Ketsui dump legality

[Mortificator]

And if you're going to complain about legality, shouldn't you direct it towards the Ketsui PCB owners as well? Cave themselves has an open threat to prosecute them to the full extent of the jam.

[neorichieb1971]

My only concern was that the later games are not getting ported either and the thirst and appetite for those will grow stronger as well. With Ketsui presumably cracked within 6 months and new tricks learnt, it might be a case of cracking those later games rather quickly.

I do think it would be better to try and get a PC licence for the game and sell it as a standalone product. But thats just me.. Carry on!

[pixelcorps]

My only concern was that the later games are not getting ported either and the thirst and appetite for those will grow stronger as well. With Ketsui presumably cracked within 6 months and new tricks learnt, it might be a case of cracking those later games rather quickly.

with the overwhelming response so far to the funds, i doubt it!

- and cave have their own board tech now.. they no longer use PGM.

[Twiddle]

Yeah, it's a really small PCB using a Hitachi 133mhz SH-3.

http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=868

[pixelcorps]

So there you go, no "floodgate for rampant PCB piracy"

- And if you mean any other PGM cave games, they're already ported - it's cheaper to buy a used japanese PS2 and get the game from playasia than go through this rigmarole, trying to rally people to actually do something and getting an ear chewing in the process.

[rtw]

Yeah, it's a really small PCB using a Hitachi 133mhz SH-3.

If you want the hardware details of the SH-3 look here:

http://www.world-of-arcades.net/Cave/Ha ... rdware.htm

rtw

[cody]

people are greedy myopic consumers. end of story

Greedy, you mean like wanting to get an $800 game for $10?

nobody cried "copyright infringement" when I produced the ikaruga tees

As I recall, your ikaruga tees would have at least an argument for fair use - it was your graphic design, and it wasn't a direct substitute for goods Treasure was producing. Probably a losing legal argument, but at least a sliver of moral justification.

What you're consipring to do currently is not only illegal under the dmca ( as I mentioned earlier ), it's clearly a direct substitute for the goods sold by cave.

I can't see what the immediate threat is.

Besides exposing the forum to liability and further harming the reputation of consumers as pirates? How about someone notifying paypal that you're using the account for illegal activities, them locking it (they've done so for far less shady activities), and you having X number of pissed-off buyers on your hands? (not a threat - I'm not enough of an ass to do this, or to contact cave / arika, although it wouldnt surprise me if someone was)

trying to rally people to actually do something and getting an ear chewing in the process.

By "do something", do you mean "get someone else's hard work for less than what it's worth" ? As for ear chewing, if y'all were actually comfortable with the legality and ethicality of what you were doing, there wouldn't be all these ad hominem attacks on the people who are questioning you.

[DJ Incompetent]

What a strange thread-spiral.
I guess there's a little icycalm in all of us...


*scans neo-geo for the next lawl @shmups.com thread*


@pixelcorps
Cut me a name & address if you could. I will send you the cash-monies. I don't roll paypal, so 20th-century payment styles...

[pixelcorps]

Greedy, you mean like wanting to get an $800 game for $10?

umm..

No, we're getting an $800 game for, well.. $800

I think if i say "this is not going to happen for a long while" one more time, i'll puke blood.

What you're consipring to do currently is not only illegal under the dmca ( as I mentioned earlier ), it's clearly a direct substitute for the goods sold by cave.

sold, as in the past tense..

How about someone notifying paypal that you're using the account for illegal activities, them locking it (they've done so for far less shady activities), and you having X number of pissed-off donors on your hands?

jesus christ , get laid.

[GaijinPunch]

There are a few constants at this forum. The "can't have a thread over 5 pages not get completely fucking derailed" is the strongest of them.

[Twiddle]

My anal retentiveness is kicking in and I'm going to have to say that applies only to shmups general and offtopic

Though I'm going to chuckle at the people who haven't forseen this sort of thing after having seen this

[cody]

No, we're getting an $800 game for, well.. $800

That would be true if you were doing what (dave k?) suggested, and starting a"ketsui club" to lend the board out on a legitimate basis (anyone interested?). You very well know that's not what is going on here.

[roker]

By "do something", do you mean "get someone else's hard work for less than what it's worth" ? As for ear chewing, if y'all were actually comfortable with the legality and ethicality of what you were doing, there wouldn't be all these ad hominem attacks on the people who are questioning you.

have you always been a douche?

Less than what's worth?

Is there a real arcade port forthcoming?

NO

Is Cave still selling the PCB?

NO

Is Cave making a cut of the reselling of the PCBs?

NO

Are you a douche?

YES

P.S. In your hesitation to sound "intelligent", you made up the word "ethicality", I can only hope you were making a subtle reference to Mortal Kombat.

It would've been your only saving grace.

[zakk]

Guru/Rom dumpers/mamedev have been at this for years. Sometimes they just get money (which is really no different than this, what do you think those donations are going towards?) sometimes people donate boards (maybe some have pooled money to do this in the past, who knows?). The point is that clearly they are comfortable with whatever legal risk they may or may not be taking. Let them worry about it.

The idea that some sort of legal liability extends to this forum is laughable.

[pixelcorps]

No, we're getting an $800 game for, well.. $800

That would be true if you were doing what (dave k?) suggested, and starting a"ketsui club" to lend the board out on a legitimate basis (anyone interested?). You very well know that's not what is going on here.

well duh -, i'm trying to buy a board to get the contents dumped for future emulation, i'm hiding nothing.

you're unhappy with it, how many more posts will you make before you realise that we KNOW.

