CYGNI: AGB | Steam, PS5 and Xbox Series 2023

[Eyvah_Ehyeh]

I get the feeling that to some degree people have for some reason just decided not to like this game, and one way this becomes clear to me is this inconspicuous thing that people complain about the music not being fitting for something "set in space", and I'm like... now I know you're just making up excuses to justify your feelings. Frankly, it seems ridiculous to me, to have this take. You can say the music doesn't suit you, sure, I mean I went through a couple of stages of the game and then turned it off as I do with ALL shmup music (because I prefer some chill zelda lofi beats for my shooting, thank you, or in this case some more atmospheric dark void stuff) so the music in some sense "wasn't for me", but just taking it at face value, for what it is and it's intended function and place in the game - I think one couldn't say that it's much worse than somewhat competently executed, and serviceable to the (arguably, even if I'm not gonna make that argument) better graphics (which have been lauded universally as eye candy), and gameplay.

Not here to argue, really, just sharing an observation that makes sense to me.

[blue_z]

I get the feeling that to some degree people have for some reason just decided not to like this game, and one way this becomes clear to me is this inconspicuous thing that people complain about the music not being fitting for something "set in space", and I'm like... now I know you're just making up excuses to justify your feelings. Frankly, it seems ridiculous to me, to have this take. You can say the music doesn't suit you, sure, I mean I went through a couple of stages of the game and then turned it off as I do with ALL shmup music (because I prefer some chill zelda lofi beats for my shooting, thank you, or in this case some more atmospheric dark void stuff) so the music in some sense "wasn't for me", but just taking it at face value, for what it is and it's intended function and place in the game - I think one couldn't say that it's much worse than somewhat competently executed, and serviceable to the (arguably, even if I'm not gonna make that argument) better graphics (which have been lauded universally as eye candy), and gameplay.

Not here to argue, really, just sharing an observation that makes sense to me.

There’s a lot of good criticism of the game out there but I think this take is spot on. There’s also a ton of “criticism” from people who aren’t taking the game at face value, going in with preconceptions, not even giving the game a real chance, then pretending like they actually know the ins and outs of the game.

Again there’s plenty to improve. But this game has a lot of merit that’s getting overlooked by people who wrote it off after 15-30 minutes.

Personally I can’t put the game down. Finally cleared hard difficulty and going through arcade mode. I hope the devs stick with it because they have something pretty damn cool here.

[mrsmr2]

I'd like to know if there's going to be a PS5 demo. My PC can't run this well enough and the epic launcher is janky which is not a good combination.

[blue_z]

In fact Evnah I think Aktane’s video on it is a great example of your point.

He has some good criticism but he only played through once, barely messed around with weapons or upgrades, and just got a good bit about it wrong or simply wasn’t aware of things someone who actually gave it a fair shot would know.

[hamfighterx]

I get the feeling that to some degree people have for some reason just decided not to like this game

The devs & publisher seem to have really threaded the needle here, managing to put out a game that hits the sweet spot of getting negative reactions from the hardcore STG community while also not seeming to really appeal to the more mainstream audience they appear to have been going for.

Here's a review with the same old bullshit we often hear from the games press, featuring classic hits such as "There's no story!" and "It's too short!" (which is kinda mental, since from all of what I've seen it appears that most STG fans would be more likely to think the levels and boss fights are excessively long):
https://automaton-media.com/en/news/kon ... there-yet/

"However, many reviewers felt deceived by CYGNI’s flashy release date trailer. The focus on the pilot and her personal belongings (like family photos) suggested that the game would explore her character and backstory, only for there to be no story in the actual game."

We also get the dumb complaint that the graphics were too good, so people expected a full AAA title instead of a nice looking indie shooter and were disappointed. What do you want - should the small team with lots of graphical expertise from film animation just TRY to make the game look shitty to set expectations that it's not God of War in space? I mean, it's somewhat fair to say that Konami's marketing this as "the dawn of a new era of shooting games" is obvious hyperbole and doesn't really reflect an indie title from a small team. But come on, that's standard sounding marketing copy - if you are blindly accepting Konami press release puffery as the gospel truth, that's more on you than the game.

