Dodonpachi Daioujou a Game Made in Hell

Cyarc · Post by **Cyarc** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:06 pm

I have been having alot of troubles with DDP DOJ, easily the hardest shooter I own because if I'm lucky I will get to stage 4 and then after that I will die very quickly. Mushi and ESPGaluda are alot easier for me.

Valgar · Post by **Valgar** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:21 pm

You can use a hyper, then cancel it with a bomb and the rank will not increase. Use this method, along with picking shotia (is she the one with 5 bomb stocks?) and type B if you can handle being slower.

Again, mentioned before, but herd bullets...just slowly tap to the left or right of the screen. When you reach the end, slip through a gap of bullets. If not possible, use a HYPER or bomb...You can beat the entire 5th level just doing that method probably.

At parts where the screen gets covered, there is usually a large enemy conveniently placed that will clear the screen of bullets (stage 3...large space stations).

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:56 am

@Valgar: Kind of like the third stage in DDP =D I was always wondering how I'd get through that part with all the green ships that teleport in and spray pink shit everywhere without bombing until I noticed that the big yellow ships clear the screen of bullets. Which means you only have to do a bit of weaving at the end, and it's entirely doable; even for the likes of me ^_^

@stratos: Or I could just play for 1cc, have fun with the game (as it is an awesome game, even without chaining). And while I learn the game playing for survival, I'll pick up things about spots that are hard to chain, and how to possibly do them right, as well as general memorization of the game. Which will make learning how to chain a lot more fun and a lot less frustrating in the end. You don't have to be some die-hard score nazi to pick up DDP: DOJ and have tons of fun with it. Also, I was already planning on picking up Batsugun, don't see why I'd have to sell my copy of DOJ =/

stratos · Post by **stratos** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:33 am

while I learn the game playing for survival, I'll pick up things about spots that are hard to chain, and how to possibly do them right, as well as general memorization of the game. Which will make learning how to chain a lot more fun and a lot less frustrating in the end.

Yes, this is what I wanted to say: I really like to chain so my plays are extremely focused on chaining techniques and survival at the same times, but I think that the general and gradual memorization of the game it's the key to avoid frustration: I was one of those fanatics of the practice mode and it didn't do for me, I gave up with DOJ and Ibara in frustration.

But when I returned on these games with a new, more gradual approach, I definitely got more fun and better results. However I know people that really like so much to play the game practicing stages separately in practice mode, but I think these games are disigned to be played in the arcades, in wich you can't acces practice mode or save your current state like in mame, so it coul'd be thought ads a possibly wrong method of play.

Good luck with your DOJ runs, I'm currently playing Ibara but I will return on this wonderfil game; I managed to perfectly chain the feirst two stages and the first half of the third, then survive till the half of the fourth, and I think that in future I coul'd become a good DOJ first loop player.

Hope to battle with you in the future on the scoreboards topics

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Wolf44 · Post by **Wolf44** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:02 pm

I am still pretty new to the hardcore 1cc/1LC side of shmups but I did play gradius and r-type back in the arcades.

Anyway I decided to order this game on a whim, as I wanted a change from Gradius V and Final. I had read at a few places this game was just brutal etc, but after playing it the last few days I am finding it a hell of alot of fun, have not touched any other game since and I am doing what I can to learn each lvl and the bullet patterns.

From my point of view I really do think this game is quite noob friendly, after a few tries and remembering larger enemies and patterns, I have been able to 1cc it to half way point of stage 3 on normal, I have learned that it is better to strafe from the sides of the screen alot and to not be afraid to go head first into they bigger waves, going through some of these stages once you get over the curtain comedy is not so bad.

I can kil the first two boss fights with 2 ships, sometimes I can kill the first one without dying but I need to work on this part alot more. Ranking and chaining is a whole other matter though, something I will tackle at a later point^^

I tried stage 1 on very hard mode to see how bad it was, while there IS alot more bullets it is certainly not impossible with enough tries, 1CCing obviously would take some dedication and alot of practice and memory, but no way is this game as bad as what people have said, in fact I think alot of areas in GV are way more brutal but thats just me.

Can't wait to get and play more cave titles, these seem really addicting and I love verticle shmups way more, I just find I can pick them up and play enjoy them better than hor ones.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:08 am

Do your survival run up through chapter 3, then go pop in your replay DVD (yours did come with one yes? If not, try to find some super-plays online somewhere), and pay attention to how much rank affects things when you chain and use hypers etc. This game is hailed as one of the hardest shooters ever for a reason. Also... Chapter 3 is when it REALLY starts to get hard. I was making it to Chapter 3 within my first handful of plays, but I think it would take me a fair bit of time to be able to get to Chapter 4 even semi-consistantly.

It IS a very fun game though =D And I can understand where you're coming from on not thinking it's not so bad. I thought the same thing at first when a friend showed it to me. Thinking "Hell, even I can make it through Chapter 3 with a little work." Haha, how funny I was looking back at myself =D Also, with a bit more experience in shooters under my belt, even Chapter 1 and 2 of DDP: DOJ, while not exactly super tough, are much more difficult than your average first two stages in any other shooter.

