Shmup pronounciations, Myths and Legends

J-Manic · Post by **J-Manic** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:09 am

Yeah. I've always pronounced Ninja Gaiden as Gai-den. But if you think about it, aren't those the Americanised pronunciations? Would'nt they be pronounced differently in Japan?

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:19 am

Ee Es Pee Gah Loo Dah.

The people on the Team Fremont news cast actually just say espgaluda as one word. It sounds so funny

I was wondering how many others say it that way?

But yeah, if you know anything about Japanese, there's no question as to how most shooters should be pronounced =P

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:50 am

J-Manic wrote:Yeah. I've always pronounced Ninja Gaiden as Gai-den. But if you think about it, aren't those the Americanised pronunciations? Would'nt they be pronounced differently in Japan?

No.

Die Oy Joy? Die Oo Joo ?

The "Ou" and "Jou" are pronounced like "O" but without the w sound at the end if that makes sense. It'd be easier if you heard it.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:19 am

Die Oh Joe =D

Aquas · Post by **Aquas** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:20 am

shinsage wrote:
Same for Ninja Gaiden.
When I was young I called it Gay-den, it took me years to adjust to Guy-den. I felt broken.

You're not alone.

Krooze L-Roy · Post by **Krooze L-Roy** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:02 am

here are my takes on this topic:

Gradius = Gray-dee-us
Darius = Dare-ee-us
Ikaruga = EE-kuh-roo-guh
Soukyugurentai = So-key-yugaduga (you just gotta wing this one)
Ray Force = Guh-lack-tic-Uh-tack (yeah, that's right

)

But the ones I consider toughies are:

Xexex = Zex-ex
Xexyz = Zee-ziz (kinda like Jesus)

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:20 am

Sou kyoo goo ren tie

Klatrymadon · Post by **Klatrymadon** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:45 am

^ Aye, that's how I say it, but bollocks to this. Let's just call everything Space Invaders.

Edge · Post by **Edge** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:41 pm

Funny thing is from a phoentetic point Japanese and German are quite familiar. Though these languages aren't related in any way. This mainly is because the vocals all sound the same in Japanese and German. Unlike in English, where the a,i,u,e,o is not equivalent to it's Japanese counterparts.

Therefore, I have naturally pronounced most shmup titles right, like Gradius when I was a child. But back then I didn't knew that the Japanese pronounciation is so similiar. I think there are probably more European languages which are more similiar in pronounciation to Japanese than English is.

This thread needs wave sounds...

Post by **Ghegs** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:05 pm

Edge wrote:I think there are probably more European languages which are more similiar in pronounciation to Japanese than English is.

Finnish is one.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 5:31 pm

since JP is a "machine gun language" with every mora evenly stressed.

On gaijin ears, it seems that way, but alas, it is not. Trust me -- I'm corrected all the fucking time by my wife. There are quite a few synonyms that do not requries context to understand... they in fact have different intonation. It's very subtle, but gives non-native speakers WAY more forgiveness.

hiroSHIma and some say hiROshima, and both are considered okay.

Actually, if they're speaking to a Japanese, the hiROshima people are the ones that won't be looked at funny.

Ghegs wrote:
Edge wrote:I think there are probably more European languages which are more similiar in pronounciation to Japanese than English is.
Finnish is one.

Two is Spanish.

Darius = Dare-ee-us

This is one where just about everyone is off. It is actually
Da-ra-i-usu (dah-rah-ee-usu). The romanization is actually wrong if you want to get down to it.

And I think we've talked about Guwange many times before. "goo-wan-gay" is apparently the sound Guwange-sama makes went listened to from afar.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:52 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:This is one where just about everyone is off. It is actually Da-ra-i-usu (dah-rah-ee-usu).

Methinks that's because the title is originally from another language (Persian, I think), and Japanese doesn't have a stand-alone "aye" sound (the "ah-ee" combination is as close as it gets)...in most cases, though, an "I" is pronounced "ee."

And I think we've talked about Guwange many times before. "goo-wan-gay" is apparently the sound Guwange-sama makes went listened to from afar.

Wouldn't the "gay" be more of a "geh," at least technically? I'm not trying to challenge you or anything here, that's just what I'd have guessed from my own limited knowledge of Japanese...you probably know of some pronunciation rule that I don't.

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:37 pm

Point: Japanese has five vowel sounds, it's not that hard!

Japanese doesn't have a stand-alone "aye"

「あい」?

