Sega-16's Complete list of Genney shmups

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:24 pm

8 1/2 wrote:
tehkao wrote:What I like about that site is that after reading it, you realize how much of a joke the "Genesis vs SNES" wars really was. It's so obvious that the Genesis absolutely raped the SNES in almost every possible genre, except MAYBE RPGs.
It's true. I was huge SNES kid when the war was going on, but in the last three or four years it's become clear to me that the Genesis was THE system of that era. SNES had the colors and the RPG's but Genesis was the hardcore kids system of choice then and now. If it came down to it, you could melt my SNES collection to a puddle if it meant keeping even a few of my Genesis games.

What a refreshing thing to read.

I'm just going to drop this link in this thread, since I've been thinking of sharing it for awhile. This was my favorite 'net secret store when I was buying back Genesis games I had sold and wanted them mint (these are genuinely brand new). Many games are now gone (they used to have Burning Force at $15, TF3, Warsong, etc.) and prices have gone up, but there's still a few pretty good deals to be had here and still about 150 games:

http://gamesplus.com/genesis/
A number of shooters there, a few pretty good deals. Some outrageous ones too, but I figure if people are willing to pay $30 for stuff downsized for the GBA...

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:35 pm

Rob wrote:
8 1/2 wrote:
tehkao wrote:What I like about that site is that after reading it, you realize how much of a joke the "Genesis vs SNES" wars really was. It's so obvious that the Genesis absolutely raped the SNES in almost every possible genre, except MAYBE RPGs.
It's true. I was huge SNES kid when the war was going on, but in the last three or four years it's become clear to me that the Genesis was THE system of that era. SNES had the colors and the RPG's but Genesis was the hardcore kids system of choice then and now. If it came down to it, you could melt my SNES collection to a puddle if it meant keeping even a few of my Genesis games.
What a refreshing thing to read.

Putting down the SNES is refreshing? The SNES beats the Genesis in the puzzle, RPG, and fighting genres. The action/platform genre is debatable. The Genesis beats the SNES in the 2D shooting genre, but the SNES does have a decent amout of great 2D shooters. The SNES beats the Genesis when it comes to lightgun games. The SNES has more beat 'em ups and a few good ones, but the Genesis has quality with the first two Golden Axe games and the Streets of Rage series. They are both great systems and I'm glad I support both.

(sports game comment edited out becuase I forgot to take the Japanese only games like Powerful Pro Baseball and the SNES Super Dodge Ball into account. I have no idea which system is better in terms of sports with those taken into account)

tehkao · Post by **tehkao** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:11 pm

Well lemme put it another way...the Genesis beats the SNES in terms of games you actually still want to go back and play 15 years later....

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:12 pm

Putting down the SNES is refreshing?

Sometimes it's fun to see something everyone holds as sacred get trashed. Heh, I bet if I listed out all the 'classic' shmups that suck the list would reach the moon.

SNES gets major props for having megaman X and other capcom goodness...but street fighter 2 got ported to Genesis and soon MMX will be on ps2, so I don't feel the need to buy one.

alpha5099 · Post by **alpha5099** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:30 pm

Melf, if nothing else, your site has convinced me I need to completely pimp out my Genesis. At the very least, I have got to get a Power Base Converter and a Sega CD. And I'll probably break down and buy a 32X, even though I know there are only a couple games worth owning.

Incidentally, does anyone know if there's anything like a Super GameBoy for the Genesis? The GameGear is essentially a SMS, and you can play SMS games on the Genesis, it'd be nice if there was something like a PBC for GG games. Perhaps something like that has been made in HK. I'll look around.

Nei First · Post by **Nei First** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:33 pm

tehkao wrote - "It's so obvious that the Genesis absolutely raped the SNES in almost every possible genre, except MAYBE RPGs."

It wasn't just RPG's the SNES shined in though.

Thing is, It's only when Final Fantasy VII and the "Playstation" RPG''s became so popular, that people started recognising the SNES as the king console for 16bit RPG's.

Before then, the SNES was known and loved for "other non-RPG" style games.

In other words, the SNES was not raped as flawlessly as you might think.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:34 pm

Neon wrote:

Putting down the SNES is refreshing?
Sometimes it's fun to see something everyone holds as sacred get trashed. Heh, I bet if I listed out all the 'classic' shmups that suck the list would reach the moon.

SNES gets major props for having megaman X and other capcom goodness...but street fighter 2 got ported to Genesis and soon MMX will be on ps2, so I don't feel the need to buy one.

I don't find bashing games at someone else's expense funny or humorous. Honestly, I want to see the system bais for any system left on the cutting room floor. I also dislike it when people post incorrect and misleading information and three people in a row agree with that person. It's shameful.