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:32 am

The really crushing thing about DOJ is that the better you get at it, the harder it kicks your ass.

A very satisfying game though - the first time you chain stage 1 is a great feeling, and doing it still gives a sense of achievement after hours of playing it.

Wolf44 · Post by **Wolf44** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:38 am

@Arv

Oh believe me I understand that the chaining/rank aspect and hyper speeding up the enemy bullets creates a whole new challenge. That is something I plan to learn next once I can 1lc stage 1 and 2 with my eyes closed, that is where I am going to be frustrated hahaha.

What I was getting at is there is a few schools of shmups players, the noobs, the people who are trying to finish the game and improve their skill to a more pro level and then the rest of them, the score freaks and the 1cc/1lc players, different challenges for each person and different fun to be found and had.

So from a pure survival pov, I think DDP DOJ is quite friendly till about stage 3 but even then it should not be too insane for even the casual shmuper, I can make it through stage 3 with dying once on normal on a good run, on a bad run I normaly die 2-3 times, in fact where I normaly die is around the half way point in stage 3 but after that I am ok.

For example my goal at this point is to try and finish the first loop with 2 credits, I think that is a decent goal to set for a player like me, after that I would then concentrate on improving my rank as best I can, that way I would know most of the patterns and boss fights while learning a new and much harder aspect of the game while still being able to enjoy it.

I would for sure plug this and gradius v for new players, both are very nice looking with some unique music, play style and fun themes with enough challenges to please both new and hardened players alike imo.

Now I want Ibara and Mushi badly!

Yea I checked out the DVD superplay, I thought it was pretty cool and really like the music on it although I dunno so much about the enlarged window boxes, something I don't get though and I only watched it once, what is up with the super replay features that are pre recorded on the game itself vs the dvd ? is this the same player and these are done in chapter like options or what ?

And Death Label HAHAHAHAHA I can only make it to the third boss, with using alot of bombs of course:p

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:45 am

Gradius 5 is quite good, and very accessible, yes. But I honestly suggest ESPgaluda over DDP: DOJ for anyone who isn't already a HUGE fan of the genre. Everyone's always saying how accessible ESP is, and they're right. It's Cave's easiest shooter to go through playing for survival, but still is no walk in the park, and going for score makes things slightly more interesting, but still isn't half as dangerous or difficult as it is in many shooters. It's also fairly intuitive as to how to improve your score and figure out your own scoring techniques, what spots are better to use the kakusei mode and whatnot. Plus it's just a really cool and really fun game. ^_^

sffan · Post by **sffan** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:19 pm

I've been playing DOJ since 2003 and I still enjoy it BECAUSE it's so hard. A perpetual challenge is a good thing.

stratos · Post by **stratos** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:05 am

Now I want Ibara and Mushi badly!

If you can't clear the first two stages in DOJ even without chaining I really suggest you to not even dream about playing Ibara; speaking about Mushi, some people find it easier than DOJ, but it's a hard game itself though. So, I encourage you to stay back from DOJ for a while and enjoy Espgaluda (if you like manics) or Gradius (busy screen at times but basilar score system) as Arvandor suggested.

Espgaluda it's really easy to be played for survival because you have the kakusei mode. You can play normally the easier parts of the game to collect gems (that feed the kakusei timer) end use the kakusei in tough spots. Kakusei solwdoens bulletts, so you can dodge them easier, and plus you enjoy auto-barrier in this mede. Also, you have many charges of manual barrier, and enemy attack patterns are easy to read and navigate through.

And the fun is big

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:27 pm

this game aint so hard

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:40 am

Hah, finally managed to watch that French documentary on shmups. Even the ledgendary SWY doesn't care about score until he can 1cc a shooter -_^ Yet score is the biggest thing with him in shooters.

Soldato J · Post by **Soldato J** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:31 pm

I love this game, but it hates me

stratos · Post by **stratos** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:08 am

Soldato J wrote:I love this game, but it hates me

Yeah, I think the same thing about Battle Garegga

However, I had much luck with DOJ

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:59 am

Valgar wrote:You can use a hyper, then cancel it with a bomb and the rank will not increase.

What are the specifics to this? If you have multiple hypers, will it cancel into a bomb, or just use a second hyper, and if it uses the second hyper, will it increase rank? Or can you still bomb out of the second hyper to no ill effect? Also, how quickly does it have to be done? Can you let the hyper run most of its course then bomb without having rank go up? This could be HUGE in helping me 1cc it, which I'd like to do before I go for score (when I start putting time into this anywyas -_^)

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:41 pm

Arvandor wrote:What are the specifics to this? If you have multiple hypers, will it cancel into a bomb, or just use a second hyper, and if it uses the second hyper, will it increase rank?

If you have multiple hypers, they're all used at once: their effect on the chain meter is greater the more you have, but IIRC so is their effect on the rank.

Can you let the hyper run most of its course then bomb without having rank go up?

I would guess that as long as you cancel it before it runs out it'll work, but someone else probably knows for sure.