Pirate1019 · Post by **Pirate1019** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:03 pm

EatenByGrues wrote:Hey how do you pronounce Dai Ou Jou?

Die Oy Joy? Die Oo Joo ?

I always pronounced it Die-ow-jow. Not sure if it's right but sounds correct enough to my american ears.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:52 pm

GaijinPunch wrote: On gaijin ears, it seems that way, but alas, it is not. Trust me -- I'm corrected all the fucking time by my wife.

I see; I guess I'd need some advanced JP training to get some of the subtle differences.

Actually, if they're speaking to a Japanese, the hiROshima people are the ones that won't be looked at funny.

Well yeah, translated to western syllables, then certain parts of a word definitely seem to be stressed. So stuff like ee-KAH-roo-gah and GAH-reh-gah sound much more accurate to the original JP than ee-kah-ROO-gah and gah-REH-gah, even though there technically isn't supposed to be a stressed point.

Krooze L-Roy · Post by **Krooze L-Roy** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:37 am

All this talk of Japanese.

Two words:
whatever.

Some knowledge of the Japanese language doesn't override the fact that you're speaking in English. I found it hard to stifle my laugh when I asked for Castle Shikigami 2 at a game store and the clerk repeated/corrected me, saying the name "properly," as if we were in the middle of Japan. I kinda felt like saying "domo arigato, smug dickhead-kun."
I also find it funny when newscasters try their damndest to pronounce the names of Middle Eastern cities "correctly." It's always a real strain, like they'd been practicing it for a half hour prior.

Stuff should be pronounced either a)the way it sounds coolest, or b)however's easiest.

I can just hear half the people on the board say to themselves "typical American."

Klatrymadon · Post by **Klatrymadon** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:50 am

I agree. It isn't about respecting the game's origin or the Japanese language - it's largely borne of a know-it-all's desire to imperiously belittle and admonish people. It's interesting that the real authorities on Japanese at this forum never feel the need to storm threads like this, all guns blazing...

My response to the Shikigami guy would have probably been an enervated "have a wank".

Nuke · Post by **Nuke** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:05 am

Gay arise, Dime a ho.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:44 am

BulletMagnet wrote: Wouldn't the "gay" be more of a "geh," \

Yeah, just thought it would be easier to understand that way. That, and I love writing the word "gay". I just can't get enough of it.

I see; I guess I'd need some advanced JP training to get some of the subtle differences.

Well, not necessarily. I passed the JLPT1 this past year, and I still suck at it. Most of the time context will override very, very subtle differences. For most young people, it's not an issue. I get the deer in the headlights from my mother-in-law from time to time though.

Methinks that's because the title is originally from another language (Persian, I think), and Japanese doesn't have a stand-alone "aye"

Probably. There really are no set rules for this stuff though... only loose standards adopted by Japanese scholars and anime dorks.

「あい」?

That's not a standalone sound. It's two sounds.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:01 am

GaijinPunch wrote:
since JP is a "machine gun language" with every mora evenly stressed.
On gaijin ears, it seems that way, but alas, it is not. Trust me -- I'm corrected all the fucking time by my wife. There are quite a few synonyms that do not requries context to understand... they in fact have different intonation. It's very subtle, but gives non-native speakers WAY more forgiveness.

This is because Japanese has pitch accent, not stress. Pitch accent has two components: locus and register. Locus is the lexically determined fall from High to Low pitch in a word, also known as the "accent". Register is whether the word starts with a Low or High pitch. There are lots of words in Japanese that only differ in their pitch accent, making them sound like homophones to untrained gaijin ears, but quite distinct to native Japanese. For example in the Tokyo dialect JP kiru 'to cut' is High-Low, while JP kiru 'to come' is Low-High.

The pitch accent is different in every major dialect region. Some dialect regions only have Register (like Kagoshima), some only Locus (like Tokyo), others have both components (Kyoto). I'm referring to lexically defined characteristics here, for example while Tokyo does not have register, there is still a contrast between Low and High (all words start Low unless the first syllable is accented), however since it's only based on the locus, it's not an independent register characteristic. Northern Chiba, Ibaraki, and Miyagi lack both locus and register, they are often called "accentless" dialects. All words are either Low-High(-High, etc) or High-Low(-Low, etc) in these dialects.

