bobrocks95 wrote:As I learned from someone else in this thread, http://arcadecup.com/ has them available under the Misc section. I would say that's a very minor convergence problem though, so it may not be possible to get just right- then again, I'm no expert and it can't hurt.
Oh, thanks!
I'll try them. Hope I can get them to work. Maybe cutting them smaller will help somehow... I'll experiment when I get them.
wyatt8740 wrote:I kinda think some of us are hipsters because we praise trinitrons above all - ignoring that some other shadow mask TV's are extremely good, but following the crowd who thinks trinitrons are the only CRT's worth preserving (see the other quote).
I have another broadcast monitor, a panasonic-branded shadow mask one. Model number is BT-H1390YN. Here's how A Link to the Past looks over RGB on it (again, click image for full size): http://i.imgur.com/2XhT67o.jpg
I actually think this looks closer to an arcade CRT than my 20L5 (which still looks awesome in it's own way, I will not deny that. Click image to see full size): http://i.imgur.com/R2JtydN.jpg
I'll admit the size difference may play a role. However, I really really think that shadow masks get a bad rap because a lot of cheapo manufacturers made shadow mask TV's. But that doesn't mean there cannot be nice ones.
Note that the second image was taken later in my quest, as evidenced by the shield and the Titan's Glove on Link's hand.
I picked up a 20" Ikegami TM20-80R with a manu. date of 2005 recently. It's a shadow mask with a very curved tube, but it's got a certain style and charm to it that reminds me of the arcades.
The Trinitron Hype is mostly due to the fact that they're the easiest to identify and source I believe. Sony showered the world with its crt displays.
It's not like everyone has enough free time and space to hunt down and source many models from all brands and compare.
The world could really use a purely CRT-dedicated international website and community though, centralizing all the knowledge, useful info and people. *dreaming*
@wyatt8740
Sony sets get the most attention for sure. And I agree that we see the term "PVM" tossed around alot in the community nowadays.
Lots of those people don't seem to know that other brands made pro monitors.
But to be fair, Sony do make reference CRT pro monitors, so that's a good reason for them to be mentionned a lot. it's not like they don't deserve the attention.
I myself really like the feel of shadowmask displays. it just screams arcade to me.
wyatt8740 wrote:I'll admit the size difference may play a role. However, I really really think that shadow masks get a bad rap because a lot of cheapo manufacturers made shadow mask TV's. But that doesn't mean there cannot be nice ones.
BazookaBen wrote:Yeah, I think I might like the shadow mask look better for low-res games, but what companies made pro-level shadow mask displays? Maybe the JVC's?
BazookaBen wrote:Yeah, I think I might like the shadow mask look better for low-res games, but what companies made pro-level shadow mask displays? Maybe the JVC's?
NEC for sure. And Mitsubishi.
Huh? You sure about that? Didn't both NEC and Mitsubishi have Diamondtron tubes, which are basically identical to the aperture grille on the Trinitron? I'm 100% sure that's the case with NEC and Mitsubishi PC monitors.
BazookaBen wrote:Yeah, I think I might like the shadow mask look better for low-res games, but what companies made pro-level shadow mask displays? Maybe the JVC's?
NEC for sure. And Mitsubishi.
Huh? You sure about that? Didn't both NEC and Mitsubishi have Diamondtron tubes, which are basically identical to the aperture grille on the Trinitron? I'm 100% sure that's the case with NEC and Mitsubishi PC monitors.
Ah didn't know you were speaking about PC monitors.
I was speaking about their big-ass professional presentation displays : Nec XM/XP/XVs and Mitsubishi Megaviews. those use shadowmasks.
BazookaBen wrote:Yeah, I think I might like the shadow mask look better for low-res games, but what companies made pro-level shadow mask displays? Maybe the JVC's?
Pretty sure most of them are shadow mask displays, besides Sony. (JVC, NEC, Mitsubishi, Ikegami, etc.)
cfx wrote:While this is true, it's not true for all of their monitors. Mitsubishi licensed tech from Sony I believe and made the Diamondtron tubes, but they made PC monitors before that, and even afterwards I don't think those tubes were used in less expensive models; I may be wrong about that part. NEC didn't have such tubes until they merged their monitor business with Mitsubishi.
