OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[Galdelico]

What do you mean by "on the fly"? Line triple only applies to 240p inputs, so if the input switches from 240p to 480i, the OSSC outputs a 480p signal.

Apologies, I worded it quite poorly.

What I meant was: if I connect a PS1 to the OSSC, I can select Line Triple no problem.
But if I only have a PS2 - in order to play my PS1 games - what happens? The console doesn't boot in 240p, but instead in 480i (I believe?), so Line Triple is a no go, and Line Double is the only option, there. Hence my question... Can I switch back to Line Triple, once the PS1 game I wanna play has started up, and is running at 240p? Or am I forced to keep Line Double? Hope it makes sense, now.

Whoever suggested to use the porch settings in advanced timings to center the image so the madking would work correctly, you are my hero! PERFECT!

Awesome! How does it work? Any chance it's a universal tweak, good to share and replicate on different displays?

[Thomago]

What I meant was: if I connect a PS1 to the OSSC, I can select Line Triple no problem.
But if I only have a PS2 - in order to play my PS1 games - what happens? The console doesn't boot in 240p, but instead in 480i (I believe?), so Line Triple is a no go, and Line Double is the only option, there. Hence my question... Can I switch back to Line Triple, once the PS1 game I wanna play has started up, and is running at 240p? Or am I forced to keep Line Double? Hope it makes sense, now.

No need to do anything - the OSSC switches between linetriple and -double automatically based on input resolution!

[Gnomenthusiast]

I don't think it's display specific. It's to do with how the incoming signal is treated. Here's what I did:

1. I reset all the settings as a quick way to reset the masks in the post processing menu.

2. I went to advanced timings under sampling options and went to horizontal back porch length and adjusted it until the image (in this case the menu in a multi cart) was exactly in the center, I.e. It had equal number of pixels border either side.

3. Repeated the above for the vertical. The display will lose and regain sync as you adjust he numbers.

4. I went to post processing and increased the numbers on the horizontal and vertical masks until all the overscan was hidden.

It's great!

[Galdelico]

No need to do anything - the OSSC switches between linetriple and -double automatically based on input resolution!

I don't think it's display specific. It's to do with how the incoming signal is treated. Here's what I did:

1. I reset all the settings as a quick way to reset the masks in the post processing menu.

2. I went to advanced timings under sampling options and went to horizontal back porch length and adjusted it until the image (in this case the menu in a multi cart) was exactly in the center, I.e. It had equal number of pixels border either side.

3. Repeated the above for the vertical. The display will lose and regain sync as you adjust he numbers.

4. I went to post processing and increased the numbers on the horizontal and vertical masks until all the overscan was hidden.

It's great!

Damn WIZARDRY.

Thanks guys, I'm thrilled to test this magic box out... Hopefully, a couple more days.

Oh, and I'm sharing your tips on GAF too (with credits and all), hope you don't mind!

[CobraKing]

^^^
Fantastic shots. Can't wait for Marqs to implement line 4X & 5X - hopefully those have better compatibility than 3X.

IIRC those modes are expected to have much worse compatibility than 3x.

Ahh jeez, thanks for raining on my parade!

Well my TV's about 6 years old now so it might be due for a replacement once a solid 3X-5X compatibility list is out.

[Xyga]

^^^
Fantastic shots. Can't wait for Marqs to implement line 4X & 5X - hopefully those have better compatibility than 3X.

IIRC those modes are expected to have much worse compatibility than 3x.

Ahh jeez, thanks for raining on my parade!

Well my TV's about 6 years old now so it might be due for a replacement once a solid 3X-5X compatibility list is out.

As we go there will never be a significant, useful list of compatible displays, because manufacturers release new series of TVs and monitors every year, plus countless other models and updates in the course of the year (modern TV firmwares/OS also receive frequent updates, some affecting compatibility).

Rather the thing to do is identify which among the best displays available on the market at the time, are compatible with the OSSC's x3 and up modes.

