The Super Famicom / Super NES Thread

[Skykid]

Cool, I think my problem was falling off the damn chopper in all the twitchy confusion, but it seems the middle is the best place to be. Good to know about the alternating arms, it's just a pain in the ass knowing which is coming first.

[KindGrind]

Are there any (key) differences between the SFC and the SNES version of Contra? I'm tempted to pick up a SFC cart and play with you guys, and I can't find the info...

[CIT]

Well, apart from the probotectorization in the PAL region, none that I know of in the US version.

[BIL]

AFAIK, the US version plays identically and has only very minimal art changes*. It does make certain external conditions tougher - all cheat codes are removed, continues are now limited, and only Hard mode lets you see the whole game. But as far as the actual run goes (levels, bosses, weapon balance etc), it's the same game. From discussing Hard strategies with SNES players, everything seems to match up perfectly. You should be fine with either version.

Contra, Super Contra and The Hard Corps got similar treatment in the US with some or all cheats removed, and the infamous switch to one-hit kills in the last one. I remember the taste of pure despair when I tried to cheat at Hard Corps only to discover Gamepro had printed JP-exclusive codes. I'm actually glad it turned out that way now, though.

In Spirits, this past weekend I made it all the way to that fucking TLB with no misses, and four excess bombs. Then I tried to be a smartass by unloading them while hammering double C (usually I'd have died previously, losing both the extra bombs and a C). This impressive onslaught unfortunately caused immense slowdown I'd never experienced before, screwing my timing and promptly getting me clawed with the TLB dying immediately after. I was recording this attempt too.





Eh, I'm satisfied for now. Valuable postmortem intel: pretty sure it's always the right arm that strikes first. I'm going to wait until I can record straight from hardware at 60fps to start uploading replays again. Youtube does this stuff no justice and hardware kills falsificare ignoramuses dead (as amusing as they are to shoot down occasionally).

I've since moved onto the first SFC Kiki Kaikai, another masterpiece of pure action hardcore I've neglected giving serious time for way too long.

*the dates on the ending's photos chronicling Bill & Lance's Excellent Adventures from AD 2633 to 2636 are erased, since the series' US localisation cocked up the timeline by bumping Contra and Super C back to the 1980s.

[cicada88]

Sorry for the mix of Japanese / English Titles

Pretty much went for a list of Bests / Exclusives from my own memory / this thread / other lists.

Disregarded most fighting games as they are better elsewhere

Included some borderline stuff like Final Fight Series even though they are better elsewhere

Probably pretty light on platformers / western games / and RPGs as I'm relatively clueless on them.

What's Missing?

Act Raiser
Act Raiser 2
Adventures of Batman & Robin
Area 88
Arkanoid: Doh It Again
Assaults Suits Valken
Axelay
Battle Cross
Blackthorne
Big Sky Trooper
Breath of Fire
Breath of Fire II
BS Special Tee-Shot (Satellaview Download)
Cameltry
Chaos in the Windy City
Clock Tower
Chrono Trigger
Congo’s Caper
Contra 3
Demon’s Crest
DoReMi Fantasy
Dracula XX
Dragon Quest (Series)
Final Fantasy IV
Final Fantasy V
Final Fantasy VI
Final Fight (Series)
Fire Emblem (Series)
Front Mission
Front Mission: Gun Hazard
F-Zero
Ganbare! Daiku no Gen-san
Ghost Chaser Densei
Ganbare Goemon (Series)
Gradius III
Gundam Wing: Endless Duel
Hagane
Illusion of Gaia
Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius
Joe & Mac
Joe & Mac 2
Lufia II
Kirby’s Dreamland 3
Kirby Superstar
Kiki Kaikai
Kiki Kaikai 2
Macross Scrambled Valkyrie
Magical Pop’n
Majyuuou
Metal Warriors
Mother 2
Ninja Warriors Again
Phantom 2040
Plok
Pop’n Twinbee
Rockman 7
Rockman X
Rockman X2
Rockman X3
Rockman & Forte
Rock’n’Roll Racing
Rudra no Hihou-
Run Saber
R-Type III
Star Fox
Star Fox 2
Seiken Densetsu 2 (Secret of Mana)
Seiken Densetsu 3
Septentrion
Secret of Evermore
Shadowrun
Skyblazer
Sonic Blastman II
Sonic Wings
Soul Blader
Star Ocean
Sunset Riders
Super Adventure Island 2
Super Aleste
Super Bomberman (Series)
Super Castlevania IV
Super E.D.F.
Super Famicom Wars
Super Ghouls n Ghosts
Super Mario All-Stars
Super Mario World
Super Mario World 2
Super Mario Kart
Super Mario RPG
Super Metroid
Super Punch-Out
Sutte Hakkun
Tales of Phantasia
Terranigma
Tetris Attack
The Firemen
The Legend of Zelda
The Lost Vikings
The Lost Vikings 2
Umihara Kawase
Uniracers
Vortex
Wild Guns
Zombies Ate My Neighbors

