XRGB-3

[Rock Man]

On his I played X-Men versus Street Fighter for the Saturn. Everytime I did Chun-Li Senretsu Kyaku or Wolverines Beserker Barrage X the the screen would go black and come back again.

Classic XRGB3 sync problem, you need to use composite sync from the Saturn to cure this.

Hmmm I see. In other words we should get our cables modified? I assume you aren't talking about those SCARTS that house composite quality instead of rich RGB.

[BuckoA51]

No, composite sync not composite video! Using the Saturn's composite sync (pin 1 on NTSC machines) will most likely cure the blackouts when the screen goes bright... could have sworn I explained all that a few posts ago

Doubt the Supergun is using anything but pure sync though, so not sure there.

[Rock Man]

No, composite sync not composite video! Using the Saturn's composite sync (pin 1 on NTSC machines) will most likely cure the blackouts when the screen goes bright... could have sworn I explained all that a few posts ago

Doubt the Supergun is using anything but pure sync though, so not sure there.

Right, right, right you did. But for some reason I thought that was called "pure" sync and not just composite sync. It's those terms that are throwing me off.

Does the Saturn require a mod like the Genny or does it already have this built in? Or perhaps you mean modding the cable for composite sync? I only have a regular SCART cable. Please forgive me if I'm asking you to explain something we already talked about, it's not intentional, lol.

[BuckoA51]

Yeah composite sync means horizontal and vertical sync in one. Pin 1 on the Saturn video out is pure composite sync, i.e a sync signal that isn't also video. That's what you want, composite sync rather than sync on composite video. Yes its confusing especially since composite sync sounds like composite video

The NTSC Saturn does not require a mod for composite sync, the PAL Saturn does. However, finding a cable that's wired for composite sync or even can be modified can be tricky. I'm acually chatting to a contact right now about producing some however, I'll keep you all posted.

[Artemio]

New versions released, they add the Scroll test for DC and Genesis, due to colors and system limitations, they are different backgrounds.. I will optimize and beuatify them as I learn.

http://code.google.com/p/240p-test-suite/downloads/list

Also several bug fixes and small rounding features (new font for DC, I hated the TTF one it had).

I am thinking about doing submenus, one for vidoe test patterns (to host the all white screen, etc) and a general one.

As always, feedback is welcome.

[Konsolkongen]

I just tried something I've been wondering about for a while now, but never had any use for it. I tried connecting a component source to the D2 input through the VGA port using a simple component to VGA cable. I was expecting this to work since it shares the same input with a D-terminal port. Sadly it didn't. Would have been nice as I have two component sources I want to connect, PS2 and PSP and only have one component to D-terminal adapter.

Speaking of PSP has anyone else wondered why they didn't choose the D3 input for the PSP Zoom feature? It would make so much more sense with it being on the front and all...

Artemio> I'm picking up my CD-R's later today. Can't wait to try out your software. Although I expect my setup to pass all tests it will be nice to have for future references and color adjustments.

[Konsolkongen]

Alright now I had a chance to try it out. As expected the XRGB3 > Gefen combo cleared all the scrolling and dropshadow test no problem.

In the Color Bars test I wasn't able to see anything in the "1" row at all no matter what I settings I changed on the XRGB, Gefen or TV.

In the Color Bars with Gray Scale test the gray appeared white. Certainly more whitish that on my LCD PC monitor. I don't know if it's possible but some instructions on how to correct this would be nice. Like the THX Optimizer menus on DVD's for example.

On the Striped Sprite Test the sprite is supposed to appear and disappear on the similar striped background right? Moving the sprite quickly upwards or downwards resulted in either an invisible sprite or a fully black star shaped one.

Very nice tool I would test this on my Panasonic Plasma TV but I don't feel like reorganizing the cables to do so, plus we already know that it will fail miserably on the dropshadow and interpolation tests.

EDIT: The image was a bit too low on my screen compared to other 240p Dreamcast games through the XRGB3.