Basically every year there's a couple of Samsung or Sony, even LG and whatever brand, that top the reviews at least on the gaming performance side, all we need for a list is to know how those particular sets like the OSSC or not.
The list will grow up to cover 2~3 years of models, which will always be useful since old stocks increase our choices.

Actually you know what guys ? get in touch with the guys from Rtings or hdtvtest.co.uk, or avforums I don't know just whoever is willing to include the OSSC compatibility in their reviews, and send them a unit.
Even if they only do a 'best gaming sets for Xmas' kind of roundup every year where they try the TVs with the OSSC among other things, that's already plenty for us to get actually useful technical information.

Trying to build a list with whatever display people have is nice, but that won't help since most are already products from the past.

[lettuce]

Any news on the availability of the dvi audio module?

[Thomago]

Actually you know what guys ? get in touch with the guys from Rtings or hdtvtest.co.uk, or avforums I don't know just whoever is willing to include the OSSC compatibility in their reviews, and send them a unit.
Even if they only do a 'best gaming sets for Xmas' kind of roundup every year where they try the TVs with the OSSC among other things, that's already plenty for us to get actually useful technical information.

Good idea. And it would be great marketing!

[BuckoA51]

Quite happy to do this of course, but I just can't see them being interested in such a niche product.

Still, Ars Technica has one (still no sign of a review though) so you never know.

As we go there will never be a significant, useful list of compatible displays, because manufacturers release new series of TVs and monitors every year,

Yeah it's tough, but I guess some list is better than no list at all. What makes it harder is people test with different systems, I mean I haven't known PC Engine to be incompatible with any TVs yet, but others say it is.

Older line doublers had weird compatibility problems too.. look back at the XRGB3 thread if you don't believe me

[Xyga]

Your other options are to set up a portable/suitcase OSSC rig to test directly inside AV stores where the sales people are nice.

Or much better: create a ready software testing suite like Artemio's only with specific tests mimicking the OSSC's essential modes, so anyone can test displays by himself and share the results.

The OSSC is supposed to be more than an old XRGB, linetriple is fantastic and easily makes 50% of the device's appeal if not more (who goes back to linedouble after experiencing it?), so I think it's kind of a big deal that no one can know if it'll work with his display or not.

[Harrumph]

[...] I think it's kind of a big deal that no one can know if it'll work with his display or not.

That's not strictly true as one can test with modelines using a PC, although it requires Nvidia card or Linux OS. Admittedly, I never tried myself, and maybe the modeline given is now outdated considering Marqs wrote that post nearly 2 years ago... However, there's also modelines for the NES/SNES optmized mode on the wiki, so I assume it works still.
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... x#p1070900
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Optimal_timings

Maybe Marqs can clarify, and a note on this in the "Essential resources" thread on videogameperfection forums could be helpful, people have been asking this question many times over the course of this thread.

[Xyga]

You're perfectly right, I had in mind a little app or something, already including most common modelines for people to try with their PC, but the hardware+drivers requirements might limit the possibilities indeed.

[neorichieb1971]

I asked HDTVtest.co.uk to review 240p compatibility in its reviews. They never even responded.

Although on the surface of the site it looks all professional, I get the feeling behind the scenes its a different matter. They don't even review that many TV's.

[Xyga]

I asked HDTVtest.co.uk...
...They don't even review that many TV's.

Indeed they don't do much now, today the big players (in English) are Rtings and avforums.

[Simon Belmont]

I mean I haven't known PC Engine to be incompatible with any TVs yet, but others say it is.

My PC Engine doesn't work with OSSC and my model TV, but the min I put it through a cheap scaler with OSSC it worked.

[KnuckleheadFlow]

Sorry if I missed this, but are there any plasmas (TV or monitor) that are particularly good for the OSSC? Low latency, deep blacks, ok with the resolution, etc? I'd prefer one that's <40" and older (ie cheap). I've never had a plasma but I'd like to see how it stacks up with an LCD.

