It's over, CAVE is dead... or maybe not...

[Skykid]

P.S. I agree with iconoclast that Arcade mode is still the best.

I get the impression all the people who don't know how to play Shin are in the same boat.

[dan76]

P.S. I agree with iconoclast that Arcade mode is still the best.

I get the impression all the people who don't know how to play Shin are in the same boat.

I'd take arcade mode over the other two modes. The only thing it lacks is the extra stage which is a shame. I think that large circling gold is a really nice visual representation of scoring, something that cave are really good at (usually). Plus the tap trick of gaining green energy is a winner.

Shin is good, and the hurricane gold is great, but getting there is a chore. Don't like the 16:9 either.

[Skykid]

Shin is good, and the hurricane gold is great, but getting there is a chore. Don't like the 16:9 either.

Shin is the ultimate man shmup, since it's allegorical of gaining an enormous erection and blowing your load in a visual metaphor across the screen.

First you slowly build up your Katana, from tiny little things to big throbbing blades. When you see a target rich environment, after holding back for what seems like forever, you finally get to release in a beautiful, cathartic explosion that tears across the screen. You chase it in orgasmic euphoria, gold spilling all around you, right in the thick of it, and keep it going for as long as possible.

Then you get to repeat.

In real life it takes a while to recharge, but in Shin you get multiple orgasms a level.

[iconoclast]

I get the impression all the people who don't know how to play Shin are in the same boat.

I get the impression that it's the other way around. Everybody who doesn't know how to play the original seems to prefer the more straight-forward Shin.

I like Shin; I think it's Cave's best arrange mode, but it's not as balanced as Arcade/Zetsu nor does it have as much depth imo.

[Zerst]

Cave...best games in the genre

[Jonst]

I love akai katana.All modes are fun! Thanks to iconoclast by the way,as you're yt vids were a massive help in finding the optimal scoring positions in shin mode.

[Tokyo-J]

Usually I prefer the Arcade modes. However both Akai Katana Shin and Dodonpachi Sai Dai Ou Jou Xbox 360 modes are superior to the original versions.

[Aliquantic]

Ridiculous. Admittedly, I never played Shin for anything except score, so if it's a piece of cake by simply ignoring the mechanisms it's not something I've tried - but the bosses mean business and the last few stages are incredibly bullet heavy. I'm quite surprised anyone would volunteer it as an easy clear. It's not Deathsmiles.

Indeed it's not Deathsmiles. Deathsmiles with the EX stage is actually a challenge, survival-wise. I won't even mention MBL. And you're aware, of course, that getting a playing vanilla Deathsmiles for score properly requires not dying, not bombing, and not powering up through the EX and Castle stages at full Death rank.

Lots of opinions in here

[Some-Mist]

never played shin mode, but AK arcade mode definitely took 20+ credits for me to 1CC - though I'm not great at cave games by any means.

anyway.. I didn't think cave was done with shooters when Asada's blog shut down. I actually assumed he was just stepping down, but it's pretty crazy he left all together.

[Skykid]

Ridiculous. Admittedly, I never played Shin for anything except score, so if it's a piece of cake by simply ignoring the mechanisms it's not something I've tried - but the bosses mean business and the last few stages are incredibly bullet heavy. I'm quite surprised anyone would volunteer it as an easy clear. It's not Deathsmiles.

Indeed it's not Deathsmiles. Deathsmiles with the EX stage is actually a challenge, survival-wise. I won't even mention MBL. And you're aware, of course, that getting a playing vanilla Deathsmiles for score properly requires not dying, not bombing, and not powering up through the EX and Castle stages at full Death rank.

Boy I'm aware alright, and that scoring system is precisely why I hate it!

At least scoring in AK is fun.

I am a bit confused by how 'easy' people think Shin is though. Perhaps it's because I mine so hard for score (even during bosses) I die a lot in the process. Purely for survival it might be a cake walk, but admittedly I've never tried. Can't see the fun in playing that game for survival though, the mechanics are so much fun to toy with.

[DrTrouserPlank]

I'm amazed that people brush off AKS arcade mode as "easy".

Probably by people's standards here getting to the 5th stage boss is "easy" but that boss is a complete credit vacuum, and the final boss is all sorts of ridiculous. If you aren't bombing non-stop then you are dying non-stop.

