Earthquake has hit Japan

[tinotormed]

.... Well, I certainly know that as I was watching a kindergarten across the street shaking it's ass like a hot latina salsa dancer and the petro-chemical factories were exploding around me like my ass after a spicy dinuguan stew I was thinking "Dear God, I hope all the Filipino children are safe!" Thankfully both of our prayers were answered!
Or at least the Filipino community - to hell with everyone else, amirite?

Heh heh heh. Funny you should say, rancor. But were Filipinos anyway, y'know.

I haven't been to your country yet. This is because the travel towards Tokyo (which takes around 4 hours, I think) is expensive. Besides, I might get there when there is a right and safe time to get there.

[tinotormed]

"Dear God, I hope all the Filipino children are safe!" Thankfully both of our prayers were answered!

A friend of mine emailed me the next day to tell me his table hit the bad beat jackpot for $420k when he wasn't there.

THAT has been ONE close call, should you say. Besides, no casualties have been reported through our Filipino-Japanese community. The bad news is 38 are still missing.

[austere]

I haven't been to your country yet

I would say the immediate safety of rancor's family is higher on his agenda than your future travel arrangements. I think you should realise that most people find it distasteful to focus on a specific set of people when there are likely around 10,000 dead and many more missing in Japan. Even the Australia media (which is usually very guilty of this) is not up to its usual nauseating village-style reporting.

Anyway, bad news about Unit-2, the effects were much worse than TEP Co. initially let on (they're hovering at credibility rating zero so this shouldn't come at a surprise). The primary containment might be damaged as the result of the explosion which would be bad in the event of a total meltdown. Also, there's been a fire at Unit-4 but there's no further information about that except for mentioning a brief evacuation.

There's also a no-fly zone established over the 30km radius of the Daiichi plant so you can forget about getting detailed photographs for a while.

UPDATE: Units 5 and 6 may have a coolant problem according to Kyodo news, without further information.

[BryanM]

Awesome. I didn't know we were living on a giant ice cube.

Whaaat the fuck.

.... could he seriously not understand the ice represents ice, and the water represents water?

I constructed the metaphor as simply as possible.... he must be pretending not to acknowledge the receding glaciers? Or numbers in general? Just 'cause? Numbers are the tools of oily hippies, clearly. Argh. Head hurts now.

Alright, my zest for threadshitting, sated.

[austere]

(latest graph updates every 10 minutes: http://e-trees.net/park18.wakwak.com/we ... iation.jpg)

While the radiation level is pretty low in Tokyo, this small spike against the background at least indicates a transfer of radioactive materials. As long as it doesn't form a ramp or a step, you shouldn't be too worried. Apparently the dutch reporters in Japan are being pulled out over this, though.

[rancor]

While the radiation level is pretty low in Tokyo, this small spike against the background at least indicates a transfer of radioactive materials. As long as it doesn't form a ramp or a step, you shouldn't be too worried. Apparently the dutch reporters in Japan are being pulled out over this, though.

Thanks for the reassuring post. Apparently it's raining up near the reactor now, and it's pretty cloudy here in Tokyo as well with a 60% chance of rain tonight.. Maybe the rain will knock some of that stuff out of the sky. Good to see the radiation levels aren't increasing, and that they were fairly low, even at their peak. I also found this which makes me feel better as well. Apparently the current radiation level in Tokyo is equivalent to eating one banana a day.. If thats at all true. That info is here

[GaijinPunch]

Support Japan by buying SFIV for iPhone.
http://uk.wireless.ign.com/articles/115/1155634p1.html

Maybe the rain will knock some of that stuff out of the sky

It actually brings it back to the ground in the form of acid rain.

[austere]

buying SFIV for iPhone

*shudder* I'd rather just send you the money. Not that it'd do anything since the supplies are the actual limitation, heh. I was thinking of organising a shipment over with a bunch of concerned friends, but it'll be too late by the time it arrives. I have a problem with generic donations, there's so many scammers out there and I don't want them to benefit from this event. A lot of the scammers are larger than most people believe.

Apparently the current radiation level in Tokyo is equivalent to eating one banana a day

Well, if you look at the average numbers, perhaps (I haven't done the maths), but such analogies are quite deceptive. There are many materials, which are "harmless" externally but will completely wipe you out if you ingest them so the BED unit is interesting. Anyway, I don't want to bring over this debate to this thread because there's a bit of disagreement on this issue. As long as material transfer ceases, I wouldn't panic. Of course, getting out of there averts unknown risk but by the looks of it the worst is likely over (at least outside the plant) in my opinion. We just have to monitor the situation to see the consequence of what has already happened, specifically the explosion at Unit-3.