EDIT2: I have kept my brightness setting at 60 on the XRGB3 for a while because it works well with the screenshots i take. Now I noticed that the title screen in Hanagumi Taisen Columns was way to bright. Lowering the brightness from 60 to 50 helped a lot and also made the gray background on the test screen more right. Now the screenshots that are supposed to be white a bit to grayish for my taste.
Can someone else post their XRGB3 picture settings?

[Artemio]

In the Color Bars test I wasn't able to see anything in the "1" row at all no matter what I settings I changed on the XRGB, Gefen or TV.

That is strange, because there is indeed info there, color 0x110000, 0x001100, 0x000011 and 0x111111.. I will confirm this via RGB, Composite and VGA.. but the image does have the information and I doubt the Dreamcast can't display it. Will confirm tonight. The image is exactly the one n the wiki: http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/File:Color.png Thanks for reporting this.

In the Color Bars with Gray Scale test the gray appeared white. Certainly more whitish that on my LCD PC monitor. I don't know if it's possible but some instructions on how to correct this would be nice. Like the THX Optimizer menus on DVD's for example.

The same as above applies, will check it since it is supposed to be gray at 75%, or color 0xc0c0c0, you can check this image at the wiki as well. The pattern needs color filters to be useful. It is the one used to verify color balance with each filter, since with each filter the gray of the background has the same intensity as the color and this should show with the filters.

But you are right, maybe adding a help window/screen for each pattern would be a good idea. If you have suggestions of this or for the wiki, please feel free to let me know, all help is more than welcome. As well as this feedback.

On the Striped Sprite Test the sprite is supposed to appear and disappear on the similar striped background right? Moving the sprite quickly upwards or downwards resulted in either an invisible sprite or a fully black star shaped one.

Well, of course since it is the same color... maybe I should use a different one for the sprite, but on bad deinterlacers having them the same color creates very revealing patterns this way.

Very nice tool I would test this on my Panasonic Plasma TV but I don't feel like reorganizing the cables to do so, plus we already know that it will fail miserably on the dropshadow and interpolation tests.

I was very interested in seeing them fail, it revealed the kind of filters the TV uses in my case, but I was interested on that. I am certain that also the checkerboard and the alternating stripes (pressing A on either) would fail, and the same patterns on the rest of the resolutions.

EDIT: The image was a bit too low on my screen compared to other 240p Dreamcast games through the XRGB3.

Interesting... Maybe it is because of the full color mode I am using (RGB555), but other than that I only disabled hardware filters on the GPU so that there is no dithering or filtering

Thanks for all the feedback =)

BTW, just finished a new version of the software, will release it tonight after verifying it on real hardware. It separates test patterns from interactive ones, adds full screen white, black and rgb screens; gray ramp, stereo test and a few more things. Source code is already up.. executables will be there in around 8 hours.

[Konsolkongen]

In the Color Bars with Gray Scale test the gray appeared white. Certainly more whitish that on my LCD PC monitor. I don't know if it's possible but some instructions on how to correct this would be nice. Like the THX Optimizer menus on DVD's for example.

The same as above applies, will check it since it is supposed to be gray at 75%, or color 0xc0c0c0, you can check this image at the wiki as well.

Yes I saw it on the Wiki and was surprised how bad I apparently have been butchering the image from the XRGB-3 It's much better with brightness set to 50 it seems.

But you are right, maybe adding a help window/screen for each pattern would be a good idea. If you have suggestions of this or for the wiki, please feel free to let me know, all help is more than welcome. As well as this feedback.

I'm guessing the THX screens are copy protected otherwise they could be added and would serve this purpose just fine. Maybe there are other freeware alternatives you could use?

[Fudoh]

THX and other video patterns use a YCbCr color space with limited luminance range. Very hard to port those to RGB full range levels...

[Konsolkongen]

Okay makes sense

[Artemio]

Just released the updated software in both versions, it adds gray ramp, pluge, full screen white, black and RGB patterns adn a sound test. It also has misc bug fixes here and there. When using VGA and the scanlines option, you can adjust scanline intensity with Y + up or down while in the menus.