[CIT]

Off the top of my head, I'd add these to the mix:

Akumajo Dracula XX
Alcahest
Biometal
Cotton 100%
Darius Force
Deae Tonosama Appare Ichiban
Gourmet Sentai Bara-Yarou
Kidou Soukou Dion
Melfand Stories
Nosferatu
Prince of Persia
Rushing Beat (Series)
Super Turrican 1&2
Sword Maniac
Twinbee Rainbow Bell Adventure
Umihara Kawase
Undercover Cops
Violinist of Hameln
Ys IV & V

[cicada88]

Thanks CIT

Found some more.

I also added DKC 1 & 2 even though I don't personally have any attraction to them.

Addams Family
Batman Returns
Chō Genjin (Super Bonk)
Chō Genjin 2
Donkey Kong Country
Donkey Kong Country 2
Equinox
EVO: Search for Eden
Goof Troop
International Superstar Soccer
Kirby's Avalanche
Lufia & The Fortress of Doom
Metal Marines
Phalanx
Pilot Wings
Putty Squad
Ogre Battle
Rendering Ranger R2
Sparkster
Troddlers
Spindizzy Worlds
Super Buster Brothers (Super Pang)
Turtles in Time
Zero the Kamikaze Squirrel

[Jonathan Ingram]

Oh, so we are compiling a list of SNES' best, eh? Here's a few more:

- Live a Live
- Popful Mail
- Energy Breaker
- Bahamut Lagoon
- Wonder Project J
- The Combatribes
- Treasure Hunter G
- Gunple: Gunman's Proof
- Shounen Ninja Sasuke
- Ultima VI: The False Prophet
- Brandish 2: The Planet Buster
- Feda: The Emblem of Justice
- Super Back to the Future Part II
- Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together
- Rudra no Hihou(Treasure of the Rudras)
- Holy Umbrella: Dondera no Mubo
- Crystal Beans: From Dungeon Explorer
- Fushigi no Dungeon 2 - Fuurai no Shiren
- G-O-D: Growth or Devolution
- Shodai Nekketsu Kouha: Kunio-kun
- Shin Nekketsu Kouha: Kunio Tachi no Banka
- P.T.O. II: Pacific Theatre of Operations
- Uncharted Waters: New Horizons
- Shin Megami Tensei I-II

[cicada88]

Oh, so we are compiling a list of SNES' best, eh? Here's a few more:

Just for fun.

There are only about 50 games I would consider "essential", but it looks like 200-250 titles is a good number for a somewhat forgiving, all genre list.

Thanks for your additions.

[BIL]

I would mention Return of Double Dragon (SFC - not the earlier and inferior SNES rev Super Double Dragon) as worth having in 2014. Maintains the crucial Technos elements of vicious crowd AI and brutal stun->KO violence, and adds a stylised choreographic element with its killer moves and zoning mechanic. I've never played a brawler with such a sense of martial arts dominance. The low game speed is a drag, but with such a strong focus on spacing and timing I always adjust soon enough.

My personal SFC short lists, a couple years in (still trying out new stuff). First the absolute hard core I'd never part with, stuff I can replay forever:

Akumajou Dracula
Assault Suits Valken
Choumakaimura
Contra Spirits
F-Zero
Hagane
Kiki Kaikai: Nazo no Kuro Mantle
Kiki Kaikai: Tsukiyozoshi
Ninja Warriors Again, The
Rockman X
Super Aleste
Super Metroid
Wild Guns

Other cool stuff I like having around:

Actraiser 2
Batman Returns
Bio Metal
Cameltry (expanded port with tons of new stages; unfortunately only the SNES rev supports a mouse)
Combatribes, The
Demon's Blazon
Ganbare Goemon quartet (quality action games with gorgeous production, all sharing the same caveat of slightly sub-action game pacing)
Gundam Wing: Endless Duel (a couple infinites, sadly - still, fun as hell mecha fighter with excellent Natsume presentation and controls)
Karuraoh
Prince of Persia
R-Type III
Return of Double Dragon
Super Mario Kart
Turtles In Time
Umihara Kawase (still haven't played this enough to call myself a real fan, love messing about though)
X-Men Mutant Apocalypse

There's also stuff like Axelay, Area 88 and Actraiser that I attach strong caveats to, yet find immensely charming nonetheless. I'm fond of the three SMB platformers (SMBW, Collection and YI) and Zelda as well, and consider them essential even if I'm not outright crazy for them like the first-party titles listed above.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Do you know of any other multiplayer game like Metal Warriors on split-screen?
We've seen Herzog Zwei and Death Tank (also Zwei) remakes in recent years, for crying out loud! Someone go remake Metal Warriors 2 player, please.