It's a case of "deathsmiles syndrome"; moderately difficult game with a ridiculous difficulty spike at the end.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

This is dumb. When people say Deathsmiles is an easy clear, obviously that means going about it the easiest way, not the hardest. With Deathsmiles Megablack if you go the easiest route it's Cave's easiest clear and if you go all 999 and all EX it's one of the hardest. It's still probably "their easiest clear". If you want to make a game hard that can be said for anything, for example, getting a world record in any game. The first 5 stages of Deathsmiles if you don't masochist yourself or try for a perfect score are a snooze period. I haven't played AKS but in the normal game the stage 5 boss and tlb are in no way credit suckers. Even making tons of stupid mistakes you can clear each of them with only losing 1 life on each and it's not difficult to get there with way more resources than that. You only need a tiny amount of E's in order to be able to block bullets and then you can refill another bit pretty much immediately.

[Jonst]

I'm amazed that people brush off AKS arcade mode as "easy".

Probably by people's standards here getting to the 5th stage boss is "easy" but that boss is a complete credit vacuum, and the final boss is all sorts of ridiculous. If you aren't bombing non-stop then you are dying non-stop.

It's a case of "deathsmiles syndrome"; moderately difficult game with a ridiculous difficulty spike at the end.

Out of curiosity,have you 1cc'd any cave game on the default settings?

[DrTrouserPlank]

This is dumb. When people say Deathsmiles is an easy clear, obviously that means going about it the easiest way, not the hardest. With Deathsmiles Megablack if you go the easiest route it's Cave's easiest clear and if you go all 999 and all EX it's one of the hardest. It's still probably "their easiest clear". If you want to make a game hard that can be said for anything, for example, getting a world record in any game. The first 5 stages of Deathsmiles if you don't masochist yourself or try for a perfect score are a snooze period. I haven't played AKS but in the normal game the stage 5 boss and tlb are in no way credit suckers. Even making tons of stupid mistakes you can clear each of them with only losing 1 life on each and it's not difficult to get there with way more resources than that. You only need a tiny amount of E's in order to be able to block bullets and then you can refill another bit pretty much immediately.

Wish that was true. They are indeed credit vacuums. Their difficulty is off the charts IMO. That ST5 boss is pretty much my definition of "coin-trap". Wave, die... invincible... wave die....repeat.
One of the most """"""""unreasonable"""""""" bosses ever when taking into account the difficulty of getting there.

I'm amazed that people brush off AKS arcade mode as "easy".

Probably by people's standards here getting to the 5th stage boss is "easy" but that boss is a complete credit vacuum, and the final boss is all sorts of ridiculous. If you aren't bombing non-stop then you are dying non-stop.

It's a case of "deathsmiles syndrome"; moderately difficult game with a ridiculous difficulty spike at the end.

Out of curiosity,have 1cc'd any cave game on the default settings?

Exactly..None.

I only play arcade and I don't like arranges and novices in general.

[trap15]

You're dumb.

[Icarus]

You should play Image Fight, DTP. I've heard that one is quite easy.

[n0rtygames]

Exactly..None.

I only play arcade and I don't like arranges and novices in general.

Oh man, this shit has to stop.

Look, go and play Deathsmiles. It _IS_ Caves easiest 1cc if you take the easy route through the game. Playing it for score is a different experience entirely.

Forest->Level 1
Graveyard->Level 1
Harbour Town->Level 3
Swamp->Level 2
Cow Level->Level 2
Volcano->Level 3
Hades Castle (DONT do the bonus stage)

Pick Rosa. Hold down laser. Hoard your bombs for the last bosses. Watch a replay of the game and know the one time where you probably have to use lock on throughout the entire game (if you're only playing for a clear) versus the final boss.

This route will ensure you get easy bosses, you use your stage selection strategically, you never enter death mode (thus no suicide bullets) and you will basically get the clear if you are capable of learning in even the smallest capacity. It might take a couple of goes, but you will get it if you just do it.

I will gladly help you get this Deathsmiles 1cc - just for god sake man focus on one fucking game and clear that shit! Pick an easier one to get started!


edit: Also I think you should focus on clearing Pink Sweets arcade mode next.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Wish that was true. They are indeed credit vacuums. Their difficulty is off the charts IMO. That ST5 boss is pretty much my definition of "coin-trap". Wave, die... invincible... wave die....repeat.
One of the most """"""""unreasonable"""""""" bosses ever when taking into account the difficulty of getting there.

Sorry but you are wrong and I have video proof of exactly what I said, even with tons of stupid mistakes and not using all my bombs correctly, I still only lost 1 man on each of them.

http://youtu.be/LZLkEsiB-Ag?t=4m45s

You might have a point if the game didn't have the E pill bullet blocking system but...it does. Katana is as much about timing as it is dodging.