It seems that CYGNI’s stellar graphics gave many players the impression that they were buying a large-scale AAA game as opposed to an indie title. Japanese game blogger and YouTuber Raayu Futaba expressed his opinion on X: “I’ve just cleared CYGNI: All Guns Blazing on easy mode, and I can’t believe that Konami is marketing a shooter that will likely be compared to something like RXN Raijin as “the dawn of a new era of shooting games.”

I haven't even played the game yet, downloaded it on EGS the other day but have yet to fire it up. I have no dog in this fight. But it certainly does seem that the devs can't win here, with audiences on both sides of the STG enthusiast/casual divide responding with fickle complaints. About a game that everyone has been able to download for FREE.

[-Fish-]

If Cyngi really had a proper arcade mode with selectable difficulties, deeper scoring system, and all the other arcade bells and whistles it would really come to life. I already enjoy what it is currently but I'd really like to see the devs spend a bit more time polishing things up if funds allow.

I'd consider myself a hardcore STG'er and just a hardcore gamer in general and absolutely love this game. I'm old but not necessarily set in my ways, nor do I enjoy yelling at the clouds or disregarding a game because it breaks a certain mold.

Give me 10 more years and I may be there though

[ExitPlanetDust]

In fact Evnah I think Aktane’s video on it is a great example of your point.

He has some good criticism but he only played through once, barely messed around with weapons or upgrades, and just got a good bit about it wrong or simply wasn’t aware of things someone who actually gave it a fair shot would know.

I watched his video earlier and I agree with you. A user named fractalcactus has a brilliant comment that almost perfectly articulates how I feel about the game and the commentary it’s getting from the more visible shmup critics. Aktane is almost upset about the game at one point in the video. He works himself up over some of the design choices and gets emotional over the idea that he can’t play the game the way he feels he should be able to. He focuses so much on this that he can’t just sit back and understand why he’s failing.

[-Fish-]

In fact Evnah I think Aktane’s video on it is a great example of your point.

He has some good criticism but he only played through once, barely messed around with weapons or upgrades, and just got a good bit about it wrong or simply wasn’t aware of things someone who actually gave it a fair shot would know.

I watched his video earlier and I agree with you. A user named fractalcactus has a brilliant comment that almost perfectly articulates how I feel about the game and the commentary it’s getting from the more visible shmup critics. Aktane is almost upset about the game at one point in the video. He works himself up over some of the design choices and gets emotional over the idea that he can’t play the game the way he feels he should be able to. He focuses so much on this that he can’t just sit back and understand why he’s failing.

It's a tale as old as time. When people are starved for a game genre and then have an uncut gemstone placed in the palm of their hand they get upset at the potential of what they think it should be whilst it is clearly not. I'm guilty of this as well truth be told.

[ExitPlanetDust]

Eh, we all are.

[Eyvah_Ehyeh]

I guess now it comes down to how open the developers are to the criticism that they've gotten. I've heard that they weren't before release, and I'm sure that they're gonna stand by most of their original design decisions, but I do hope that they make the best decisions they could at this point forward at the very least. Outside has basically become my favorite shmup creator, and REDNEG ALLSTARS SWING-BY-EDITION that was released this year is really good and could easily become my shmup GOTY, but he does release games that are very similar to what he's already put out, whereas Cygni has got me really excited because it's something that although people want to reduce it to just the same old euro jank does feel very fresh and full of potential and has gone in a direction which I myself could have gone if I were to create my own shmup, even if I think the hyperbole might have hurt the game more than done it any good. As to how degenerate or trivial the gameplay becomes if you play really well - no clue. I'm leaving it aside for now since the devs are hard at work at a patch.