I don't recall the model numbers now, but I'm fairly sure there were 19" or 20" NEC PC monitors, early multiscan models, that supported 15kHz as well as 31kHz and above.
I know I'm wrong but thinking about it, I can't think of any professional mitsubishi sets outside of the really big stuff. Did they make any 14-20" professional models to compete in the PVM/BVM segment?
There's actually a bit of ambiguity about whether Diamondtron was licensed from Sony at Wikipedia, but given the timing it looks like they just waited for the patent to expire. I also don't really think that Sony would have been interested in licensing the tech before that date.
They simply waited for the patent to expire. JVC/Panasonic did the same thing with their pro line of monitors as well. The dt-v1910cg and dt-v1710cg were aperture grille monitors. All tubes that were not made by Sony prior to their patent on the aperture grille expiring were shadowmask CRT's. This is why there were no other aperture grille CRT's other than trinitrons prior to the very late 90's/early 2000's (i don't remember exactly when it expired).
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Mentioned a few pages back I will recap my Deflector board on my bvm 20f. Well I replaced the surfaced mounted ones first and have had a an improvement with the geometry and H convergence some what. I still have problems with the bulging issue, like the screen goes over a finger on the left side. As regards to the issue with a thicker red raster lines on the left side, I kinder fixed it with the DF settings, i played with them after the recap and they seemed to respond more now. So my display is sharper and clearer, yayayay.
Now im gonna eventually buy in tons of caps and recap the rest on the board. Have also ordered some magnet strips for convergence in the corners.
Can anyone give any information on how I can fix the bulging issue (scrolling goeing over a finger phenomenon)? hopefully a full re-cap will help, or I'm evern wondering if the power supply needs some attention.
Would re-capping the board with R,G,B,Sync inputs on help anything? Kinder of enjoy doing these projects..lol
Skips wrote:They simply waited for the patent to expire. JVC/Panasonic did the same thing with their pro line of monitors as well. The dt-v1910cg and dt-v1710cg were aperture grille monitors. All tubes that were not made by Sony prior to their patent on the aperture grille expiring were shadowmask CRT's. This is why there were no other aperture grille CRT's other than trinitrons prior to the very late 90's/early 2000's (i don't remember exactly when it expired).
As I thought. This is yet another case of people just writing crap into the Wiki without knowing...lol
Well, that might be true. But the Wiki page on Aperture Grille repeats that information, without a source, which is not how Wiki is supposed to work.
It might be that Sony licensed trade secrets related to their Trinitron production process to those other companies, rather than the Trinitron design itself. The idea behind the Trinitron process doesn't seem too difficult; it's actually turning that into a production process which looks difficult. I don't see a source within the article, but this says as much: http://www.utsandiego.com/uniontrib/200 ... 0sony.html
Even after its patent expired, Sony still managed to milk millions out of the Trinitron design – in part by licensing its complex manufacturing techniques to other producers.
Hi guys, so I now own a BVM D20F1U. 1 question I have right off the bat is do I need to set resolution? So, to elaborate on what I mean here is an example: why is it when I turn on my Sega Genesis (that is connected via scart to bnc to the stock analog board on the BVM with 75ohm resisitors on each output) on the lower left hand side the BVM displays 480/60i (once the system is powered on and this replaces the NO SYNC text). Shouldn't this be 240/60p?
I'm noticing the same when my Dreamcast is hooked up. I'm using an Emotia 580ix that Fudoh recommended for utilizing VGA signal. Should this be 480/60p?
I browsed the manual for a bit with a friend and noticed this is the Matrix signal? I noticed 240p isn't even listed.. But since my Genesis games are playing with scanlines, and my Dreamcast games are not but with very sharp picture, do I just discount this little message and assume its all just being done in the background anyway automatically? I can post pics of my setup if need be.
240p is not an official resolution, so you would not see any mention of it. It is something akin to a hack, and it uses the same timing as 480i@60, so it is recognized as such. But don't worry, it is displayed correctly.