[Jonst]

You can do it! Death smiles & akai katana were my first 1cc's (I don't have a huge list if clears) but if I can do these then anyone can! Just practice,they are do-able.

[KAI]

Yokogaluda looks so easy to clear.

[DrTrouserPlank]

I'll reply to this tomorrow. lol. Set your alarm clocks.

I've just got too much on tonight to start yet another argument.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Compared to the usual CAVE std both AK and DS are rather easy clears playing purely for survival I understand the point Skykid is making, I like scoring in AK so much that playing for pure survival just goes against the grain. DS vanilla on the otherhand I had no trouble playing in an efficient manor to get the 1CC out of the way, but then again I didn't find DS1's score system to be half as enjoyable as AK / AKS.

[Domino]

You should play Image Fight, DTP. I've heard that one is quite easy.

Your superplay made it easy.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Katana's scoring system is a lot of fun but figuring out tricks to survive and getting used to the game come first for people complaining about its difficulty. It's better to get a quick foundation in survival mechanics first like building up some E stock, then getting some E on your option, then going right into man mode before sucking them in so even after you've come out of your blocking, you immediately have another protection bubble waiting. Then add scoring when you understand how to live. My 2 cents.

The scoring in Deathsmiles, I just hope it clicks in my head as "fun" one day. Memorizing which enemies give more points for being killed with which shot type is not fun.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Katana's scoring system is a lot of fun but figuring out tricks to survive and getting used to the game come first for people complaining about its difficulty. It's better to get a quick foundation in survival mechanics first like building up some E stock, then getting some E on your option, then going right into man mode before sucking them in so even after you've come out of your blocking, you immediately have another protection bubble waiting. Then add scoring when you understand how to live. My 2 cents.

The scoring in Deathsmiles, I just hope it clicks in my head as "fun" one day. Memorizing which enemies give more points for being killed with which shot type is not fun.

Yeah I know I should get the 1CC out of the way I just have little patience for taking advantage of katana / man mode for survival play. I really should though since I'm quite familar with the game apart from abit of training needed on the 2nd half of the extra stage.

I'll give it go soon.

I agree with your sentiments on DS1 score system, shame PAL never got DS2 it might have better clicked with me.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

What I tend to do after a short while is go more for score on the earlier stages and switch more and more to survival techniques late in the game. As you get better and better you can switch to more and more scoring on the late stuff. You should try that with Katana. The immediate refill trick is a good one to have mastered in your back pocket for those last couple of bosses. I don't really ever go 100% survival only unless it's a scoring system that I plain hate (early Donpachi games) or to prove a point (Ibara).

[ACSeraph]

I keep hearing everyone call Deathsmiles MBL Caves easiest clear, but I really can't agree. 2X is way easier than MBL. It's basically the same difficulty as MBL except without the strangely difficulty final stage. It's actually kind of balanced with its difficulty even on level 1. I actually also find SDOJ 360 Shot easier than DS MBL, but that might just be because I was more motivated to play it. I still haven't completed the MBL 1cc (due to lack of effort).

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

I haven't ever played DS2 and I can't comment on any extra port modes, I've just played the arcade boards. In DS MBL if you accidentally chose to add one of the extra stages that ends up making the final stage way harder, but if you avoid them both and go minimal difficulty on the first 5 stages it's even easier than an easy route clear on DS. It's the only Cave game I've cleared on accident. I was just testing characters out and accidentally cleared it.

[Skykid]

Sorry but you are wrong and I have video proof of exactly what I said, even with tons of stupid mistakes and not using all my bombs correctly, I still only lost 1 man on each of them.

http://youtu.be/LZLkEsiB-Ag?t=4m45s

You might have a point if the game didn't have the E pill bullet blocking system but...it does. Katana is as much about timing as it is dodging.

Good vid. I'm curious though (I don't play arcade much, so I don't know) is arcade considered easier than Shin? Because you don't get the e-shield or any of that business to repeatedly build and repel bullets. I find bosses in Shin pretty tough, probably because I'm always trying to maximise scoring opportunities - but you can only fire your Katana to clear a bullet spread or bomb. Outside of those two options it's all dodging, and the Katana recharge isn't anywhere near as regular.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

I'm actually not sure anymore. Someone who has cleared them both would have to answer. That vid is good to show the level of screwups you can do on the last couple of bosses and still pull off a clear but I'm a lot better now. Last time I booted up the board I did a better run than that just sitting down and having a random run. I don't think I had even perfected the immediate refill technique I was talking about until I was heavily into the Limited Version, but it would be a good thing to learn right off the bat for sure.