[AntiramDSR]

I guess now it comes down to how open the developers are to the criticism that they've gotten. I've heard that they weren't before release, and I'm sure that they're gonna stand by most of their original design decisions, but I do hope that they make the best decisions they could at this point forward at the very least. Outside has basically become my favorite shmup creator, and REDNEG ALLSTARS SWING-BY-EDITION that was released this year is really good and could easily become my shmup GOTY, but he does release games that are very similar to what he's already put out, whereas Cygni has got me really excited because it's something that although people want to reduce it to just the same old euro jank does feel very fresh and full of potential and has gone in a direction which I myself could have gone if I were to create my own shmup, even if I think the hyperbole might have hurt the game more than done it any good. As to how degenerate or trivial the gameplay becomes if you play really well - no clue. I'm leaving it aside for now since the devs are hard at work at a patch.

they are aware of the lacking arcade mode and even a deeper-scoring system was planned... but they run out of time.

if they only adress those 2 things i would be happy enough. as long as there are leaderboards for each stage and difficulty in this reworked arcade-mode!

fingers crossed they did well enough on sales to keep going.

[velo]

CYGNI is free on Epic games. Offer ends tomorrow.

https://store.epicgames.com/en-US/p/cyg ... ing-98f872

[tadaito]

I guess now it comes down to how open the developers are to the criticism that they've gotten

They were pretty hostile before release towards criticism, and quite arrogant, I was surprised when I saw the game had come out, I was sure something with such pigheaded leads would be doomed to never be finished, but hey.

The inertia that the game has means I'm not even going to try it for free, it really is a cardinal sin, through and through.
Not that my quite high end PC could run it, Unreal Engine 5 sure is heavy

[maximo310]

Picked it up from EGS & put 3ish hrs so far.

-Had to grind a bit at the beginning for some upgrades in the regular story mode since your default weapon power is not that great. Once I got enough for the 1st homing missile upgrade & homing main shot & radial damage boost, the game gets quite a bit easier at least for normal & I didn't have too many issues outside of the game hard-crashing my entire PC twice.

Pros: The graphics are pretty nice, circle strafing can be fun.

- Mixed:
-The music is pretty hit or miss; some tracks drag out forever.

-The default move sensitivity is way too high & putting to 1 fixes most of the issues, even if some bosses are still difficult to micrododge due to the movement acceleration ( like the stage 6 boss, especially on hard). Cutscenes are nice, even if they sometimes cut off prematurely imo.
- The shield/missile system ( & being able to swap in between them) is an interesting idea, but it feels a bit clumsy to have to manually allocate pickups to missile ( even with the HUD on at the bottom).

- The secondary aiming for the right stick for hitting ground enemies is cool, although true analog movement would be nice, especially when you need to readjust the homing trajectory to another enemy.

- Cons/stuff I would improve:

: Stage length/enemy variety/behavior: The first stage being 15+ minutes is way too long, and while some stages are better about this than others ( stages 4/5 weren't as bad), they generally feel like they drag on for longer than expected and with no checkpoints on normal/hard. On top of that, a lot of the enemies tend to follow the same behavior of swarming around you & firing all aimed bullets. So a lot of the strategy comes down to macrododging/circle strafing around the screen or even just damage boosting through certain areas, and feels very repetitive. Certain big enemies also have buttloads of HP, so its easier to just dodge around them & have them leave the screen than engaging them, so those sections would probably work better with HP tweaking/ having patterns aimed around you.

- The ground shot sections also grinds the pace of a game to a halt, ground shot could use a slight damage buff so that you can kill the bigger ground targets.

-Screen shake- Very distracting; you likely want to turn this off completely.

- Bosses: - These look great, but don't feel super engaging because of long damage windows where you have to wait for the boss to become vulnerable. A couple of the later bosses ( stages 6/7) are a bit better about this, but still take 4-5 minutes to destroy.

- Tweak arcade mode to have more customizability/weapon options.

-Graphical optimization - I'm running this on a 5600x/2080 and even on low settings certain stages had multiple 1min+ segments with tons of frame-rate stuttering, which was extremely distracting.

Honestly, I don't think the game is too bad, but there's a lot of QoL tweaks that could make it a lot better.

[kid aphex]

They were pretty hostile before release towards criticism, and quite arrogant, I was surprised when I saw the game had come out, I was sure something with such pigheaded leads would be doomed to never be finished, but hey.

