTW: Yea...I'm feeling pissy...thats for sure.

[Naiera]

Aside from being pissy, you're also being very unreasonable. Seriously, get a grip.

[Neon]

i have the saturn port and the MVS, and except loading times i don't see any differences, what did you notice?

Saturn port has a lot of missing frames, especially in the explosion of the tank's cannon, marco's breath on level 3, and basically throughout the game. It doesn't have any difficulty beyond the standard arcade one (except easier ones, those are useless though). It shows a weird hitbox type thing on the stage 1 boss. Also in some places there is a line of some kind on the screen, like at the stage 2 midboss or at a specific location on the 'ridge' part of stage 4. Saturn also has flower pots in the house windows, so you need to alter your strategy there a bit. Lastly the sound has been downsampled somewhat, and there are some sound effects missing, i.e. the rush of stage 1's waterfall, the announcer saying 'mission complete,' a few others.

EDIT: The Saturn version has a lot of slowdown not present in the other versions too.

The PSX version has so many frames missing it actually runs a bit faster than the others I think. Also sometimes as many as 4 enemies come out of the tanks on stage 4. Has less loadtime than the Saturn version though, even with the mid-level loads (these are very short, don't really matter, sucks that they reset the music though). Has more bonus artwork. The sound effects are surprisingly worse than the saturn version, but it has more of them.

That's all I can remember right now. I've 1 lifed each version a few times, been playing it for a few months, heh. Awesome game.

Back to DDP, the Saturn controller has been released for PS2, so that's not really an issue. Should really use a good Sanwa stick instead though, you'll never go back.

[Cugel]

Back to DDP, the Saturn controller has been released for PS2, so that's not really an issue. Should really use a good Sanwa stick instead though, you'll never go back.

The PS2 Saturn controller looks like the Saturn pad but is it as good? I have the USB Saturn controller and it's nice, but prefer using the Saturn pad with the PC 3in1 adapter.

Well, I have both the HORI RAP with modded Sanwa buttons and a HORI Special Edition with Seimitsu buttons and stick. I definitely prefer the Seimitsu for manic shmups like DDP, but the Saturn pad is quite nice. When I'm too lazy to hook up the HORI to the Saturn, I use the pad.

[LUNardei]

Mmm...

...mmm...

Imho:

PCB > Emulation > Home port

[Naiera]

Perhaps technically, but I share the view that emulation is a hollow experience.

[Nei First]

http://www.videogameimports.com/cgi-bin ... 8&topic=48

Even more opinions on the ports.

[Dylan1CC]

Hmmmm, without going overboard and being nitpicky you could say both the Saturn and PSX revs are good ports. End of story really. I own a JAMMA rig and could get the PCB if I wanted, but as long as I have the Sat rev I have a great pad, plus I can save my scores and spend my money on other PCBs which don't have home ports.

[Dylan1CC]

And taking turns is more fun than co-op? To each his own. It may be much, much harder to get a good score in co-op obviously, but if it's gonna be 2P it's more fun IMHO.

It's more fun if you want to play a bit more seriously, yes....we usually take turns on to see who's actually better at it.

Ah, that's a good idea. I should try a skill match sometime with my best friend Stu who is as big of a shooter fan as I am.

[TWITCHDOCTOR]

Aside from being pissy, you're also being very unreasonable. Seriously, get a grip.

Why don't you back off a little! Ok?

A little pissy, yea, but not unreasonable. All the nitpicking about the console ports is unreasonable. I was simply being sarcastic about it all. But yea, its true...if you want the best of the Pachis, you would have to get the PCB's.
To run em, of course, you would need either a cab or a SuperGun.
Personally, I would go with an arcade cab.

Then again, with that being said, I'm totally fine with the Saturn versions.
I prefer to play em on MAME0X on my Xbox though.
I also have a cdr of DoDonPachi for the PSX (for comparison purposes) which is hardly ever even used.

[LUNardei]

Uh uh, i've heard that the PSX version doesn't have slowdowns...
And this is not a clue of how good the conversion is! In Cave games slowdowns are part of the game! So you guys are playing just another game...

Imho only PCB and the direct PCB emulation is the way to play DDP.