[KindGrind]

Thanks for all the great SFC suggestions.

I bought a Doremi Fantasy cart along with a converter on eBay. The cart feels light, but otherwise looks exactly like the ones I saw on eBay. I don't have a gamebit right now so I can't open it, and I can't compare with other SFC carts live because it's the only one I have around. In your experience, when paying the appropriate price from a reputable seller, how likely is it that you have been passed a boot? Does anyone have experience with this?

Pics:



I'm also asking because I plan on picking up other rare SFC games, and would like input on boots floating around. I know, for example, that many SFC repro carts are made in Brazil, and from pics they look convincing, although they are explicitly sold as "high-quality reproduction carts".

[BIL]

I'd be interested in any stories myself. I collect CIB games exclusively, my cartridge systems being FC/MD/SFC/N64. Have only once thought something was amiss: noticed my ebay-bought Endless Duel's cart felt lighter than I'm used to. It was a relatively cheap game and all its printed materials looked appropriate to the forty or so other SFC titles in my collection, so I didn't think much of it, but was still curious. From a look at the board everything appeared factory-made, so I left it at that. Was wondering if I might find one of those spaghetti conversion monstrosities, haha.

Some N64 games I bought brand new at release vary in weight too. eg Goldeneye 007 is noticeably lighter than WCW/nWo Revenge. So I'm not sure if heft's a giveaway of anything in itself. As I say though, would like to hear from others.

Noticed in this evening's Contra Spirits run that Battlantis Guy/Emperor Demon Gyaba's disgorged enemies will, if left alive, circle around the weak spot on its forehead to intercept your fire. The original Super Contra AC version does exactly the same thing - wonder if that's more than a neat coincidence.

[KindGrind]

My SFC Contra is in the mail, so hopefully I'll be able to play along soon. Also picked up a few other things for the SFC... A JP copy of Super Metroid, because the retro gaming shops around here (and even eBay) seem to sell this one at 3x the price of the JP cart, and for some reason I had gotten rid of my SNES copy after downloading the game on the Wii. Looking forward to rebooting SM; was happy to discover new speed-running routes being discovered still.

Also in the mail are copies of Violonist of Hamelin and Sutte Hakkun. Can't wait for these to arrive here... I've heard only good things about Violonist, and I've been meaning to grab a reasonably-priced copy of the other for quite a while. A bit on the expensive side of things, but there are worse games on the SFC. Undercover Cops, RR, Mr Nutz and Majuoh come to mind.

Question: Are the 2 Pocky and Rocky games worth getting (SNES)? I remember liking the first game, but have never played the second... More of the same? It is improved in any way? I know a guy locally who has the 2 games for sale...

[BIL]

The first game is thoroughly excellent - I'd never be without it. Hardcore run n' gun with arcade pace and challenge, and varied stages loaded with unique enemy types. Absolutely airtight handling as expected from Natsume, with a great melee/block mechanic. Unbearably cute! A particularly fantastic co-op game. There's some 2P slowdown with dual max weapons blazing, though the points this occurs are so busy it's almost welcome.

The second is the same engine with added ARPG elements, and not quite as good. Money and shops ultimately amount to a slower-paced way of regaining HP and firepower. There's also a slight language barrier due to occasional NPC interactions. Also introduces a very experimental partner system with P2 relegated to more of a supporting role and frequently commandeered by P1. Still a great run and gun at its core, and every bit as aesthetically lovely as the original if not moreso, but emulate it first to see if you can get along with its idiosyncrasies. Being a huge fan of the first game I consider it essential as an expansion pack of sorts.

I've only played the Japanese versions, no idea if anything's materially different in US. Natsume's other brilliant SFC sequel to a Taito property, The Ninja Warriors Again, isn't quite as brilliant on SNES due to censoring - crowd variety is lessened by an enemy being chopped out and hamfistedly replaced by more of a different type.

