XRGB-3

[RGB32E]

Sorry to bump my earlier question - but this is getting so annoying and I can't seem to find an answer to the cause.
To the point, I have a ntsc n64 unit with a late serial number, connected
to s-video 1 on the xrgb-3. Output B1 to a Dell 2209wa via vga.
In some high contrast situations with bright whites I get a black screen for a second or two and it looks exactly like the KOF example on the wiki.
Earlier in the thread Artemio also wrote about loosing sync and getting a sudden black screen and experimenting with a lm1881.
I'm curious if I have the same problem but with s-video? Is there a solution? Will viletims rgb mod with the XC9536XL solve it?

What game(s) and when did you have picture drop out on your N64?

[angryswede]

What game(s) and when did you have picture drop out on your N64?

In Diddy Kong Racing the screen goes black every time I shoot a missile close up. In Super Mario 64 I have only noticed it twice - both when staring into the sun.

[Rock Man]

Sorry to bump my earlier question - but this is getting so annoying and I can't seem to find an answer to the cause.
To the point, I have a ntsc n64 unit with a late serial number, connected
to s-video 1 on the xrgb-3. Output B1 to a Dell 2209wa via vga.
In some high contrast situations with bright whites I get a black screen for a second or two and it looks exactly like the KOF example on the wiki.
Earlier in the thread Artemio also wrote about loosing sync and getting a sudden black screen and experimenting with a lm1881.
I'm curious if I have the same problem but with s-video? Is there a solution? Will viletims rgb mod with the XC9536XL solve it?

Such a coincidence, I was having the same problem with my Dreamcast console. Tried hooking up the S-Video for comparison to see how well it holds up against SCART when all of the sudden I play SF: III Double Impact and the picture goes dark and never comes back. It occurs right after the Capcom logo. I too recall the same question being asked earlier but cannot remember which page, so I apologize too. XD

Pretty sure my cables are NTSC.

[speedlolita]

DC cables are universal.

That bug is something that would bother me no end..

2+ is just simples.

[Rock Man]

DC cables are universal.

That bug is something that would bother me no end..

2+ is just simples.

I came up with a fix for the problem. A bit unorthodox but it works (for Street Fighter 3 anyway) whenever I power it on I have to wait until it gets past the Capcom logo. From there I change inputs on the XRGB device. Moments later change back to view a stable image. It's strange it does this on S-Video, when I play through the SCART/21-Pin GAME INPUT the pics rock solid, same goes for VGA (D IN 2). Looks like Micomsoft didn't spend as much time refining the S-Video aspect of the XRGB-3 unit.

It was a bother at first, now not so much. Gotta remember to hit the switch at the right time if I'm playing S-Video.

[angryswede]

I came up with a fix for the problem. A bit unorthodox but it works (for Street Fighter 3 anyway) whenever I power it on I have to wait until it gets past the Capcom logo. From there I change inputs on the XRGB device. Moments later change back to view a stable image. It's strange it does this on S-Video, when I play through the SCART/21-Pin GAME INPUT the pics rock solid, same goes for VGA (D IN 2). Looks like Micomsoft didn't spend as much time refining the S-Video aspect of the XRGB-3 unit.

It was a bother at first, now not so much. Gotta remember to hit the switch at the right time if I'm playing S-Video.

The N64 is the only console I can try with, but it seems that you are right regarding the bad s-video.
For some reason I never thought of trying composite instead of s-video and of course that worked perfect without ever causing a black screen.

I can't really tell the difference between composite and s-video any way, they look equally bad, so I'm happy with composite until I break the unit with that xc9536xl.

[Rock Man]

I came up with a fix for the problem. A bit unorthodox but it works (for Street Fighter 3 anyway) whenever I power it on I have to wait until it gets past the Capcom logo. From there I change inputs on the XRGB device. Moments later change back to view a stable image. It's strange it does this on S-Video, when I play through the SCART/21-Pin GAME INPUT the pics rock solid, same goes for VGA (D IN 2). Looks like Micomsoft didn't spend as much time refining the S-Video aspect of the XRGB-3 unit.