The sound test is rudimentary, sinc eit is just a selectable beep on left, center and right... it is not working on the Genesis as intended yet, I have to look into that. I also found out my RGB cable is wrong regarding stereo, had to check with VGA, Composite and KallistiOS source code to verify I was outputing Left as left, but it is now.

I will be looking into adding help screens for each pattern, please let me know if you have ideas, suggestions or bugs. And maybe it is now time to create a separate thread for this.

http://code.google.com/p/240p-test-suite/downloads/list

BTW, tested the color bars and grays, and they display correctly via all output options on my setup.

[BuckoA51]

In the Color Bars test I wasn't able to see anything in the "1" row at all no matter what I settings I changed on the XRGB, Gefen or TV.

Weird that, I've got my Gefen set up at the moment as the EDGE is away for servicing (it's been making a weird buzzing noise). Anyway, with the Dreamcast directly into the Gefen I see the 1 row just fine, but the last 3 rows are all the same for me.

Anyway, the new test disc is superb, I think it needs its own thread now. The only thing I can see is that on SCART or VGA I can't get the entire grid pattern to show, it's always got a few pixels cropped off. Might be my setup though I've tried two tvs. I am using a PAL Dreamcast but I thought it was all the same in VGA land.

[blackoak]

After a long long long wait, I finally received my XRGB3 today, but I think it may now be fatally bricked. Here's what I did:

*downloaded the update tool and english firmware
*xrgb was recognized, followed all the steps at the wiki
*but, when i clicked update, the update tool program just gave an error message and crashed (using winxp)
*after this, when i turn on the xrgb3 (that is, press power), the power AND standby lights come on. however, its unresponsive--I can't power it off, and its not recognized by my pc now either

now the real kicker... I've tried to reset it, and it just wont work! Is there something i'm missing here? I've tried holding Menu+OK+power on the unit itself and the remote, but it just does nothing--the standby and power lights just stay on. theres no hint of activity or "activity lights" that i read somewhere. Is this an actual brick? Has anyone experienced problems like this? Any help welcome!

[Artemio]

In the Color Bars test I wasn't able to see anything in the "1" row at all no matter what I settings I changed on the XRGB, Gefen or TV.

Weird that, I've got my Gefen set up at the moment as the EDGE is away for servicing (it's been making a weird buzzing noise). Anyway, with the Dreamcast directly into the Gefen I see the 1 row just fine, but the last 3 rows are all the same for me.

That means you have color levels set up to high, try lowering each RGB setting until you can see all of them. I just finished writting the Help functions, and have the infrastructure to show a help window for each pattern.. now just to write them =P

Anyway, the new test disc is superb, I think it needs its own thread now.

Thanks for the feedback! Yes, I will be opening it's own thread with the next release which will have help for soem patterns at least.

Anyway, the new test disc is superb, I think it needs its own thread now. The only thing I can see is that on SCART or VGA I can't get the entire grid pattern to show, it's always got a few pixels cropped off. Might be my setup though I've tried two tvs. I am using a PAL Dreamcast but I thought it was all the same in VGA land.

This happens to me via RGB-21 + the XRGB-3 as well, but not using VGA directly to my TV.. when using teh VGA Box I do get the bottom lines.

Nevertheless I took the Dreamcast to one of teh Capcom Impress Cabinets, and using an RGB-21 to JAMMA adapter (with amp) tested it. Indeed, the Dreamcast cannot display those two lines via RGB/SCART... just through VGA. I tested it on two other arcade monitors and the signal has nothing in those lines at all when using RGB/SCART. What do you guys suggest I do about this? I guess that either I display the pattern "centered" on the visible range when using RGB, place a note on the help or alter the pattern completely. I am leaning towards placing a note and showing the pattern with one less line at the top so that it is centered.

EDIT: Same thing happens via composite... I can't get the last line.

EDIT 2: Confirmed, it is just a single line which is not visible.

EDIT 3: New version 1.41 released, and teh new thread open: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35554

The new version adds the help for basic patterns, descriptions and how to use in a compact manner. Feel free to correct me or add to them as you see fit.