[BIL]

OH WAO, Super Smash TV (or just Smash TV on SFC) is awersome!!!



Snaffled it up on a whim - only passingly familiar with the AC version so dunno how good a port it is, but I was hooked instantly. I gather the difficulty was toned down but as a console arena shooting experience it's still absolute zen. SFC pad works brilliantly.

I'll probably try to hunt down the PS1 Arcade Party Pak now, but there's always something endearing about true home conversions. And I get a weird kick out of Western properties in JP format, bahaha.

[Koa Zo]

Thanks for your additions.

A few more often overlooked classics off the top of my head:
Air Strike Patrol (A.S.P.)
Natsume Championship Wrestling
Spanky's Quest

And just to be contrarian, I have to say while DoReMi Fantasy looks and sounds very pleasant, I found it very boring to play - one of the more over-hyped games, imo.

...
Super Smash TV... now there's a perennial Super Famicom classic!

[Skykid]

Finally say down with The Firemen yesterday (even though I've had the JP release for ages) and it's all I hoped and dreamed it would be.

The initial framerate smack quickly disappears under the non-stop action of a towering inferno. I love the way it manages to successfully replicate the increasingly dire stakes with true cinematic pace. The nice touch of having you play as the older vet while the young recruit works alongside you with impressive AI characteristics is a superb setup, complemented by unintrusive intercom exchanges with HQ and fraught one to one decisions.

The narrative is very nicely concocted, convincingly threaded with the increasing threat of out of control fire as you scale the building in what seems to be more and more like a suicide mission. It may be an hour long, but it's crammed with quality. I especially like it when every threat becomes layered and you're on guard for anything: when walls of flame are strafing the screen, burning sentry droids are coming your way, pincer flame is creeping across the carpet and the air is thick with smoke - and those amazing moments when you accidentally break a window or open a door and the backdraft kicks in, prompting you to hit the deck fast before you get your health bar blown clean in half.

16bit goodness all the way.

Now, on a completely unrelated note: How the hell do I kill the first boss in Actraiser 2? Embarrassingly I can't figure out that stupid cloud's weak point before he inhales me across the screen to insta-death. :s

[soprano1]

Skykid, have you played the second Firemen on PSone? If yes, does it have the same qualities as the first one?

[BIL]

I've wondered about The Firemen, have to check it out for sure now.

Now, on a completely unrelated note: How the hell do I kill the first boss in Actraiser 2? Embarrassingly I can't figure out that stupid cloud's weak point before he inhales me across the screen to insta-death. :s

Easiest way to take him down is to bean the reaper with fireball magic (the triple projectile that flies in an arc - hold the attack button to charge it, then release attack while holding [UP] on the pad ). Two should all but kill him IIRC.

Actraiser 2's initial learning curve is pretty brutal, and it's a tough game overall. Worth getting to grips with though, it totally makes sense after a while. The key is to exploit your invincible frames while airborne. Downstriking is totally invulnerable and a great way to approach while dealing damage, the sword dive even moreso. Note also that enemies are frozen and can't do contact damage while hitstunned, so don't be afraid to jump in with one of the aforementioned moves. They'll get stunned while you land and get to hacking. As with cancelling jabs into themselves in a fighter, you can do enormous and often fatal damage off that first hit with good timing.

Offense is usually the best defense, and also the best evasion - don't try to dodge stuff, just i-frame straight through it. Projectiles will be nullified and anything in the path of a dive will get a chunk of HP blasted off.

Visual aid

[Skykid]

Skykid, have you played the second Firemen on PSone? If yes, does it have the same qualities as the first one?

I haven't, I made the same inquiry a little while ago and was told if you liked the first then I'll probably enjoy the second - even though it's apparently slightly less accomplished.

One issue, was F2 released in the west or fan translated. I only have a JP SFC Firemen but like anything with text I'm playing the US ver on a flash cart. And it makes a difference. It's much more engaging than when I dabbled with the game in Japanese - and that's not to say you can't play it without being able to read the text - but it's a lot more fun.

@BIL

Basically I put Actraiser 2 on, played it for 10 minutes and thought "yep, this is balls hard, it's the game for me", but that boss...

I remember trying to get that charge move out consistently and often he seems to flash but not shoot the projectiles. Fiddly. Is it actually a magic attack using scrolls?

[BIL]

Yeah, the magic system's unusual, though it does work (as with the swordplay). Basically you hold the attack button until you're flashing red - that's stage 1. From there, the spell you execute is determined by the direction you're holding when you release the button. It's been a while, but the one I definitely remember is the fireballs (hold UP). Very useful; good range, powerful and inexpensive.

