Prelude to the Apocalypse

[Mischief Maker]

Susan Sarandon was right that Hillbots will use their sheepness to counter Trump if elected, initiating change sooner than a Halliburton/Hillary inception/Obama continuation .

Explain to me why this revolution would happen under a Trump presidency when it failed to materialize under both terms of the Bush jr presidency.

[Xyga]

It's less funny when you have actual Russian nuke-strike capable heavy bombers flying over European airspace.

Then why aren't you looking in to this for yourself instead of popping in with your worthless posturing?

What have you even contributed besides "le Nazis are le evil"?

If Europe is going to see a war in the near future, it's going to be because of politicians both in Europe and the US giving in to the demands of their owners. And here you are blaming it on the evil Nazis who weren't even on the radar until your hilariously corrupt government started to force immigration for the purpose of destabilizing your nation.

The far-right and anti-EU parties accounts are fat with your beloved Russia's money, and those refugees it's again Russia and their lovely authoritarian regimes alliance who've been fucking pushing them into our borders to further fuel the absurd growing xenophobic madness of our people and destabilize our politics.
Russia has gone beyond defending its interests, it's fucking revenge for the shit the US and the idiots in the EU who followed them have done these past years, stepping on their sphere of influence.

My contribution is telling you're a fucking liar and a dangerous person who should be kicked out, because you're one of those people working on flipping people's opinion in western countries in favor of a country that clearly stands as our enemy. That kind of effort pays off with time and they know it, internet anonimity has opened freeways for countries at war to allow their trained propagandists to directly speak to the people inside enemy territories and deal ideological blows, not even propaganda information websites can do that so well, if you have enough people doing it it's a fearsome custom weaponized information offensive. And when it comes to Russia we're talking about experts at fucking up, manipulating and deceiving the world at least as good as the US's, no even better considering how efficient it is now.
I don't give a crap about the US's schemes that started all that shit nor about those terrorist mosquitoes, and I don't give a rat's ass about my governement, but I've seen what's Russia's been doing over the years, what that country under that psychopath Putin is capable of, and realized they're the biggest threat to Europe in this era and by far.

I don't trust Clinton and shit one bit, and I know they're no friends of Europe and I realize the risks, but the other option is even worse for us, if the US needs to be shown the door with a foot in the ass, with Russia the message must be stronger than that: their enterprise to undermine the Euopean nations and the Union must be absolutely, brutally, completely terminated.
What pisses me off the most is that again when the US start real shit somewhere it's never on their borders, and there they have pissed a completely batshit group of monsters the strongest of them being loaded with WMD this time for fucking real, and it's fucking next door, to us Europeans.
If there's a place where we need a wall now, no a gigantic A.T. field up to space, it's on the entire eastern border of Europe.

[supergrafx77]

Susan Sarandon was right that Hillbots will use their sheepness to counter Trump if elected, initiating change sooner than a Halliburton/Hillary inception/Obama continuation .

Explain to me why this revolution would happen under a Trump presidency when it failed to materialize under both terms of the Bush jr presidency.

"That revolution," did happen in 2008 with Obama's progressive platform/election, which struck a nerve (much like Bernie's), although like you said, it unfortunately took two terms where it should have only been one in regards to the travesty that was the Cheney years.
But in 2004, Kerry was a much weaker/boring/typical status quo Dem candidate. The win for Bush Jr. though, was "too close for comfort."
Trump: Both GOP neocons and neoliberals are at odds with him.
Pepe and friends and very few millionaires are his only ally.
As a fellow Berner said on twitter one night as I recall, (Trump) He'd have trouble even passing a dinner plate (via Congress).

[BryanM]

"That revolution," did happen in 2008 with Obama's progressive platform/election, which struck a nerve (much like Bernie's)

This is very true. 2008 Obama pretended to be FDR#2. If he actually was that, 2012 Obama would have had a landslide win of equal or greater magnitude.

Even though he is a servant to capital, I don't think people really appreciate the true extent to how good Obama is. And that is this: the capitalists don't have absolutely everything they want. They didn't get that bigger, super huge war they keep lobbying for.

The capitalists always get everything they want... but then they didn't. Even got called "fatcats" once. The nerve.

That'll all be fixed once Clinton gets in. We won't have that kind of intransigence again.

[Mischief Maker]

You say you and your friend are Berners.

Have you signed up with Our Revolution yet?