Again, I love my Genesis. Excellent Toaplan ports, Rocket Knight Adventures, the Sonics, the Shinobis, Streets of Rage, Trouble Shooters, Golden Axe, Dynamite Headdy, Contra: Hard Corps, and so much more make it an excellent system.

tehkao · Post by **tehkao** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:50 pm

Hey don't get me wrong, I love the SNES too, but just reading that site you can't help think Genesis has more of the games that hardcore gamers love.

Maybe someone should make site similar to Melf's but for the SNES. Then they can brag about great SNES games like Cybernator, Ninja Warriors, Wild Guns, etc.....to make things more even.

Nei First · Post by **Nei First** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:08 am

Nah it's cool, I love the Gen also. The Phantasy Star series is among some of the best games I've ever played.

Funny, in the short time I've been here i've noticed alot of people here are some happy civilised bunch. Some other forums I belong to, topics like this get ripped apart, usually funny, but with alot of crap said in between.

Melf · Post by **Melf** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:10 am

BrianC wrote:
Extras are extras and the review made it sound like the SEGA collection has no extras at all. I also get the impression that you didn't unlock all of the extras in Fantasy Zone. IMO, it's the gameplay that's important, not the extras anyway. I hardly use the extras in the Midway and Atari collections.

The bonus stages in FZ and the rival mode in OutRun are nice, but I would much rather have had interviews with Yu Suzuki or someone, maybe some arcade artwork and history; something. What would it have cost them to include that kind of stuff? Phantasy Star Collection on Saturn had art galleries, classic video commercials, etc. The extras really added to the sense of history the series had. Isn't that what compilations are supposed to do-empahisize and preserve history?

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:30 am

Melf wrote:
BrianC wrote:
Extras are extras and the review made it sound like the SEGA collection has no extras at all. I also get the impression that you didn't unlock all of the extras in Fantasy Zone. IMO, it's the gameplay that's important, not the extras anyway. I hardly use the extras in the Midway and Atari collections.
The bonus stages in FZ and the rival mode in OutRun are nice, but I would much rather have had interviews with Yu Suzuki or someone, maybe some arcade artwork and history; something. What would it have cost them to include that kind of stuff? Phantasy Star Collection on Saturn had art galleries, classic video commercials, etc. The extras really added to the sense of history the series had. Isn't that what compilations are supposed to do-empahisize and preserve history?

Fantasy Zone has more than just bonus stages.. It has an unlockable model list and some things to buy in challenge mode. Virtua Racing has hidden cars. Alien Syndrome has an unlockable one hit classic mode.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:33 am

BrianC wrote:Putting down the SNES is refreshing?

For most people it goes without saying that the Gen is outclassed, so it's very refreshing to see things said the way I see things.

but the SNES does have a decent amout of great 2D shooters.

It really doesn't, though. It has a small amount and lots of average to crap games. I just got through playing almost all of the SNES shooters I missed, so it's all fresh in my mind. Back to the Genesis praising.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:42 am

Rob wrote:
BrianC wrote:Putting down the SNES is refreshing?
For most people it goes without saying that the Gen is outclassed, so it's very refreshing to see things said the way I see things.

but the SNES does have a decent amout of great 2D shooters.
It really doesn't, though. It has a small amount and lots of average to crap games. I just got through playing almost all of the SNES shooters I missed, so it's all fresh in my mind. Back to the Genesis praising.

That's your opinion and I would appriciate it that you guys wouldn't go up and say stuff like "the SNES doesn't have many good shooters" every time someone says it has some good ones. I also dislike how you take pleasure at someone disliking the SNES. It's a matter of opinion. Disliking a system is one thing, but making fun of people for liking a system or finding pleasure is someone disliking a system is just plain wrong.

Just because you don't like Pop 'n Twinbee, R-Type III, the Parodius games, Macross Scramble Valkyrie, Gradius III, Super Aleste, or Axelay doesn't change the fact that these are well made games that many people like. Look, I don't want to argue, but when you guys keep pushing untrue comments like they are the truth, I think someone should speak up and try to put a stop to it.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:50 am

BrianC wrote: Just because you don't like Pop 'n Twinbee, R-Type III, the Parodius games, Macross Scramble Valkyrie, Gradius III, Super Aleste, or Axelay doesn't change the fact that these are well made games that many people like.

Hey, I do like Parodius (series), Macross, Axelay, Gradius 3 and Space Megaforce. But even if I thought those games are "great" and not just enjoyable/decent it's a small amount of great games. The only shooters I'd consider great are Macross, Bio Metal, Gokujyou/Parodius Da!, maybe Axelay and maybe R-Type 3 since that's the only big one I haven't played through. That's it.

