Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

[Fudoh]

I needed something so i could take the VGA B1 output port/cable from the XRGB-3 and feed it into the tv's component port.

we all agree on this - there's just no interlaced content involved anywhere between the XRGB and the TV.

[Xyga]

Yes yes of course, but you were talking about having a transcoder that would show the 480i material as 480i, my point is you will not get in a situation where it will happen, neither will you need it to recognize 480i anyway.

I mean the transcoder's role and only use is your setup will be to change the XRGB's 480p RGBHV (VGA) into 480p/720p YPbPr (component YUV).

If you want to see how the W7 handles 480i and try the speed preference setting, you need to connect the PS2 directly to the W7 with a playstation component cable.

PS: what Fudoh said.

[spaceape]

We all agree on this - there's just no interlaced content involved anywhere between the XRGB and the TV.

Yeah my bad. I must have read over the first sentence from your site very lightly. :

The XRGB-3 from Micomsoft - in B1 mode only. B1 means 480p output only and only VGA. The XRGB-3 technically doesn't deinterlace, but it tries to emulate the interlaced look of classic CRTs.

I read the second sentence and wrongly interpreted it as it had no real deinterlacing or it could easily be disabled.

[spaceape]

What does the SMB "Super Bit Mapping" setting do and is it best too enabled or disabled it for gaming?

[Fudoh]

It's an internal 10-bit (or 12-bit?) processing during upscaling. Never saw any difference....

[spaceape]

It's an internal 10-bit (or 12-bit?) processing during upscaling. Never saw any difference....

Okay.

[Sixfortyfive]

So I've got a KDL-65W950B right now and I'm having trouble getting it to play nice with a 9A60A VGA-to-component transcoder.

- The TV can accept 480p directly from component sources just fine.
- If I plug a Dreamcast VGA box or XRGB-3 into the 9A60A, and then plug the 9A60A into my capture card, the capture card can accept the signal just fine.
- But if I plug the 9A60A into the TV, the signal just constantly blinks on and off.

Any ideas?

[Xyga]

Yes, open it up and you'll see a single potentiometer, it's used to adjust horizontal position.
Fiddle with it until you get a stable image, on my Sony I had to turn it almost all the way counterclockwise.

[Sixfortyfive]

Yes, open it up and you'll see a single potentiometer, it's used to adjust horizontal position.
Fiddle with it until you get a stable image, on my Sony I had to turn it almost all the way counterclockwise.

Great to know. Can this be accessed relatively easily? Take off the back panel and it's pretty much right there? I'm a little apprehensive about dismantling a brand new $2000 TV.

[Fudoh]

The poti's inside the transcoder, not in the TV

[Sixfortyfive]

The poti's inside the transcoder, not in the TV

Y'all are the best.

[Xyga]

Oops, I should have mentioned that.

EDIT: post pics of that giant gaming monster in action please !

[Sixfortyfive]

Well, cranking the pot all the way clockwise fixed the issue for 240p/480i sources through the XRGB-3, but I still get a flicker on 480p sources no matter what.

Since I usually run the thing in B1 mode anyway, I can probably live with plugging those systems directly into the TV instead, and the Dreamcast seems to be fine going directly into the 9A60A, so it's not the end of the world. Any suggestions, though?

EDIT: The blinking doesn't seem to go away at all if I use B0 mode, either.

[Xyga]

Don't know why it's still doing this, maybe there's a sweet spot you haven't found yet but I find it strange that it's so picky.
Mine (older model 9A60 ) works fine from 8am (start) to around 10am, and the TV is a KDL-42W650A.

Do you have an SLG3000 in line between the XRGB and the 9A60A ? I've found that sometimes too strong scanlines can make it lose the signal.

Could be a VGA cable problem too, I know they're not all wired the same.
Or an off-spec PSU maybe ? Dunno.

[Zer0-2k11]

Is the w6 series still a good HDTV for low input?. Trying to get the lowest lag input possible while using a framemeister. I have a KDL-40V3000 right and the lag is very noticible with the framemeister and i'm looking to get another TV. I've noticed the w6 series has around 30ms compared to the impressive 14-17ms W802a . I tried looking everywhere for a 802a but can't find it anywhere. I heard the W7 series has around 17ms from a forum member (can't remember his/her name) but its showing around 30ms like the w6 series on displaylag. Would go for a bigger set if but space is limited atm.

Help is much appreciated

Right now i'm looking at a few Sony HDTV's in these stores here in Canada:

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/category ... B49%2Binch

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/category/le ... B49%2Binch

[Xyga]

The 2013 W6 had 14-15ms of lag, the 2014 W6 has around 30ms.
They're completely different sets.

The 2014 W7 is the real successor of the 2013 W6 and has around 13-14ms of lag. It's the Queen of low-lag TVs.
It's available in Canada as 'W700B'; http://store.sony.ca/42-w700-led-intern ... Series-TVs

[Shining]

Soo tempted to get the 50w705B. It's only 650€ in Sweden right now. I currently have an 55" Toshiba LED (2011) with great PQ, but i crave dat low input lag. Also, good looking 720p scanlines with the XRGB-Mini would be nice..

[Sixfortyfive]

Don't know why it's still doing this, maybe there's a sweet spot you haven't found yet but I find it strange that it's so picky.
Mine (older model 9A60 ) works fine from 8am (start) to around 10am, and the TV is a KDL-42W650A.

Do you have an SLG3000 in line between the XRGB and the 9A60A ? I've found that sometimes too strong scanlines can make it lose the signal.

Could be a VGA cable problem too, I know they're not all wired the same.
Or an off-spec PSU maybe ? Dunno.