If you or anyone else has issues with me/this- take it to PM

[lawnspic]

I wont point fingers, and will try to be indirect. Some or someone here are having some issues with this project. If you are not for this effort then pretend this thread does not exist. I would like to see this thread stay focused. The next person who wants to debate this is surely going to contradict themselves, so quit while your ahead.

[Necronom]

@cody

Why don't you just say what you're really wanna say? It just seems you hate the fact that there might come a time when people can play Ketsui for free while you forked out lots of cash for it. Is this your moral problem?!
Emulation is about "preservation". This aspect is even more important when it comes to rare or abscure games, I would even argue that in some cases it's even more important than US laws pushed mainly by greedy media corporations that would very much like to ban any sale of second hand software and are constantly harassing the consumers with region coding while calling everybody a pirate who might decrease their profit.

[cody]

...
jesus christ , get laid.
...
douche
...

Like I said, ad hominem is the refuge of people who know they're in the wrong.

P.S. In your hesitation to sound "intelligent", you made up the word "ethicality"

Hesitation? I do not think that word means what you think it means. P.S. - Definition of ethicality

The idea that some sort of legal liability extends to this forum is laughable.

I suggest you google the words 'conspiracy copyright infringement'. Add the phrase "internet site" for a real laugh, but probably not the kind you expected. I'm not saying similar outcomes are likely here, but they certainly are possible.

It just seems you hate the fact that there might come a time when people can play Ketsui for free while you forked out lots of cash for it. Is this your moral problem?!

No. The only board I own is esprade. My moral problem has been pretty clearly stated in the thread, but I'll recap (ba-dum bump- ching):

You are conspiring to commit / assist in copyright infringement. This is illegal, and against forum rules. Mods ought to either lock & delete the posts in question, like they do with other posts that break the rules; or clarify the rules to only disallow linking to roms | wares & accept whatever liability comes their way, however unlikely. Really I'd be fine with either, it's the double standard that bugs me.

[roker]

Hesitation? I do not think that word means what you think it means. P.S. - Definition of ethicality

but that still doesn't explain why you have sand in your vagina

[szycag]

Really I'd be fine with either, it's the double standard that bugs me.

leave

[sikraiken]

Both sides of the argument are making their points, there's no need for childish behavior.

Hey roker you're a doodoo head. Same with you Cody. That goes for everyone else in the thread too. :O Boy am I awesome.

And if you're going to complain about legality, shouldn't you direct it towards the Ketsui PCB owners as well? Cave themselves has an open threat to prosecute them to the full extent of the jam.

How did people miss this? Comedy gold.


I'm not putting myself on a side here.

I will say a few things however.

It's too bad the PCB is at the price it's at. It'd be one thing if the money was going to Cave, but that isn't the case.

The game is fairly new and isn't in jeopardy of disappearing forever. Preservation right now doesn't look like it should be too high of a priority. This was said earlier. Let's say you get MAME team to add a driver for this game, but they never officially add the ability to play the game by fixing whatever protection there might be. Would everyone who's saying it's just for preservation be ok with that? The game is still preserved right?

Many people in this thread want to play the game without paying the price that it currently is. Don't beat around the bush, those of you who are.

That said, I would personally play it if it was in MAME, if not only to finally have a chance to try it out. Cave should do a board rerelease, I'd buy one. I'll be buying one eventually anyway.

[neorichieb1971]

I think if your for the Ketsui dump you should refrain from posting in this thread and if your against it you should refrain from posting in that thread.

I think what Cody is visualising is the fact that somewhere down the line someones thread will be deleted for copyright infringements. Then this thread will likely rear its ugly head again

[neorichieb1971]

Note : There are 25 guests on this forum at the time of typing

[jpolz]

You are conspiring to commit / assist in copyright infringement. This is illegal, and against forum rules. Mods ought to either lock & delete the posts in question, like they do with other posts that break the rules; or clarify the rules to only disallow linking to roms | wares & accept whatever liability comes their way, however unlikely. Really I'd be fine with either, it's the double standard that bugs me.

....and you're committing a crime buy owning operating a Galuda board outside of Japan when it is expressly forbidden to do so.

You wanna split hairs? Fine. But don't presume to ridicule everyone else because you have selective morality.

[neorichieb1971]

I have to chip in here.

WTF hasn't got selective morality?

Everyone who has posted in this thread and the other one qualifies for this.

[sfried]

Jesus Christ, lock this thread. Everyone's getting so spazzed up here. (And the reputation lives on...)

And I know of a pal who shares cody's views. Sure, it might have been a thread about Ketsui dumps if nobody tried to morally justify it. But any inquiry as to its legal implications shouldn't be of any harm, provided nobody provides links to any ROMs, dumps, or chips.

[neorichieb1971]

Its politically incorrect to lock this thread.

[Radiant]

Do you guys live in another world???
-dumping roms is illegal
-if someone cares about it is another story....

[Fighter17]

Personally I would wait ten years after a game release before we start talking about ROM dumping a game.

Ketsui is 5 years old correct?

[Keade]

Some games run out of print in 5 years (Ketsui), some others are print for a longer time - some classics are even edited more than ten years later.
5 years or 10 years later, emulating the game without owning it will be equally illegal anyway, won't it ?