Melf · Post by **Melf** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:55 am

BrianC wrote: Fantasy Zone has more than just bonus stages.. It has an unlockable model list and some things to buy in challenge mode. Virtua Racing has hidden cars. Alien Syndrome has an unlockable one hit classic mode.

Doesn't change my point. Those are great and all, and do a lot to add replay value to already classic titles, but as I said, I would have liked at least some recognition of the arcade heritage Sega has.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:58 am

Melf wrote:
BrianC wrote: Fantasy Zone has more than just bonus stages.. It has an unlockable model list and some things to buy in challenge mode. Virtua Racing has hidden cars. Alien Syndrome has an unlockable one hit classic mode.
Doesn't change my point. Those are great and all, and do a lot to add replay value to already classic titles, but as I said, I would have liked at least some recognition of the arcade heritage Sega has.

Yeah, I know. It's all about the recognition and not about the games now (I'm not necessarily talking about your reviews, but about professional gaming site reviews in general). Interviews and stuff like that are nice, but it shouldn't make or break a collection. Why are you expecting interviews in a collection of Japanese budget games that didn't have them in the first place anyway? Also, it's not a collection meant to preserve the games. It's a collection of updates that, except for Golden Axe, stay true to the originals. They are meant to be updates, not exact representations of the originals.

BTW, I don't consider 10 or 11 games to be a small about of good games. I think it's a fine enough number.

Zigfried the Trizealot · Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:06 am

Ganelon wrote:Did later versions of Fhey Area really say Faeria on the side?

I've had four copies of Fhey Area go through my hands, and none has said Faeria on the side. Two of them were missing a manual page insert though (the one that has one totally blank page, and another page with just a nice full-color picture). Not saying it's untrue, just that I'm skeptical, especially since the Arcus 1-2-3 writeup is completely wrong. Not trying to be a jerk, it's nice to see these games getting some coverage. But still, that part's just wrong. ^_^

The whole Faeria thing (as far as I can tell) was born with the Sega Scribe... the same guy who tried to convince us that Devastator is an R-Type clone. (It's more like Castlevania with some shooter levels.)

//Zig

Melf · Post by **Melf** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:27 am

Exactly what part of the Arcus write up is untrue?

overdrive · Post by **overdrive** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:48 am

Melf

Thanks for the offer. I think I might do that with some of my better reviews. It'll give me a good excuse to proof my Bio Hazard Battle, Curse, Gynoug (Wings of Wor), XDR, etc. reviews again. And maybe an excuse to rewrite my Arrow Flash one and the other couple that were more primitive.

Ganelon

My emulator is DeGen. As for the copy of the ROM, the site I got it from has always been the best as far as overall quality. The thing is, DeGen (which, to my knowledge is the best Genesis emulator a low-grade (OS9) Mac can use) is spotty with its compatibility. For example, Sol-Deace glitches badly, making your ship invisible. In Steel Empire, the ROM skips badly while you're firing rapidly. In Phantasy Star 4, certain enemy designs don't register, causing the game to crash. Other games, like Beyond Oasis and Gunstar Heroes either don't work at all or crash immediately. In other words, I'm convinced it's my emulator. I've had too many games fail in some way to think it's a specific ROM. Even a number of the ones that do work have glitchy sound at times.

DeGen is really a strange emulator. Games like Thunder Force 4 or Ristar work excellently, with no more problems than a bit of sound distortion AND they're top-of-the-line as far as memory requirements.

Melf · Post by **Melf** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:52 am

overdrive wrote:Melf

Thanks for the offer. I think I might do that with some of my better reviews. It'll give me a good excuse to proof my Bio Hazard Battle, Curse, Gynoug (Wings of Wor), XDR, etc. reviews again. And maybe an excuse to rewrite my Arrow Flash one and the other couple that were more primitive.

We only post one review per game, so if there's one already up (like Arrow Flash, for example), then that game's covered. We don't have reviews for Biohazard Battle or XDR though.

tehkao · Post by **tehkao** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:15 am

The SNES has a couple of good shmups, but I think it's generally accepted as "fact" around here that the Genesis has more good shmups....

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:29 am

tehkao wrote:The SNES has a couple of good shmups, but I think it's generally accepted as "fact" around here that the Genesis has more good shmups....

Which is true. I never said the SNES has more. I even said that the Genesis beats the SNES in shmups, but IMO, the SNES still has a decent amount of good shmups. What isn't true is what you said about the Genesis beating the SNES out in every category except for RPGs. Now go read my post again.

tehkao · Post by **tehkao** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:44 am

Ok let's see...

Beat em ups - Ok I might give SNES a slight edge here. Genesis has SOR1-3, but SNES has 2 great TMNT games, 3 decent Final Fight games, the great Batman Returns, and a ton of other mediocre to ok ones.