I've tried different VGA cables and it's pretty much the same. I'm going to try the output from my PC next instead of the XRGB-3. I'll look into power supplies if I can.

I recorded a video of how it's behaving on my current setup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUF38mWf6u0

(Sorry about the distorted/loud audio. I had the mic volume cranked up way too high.)

[Xyga]

Could the H/V polarity settings of the XRGB be the cause ?

[Sixfortyfive]

I've tried each permutation (Normal/Normal, Normal/Invert, Invert/Invert, Invert/Normal) with the pot tuned to minimum, half, and maximum, but it doesn't make a visible difference.

[Xyga]

Is it the same on D-in-1 ? Also with a PS2 ?

Is the output resolution set to 640x480 even though you're in B1 mode ? Have you tried setting it to 1024x768 ?

Have you tried with V-Sync on and off ?

AFC on Auto, and Dot Clock on Standard ?

[Sixfortyfive]

PS2 and Wii are the same. All D inputs are the same. If the source is 480p, then the image hangs off-screen to the right and the TV blinks on and off. 240p/480i sources are still off-centered but not as severely.

Resolution doesn't change anything. I've tried 640x480, 1024x768, and 1920x1080.

V-sync doesn't make a difference.

AFC and dot clock don't make a difference.

One thing I've noticed when tinkering with the pot is that it basically has no effect at all on a 480p source.

- On a 240p/480i source, if I turn the pot clockwise about 10% from its starting position, the screen moves a little to the left. Turn it 10% more, the screen moves a little more. The screen visibly shifts leftward until I turn it about 90% clockwise. From 90 to 100%, there's no visible change.
- On a 480p source, the screen only moves leftward until I turn the pot about 15% clockwise from its starting position. There's no shift in the image from 15 to 100% at all.

[Xyga]

Okay I've tried witht the PS2 on D-in-1 and a 480p game and I've got the same issue as yours.

But my TV detects 576p.
Is it the same with yours ? (could'nt see that on your video)

This must be the XRGB-3 detecting the wrong input resolution.
Or maybe it's the AA detecting a slightly off-spec signal, I don't know if modded PAL consoles actually output perfect 480p@60Hz like what the AA expects.

EDIT: well after a while it says 480p again but it still flashes.
I don't know what causes the disturbance/incompatibility, but the fact that we're transcoding twice here certainly doesn't make the whole thing simple.
EDIT2: Fudoh beat me to it.

[Fudoh]

Given the ultra-noise treatment the XRGB-3 offers for 480p sources I don't see how transcoding twice helps in any way. If you add a little component matrix all your problems are solved. And if the Sony's causing the problem here, you might be able to solve this by adding a YUV to HDMI A/D converter to the transcoder's output (if you REALLY have to).

[Sixfortyfive]

My TV and capture card pick up the correct resolution from the 9A60A. The TV reports 480p, and the capture card reports 720x480. (Furthermore, the capture card can correctly distinguish between a 720x480 source and a 640x480 source.)

I tested the transcoder with Dreamcast VGA again, and the potentiometer is more responsive with it, like with 240p/480i sources through the XRGB-3. Adjusting the pot from 0 to about 80% or so makes a noticeable difference, enough to correct the blinking screen issue and get all of the active pixels shown on screen.

So it seems that only the XRGB-3, and only with a 480p source, is unresponsive to adjustments made with the potentiometer.

And no matter what source is used, it seems that the image is still off-centered to the right to some degree.

If you're having the same issue with yours then I'm wondering if it's worth trying a different device altogether.

Given the ultra-noise treatment the XRGB-3 offers for 480p sources I don't see how transcoding twice helps in any way. If you add a little component matrix all your problems are solved. And if the Sony's causing the problem here, you might be able to solve this by adding a YUV to HDMI A/D converter to the transcoder's output (if you REALLY have to).

You're right, of course, but I was intending to also use the XRGB-3 as a D-terminal switchbox and not have to add another device into this chain.

Although I suppose that wouldn't be too inconvenient, considering that I have both D-terminal and component cables for pretty much every system except the Gamecube. I could plug the D cables into the XRGB, the component cables into a switch, and just leave the other ends of both cables next to the console so that I can switch between them if I have to.

But man is the back of this entertainment center getting crowded.

Is there a real difference between component switches? There was a 4-way one on Monoprice that was somewhere in the $20-$30 range. I'd really rather not spend a whole lot on this.

[Xyga]

Yeah correcting my previous statement: it's the XRGB-3 detecting the wrong signal.
It says either 576i or 576p even though I'm playing an NTSC game on my modded PAL PS2 wired to D-in (scart/rgb on game-in doesn't show this problem).

[Sixfortyfive]

Yeah correcting my previous statement: it's the XRGB-3 detecting the wrong signal.
It says either 576i or 576p even though I'm playing an NTSC game on my modded PAL PS2 wired to D-in (scart/rgb on game-in doesn't show this problem).

The D inputs on my XRGB-3 always report either 525i or 525p. From what I understand, this is normal:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Terminal

[evil_ash_xero]

Any good 32 inch model TVs for 2014 with the low lag?

The one posted above was about 42.

Finding TVs with low lag is probably the biggest headache ever given to gamers (well, that and needing XRGBs, and their counterparts).

[Sixfortyfive]

Once you get down to sizes as low as 32", I'd start to consider bumping it even lower and considering 27" computer monitors instead of HDTVs if lag is your number one priority.

[Xyga]

Just replace the 42 by 32, and you'll get the KDL-32W700B / KDL-32W705B. Same specs as the 42" and the only sub-1 frame TV in this size category.

However it is very expensive for a 32" so as suggested by Sixfortyfive you'd better look into 27" monitors (plus those will perform even better).