Aint this the truth.

[kid aphex]

There's a part of me that appreciates all the effort that went into refining the graphics and the aesthetic, for sure.
But the more I watch videos of it, the more it reminds me of the feeling I got watching videos of Sine Mora before I ever got my hands on it:

"This LOOKS cool, but I can tell the gameplay is off in a way that's going to make playing through it UN-fun."

Even in the first stage there are encounters with enemies and subsequent bullet barrages that look like they had no thought put into them.
These situations, ones that make getting hit unavoidable, make the entire point of a shmup UN-fun.

Imagine playing a FPS game where the aim was consistently off,
Or a driving game where the opponents constantly crashed into you,
Or a puzzle game that never gave you the right pieces,
etc.



Sound and visuals are really impressive though. Really gotta give credit where it's due.

[kid aphex]

And honestly, I am hoping this game does well and inspires a whole new generation of gamers to try making their own shmups.
I know if I was a kid, I'd be absolutely blown-away by the vibe and how cool everything looks.

[Jonpachi]

I've been fully removing myself from any discussions on this one. I haven't read this thread, nor a single mainstream review. Haven't watched the Electric Underground or Aktane's reviews.

Got my copy today, and going in blissfully blind.

[Jonpachi]

Who’s got a good controls mapping for me? I swapped shield and weapon fill, putting weapon on LB, and that’s helping a lot but it’s not perfect.

[ExitPlanetDust]

I’m using the default config with a DualSense. Analog movement feels good with its small dead zones at movement speeds 2 and 3. 2 feels the best, but I’ve hit a few scenarios in which it’s a hair too slow to outrun some attacks. With regard to button assignments, the only thing that trips me up is missiles swapping from R3 to square when air to ground weapons are engaged.

I need to get back into this. I’m working on a playthrough for something else at the moment.

[AntiramDSR]

Who’s got a good controls mapping for me? I swapped shield and weapon fill, putting weapon on LB, and that’s helping a lot but it’s not perfect.

to me, assigning (at default unassigned) autofire to A (X) and then missiles on the right trigger made the difference in finger-acrobatics

[Jonpachi]

Who’s got a good controls mapping for me? I swapped shield and weapon fill, putting weapon on LB, and that’s helping a lot but it’s not perfect.

to me, assigning (at default unassigned) autofire to A (X) and then missiles on the right trigger made the difference in finger-acrobatics

But how are you aiming with the right stick if you’re holding a face button down?

[AntiramDSR]

Who’s got a good controls mapping for me? I swapped shield and weapon fill, putting weapon on LB, and that’s helping a lot but it’s not perfect.

to me, assigning (at default unassigned) autofire to A (X) and then missiles on the right trigger made the difference in finger-acrobatics

But how are you aiming with the right stick if you’re holding a face button down?

it's a toggle button... you just activate it at the beginning of the level.

you than only need to manually hold left trigger for ground-attacks

that's their interpretation of "autofire", they took it literally

[Nautilus]

On PS5 controllers (or Xbox), L3  is meant for missiles alongside "X" by default.

Having two keys assigned to one weapon by default is not an optimal setup from our part, and we were too late to fix this when the product was shipped since some testers used X while others used L3. It slipped through our fingers, no pun intended.
To make matters worse when the ground weapon is engaged L3 missile fire gets re-binded and does not fire the missiles (I think this is what got confusing), this was a crucial find since gameplay wise its very important to use missiles during ground combat. At some point this must've gotten disconnected and was not reported and we found out last minute in-house testing. 

So in short L3 was to be the standard for all missiles and should still function with ground. From our side at least it was easy to navigate using the second stick and press missiles on it when need be, some players prefer to change this (maybe some improvements below from our side could help with those options).

Moving forward for the next update:

1 - To fix button assignment issues mentioned and make sure only one button per weapon are assigned by default.
2 - To try and include double key bind for some instances (ground weapon hold down button + usage of secondary button) for example auto lock-on quick target swapping or another weapon of players choosing. Since some buttons free up when ground is engaged and this could give players more options.
3 - QWERTY or other key bindings made compatible and adjustable for various keyboards and not locked to arrows and WASD.