Would one that's natively 480p or 720p work better? Or would those be so old their downsides would outweigh that?
Was it figured out why wildchild's tv accepted 3x once audio was added with the hdf integral? I'm making mine with Borti's audio add on, could that help with 3x compatibility?

[eric90000]

Your other options are to set up a portable/suitcase OSSC rig to test directly inside AV stores where the sales people are nice.

I had this exact thing in mind, I recently bought a Sony 705C set from Amazon and unfortunately it doesn't accept LineX3. An LG and Samsung in my house do however, so maybe they're the best bet.... I'm tempted to sell the Sony.

I'd love to write up a short list of good gaming TV's, go to some stores with the OSSC and something like a Genesis in a little case all hooked up and ready to go. I'm sure if the manager gets the impression you're going to buy one they'd let you connect whatever you want to the TV to test.



P.S. I bought this DVI - HDMI cable off Amazon and it works perfectly - Cheap too : https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01 ... UTF8&psc=1

[Gnomenthusiast]

Well, things keep improving!

Today a cartridge arrived in the post, so that I could test the SNES that has sat on the shelf for many years, and.....











Nice!

[marqs]

[...] I think it's kind of a big deal that no one can know if it'll work with his display or not.

That's not strictly true as one can test with modelines using a PC, although it requires Nvidia card or Linux OS. Admittedly, I never tried myself, and maybe the modeline given is now outdated considering Marqs wrote that post nearly 2 years ago... However, there's also modelines for the NES/SNES optmized mode on the wiki, so I assume it works still.
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... x#p1070900
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Optimal_timings

Maybe Marqs can clarify, and a note on this in the "Essential resources" thread on videogameperfection forums could be helpful, people have been asking this question many times over the course of this thread.

Those old modelines are still valid - I probably should add them on wiki along with some additional ones. I still think PC is the best test device for checking linetriple, refresh rate etc. compatibility of displays/capture cards. I recall a Windows tool called Powerstrip that enabled custom modelines for graphics adapters from multiple vendors. That worked fine over a decade ago, so there's probably some similar and more modern tool available.

[Thomago]

Powerstrip seems to have ceased development years ago, but Custom Resolution Utility (https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thre ... tility-CRU) might be an alternative.

[Galdelico]

Hey guys, I'm doing my first tests with the OSSC, everything seems to work perfectly, yet I'm having some troubles with the scanlines (it's probably due to my pretty old Asus monitor)... LineX3 works just fine, I'm in generic 4:3, horizontal scanlines, on auto, at 87% intensity, aligned to bottom, but it looks like a line every other one is lighter than the the previous and the next. And, to a closer look, they don't seem perfecly even either. I tried to align them to top, and nothing changes, while it's not clear what I can adjust, if I set them on manual. Any tips? Thanks in advance!

[Thomago]

This is probably caused by bad scaling on your monitor's side. Maybe try another monitor/TV?

[Galdelico]

That's most likely the case. The monitor is quite old, now, and I planned to get a new one anyway.
I'm also seeing a noticeable jailbar effect, with my Japanese Mega Drive 2 and scanlines off. It becomes invisible with scanlines, and I never noticed it on my Trinitron, so I guess that's another signal that the monitor isn't up to dat OSSC goodness.

[Voultar]

That's most likely the case. The monitor is quite old, now, and I planned to get a new one anyway.
I'm also seeing a noticeable jailbar effect, with my Japanese Mega Drive 2 and scanlines off. It becomes invisible with scanlines, and I never noticed it on my Trinitron, so I guess that's another signal that the monitor isn't up to dat OSSC goodness.

The Jailbars you're seeing on your Mega-Drive II are the result of the color carrier coupling into the RGB inputs as they make their way to the encoder, 85% of the time.