It also adds teh option to move the grid one pixel at a time with the dpad. No Genesis release this time... Placing that help engine on the Gennie will be hell.

[Artemio]

After a long long long wait, I finally received my XRGB3 today, but I think it may now be fatally bricked. Here's what I did:

*downloaded the update tool and english firmware
*xrgb was recognized, followed all the steps at the wiki
*but, when i clicked update, the update tool program just gave an error message and crashed (using winxp)
*after this, when i turn on the xrgb3 (that is, press power), the power AND standby lights come on. however, its unresponsive--I can't power it off, and its not recognized by my pc now either

now the real kicker... I've tried to reset it, and it just wont work! Is there something i'm missing here? I've tried holding Menu+OK+power on the unit itself and the remote, but it just does nothing--the standby and power lights just stay on. theres no hint of activity or "activity lights" that i read somewhere. Is this an actual brick? Has anyone experienced problems like this? Any help welcome!

Try updating again, but download the Japanse updater as well.. some dlls and config are needed, and teh english updater simply doesn't work stand alone. Install both and use the one in english.

[BuckoA51]

That means you have color levels set up to high, try lowering each RGB setting until you can see all of them. I just finished writting the Help functions, and have the infrastructure to show a help window for each pattern.. now just to write them =P

You'd think so wouldn't you? However no adjustment I made got those squares back. Then again I didn't spend that long since this is just a temporary solution for me while my DVDO Edge is fixed (which, after faffing about with PC custom resolutions to correct overscan, I'm beginning to apprecate all the more).

[Rock Man]

Yeah composite sync means horizontal and vertical sync in one. Pin 1 on the Saturn video out is pure composite sync, i.e a sync signal that isn't also video. That's what you want, composite sync rather than sync on composite video. Yes its confusing especially since composite sync sounds like composite video

The NTSC Saturn does not require a mod for composite sync, the PAL Saturn does. However, finding a cable that's wired for composite sync or even can be modified can be tricky. I'm acually chatting to a contact right now about producing some however, I'll keep you all posted.

Sounds good to me. I wonder if the lead Raven sold me was a Composite Sync (that would explain why most Saturn cables that reads "RGB" in auctions description by my experience are displaying Compsoite Video on the Coosis, unlike the Raven cable which is giving me rich RGB according to the the Universal HD Adapter) It could be I'm just speculating and it is just a regular RGB cable... on the other what if the cable was custom made after all. You did imply these Composite Sync types are rare, you think I hit the jackpot? The way you described the horizontal and vertical synchronization method of that cable type it reminds me of RGBHV for some reason.

Anyway I found this interesting feature in the XRGB-3. There appears to be a freeze frame setting. I wondered if it could be used to capture screenshots and use the pics as screen-savers. I tried it out in B0 mode and extracted a still frame from Capcom vs. SNK 2. I noticed when I power off the console connected to the XRGB-3 the frame I snagged is still there and the display monitor won't fade out or turn-off (D IN 2 VGA port). What is the deal with this thing anyway? Did Micomsoft just put it in there as some kind of gimmick? Or does it serve as a practical use like capturing screenshots and saving them for show when there's no BG. It would make sense if there was a option some place on the menu that saves your freeze frames.

Hows that venture coming with your friend btw?

[BuckoA51]

I've contacted Raven Games about a composite sync cable and they told me all their Saturn cables were wired for sync on composite video and not composite sync. They also said they were not able to alter the cable probably because they buy the 10 pin connectors pre wired from somewhere.

I've not used it, but I'm sure the freeze frame's been discussed before, you'll have to do a search for it.

[SGGG2]

I get jailbars and drop outs on my Japanese Skeleton Saturn, so I soldered the composite video sync from pin 8 to csync on pin 1, and now the colors are dark and messed up and there's a scrolling interference line. Is there something I'm missing here?

http://www.wda-fr.org/forum/images/uplo ... rn_189.png

EDIT: Apparently, you're better off modding the Saturn itself: http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13966

[BuckoA51]

There's nothing connected to pin 1 on that SCART diagram, here's how mine is wired:-

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32165624@N04/5410658049/

Actually that's a lie, pin 8 and 16 are not connected at all on my cable. Those pins are for RGB and widescreen selection on a standard TV,but they are not needed by the XRGB3.