Many other adjustments on the list but these are some of them we are looking into fixing.

[Nautilus]

Picked it up from EGS & put 3ish hrs so far.

- The ground shot sections also grinds the pace of a game to a halt, ground shot could use a slight damage buff so that you can kill the bigger ground targets.

-Screen shake- Very distracting; you likely want to turn this off completely.

- Bosses: - These look great, but don't feel super engaging because of long damage windows where you have to wait for the boss to become vulnerable. A couple of the later bosses ( stages 6/7) are a bit better about this, but still take 4-5 minutes to destroy.

- Tweak arcade mode to have more customizability/weapon options.

-Graphical optimization - I'm running this on a 5600x/2080 and even on low settings certain stages had multiple 1min+ segments with tons of frame-rate stuttering, which was extremely distracting.

Honestly, I don't think the game is too bad, but there's a lot of QoL tweaks that could make it a lot better.

very quick unofficial updates on some points:

- Next update will include some more optimizations (while we can't cover everything on a first patch we are already seeing some big improvements with minor adjustments).
- We intend to make all arcade weapons fully customizable with no in-game cost attached so all should be available there + upgrade menus throughout and info are being revamped for better hints and communication.
- Upgrades in story mode are also going through some rebalancing and less cost for less grinding.
- We plan to display initial pop ups as a quick wizard to help players tweak their modes (remove cam shake, HUD sizes etc.) before first time play through.

Hint at ground shot sections, we can upload a video soon to demonstrate, but most of the time we get to kill them relatively fast. For instance Stage 1 on Medium (no upgrades) first encounter of ground units get all killed before the player passes over them. later all ground units and bosses killed same settings on same map. It comes down using both missiles and ground with correct timing.

[Jonpachi]

Playing on PS5 for a few hours now, and there seems to be a pretty serious hitching issue with trophies. There is a very clear pause in the action when one pops, and I've had one full hard crash happen as well. I tend to keep Trophy notifications on, but it might be a good idea to turn them off with this title.

[Nautilus]

I guess now it comes down to how open the developers are to the criticism that they've gotten

They were pretty hostile before release towards criticism, and quite arrogant, I was surprised when I saw the game had come out, I was sure something with such pigheaded leads would be doomed to never be finished, but hey.

The inertia that the game has means I'm not even going to try it for free, it really is a cardinal sin, through and through.
Not that my quite high end PC could run it, Unreal Engine 5 sure is heavy

There's been a lot of discussion about inertia and I have tried to explain it many times but I think its being misunderstood or ignored (by some). I will try again maybe people here will have the patience to understand what is going on in this current of the game:

1 - Game has 100% NO inertia and No acceleration while using Analog sticks. its mapped one to one.

2 - On D-Pad and Keyboard Only - game has (in milliseconds) "acceleration ONLY " this is the time taking the ship speed from 0 to 100%. For any casual player this is not-noticeable even by log it is too fast to notice.

However we have seen maybe this being slightly more prominent (even though it is framerate independent) on lower FPS.

The question that we are asked by some is, why is it there acceleration on the D-pad when its not on the sticks? The answer to this is simple. In most Shmup games, player ship speed is slow very slow compared to Cygni. so putting acceleration on them is irrelevant and not even considered as a common practice. When considering Ship speed in Cygni relative to its play area you are dealing with many folds that speed.

So soonest you hit a key quickly with the intention to micro-dodge, the key (unlike joysticks) instantly registers 0 or 100%, you will see your ship make a large jump on screen covering vast distances which is the opposite of what you want. To counter this a very very short acceleration is introduced in miliseconds so that quick hits result in small distances covered.

That's the base of it. Its not that we deliberately went out of our way to put it there, its simply because we had to in this instance.

This was later exaggerated to indicate that the game has a lot of inertia.

In the next update we are decreasing acceleration time by 3 folds further, and potentially exposing this calibration for those who wish to calibrate or turn it off entirely.