It was a bother at first, now not so much. Gotta remember to hit the switch at the right time if I'm playing S-Video.

The N64 is the only console I can try with, but it seems that you are right regarding the bad s-video.
For some reason I never thought of trying composite instead of s-video and of course that worked perfect without ever causing a black screen.

I can't really tell the difference between composite and s-video any way, they look equally bad, so I'm happy with composite until I break the unit with that xc9536xl.

IIRC: S-Video gains you luminance (used on aged Black & White TV's) and lush color. In most cases is a step forward from Composite... devices may vary I know for SNES on a standard CRT display, using S-Video you'll receive a better picture. By my experience this is not the case with the Nintendo 64, whenever I play it on my usual displays, both CRT and HDTV it eliminates most color bleed sure but the brightness is too high (mostly on HD sets), watering down the color. For standards it's hard to describe, there's a certain interference involved that hinders the image. Too many in between dots, I'm unsure of the exact terminology but let's just say I had a bad experience when playing N64 on ANY TV in S-Video. Composite proved to be some what viable on the Goldeneye system. Super Nintendo S-Video looks superior to Composite on CRT's however I wouldn't touch that level quality on an HDTV. Tried playing Turtles In Time in S-Video and caused intense eye strain, I'm not a fan of having seizures.

S-Video being felt through the XRGB a lla VGA conversion method is different. You get improved performance out of your cables. Didn't bother comparing the two Video types on Dreamcast, though I wouldn't doubt they look the same. Only thing I played in Composite is the NES which outperforms Coosis Universal HD Adapters Composite Video (used it via SCART/Composite AV Adapter) along with many other converters I tried. The XRGB Composite appears to hold the finest Composite Video of all the different brands, provided you must set the NES to Low Pass in the Y/C seperation settings. However the picture still leaves much to be desired considering how unbelievably dark and bland the colors are. I will be so relieved after I get the NES RGB modded.

Hm, noticed something interesting in the XRGB-3's wiki. Although it covers the PC Engine and NES which are none SCART (RGB) consoles by default, there's no mention of Panasonic 3DO. The infamous Interactive Multiplayer. Dave Needle and RJ Mical hardware tech should be reviewed as well being it was at one point relevant during the 16-bit era (although 3DO was a 32-bit hardware, may have been the first of it's kind). I'll go on ahead and run some S-Video tests, see how the XRGB takes it and report back here for those few that own one. In the process of obtaining a Pre-Modded 3DO as well suited for RGB. I can't wait to see how the XRGB responds to it!

[BuckoA51]

You found someone who RGB mods 3DO's? Have you seen how complex that mod is? Even Console Passion won't do it!

[Rock Man]

You found someone who RGB mods 3DO's? Have you seen how complex that mod is? Even Console Passion won't do it!

Indeed that mod is "HARD" from what I remember. Lots of delicate soldering and parts required... actually I just said I'm in the process of looking for someone who does 3DO mods. Was going to ask over at Console Passion though now that you confirmed they don't do 3DO's it sorta kills my plans. *sniffles* Won't give up though!

[BuckoA51]

You could try asking Console Passion but I know it's not on their list of mods. Is it worth it for a machine with so few worthwhile games?

[RuffNEC]

anyone could post the colour settings for PC Engine in B1 ?

I don't get good colours with default settings..

greetings

[Fudoh]

Hardly, since the PCE's settings really depend on which RGB booster mod you're using. First try to change the input termination from 75 to 220 ohm (or vice versa) as this might provide better grounds for fine tuning the picture.