[supergrafx77]

I did. But now I'm a complete pessimist>
Especially after the DNCleaks/DNC rigging of the primary without calling cheating/treason of our election process for what it is....
Feels hollow to me, like when a brand like Ben & Jerry's sells out to Nestle/Breyers/Edy's.
Or when you find that hippie Vermont that once meant well in its pursuit of progressiveness since Bernie, ended up inflating land prices, turning the state into wealthy NY'ers playground/forcing the original inhabitants away/no jobs, thereby no longer being Vermont and rather an extension of Massachusetts.
Like Déjà vu: Obama's 2008 platform vs. Agreed Bernie/Hillary platform.
Both of which didn't nor won't be enacted in either Obama's/Hillary's terms.
They are merely cash-ins to heed the sheep to slaughter by casting their votes.
Sadly with Obama, votes cast were done with hope/Hillary, now, with unfounded fear.
And another recollection: Obama after being elected saying something to the degree, 'If you/the people want me to do something, you/the people have to make me do it,' which all seems very similar to the Berners who support falling in line w/ a vote for Hillary, thinking that they can "push her left."
And that's where, I believe this "our revolution," is heading.
In the grand scheme of things>nowhere.
Although, if it does get Bernie endorsed candidates in, in some states, that's great... I guess...

[Bitter Almonds]

The media should push $hillary on releasing those goldmansacks speech transcripts to see just how much of a corporate puppet shill she truly is.

[quash]

So typical of the French to say so little with so much. No matter.

those refugees it's again Russia and their lovely authoritarian regimes alliance who've been fucking pushing them into our borders to further fuel the absurd growing xenophobic madness of our people and destabilize our politics.

LOL, this is a new one. You realize Russia wants Syria back for their military outposts there as well as to keep a buffer between them and the Middle East, right? The ones pushing for refugees to come in to Europe are the people controlling your politicians, not fucking Russia lol.

Here's all the proof you need: even when the backlash reaches a point where the politicians that allowed it to happen have to acknowledge their wrongdoing, they still do next to nothing to resolve it! Do you really think Merkel, for example, is jeopardizing the future of her party for Russia?

My contribution is telling you're a fucking liar

What, exactly, have I lied about? I'll wait.

and a dangerous person who should be kicked out, because you're one of those people working on flipping people's opinion in western countries in favor of a country that clearly stands as our enemy.

First I'm evil, now I'm dangerous. And you wonder why I keep coming back to this thread

Russia only stands as your enemy if you continue to allow the globalist agenda to move forward unchecked.

More ressentiment towards the US

Clearly you have taken the globalist bait hook, line and sinker. And of course you have to be mad at those god damn Americans for making you cooperate with them. Nevermind that you could have been building your own defense instead of creating a nanny state where people riot over having to work too much.

[ED-057]

Neoliberalism is a religion that worships money. Like other religions, it has its missionaries who go forth into the world and try to convert others to its cause, the cause of PROFIT (glory upon its name) for its priests. Those who will not convert are heretics who must be destroyed.

While the endless greed of profit-seeking billionaires might seem crazy, they are really just devout followers of their faith. Of course, religious delusion has been known to inspire people to do some weird shit. Nuclear war? You never know.

So, Putin is waging a propaganda war you say? You would be too, in his shoes. Putin has been declared a heretic by the neolibs. Russia's blacklisting of foreign NGOs is impeding the work of neolib missionaries. I'm sure he'd rather not become the next Hussein, Gaddafi, or just about any South American leftist leader. Maybe he also doesn't want Russia to become the next Ukraine or Greece.

I'm gonna say Russia is the underdog here. If this were a JRPG, you'd be playing as a kid from some backwater Russian town and his pet bear, on a quest to save your girlfriend from the evil US empire. Maybe get some Chinese kung fu master to join your party on the way, right?

[Ed Oscuro]

Meanwhile, Trump is "hoping" Hurricane Matthew dissipates.

~do you believe in magic~

Wait, are you telling me we have already developed the technology to dissipate hurricanes?

No, I'm telling you not to get your weather news from The Drudge Report.

Trump's first Tweeted response to the storm was idiotic. His second response was overlong and has the look of being ghostwritten.

Speaking of the deplorables, I did not know some of the depths of depravity his "team" sink to. Chris Christie trading pieces of the Twin Towers for political favors is certainly a new low, I think.

[Mischief Maker]

And another recollection: Obama after being elected saying something to the degree, 'If you/the people want me to do something, you/the people have to make me do it,' which all seems very similar to the Berners who support falling in line w/ a vote for Hillary, thinking that they can "push her left."

Do you think paranoid warmonger Richard Nixon woke up one morning, had a bluebird alight on his shoulder, then smiled and said, "I think I'm gonna create a government agency for the purpose of protecting the environment today?" No, he was dragged into it kicking and screaming by Ralph Nader's activist movement. Do you think LBJ would have passed the civil rights act and handed over the South to the Republican party by his lonesome if he didn't have Martin Luther King jr's activist movement pushing for it? Even FDR had a massive grassroots union movement fueling the New Deal.