[korpse413]

Received my OSSC and it is awesome! I am having issues with my Model 1 Genesis though. Exact same issues reported as this post; his video that he posts is same thing I am experiencing with sync, same cables and everything, and yes I will join and post in your forum Matt ). All of my cables are from, yes, co.uk. and have never had issues with my BVM. I have heard horror stories of the quality these cables provide from other users, so I just figured I lucked out. Seems like it might not be the case. I have been meaning to crack my scart leads open and taking a lot at the innards and see if I could add things to make the cables the best they can be, I just need reference guides for pretty much every console (I don't really want to re-buy all these cables).

[Galdelico]

The Jailbars you're seeing on your Mega-Drive II are the result of the color carrier coupling into the RGB inputs as they make their way to the encoder, 85% of the time.

I see, thanks for clarifying!
They become completely invisible with scanlines, though, this must be the reason I've never noticed them with my CRT TV.

And, update!
After some testing last night, I can cofirm it's most likely my monitor being not 100% able to display LineX3 correctly. It's pretty old, and I was totally expecting some issues with Line Triple mode.

Line Double, on the other hand - aside from outputting at a slightly wider ratio, even with the screen forced to 4:3 (but I've read that's supposed to happen) - looks pretty phenomenal.

I mean:







Needless to say, I'm feeling pushed to get my new monitor way before the time I was planning to...

[Thomago]

Needless to say, I'm feeling pushed to get my new monitor way before the time I was planning to...

I feel you. My monitor at first glance works fine with the OSSC, but it is unable to display several of the OSSC's output modes aspect ratio-correct... I don't even have the money to buy a new monitor :-/

[tacoguy64]

Well I wasnt expecting this thing to come this early but it was finally delivered to me yesterday after noon. Good thing my dog woke me up or else I would have had to waited till Monday to try the OSSC. Since I wasnt ready I had to make a quick trip to Frys to buy a DVI to VGA adapter.

So far I have only connected the device to my panasonic plasma but i am liking most of the results. The SNES is kinda messed up with the sync but I haven't fiddled around much with that. The Genesis, Saturn, and DC all look fantastic. Both the Saturn and the Genesis can take advantage of line triple mode, you guys werent kidding when you said it looks good. Though I think I need to mess around with the vertical position of the OSSC, the screen is set too low so it cuts off the bottom part. Menus weren't too bad either but maybe someone can make a correct overlay?
The DC looks better than hooking it up directly through vga to the TV. Not sure why that would be the case but in anyways I aint complaining. I don't have my frameister with me at this moment but I think I can say the DC looks better on my plasma connected through the OSSC than the frameister.

I still got lots of things to mess with and I want to try my pc crt but will have to wait for another vga to dvi converter to arrive. My initial impressions are good for the most part. I like the physical size and build quality of the product. A bummer I cant get SNES working at this time but i'll read about it more later. There were also some video drop off with my Saturn. Not sure what that was about but I'm sure it can get fixed when i look into it. Other than that, I am liking this thing. Well worth the money. Might do a written review or maybe a youtube video for it, you know to spread the word

[marqs]

Received my OSSC and it is awesome! I am having issues with my Model 1 Genesis though. Exact same issues reported as this post; his video that he posts is same thing I am experiencing with sync, same cables and everything, and yes I will join and post in your forum Matt ). All of my cables are from, yes, co.uk. and have never had issues with my BVM. I have heard horror stories of the quality these cables provide from other users, so I just figured I lucked out. Seems like it might not be the case. I have been meaning to crack my scart leads open and taking a lot at the innards and see if I could add things to make the cables the best they can be, I just need reference guides for pretty much every console (I don't really want to re-buy all these cables).

If you have MD composite cable around, try connecting it to Y (green) input of component connector (AV2) and see if it syncs. The "clean sync" MD cables I've bumped into haven't been very well designed, so that might explain your issue.

[RocketBelt]

Powerstrip seems to have ceased development years ago, but Custom Resolution Utility (https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thre ... tility-CRU) might be an alternative.

For intel graphics there is DTD Calculator http://www.clevertec.co.uk/productsfree.htm