[Nautilus]

Playing on PS5 for a few hours now, and there seems to be a pretty serious hitching issue with trophies. There is a very clear pause in the action when one pops, and I've had one full hard crash happen as well. I tend to keep Trophy notifications on, but it might be a good idea to turn them off with this title.

We have detected a hard crash while registering numbers in some instances, we are looking into the fix. Haven't heard of trophies hitching on PS5 but can put it up for checking again. Thanks

[ExitPlanetDust]

Wide misuse of “inertia” to describe what is clearly acceleration for movement in this game is frustrating. It reminds me of the wide misuse of “lag” to describe slowdown in games. While I do wish there was a 1:1 movement option for dpad movement as recommended by -Fish- (I think), the movement speed would still need to be fast. As I mentioned, there are some attacks I can’t outrun with speed set to 2 or lower.

I have clocked a few hours on PS5 at this point, mostly long sessions. I have experienced no crashes with the unpatched on-disc version and after the game is patched. I have all notifications off or set to hold until games are closed. Trophy screenshots and videos are completely disabled. I also have completely disabled screen shake. There are points where the game hitches between level sections, but nothing extreme enough to affect gameplay.

[AntiramDSR]

I guess now it comes down to how open the developers are to the criticism that they've gotten

They were pretty hostile before release towards criticism, and quite arrogant, I was surprised when I saw the game had come out, I was sure something with such pigheaded leads would be doomed to never be finished, but hey.

The inertia that the game has means I'm not even going to try it for free, it really is a cardinal sin, through and through.
Not that my quite high end PC could run it, Unreal Engine 5 sure is heavy

There's been a lot of discussion about inertia and I have tried to explain it many times but I think its being misunderstood or ignored (by some). I will try again maybe people here will have the patience to understand what is going on in this current of the game:

1 - Game has 100% NO inertia and No acceleration while using Analog sticks. its mapped one to one.

2 - On D-Pad and Keyboard Only - game has (in milliseconds) "acceleration ONLY " this is the time taking the ship speed from 0 to 100%. For any casual player this is not-noticeable even by log it is too fast to notice.

However we have seen maybe this being slightly more prominent (even though it is framerate independent) on lower FPS.

The question that we are asked by some is, why is it there acceleration on the D-pad when its not on the sticks? The answer to this is simple. In most Shmup games, player ship speed is slow very slow compared to Cygni. so putting acceleration on them is irrelevant and not even considered as a common practice. When considering Ship speed in Cygni relative to its play area you are dealing with many folds that speed.

So soonest you hit a key quickly with the intention to micro-dodge, the key (unlike joysticks) instantly registers 0 or 100%, you will see your ship make a large jump on screen covering vast distances which is the opposite of what you want. To counter this a very very short acceleration is introduced in miliseconds so that quick hits result in small distances covered.

That's the base of it. Its not that we deliberately went out of our way to put it there, its simply because we had to in this instance.

This was later exaggerated to indicate that the game has a lot of inertia.

In the next update we are decreasing acceleration time by 3 folds further, and potentially exposing this calibration for those who wish to calibrate or turn it off entirely.

well... to be totally honest: i would take every bet that YOU wouldn't find anyone on THIS forum whom you really need to explain anything about ship-movement.

but you do you...

yes, there is fun to have with cygni... more that i could have imagined before release... even with it's overall shortcomings and most of them are called out on this thread alone... for me the game ended just when i should have moved over to the so called "arcademode" but it's for most of said reasons that it really just didn't last long enough to even bother with this lackluster mode. it wears of fast. the bells and whistles wear of fast.

you got some praise and also some devastating critics... steam reviews are "mixed"

unluckiest move you could take now, would be to keep this strange "you all don't understand our design-choices"-attitude and keep over-explaining every critic you get instead of growing out of this somewhat unfinished state the game turned out to be.

for now it feels like deciding to spend some bucks buying any movie trilogy or buying cygni... both entertaining for a few evenings.

so there is no regret in buying it at all... but do i ever want to install it again?

a strange ride that game gave me a rollercoaster of impressions...