[RuffNEC]

Hardly, since the PCE's settings really depend on which RGB booster mod you're using. First try to change the input termination from 75 to 220 ohm (or vice versa) as this might provide better grounds for fine tuning the picture.

well much better with 220hm.... moosman made the modification. Don't know can get the right colours. its very difficult to mach the settings

one of the most annoing this is that you can't save PROFILES on your XRGB3. Would made sense if you could choose presaved settings for each consoles.

Hope this gonna be possible in future xrgb's

[Fudoh]

Would made sense if you could choose presaved settings for each consoles.

yes, can be a pain. I would suggest using the PCE exclusively on of the two RGB inputs and using the OTHER one for the other systems (since they're closer). E.g. PCE on front RGB and Saturn/SFC etc on the back RGB.

If your mod is anything like mine you need to boost the R/G/B Gamma Gains significantly.

[Rock Man]

You could try asking Console Passion but I know it's not on their list of mods. Is it worth it for a machine with so few worthwhile games?

Sure, I feel it's very worth it. Always wanted to tap the raw RGB in Crash 'N Burn. I often romanticized about playing Sailor Moon in RGB output on the original hardware. Blade, Force Po'ed, Yuyu Hakusho, Wolfenstein 3D, Samurai Showdown, ain't nothing like playing them on 3DO in vibrant colors. Most importantly I must play Gex and Super Street Fighter 2 X (my first two games) in crisp analogue form. S-Video WAS good for those extra old TV's but in HD it doesn't cut it any more. I think the reason why I want this so bad is because 3DO was my first CD based platform. I couldn't believe the CD quality audio and improved picture (this was back then when all my systems were hooked up in RF including the Panasonic FZ-10. I was so used to Genesis and SNES Channel 4 static RF that when I witnessed 3DO's, I was blown away)

Even if the 3DO did have so few games they were special to me, that and the Master System had been in the family for years. Master System didn't have much either, but I still bought another one even after my brother sold our first. Although the MS was a bit more convenient for the XRGB since it had RGB output built-in. I'll take your advice and ask about the at Console Passion.

[BuckoA51]

Do let us know what Andy says. BTW, your Master System works ok with the XRGB3 then? What model do you have?

[Artemio]

I have a sega master system II and it works really well via RGB with the XRGB 3.

[Rock Man]

Think I got the first model (long black & brown one) tested on the XRGB-3 works like a dream.

I also put the ol' FZ-10 Panasonic through her paces, functions correctly in S-Video. No discrepencies. Looking forward to trying it in RGB.

[BuckoA51]

Strange that a real Master System works and yet the SMS converter does not, then again could be your displays/secondary processors are more tolerant/compatible than mine.

[Rock Man]

Ah I saw those before, they're the kind you insert into the Megadrive really convenient if you're looking for a cheap solution to play SMS stuff.

I wonder why it doesn't work since both SMS and the add-on share the same technology. It sounds like Sega negated key components in order to make the peripheral cheaper. Hope that's not the case because that would suck if it was the RGB part. Yeah, I would try it out on a different display and see what happens. Good luck.

[RuffNEC]

I am tending to buy a NEW LED TFT Monitor from Benq. The monitor has 120hz mode and PIVOT function.



http://apcmag.com/first-look-the-benq-xl2410t-.htm

anyone tested the monitor with the XRGB 3 yet ?

[Fudoh]

I wouldn't trust this review. The name the Dell U2711 as a gamer's dream display though is has a quite high input lag of 2+ frames. They also mention that the BenQ does interframe creation on 60Hz inputs which is a) unlikely because the human eye can hardly tell a 60fps movement from a 120fps one and b) causes severe lag since the display has to buffer at least 2 incoming frames to even start with the calculation of the new frames.

Any review mentioning a response rate while completely denying the existence of input lag is nothing but utter rubish.

I would also not buy a 16:9 display when plenty of great 16:10 displays are available which are much better for 4:3 gaming.

HP ZR24W - hands down the best (and easily available) gaming display for use with the XRGB-3.