EDIT: Certainly looks a damn sight easier modifying the SCART cable to me! That's IF (and it's a big if) you can find a suitable cable that actually has something attached to pin 1 in the first place.

[SGGG2]

That's the way my cable's wired now (I think)...

[Rock Man]

I've contacted Raven Games about a composite sync cable and they told me all their Saturn cables were wired for sync on composite video and not composite sync. They also said they were not able to alter the cable probably because they buy the 10 pin connectors pre wired from somewhere.

I've not used it, but I'm sure the freeze frame's been discussed before, you'll have to do a search for it.

Yeah, sounds like a good idea. I'll search the forum. I'm surprised that frame freeze thing was talked about before since it seems small.

[Konsolkongen]

I get jailbars and drop outs on my Japanese Skeleton Saturn, so I soldered the composite video sync from pin 8 to csync on pin 1, and now the colors are dark and messed up and there's a scrolling interference line. Is there something I'm missing here?

You need to make sure that there is no connection between composite video and composite sync. You only need the sync.

If you have soldered a wire between pin 1 and 8 then you'll have a short between the two sync types.

[SGGG2]

Ahh! That loose wire I cut was the ground!

The colors are back to normal and the image quality is definitely better, but there's full screen horizontal banding shooting out from life bars, meters, score, etc.

EDIT: Pin 1 Seems to work okay on my US Model 1. It's something with the whites, when "pause" flashes on Panzer Dragoon Zwei the banding gets worse in time. I've gone back to pin 8 and everything's back to normal with my Skeleton Saturn.

[Konsolkongen]

I've been thinking of buying a Skeleton Saturn for a long time now. If and when I do I will mod the console for C.sync and I can post some pictures of the process. I don't know if you can wait that long though

[blackoak]

Thanks Artemio, that worked for me. I had to enter the emergency mode (PCinP + power) to get USB functionality again, and I downloaded the Japanese updater (http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/xrgb3_update ... v2_12a.exe). I just installed the newest Japanese firmware as I can read Japanese (and micomsoft actually addresses this problem in their FAQ on their site, as well... just had to find it). Weird that the standalone English installer would be missing so much, though. Anyway, all is well now!

[SGGG2]

I've been thinking of buying a Skeleton Saturn for a long time now. If and when I do I will mod the console for C.sync and I can post some pictures of the process. I don't know if you can wait that long though

I have a feeling the problems are related to the fact that I lost pin 14 on the 32 pin IC chip trying to install a crappy mod chip 10,000 times. The system work fine otherwise. Should have gone with one from consolepassion.co.uk.

[Artemio]

Thanks Artemio, that worked for me. I had to enter the emergency mode (PCinP + power) to get USB functionality again, and I downloaded the Japanese updater (http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/xrgb3_update ... v2_12a.exe). I just installed the newest Japanese firmware as I can read Japanese (and micomsoft actually addresses this problem in their FAQ on their site, as well... just had to find it). Weird that the standalone English installer would be missing so much, though. Anyway, all is well now!

You can still install the English firmware, with either updater now.. Both will work with both firmwares when both are installed. I updated the wiki to include this information.

[angryswede]

Sorry to bump my earlier question - but this is getting so annoying and I can't seem to find an answer to the cause.
To the point, I have a ntsc n64 unit with a late serial number, connected
to s-video 1 on the xrgb-3. Output B1 to a Dell 2209wa via vga.
In some high contrast situations with bright whites I get a black screen for a second or two and it looks exactly like the KOF example on the wiki.
Earlier in the thread Artemio also wrote about loosing sync and getting a sudden black screen and experimenting with a lm1881.
I'm curious if I have the same problem but with s-video? Is there a solution? Will viletims rgb mod with the XC9536XL solve it?