Puzzlers - Uhhh ok SNES wins if you say so...I don't really care about this genre very much.

Platformers - I think it's about even. You got the Sonics vs the Marios. The DKCs vs the Ristars, Vectorman, etc... but if you include run and guns, Genesis absolutely crushes the SNES. Where is the SNES equivalent of Gunstar Heroes or Alien Soldier?

Lightgun games - people actually played lightgun games on their SNES/Genesis?

Post by **Ghegs** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:03 am

tehkao wrote: Lightgun games - people actually played lightgun games on their SNES/Genesis?

No, they played lightbazooka games.

gigadrive32 · Post by **gigadrive32** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:24 am

I didnt know that Alien Syndrome on Sega Classics Collection has a one hit classic mode, is it like the System 16 arcade original ?

oh and for the person that said that Fire Shark got neglectic, they did in fact have it
http://sega-16.com/Feature-%20Shmups%20 ... za%202.htm

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:26 am

gigadrive32 wrote:I didnt know that Alien Syndrome on Sega Classics Collection has a one hit classic mode, is it like the System 16 arcade original ?

oh and for the person that said that Fire Shark got neglectic, they did in fact have it
http://sega-16.com/Feature-%20Shmups%20 ... za%202.htm

I have no idea. I'll tell you when I unlock it.

gigadrive32 · Post by **gigadrive32** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:55 am

BrianC wrote:
gigadrive32 wrote:I didnt know that Alien Syndrome on Sega Classics Collection has a one hit classic mode, is it like the System 16 arcade original ?

oh and for the person that said that Fire Shark got neglectic, they did in fact have it
http://sega-16.com/Feature-%20Shmups%20 ... za%202.htm
I have no idea. I'll tell you when I unlock it.

kewl, thanks.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:18 pm

Zigfried the Trizealot wrote: The whole Faeria thing (as far as I can tell) was born with the Sega Scribe... the same guy who tried to convince us that Devastator is an R-Type clone. (It's more like Castlevania with some shooter levels.)

Ahh, thanks. I didn't see anything wrong with the spelling myself. "Fhey" should've just been pronounced "fee" and it would've adhered just fine with the kana. I still remember when it was considered being brought over to the US and the title was still Fhey Area.

BTW, great website; got Annet Futatabi after reading it what seems to be years ago.

overdrive wrote: My emulator is DeGen.

I see, well, if you can run Windows stuff through one of those conversion programs, Gens runs the game just fine (AFAIK).

Zigfried the Trizealot · Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:23 pm

Melf wrote:Exactly what part of the Arcus write up is untrue?

Arcus Odyssey wasn't the first installment of Arcus 1-2-3... Arcus Odyssey is an action-adventure with RPG elements. Arcus 1 on Arcus 1-2-3 is a dungeoncrawler RPG, similar to the Bard's Tale. They share some characters, but even the plots are different. The whole goddess of light vs goddess of darkness plot, the locations, and the supporting characters -- like the pirate -- from Arcus Odyssey aren't even in Arcus 1.

The writeup says there's more arcade action than RPG in Arcus 1-2-3. which isn't true. It's a pure RPG -- no action elements. It's got turn-based battles, you can stop and walk away for an hour without pausing because time doesn't pass unless you're moving, it's got dungeons you have to map out on graph paper... it's an RPG.

The plot is called "paper thin" and a testament to the series' "action roots", which seems misleading in two ways. First, there's a lot of philosophy and stuff going on in Arcus 1-2-3... it's pretty blatant. Second, Arcus 1 (from Arcus 1-2-3) actually came out BEFORE Arcus Odyssey on Japanese PC's. The series is rooted in RPG... Odyssey was the action anomaly.

Then the writeup advises playing through Arcus Odyssey to get the gist of what's going on, which won't work because the plots are totally different.

Finally, you don't get to pick from one of several character types (like the short writeup says you can). You ALWAYS start out as the male Jedah, then gain other members to add to your party throughout the quest, because it's an RPG. Including a little boy minstrel who doesn't do much except sing during battle. He rules and actually becomes the hero for episodes 2 and 3!

//Zig

Melf · Post by **Melf** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:42 pm

Really? Hmm, then my source on this one sucked: ? This is what SegaBase has:

Premise: This contains all three of the Arcus Odyssey videogames in one convienent package on CD-ROM. It's your usual hack-and-slash fantasy-themed affair, with you getting to chose from among several different types of male and female warriors in order to do battle with the forces of darkness.

Comments: Short on plot and even shorter on realism, but hey - there's enough arcade action to keep you going for quite a long time.

Rating: 7

Variants: Also known as the Arcus Odyssey Trilogy. The first installment was released earlier for Genesis in cartridge form.

Mind if I use yours then? I want everything to be accurate.