[RuffNEC]

thanks but this Monitor has also 3D support for blurays so it has some plus points for my choice.

so you don't know anything about the monitor in practice?

The HP Monitor looks good and has also Pivot but not a single hdmi in as I require.

[Fudoh]

googled a bit and tftcentral has it's review up as well: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/benq_xl2410t.htm
the BenQ has a "through" mode which minimizes the lag, so you're good to go. I still wouldn't buy a 16:9 display with the XRGB in mind, but that's up to you.

EDIT: sorry, update: the BenQ is a TN panel ? Don't kid yourself - TN means no fun with tate (because of the bad viewing angle) and horrible blacks for movies....

[Artemio]

I am not sure if this si what might be affecting you...but one thing is for sure, the Power Base Converter does not exactly equal a SMS in all levels, from the Sega Genesis VDP documentation by Charles MacDonald:

Bit 2 toggles between the Master System (mode 4) and Genesis (mode 5)
display modes. While in mode 4, none of the registers which normally
affect the Genesis work; and the unused registers (8, 9 - can't test 6) now
function. The mode bits which select TMS9918 modes on a real SMS have
no function here. (This is why the SMS game F16 Fighter will not work
with a Power Base Converter, it uses some of the TMS9918 modes in-game)

The one exception is register $0C. You can set up a 320x192 display,
but the leftmost eight columns read 'garbage' data for the name table
attributes. Enabling interlace makes the display unstable. (and this
is partially true for a 320x192 picture, which shakes slightly) I'd
advise you set $0C to zero to enable a 256x192 display, which is the
normal SMS resolution. The Genesis always generates a 224 line picture;
the 192 lines in SMS mode are centered in the middle of the screen.

I could not get the top row or right column lock features to work while
in SMS mode. Apart from this bit, the M3 pin on the cartridge connector
also puts the machine into SMS mode, which may fully enable all video
features.

the bottom line is, they are not equal always.

[RuffNEC]

EDIT: sorry, update: the BenQ is a TN panel ? Don't kid yourself - TN means no fun with tate (because of the bad viewing angle) and horrible blacks for movies....

mhm the picture may be better on the HP ZR24w but if you're playing on the benq the screen is also adjustable in Pivot mode so you can fix the viewing angle.

I only owned TN Panels since today...

[Fudoh]

I only owned TN Panels since today...

maybe time to move on Na, really, if you don't mind the BenQ being a TN panel, it sounds like a nice display. Probably not this expensive either.

[Konsolkongen]

I am not sure if this si what might be affecting you...but one thing is for sure, the Power Base Converter does not exactly equal a SMS in all levels, from the Sega Genesis VDP documentation by Charles MacDonald:
...

the bottom line is, they are not equal always.

Makes sense, a friend of mine said that forcing some EU Master System games in 60Hz on his Master System wasn't possible but worked fine using the Master System converter. I do have s Master System 2 around here somewhere but I'm not sure I'll want to modify it for RGB anytime soon, even though it might work on my setup.

[angryswede]

mhm the picture may be better on the HP ZR24w but if you're playing on the benq the screen is also adjustable in Pivot mode so you can fix the viewing angle.
I only owned TN Panels since today...

Most if not all 16:10 screens have a pivot function straight out of the box and also gives you a substantially larger screen area in 4:3 compared to 16:9. 16:10 is imho the given choice for all-round usage. Not perfect for anything, but still the best compromise.

[RuffNEC]

I only owned TN Panels since today...

maybe time to move on Na, really, if you don't mind the BenQ being a TN panel, it sounds like a nice display. Probably not this expensive either.

I've heard it would not have been possible to use an IPS Panel for this Monitor as it won't work with the 120hz refresh rate. The monitor has a resonse time of only 2ms which is excelent for the input lag. the colours are nicer on a IPS Panel for sure but less input lags than on IPS. Or does 120hz causes any trouble for Retro Games?!