Only thing you need to manually set on those displays is RGB/Component and whether you use external sync or not. The rest is automatic.
kamiboy wrote:240p is not an official resolution, so you would not see any mention of it. It is something akin to a hack, and it uses the same timing as 480i@60, so it is recognized as such. But don't worry, it is displayed correctly.
Only thing you need to manually set on those displays is RGB/Component and whether you use external sync or not. The rest is automatic.
I managed to get a JVC DT-V1910CG with only 1400 hours earlier this week. Thing is in amazing condition. Picture quality its damn close to a BVM-20F1U and the scanlines are just as thick too. It does not quite have the bright screen as the BVM so you do have to turn contrast up a bit to get it near it. Colors are amazing as well. The JVC supports HD over component, VGA, as well as older 240p/480i based consoles.
Only oddball thing I have found with it is unless I feed it composite video with the SNES mini the sync has a bit of a wobble to it. Cool thing is the monitor does not pick up the diagonal cross hatching most PVM's/BVM's show when using composite video as sync. Ghosting on the SNES mini is also so faint on this monitor that I have only vaguely seen it once. When I had a 20F1U it could be seen clearly.
All around It is probably the second or third best monitor I have ever had in my possession (the 20F1U beats it by a tad and the 20E1U beats it by a large margin). It also does not have that distortion on the sides of the screen you see on flat tube consumer sets. The dampening wires are also hardly visible at all in 240p.
You might have to view the second screenshot in full sized for it to look right.
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Hey Skips nice monitor. I have the 17 inch version on that monitor but the rgb card is really hard to find for cheap.
Anybody that comes across this monitor should make sure that it has an rgb card.
And what I like best about these JVC monitors is that they are a lot easier on the back.
Skips wrote:I managed to get a JVC DT-V1910CG with only 1400 hours earlier this week. Thing is in amazing condition. Picture quality its damn close to a BVM-20F1U and the scanlines are just as thick too. It does not quite have the bright screen as the BVM so you do have to turn contrast up a bit to get it near it. Colors are amazing as well. The JVC supports HD over component, VGA, as well as older 240p/480i based consoles.
Only oddball thing I have found with it is unless I feed it composite video with the SNES mini the sync has a bit of a wobble to it. Cool thing is the monitor does not pick up the diagonal cross hatching most PVM's/BVM's show when using composite video as sync. Ghosting on the SNES mini is also so faint on this monitor that I have only vaguely seen it once. When I had a 20F1U it could be seen clearly.
All around It is probably the second or third best monitor I have ever had in my possession (the 20F1U beats it by a tad and the 20E1U beats it by a large margin). It also does not have that distortion on the sides of the screen you see on flat tube consumer sets. The dampening wires are also hardly visible at all in 240p.
Around August 2014 in this same thread you posted about testing with the 17" version which you returned due to sync issues with several consoles, NES, Neo-Geo MVS, and SNES. I checked those posts again and it appeared you and cyborc at the time were both using csync on the SNES and mentioned a similar wobble. So I'm guessing composite video for sync fixes this issue for the SNES on these monitors then? I'm assuming the 17" and 19" will behave the same, a possibly dangerous assumption I know.
I bought the 17" back then when those new ones were on ebay, but due to life problems getting in the way, it is still in the box and I've never been able to test it with anything, so I'm still asking questions so I may know what to expect and what kinds of cables I need to build. I don't own a NES or Famicom and while I do have an MVS I plan to sell it along with other arcade boards so not really planning on using any of the known problem consoles other than a Super Famicom with it. I don't know if it's relevant to this discussion by my SFC is an early version as it has the separate audio board in the metal box. I'm trying to get to a point where I can test mine soon.
Nah mine was returned because the sync problems were much worse than I experienced with this one. I had also gone back on the 17 incher and tried composite video and got the same result. The NES also does not have the same issue on this one. The corners of the CRT were also fuzzy and not sharp at all. I think my 17 incher had been damaged during shipping as pasky bought one from the same guy and had no issues like that. The fuzzy corners also extended pretty far into the picture, it was not just the tips of the corners. HOPEFULLY you did not get my returned monitor because I am pretty sure he resold it as used.
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Xyga wrote:It's really awesome how quash never gets tired of hammering the same stupid shit over and over and you guys don't suspect for second that he's actually paid for this.
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