There's also slightly more involved air spells, EG a super sword dive; IIRC it's double jump while charged, then DOWN/diagonal down and release. This'll kill most stuff dead but obviously takes some practice to land consistently.

[blackoak]

Actraiser 2 was really great, so glad I didn't abandon it as "too hard" when I first tried it. I didn't go for the 1LC or even 1CC, just doggedly trying to beat stages, and it was still one of the best 16-bit platformer experiences I've had.

[Squire Grooktook]

My favorite moment playing Actraiser 2 was when I was playing the final stage with a muted tv on my left set to the Tv Guide Channel. Mere moments before the final battle with "Tanzra" I just happened to glance over my shoulder and catch the history channel scroll by with a documentary entitled "God Vs Satan".

The Master be praised.

In Spirits, this past weekend I made it all the way to that fucking TLB with no misses, and four excess bombs. Then I tried to be a smartass by unloading them while hammering double C (usually I'd have died previously, losing both the extra bombs and a C). This impressive onslaught unfortunately caused immense slowdown I'd never experienced before, screwing my timing and promptly getting me clawed with the TLB dying immediately after. I was recording this attempt too.

Ha ha, for sheer derp value I don't think that has anything on the time I 1lc'd (while recording) to the tlb and accidentally let go of the missile and dropped to my death several milliseconds after landing the killing blow on him.

[KindGrind]

I've been meaning to acquire Actraiser 2, and the opinions here are the little incentive I was missing.

I've been toying with Contra Spirits, and I don't see how I will 1CC this ever.

The buss rush sequence is just ridiculous...

[BIL]

Bombing and the generous extend rate should see you through with a bit of persistence. If you keep plugging away at it, eventually you'll have so many extends from stages 1-5 that you'll very likely be able to pull through to the end with a bit of bombspam in the more hectic parts (don't hoard bombs - you lose 'em all upon dying).

edit: Also, if you're playing the SFC version you get the level select cheat and infinite continues, which make practicing the final gauntlet much easier (it's genuinely pretty damn tough at first, particularly on Hard - even "huge heart" can totally flatten a newbie who won't know how to deal with its facehugger onslaught).

[Squire Grooktook]

You can cripple the heart really effectively with a well placed bomb and some focus fire on the bottom hatcheries, yeah. Just as long as you kill both bottom hatcheries while the bomb is up, you should be golden for that fight.

Probably as good a time as any to show it off, but here's the last part of my hard 1lc of the game from years back. Featuring lots of cheap out strategies, especially against Brain Searl and some dumb luck against TLB.

[BIL]

I didn't know you had a no-miss uploaded, nicely done! Fiendishly tricky game to survive unscathed. Never mind the mountain of score extends it gives out, ultimate heroes don't get wasted ever!

If I could ask one thing of the designers, it'd be if the brain's Blue Balls pattern was a Salamander reference (to stage 4's infamous blue marble dispenser). Unless there's a safespot I'm missing, it's very nearly as brutal to survive once the screen is full... every other pattern I can handle fine (the snake's pretty tense) but that one is a nightmare. Maybe a bit farfetched but at least Miki Higashino worked on both after all, heh.

[Mortificator]

Actraiser 2 was really great, so glad I didn't abandon it as "too hard" when I first tried it. I didn't go for the 1LC or even 1CC, just doggedly trying to beat stages, and it was still one of the best 16-bit platformer experiences I've had.

I'm in total agreement. Awesome boss design, too.

[Squire Grooktook]

I didn't know you had a no-miss uploaded, nicely done! Fiendishly tricky game to survive unscathed, despite the mountain of score extends it gives out.

If I could ask one thing of the designers, it'd be if the brain's Blue Balls pattern was a Salamander reference (to stage 4's infamous blue marble dispenser). Unless there's a safespot I'm missing, it's very nearly as brutal to survive once the screen is full... every other pattern I can handle fine (the snake's pretty tense) but that one is a nightmare. Maybe a bit farfetched but Miki Higashino worked on Spirits after all!

Heheh, wouldn't be surprised.

Also thank you. I was actually toying with doing a no bomb or machine gun only run of the game on hard (for NO REFUGE in the Alien Lair) like you recently did for Famicom Contra. Will have to get back to that sometime.

*edit*

Indeed, Actraiser's aesthetic is amazing. Still have a soft spot for Legion Ghoul and Lust Snake.