[TWITCHDOCTOR]

Uh uh, i've heard that the PSX version doesn't have slowdowns...
And this is not a clue of how good the conversion is! In Cave games slowdowns are part of the game! So you guys are playing just another game...

Imho only PCB and the direct PCB emulation is the way to play DDP.

The PSX version does have slowdown...its only slightly though, unless you turn the "wait control" on. Still, even then, its too smooth/fast.

My first "Pachi" was the Saturn one, so all other versions are compared to this one, and MAME0X seems to be pretty close. (slightly more slowdown)
Yes, even with the "wait control on", the PSX version is smoother and faster.
I really don't care though, for "smoothness"...I want the closest "original" experience. Which is why I'll use MAME0X, or the Saturn version.

[Neon]

Here's my official statement on the matter (insert blaring trumpets)

- Advantages of Saturn DDP

Lower cost, easier to skip back to the main menu if you screw up (hold A,B, and C, then hit Start) quicker load times. The PSX has about 5 seconds between levels (played on a ps2) the Saturn version more like 2 (these are going off memory).

- Advantages of PSX DDP

Arcade perfect (UD tells me only a minor sound effect was altered, and I would treat anything this man says on DDP as gospel), can turn on slowdown as well as activate it with the L1 button.

I bought the game on PSX recently, going to buy it again on Saturn as well. The Saturn version is better to practice on I think, since it's easier to start over, and the loadtimes. Such a crying shame it got uglified, though.

[raiden]

I bought the game on PSX recently, going to buy it again on Saturn as well. The Saturn version is better to practice on I think, since it's easier to start over, and the loadtimes. Such a crying shame it got uglified, though.

as someone in the market for a Strikers 1945 II pcb, have you considered that this doesn´t have any kind of reset button? The funny thing, though, is I found myself having much more fun with Dodonpachi after being stripped of a "return to menu" option. Restarting over and over again drains all fun from a game for me, even if the current run won´t get me anywhere score-wise, it´s better in the long run to just go on playing, because the more often I restart, the less tolerance I have for my own mistakes.
Another thing to consider is the fact that when you practice with the Saturn version, this won´t help you much when you switch to PSX, as the timing is completely different. Similar thing with Strikers 1945 II, played that for 2 years on Saturn and had to start all over again after changing to PSX version (and then the same thing with PCB).
Two days ago I got myself a PS1 again, as a way to endure waiting until I can afford the Raiden DX PCB. For some reason, my old Playstation pad converter doesn´t have an active Start button support, so I couldn´t access a pause menu or return to the title screen. I actually like the effect so much I decided to keep it that way.

[Neon]

The thing is, I'm at a point in both games where if I die before 1-6 in Strikers 2 or 1-3 of DDP, I'll just restart the game because there's far less of a chance of the run being any good after that. I was doing the same thing with Ikaruga, only after I lost the chain, one of the reasons I quit playing that game!

I'm actually sort of looking forward to relearning the different versions. First I'll clear both loops on the Saturn version, then I'll do the same for the PSX version, then the same for PCB...that should keep me busy for I dunno how long.

Then I'll try it with a different plane

[Melf]

I have the Saturn version and it's enough for me. I don't need the most perfect port, especially when it costs as much as it does on PSX.

As for the pioxels. I kind of like that in the explosions. Makes it feel more arcadey.

[Diabollokus]

I just beat the final golden bess boss today on it and all I can say is great feckin game! buy it buy it now!

[The Bullet Dodger]

I have the Saturn version and it's enough for me. I don't need the most perfect port, especially when it costs as much as it does on PSX.

As for the pioxels. I kind of like that in the explosions. Makes it feel more arcadey.

Same for me. I'd love to experience what alot of people are calling "a better port" of DDP on the PSX, but I'm more than satisfied with my Saturn version. And again, when you play it in tate, all comparisons go away. An awesome shmup no matter which platform it's on.

I still think the explosions look better in Donpachi though. Man I miss that game.

[CMoon]

Again, I feel the real differences are probably only significant with Donpachi not Dodonpachi. I doubt it is worth the high prices the PSX Dodonpachi brings--although I do own it and it IS silky smooth and absolutely beautiful. Still, what does psx Dodonpachi sell for these days? $100?

You can get the PSX Donpachi on Playasia for like $30 or something...
Now that is an ABSOLUTE no-brainer!