Kaede · Post by **Kaede** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:13 pm

BulletMagnet wrote:
Arvandor wrote:What are the specifics to this? If you have multiple hypers, will it cancel into a bomb, or just use a second hyper, and if it uses the second hyper, will it increase rank?
If you have multiple hypers, they're all used at once: their effect on the chain meter is greater the more you have, but IIRC so is their effect on the rank.

Can you let the hyper run most of its course then bomb without having rank go up?
I would guess that as long as you cancel it before it runs out it'll work, but someone else probably knows for sure.

Ah, this is good to know. I had a quick read of the FAQ but didn't pick up on this...cheers.

Valgar · Post by **Valgar** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:21 pm

Arvandor wrote:
Valgar wrote:You can use a hyper, then cancel it with a bomb and the rank will not increase.
What are the specifics to this? If you have multiple hypers, will it cancel into a bomb, or just use a second hyper, and if it uses the second hyper, will it increase rank? Or can you still bomb out of the second hyper to no ill effect? Also, how quickly does it have to be done? Can you let the hyper run most of its course then bomb without having rank go up? This could be HUGE in helping me 1cc it, which I'd like to do before I go for score (when I start putting time into this anywyas -_^)

If you have multiple hypers it uses all of them at once. If you hit an enemy normaly it would be x1 but with 5 hypers it is x5 for every hit (I believe).

The more hypers you use at once the worse the rank increase is.

Yes, you can bomb at anytime to cancel the hyper and it will cancel the rank increase as well.

You can see now that if you take my advice a 1cc is not as hard.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:29 pm

Not AS hard no, but even knowing this, DDP: DOJ is still no pushover shooter. Still harder than most in fact.

Soldato J · Post by **Soldato J** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:34 pm

Arvandor wrote:Not AS hard no, but even knowing this, DDP: DOJ is still no pushover shooter. Still harder than most in fact.

I was just chuckling to myself....man, this is good to know but it makes no difference to how badly this game owns me

MovingTarget · Post by **MovingTarget** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:35 pm

Despite how hard this game is it is a blast to play, I love it. It is a beatable game, but there is so much to learn that it can take a very VERY long time to do it. Well by beatable I'm not including the very nuts final final boss.

Both espgaluda and mushi are obviously easier, both 1 loop for a start(I think anyway, I just received mushi yesterday) While I have only played mushi for a short time I can tell I'm going to have a lot more trouble with it than Espgaluda because of the bullet speeds. The faster bullets just take me offguard all the time. Plus the rougher graphics and trying to find the hitbox in 'complicated' moments of play is tricky. Fun though, which other modes in mushi are worth putting some time into if I like slower but more?

Soldato J · Post by **Soldato J** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:00 pm

Love the avatar moving target

Cyarc · Post by **Cyarc** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:10 pm

MovingTarget wrote:Both espgaluda and mushi are obviously easier, both 1 loop for a start(I think anyway, I just received mushi yesterday) While I have only played mushi for a short time I can tell I'm going to have a lot more trouble with it than Espgaluda because of the bullet speeds. The faster bullets just take me offguard all the time. Plus the rougher graphics and trying to find the hitbox in 'complicated' moments of play is tricky. Fun though, which other modes in mushi are worth putting some time into if I like slower but more?

I love arrange mode on mushi so give that a try if you have the ps2 version. It is alot of fun and you realize you can dodge alot of the patterns because you don't have to worry to bomb.

MovingTarget · Post by **MovingTarget** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:41 pm

Cheers Soldato!

And thanks Cyarc too, I wonder are the bullets slower too... because thats the main thing about original which keeps me from getting too far. Yet.....

Kaede · Post by **Kaede** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:05 pm

Maniac mode feels more like how Mushi should have been made. I mean, the patterns and bullet speed in Original mode are more like a Psikyo game, Maniac mode has slower swarms of Cave style bullets. But yeah great game.

MovingTarget · Post by **MovingTarget** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:19 pm

I just tried maniac and arrange. Maniac is more enjoyable than original for me, and arrange is just a blast. Like with Espgaluda's arrange mode its like its been designed just to up the fun factor. Good for post work blues

Kaede wrote:But yeah great game.

Damocles · Post by **Damocles** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:12 am

So this and Espgaluda arrived earlier this week, but I've only gotten around to playing them today. I was expecting Galuda to be the one that clicked with me, but it's this one. It really does seem like the entire game is a dance, and if you die it's your own damn fault for not being in the right place at the right time. I didn't even get this feeling from the earlier games in the series. There is something odd, though... I've been reaching stage 4, with a high-score of 12 million-something, yet I appear to be getting an inordinate amount of extra lives. I was expecting the obligatory gimme at the beginning, yet I think I burned through five or six before the run was over.

lawnspic · Post by **lawnspic** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:45 am

Out of all the Cave ps2 ports i find this the easiest. The patterns are easier to navigate and the bullets are easy to see as well. Esp i would say second for me, then mushi, last Ibara. Ibara is most difficult IMO, due to blurry graphics, debris, and the small bullets. Plus the patterns are harder. Out of all of them, i like D.O.J. the best, and who ever said it was not cheap is right. Great game

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:51 am

ESPgaluda is INSANELY easier than DOJ, trust me. The comparison is just ridiculous. It's like, white and black.