Years ago I was a professional activist and I had a chance to lobby Russ Feingold in person. He's one of the best senators in recent memory right next to Sanders and Warren (god willing we'll get him back in the senate if Scott Walker's voter ID suppression tactics fail). And HE told us that he couldn't support the forest legislation we were lobbying for unless we could produce proof of enough public support to show that it would be a politically feasible move.

And it's not like this is a pivot. Bernie Sanders had been emphasizing the importance of grassroots activism beyond the presidential election the entire primary. "This campaign isn't about Bernie Sanders." "Not me, us." Remember those? They weren't just pretty turns of phrase. Bernie was discouraging protest votes while the primary was still up in the air! Don't tell me you've swallowed the Clinton Campaign propaganda that Sanders is the rainbows and unicorns candidate, he's a goddamn pragmatist. That's why he would attach republicans to his bills and put the republican's name on it to increase its odds of passing during the Bush jr. years.

Who are the real Rainbow and Unicorn candidates? Trickle-down Republicans like Trump and Pence. Just cut taxes on the wealthy down far enough that they'll end their long sulk in Galt's Gulch and descend to the trumpeting of cherubs and bring jobs to us worthless masses of parasites. It's a plan that's failed since the great depression and it'll fail again. But they'll keep pushing it because they're paid to believe! You and your buddy are fooling yourselves if you think for a second congressional Republicans would turn their noses up at passing a 15% corporate tax rate. They hate Trump but they LUUUUUV Pence.

This is bigger than Hillary Clinton. I know I'm getting into those details that make BryanM throw his hands in the air and scream "BOOO-RING!" but the fact of the matter remains that 1-3 seats on an evenly-divided Supreme Court, THE most powerful branch of government, are up for grabs this election, and those are jobs are for life. Even though Bill Clinton was "just as bad" as Bush jr, every one of his Supreme Court appointees voted against Citizen's United and every one of Bush jr's appointees voted for it in a 5-4 split. Voter suppression cases are slowly inching their way up to the Supreme Court as we speak, I think you and BryanM are putting your heads in the sand if you think 4-8 years of Trump are going to leave our democracy unscathed.

You won't hear me giving any defense to Clinton beyond 1) the fact that Trump is worse and 2) she seems to be held to a different standard than the KKKlown. If left to her own devices without grassroots pressure she won't make any change unless the polls are 110% behind it. But scumbag or not, from an activist's viewpoint a Clinton presidency gives a much better terrain advantage than a Trump presidency. A disloyal political opportunist always wants to be at the front of a grassroots parade, whichever way the parade leads, which is a better opportunity than an emotionally insecure rich kid with trickle-down ideologues whispering in his ear. Senator Bernie Sanders is introducing legislation to close the real estate tax loopholes that Fred Trump's accountant used to give Donald Trump a 15-year tax holiday. Do you honestly think that bill has a snowball's chance in hell of getting passed if Donald Trump has the veto stamp? I did the protest vote in 2000 for a candidate that was ten times better than Jill Stein, and as an activist the terrain became fucking Mordor for 8 years.

The will to political activism is a vanishingly rare resource. Don't waste yours!

[Bitter Almonds]

Shit, I WISH I could go back and be able to vote for Ralph Nader hahah.

[Super Laydock]

Both are totally not worthy.
RESET and inserting Sanders is the only choice I'd approve of.

Dangerous times ahead this way.

[BryanM]

Man. Still. That FBI deal.

You know how they were handing out immunity deals left and right? And then, got nothing in return for them? Just a whole bunch of mysterious amnesia?

Could... could they at least pretend to do their job?

This shit only works if your only window to the world is TV. It's only a matter of time before they realize the full true magnitude of how much the internet is the enemy and has to be destroyed for them to keep doing this shit.

I know I'm getting into those details that make BryanM throw his hands in the air and scream "BOOO-RING!" but the fact of the matter remains that 1-3 seats on an evenly-divided Supreme Court, THE most powerful branch of government, are up for grabs this election, and those are jobs are for life. Even though Bill Clinton was "just as bad" as Bush jr, every one of his Supreme Court appointees voted against Citizen's United

You know full well that Citizen's United hasn't changed a single thing. You can't be that out of the loop.

All that it does is streamline the bribery process slightly. Instead of having to have an assistant write 1,000 checks, now that assistant only has to write one. Citizen's United is the definition of a prop in kabuki theater. It lets Democrats pretend they're against corruption, when they're nothing of the sort. That is the function the Democrats serve: the illusion of a protector, and a smokescreen to cover the long-term capitalist interests to quell a revolution.