Oh, and in case you're wondering pitch accent is different from stress in that it only involves a change in pitch. Stress involves at least a change in intensity (=loudness) of a syllable, usually also a change in pitch, and often also a third component which is an increased duration of the syllable (some stress-based languages, like Finnish, do not have the duration component to the same degree as other languages like English). Historically, pitch accent systems arise in a somewhat similar way as tonal systems like Chinese.

ROBOTRON · Post by **ROBOTRON** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:59 pm

Whats the correct way to say:

"Soukyugerentai" ?

never mind

nem · Post by **nem** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:03 pm

Krooze L-Roy wrote:I found it hard to stifle my laugh when I asked for Castle Shikigami 2 at a game store and the clerk repeated/corrected me, saying the name "properly," as if we were in the middle of Japan. I kinda felt like saying "domo arigato, smug dickhead-kun."

I laughed.

Veracity · Post by **Veracity** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:26 pm

FRO wrote:Some of the other names (like Mushi) I wouldn't attempt because I'd probably butcher them beyond all recognition.

'In-sect Prin-cess'.

Ikarumba wins the thread.

It's true claiming katakana renditions are the only meaningful reference point is silly, but I think it equally makes sense to defer to them when there's no obvious way to make sense of an otherwise ambiguous romanization. Assuming you care about identifying a 'correct' pronunciation at all, anyway.

A related, but (imo) often more interesting question is what names mean/where they came from. Is Gradius really just 'Gladius' via an Engrish filter, for instance? I've always pronounced it as such without giving it a second thought, but don't know if that's the actual origin.

I half-hesitate to ask, but how can you significantly mispronounce 'shikigami' in the first place? On a vaguely related note, why was 'shikigami' just transliterated for localization? I'm sure 'familiar' isn't perfect by any means, but I would've thought its English connotation is similar enough to be considered a bearable translation. Maybe they thought 'Familiar Castle' or some such wouldn't make much sense, now I think about it. Mind you, I have no idea whether 式神の城 makes much sense, either.

Krooze L-Roy · Post by **Krooze L-Roy** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:36 am

Veracity wrote:
I half-hesitate to ask, but how can you significantly mispronounce 'shikigami' in the first place?

I'm sure I probably said something like "Sheik-a-gaw-me." Granted, that's not how it should be said, I'm well aware of that. I also usually pronounce Raiden "Ray-den" though I know that's incorrect. It's not that I'm trying to sound ignorant, I just see little need to pronouce the name of a video game as if it's my boss's last name or something.

I mean, if I'd made some effort to pronounce it right, that would have been one thing. Then a little clarification would have been helpful. But I was clearly unwilling to go beyond the limits of typical English standards of inflection and pronunciation, yet the dude just couldn't resist showing me the fact that he'd taken a Japanese 1 course. It was the linguistic equivalent of flashing a Rolex, only... lamer.

More than anything though, it was his holier-than-thou attitude that got to me. It was almost like he was trying to be comical, like some SNL sketch of a rude French waiter who gets infuriated when you order "saw-vignon blank." He treated me like a rich politician would treat a black guy speaking ebonics; like he could just barely understand me, and had to use his superior intellect to decipher my cryptic dummy-speak.

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:35 am

Code: Select all

"Soukyugerentai"

It's "Soukyugurentai," or "Soukyuugurentai" to be more precise but no one calls it that.

so, "Q", goo, ren, tie

That's close enough.

Of course the "r" sound isn't going to be correct, but I'm too stupid to be able to explain it. I'm sure there's a sound clip you can listen to somewhere.

Randorama · Post by **Randorama** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:48 am

I demand IPA fonts, now!

Klatrymadon · Post by **Klatrymadon** » Sat May 19, 2007 10:36 am

Sorry about the thread necromancy, but I've just remembered that Gradius Gaiden's voice actor says "Gruh-DEE-us". This is a pronunciation I refuse to accept!

Randorama · Post by **Randorama** » Sat May 19, 2007 11:15 am

In fact Gradius is an latinish form of Gladius (the romans' basic sword). The original word should be pronounced /Gla:.dius/ , and I suppose /'Gra.dius/ in Japanese.

Klatrymadon · Post by **Klatrymadon** » Sat May 19, 2007 12:19 pm

Aye, that's precisely why "Gra-DEE-us" is daft.

Iaspis · Post by **Iaspis** » Sat May 19, 2007 1:15 pm

Cho Ren Sha?
Cho Ren Shya?
Cho Ren Sya?
Cho Ren Shay?
Cho*?
Choo*?
Chau*?

Help..