You're talking about moving deck chairs on the titanic here. You'd rather side with long term capitalists than short term ones, that's fine. After Bernie is dead and Ted Cruz or his non-union Mexican equivalent becomes president after the next economic crash, I'm sure things will be just fine.

I'm sure Keith Ellison will be able to save us, right? .... right?

those details... "BOO-RING"

You want to use the supreme court as a boogie man, the only traction you'll get with that argument is with social issues. Social issues the long term capitalists are actually in favor of and actually make happen.[1] Like gay marriage. And uh... gay marriage.

Oh. Obamacare. You might get a point or two on Obamacare. You can argue that Obamacare isn't 100% in favor of insurance companies. Some people might feel like saving it.

Jesus christ man. If you think getting into the details is supposed to make Trump look scary... fuck. Now I'm not even worried about the supreme court, now that you've established how little we've gotten out of it.

Combined with the historical precedent that the court gets dicked over by a president when overwhelming popular opinion on his side, you've now lost that point of argument with me. The Supreme Court is not a reason to vote in favor of Hillary Clinton. Congratulations.



[1] See, Citizen's United is opposed by the long term capitalists BECAUSE IT RUINS THE ILLUSION. If all the money is in one big lump sum, it's more noticeable. They want to divide it up into smaller piles over a larger area of ground. More low-key that way.

I will however concede a Money Hydra is more fundamentally interesting than a Money Goliath.

I did the protest vote in 2000

We've already established that, thanks to you, we now have a working peace deal with Iran. A deal Hillary has gone on record repeatedly calling "bad" and "retarded".

That makes you a hero. Don't back out now after all the progress we've made. Nothing less than an Obama - we can't afford to go back.

In the grand scheme of things>nowhere.
Although, if it does get Bernie endorsed candidates in, in some states, that's great... I guess...

I used to feel like we were making some real progress through the membership growth of the progressive caucus.

Then only 5 of these fucks endorsed Sanders.

5 human beings versus 66 cowards or corrupt pieces of shit.

We need to apply guillotines pronto.

nanny state

Aaaand now we know why he likes neocon second-coming of W, Donald Trump, and not Bernie "Panders".

Better that everyone dies in a Mad Max hellhole, exterminated by our glorious bronze overlords. Than have a society with even a smidge of egalitarianism.

Because someone "lazy" might not have to suffer as much as the rest of us. God forbid.

I'm gonna say Russia is the underdog here. If this were a JRPG, you'd be playing as a kid from some backwater Russian town and his pet bear, on a quest to save your girlfriend from the evil US empire.

I don't wanna be NTR'd by Bill Clinton : ((((((((((

Can't the girlfriend just get droned to death while visiting her aunt and cousin in Ukraine?

I'm gonna say Russia is the underdog here.

Number of bases and outposts on foreign soil:

Russia: 10
USA: ~800

Kinda funny how when you google this, you get a nearly full list of all the Russian ones before the search results.

[trap15]

We've already established that, thanks to you, we now have a working peace deal with Iran. A deal Hillary has gone on record repeatedly calling "bad" and "retarded".

I don't believe that's true, but even if it is, Trump's done the exact same, so that doesn't matter.

[Durandal]

Don't back out now after all the progress we've made. Nothing less than an Obama - we can't afford to go back.

In a term of four years (times two), a president should focus on establishing long-term solutions and policies in what little time he/she has, rather than short-term bills which get overturned the moment a guy from the other party gets to desecrate the White House. You could hope that for the next six decades before the Great Nuclear War only candidates from your favorite party get to be president, but that's optimistic thinking at its very best. Truth is that in the inevitable moment when a Republican gets inaugurated, Obamacare is going to get wiped clean off the desk. Obama will be remembered as the good guy who tried, while America will have to say goodbye to free healthcare thanks to those no-good Republicans. And that's why you make compromises, not because you don't have the balls to make everyone accept your shit even if it's better for the people, but because compromises (tend to) last longer even if the end result is not entirely what you had in mind. Of course nobody will put up with your shit in a democracy where around half is against your ideas.
Obamacare might be better than nothing, but a compromise could have been better than better than nothing.

Bosnia is already showing slight cracks, but it would have been a more long-lasting solution than 'fuck u serbia, bosnia belong to croatia now'.

[BryanM]

Obamacare might be better than nothing, but a compromise could have been better than better than nothing.

What's ridiculous here is that the more liberal position is way more robust to being over turned. Obama goes up and says "herp derp, let's lower the age requirement on medicare." It passes. Everyone understands what it does. Most people feel it's pretty fair. It becomes a concrete untouchable pillar that lasts forever.

Obamacare *is* the compromised position. irc, The only major difference between it and the republican heritage foundation plan is that it has some effort of a price control safeguard - that X% of that insurance money has to go toward paying actual medical care.

So many things in our society that we take for granted are pretty extreme. As I constantly point out, we didn't always have public schools. Public schools are an idea that the communists came up with. It's right there in the communist manifesto.

Like most people I like to crap on our public schools (quite a lot), but think about this: Think about how people would be without them. Even as nothing more than fancy daycare centers and a place to shove some basic functioning literacy down people's throats, that's a net benefit to society.

I don't believe that's true

She's been publicly lobbying to reinstate some sanctions on them since last year, as well as speaking negatively about it any time it's not election season. There would not have been an Iran peace deal if Obama had lost his primary.

Those of the more pessimistic sort might point to this being the reason why we're grooming public opinion toward a showdown with Russia of all people - with Iran off the table they just go to the next target down the list. Oceania is running out of people to be enemies with.

Trump's done the exact same, so that doesn't matter.

Exactly. This election doesn't matter. 50/50 split on public opinion. No one can make a clean judgment call on whose worse.

[Bitter Almonds]

Exactly. The choice is between twiddle$hill and twiddletrump. It doesn't matter.

[Specineff]

The media should push $hillary on releasing those goldmansacks speech transcripts to see just how much of a corporate puppet shill she truly is.

Seems that Wikileaks just took care of that. Not sure if it will be super-effective, though.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/j ... ils-229304

(Edit: typo)

[trap15]

They're incredibly underwhelming. Most of the content actually shines neutral-to-positive on her, but of course Assange titled each section with the most negative-looking interpretation of it.

[EmperorIng]

They're incredibly underwhelming. Most of the content actually shines neutral-to-positive on her, but of course Assange titled each section with the most negative-looking interpretation of it.

"You won't BELIEVE what she said in #7!"

[quash]

"My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders" doesn't exactly jive with most people, even her supporters, I'd imagine.

Still, nothing is going to take her down on its own. This would have to be the beginning of a huge string of leaks to have any lasting impact.

Aaaand now we know why he likes neocon second-coming of W, Donald Trump

Trump, a neocon? Really?

and not Bernie "Panders".

At this point, I am frankly amazed that nobody has started to question whether or not he's controlled opposition. I don't think the evidence is quite as overwhelming as, say, Gary "What is Aleppo?" Johnson, but Bernie sure has played a dubious role in this election. From choosing to downplay her scandals during the primary debates to stumping for her after she most likely stole the nomination, I think there's enough evidence to cast doubt on how this entire election has unfolded.

Of course, the elephant in the room that I've brought up multiple times already is that all of his campaign funds had to be surrendered to her upon her nomination. I seriously doubt most people would have felt compelled to donate to Hillary directly the way they did to Bernie.

Better that everyone dies in a Mad Max hellhole, exterminated by our glorious bronze overlords. Than have a society with even a smidge of egalitarianism.

The closest thing there is to a Mad Max hellhole in the US is California. Half the state gets its water from Colorado, for fuck's sake. But at least they have no shortage of egalitarianism, right?

Because someone "lazy" might not have to suffer as much as the rest of us. God forbid.

Seriously, show of hands here: who has actually lived in a poverty stricken neighborhood?

Most people in poverty have little to no aspirations of getting out. It's not what anyone wants to hear, but it's the truth.

Not to say that there aren't certain poverty traps in the US that don't exist elsewhere, but I can tell you firsthand that most of these are half-measures pushed by mostly Democrat politicians. Republicans may want to keep the working lower class poor, but Democrats want to keep them poor enough to not qualify for anything that could actually help them.

[BryanM]

Of course, the elephant in the room that I've brought up multiple times already is that all of his campaign funds had to be surrendered to her upon her nomination.

lol

be careful and don't get pregnant by space aliens tonite

[quash]

These kinds of things are always too far fetched to happen... until they do.

[quash]

Speaking of aliens...

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... liens-good

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/1802

[EmperorIng]

Reminds me about how the only thing they ever talked about when David Kucinich ran for president was his run-in with an alien. A much younger Ing found it strangely charming at the time.

[BulletMagnet]

[quash]

It's all fun and games until you elect a shapeshifter from Alpha Centauri.

At least I know who I'm voting for!

[Bananamatic]

Trump is finished

[Lord Satori]

The worst part of this election is knowing that this country isn't going to learn a damn thing from it.