BTW, from that chart on the page you linked, CT scans actually cause cancer so they should only ever be used when there is no alternative. NMR is even more effective in many cases but is expensive so most physicians get a soft quota of how many they can order.

EDIT: I had a feeling this BED unit was a bit deceptive http://www.boingboing.net/2010/08/27/ba ... ioact.html . Not that I agree with this medical physcist but you should look at both sides of the argument anyway.

[burgerkingdiamond]

That's taking it a bridge too far, methinks: you're treading a bit close to the "9-11 Truther" mindset, if you ask me.

Well, maybe, but I wouldn't draw that comparison. The bloodthirsty nature of the American news media has been proven time and time again. And add to the equation that the majority of journalists are liberals (this really isn't debatable, and I am aware that conservative journalists can be just as annoying), they seem hopping with anticipation that we're going to have a big nuclear catastrophe in Japan. The only real world news we get is when bad stuff is happening in other countries: earthquakes, tsunamis, terrorist attacks, riots, etc. It's embarrassing.

As we speak the opportunist anti-nuclear lobbyist groups are asking Japan to shutdown all its reactors. I guess they'll have to live in mud huts then, huh? Nuclear power can be "inherently safe" if you avoid ancient designs like BWR.

This is exactly my point.

I get the feeling that this sort of warmer world=more powerful seismic activity situation might help explain the disaster that preceded the Triassic era

Oh geeze. See, here's more fearmongering. You know, in the '70s and '80s, everyone was afraid of an impending "ice age." So much of the global warming fearmongering that's been passed off as "fact" has really taken some serious blows in past years. Don't cling so much to it. "We're actually having record low temperatures." "Uh, yeah, well, you see, that's all a part of global warming too! Yeah, that's it!"

Supposedly they're going to be doing rolling blackouts at least through April. I wonder how long it will take for them to even have a realistic plan to restore full service, given how catastrophic the overall destruction has been.

Oh great. April is when I'm going to Japan. I was hoping this all would be sorted out by then.

Isolated incidences of record low temperatures do not disprove global warming. The AVERAGE tempereature of the Earth rising would change weather patterns in a very complicated way. So it would not be strange for places to experience lower than normal temperatures, or for more extreme winters etc...

[GaijinPunch]

I have a problem with generic donations, there's so many scammers out there and I don't want them to benefit from this event. A lot of the scammers are larger than most people believe.

Yeah, I can buy that. I'd love to be able to tell you if you gave me something I'd pass it along to someone that needs it, but the only people in this area that need that are the homeless in the park.

[CIT]

Crazy disaster... I was going to fly to Japan next Sunday. Luckily I was able to cancel my flight and hotel bookings.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but it looks like (thus far) the western media (and not Japanese) has been sensationalizing the fuck out of this. Of course, I could be wrong and be in total danger.

My guess is as good as yours, of course, but I think the Japanese government and Toyko Denryoku are downplaying the severity of the reactor disaster. Tokyo Denryoku also has a long history of intransparency and misreporting on the statuses of its reactors. It's pretty clear at this point that the situation at Fukushima has moved largely beyond human control and you just have to hope that the fuel rods cool down eventually, entombing them in the reactor before the casing melts away. Just stay the fuck indoors and don't leave until the reactor situation has stabilized.

[GaijinPunch]

My guess is as good as yours, of course, but I think the Japanese government and Toyko Denryoku are downplaying the severity of the reactor disaster. Tokyo Denryoku also has a long history of intransparency and misreporting on the statuses of its reactors.

The only famous case was the one in 2001 though. I don't know enough about the subject to comment any more than that. However, I do know enough to say that the Japanese media has actually been far closer to correct than the western (even though a little vague).

[Skykid]

Filipinos

Give the guy a break, folks. I don't think there's any malice involved, just an element of mis-judged sentiment.

buying SFIV for iPhone

Count me out then.

[NTSC-J]

but it either goes off moments after it starts in order to increase the anxiety of the moment.

Does your neighborhood feature those awesome mega-mega phones where you can't understand anything? I heard an announcement, then the fucking firebomb siren (loud), and then the aftershock hit. It was only a 7.1 I think, but coupled w/ the siren and the Charlie Brown teacher announcement (still don't know what they said) I really fucking panicked more than the first. I really thought that the aftershock was the big one and was about to fist me. And not the good way.

Yea we have those too and I'm glad I'm not the only one that has no clue what they're rambling about.

6-pointer just now in the Shizuoka area. At this rate, Japan will move close enough to the States so that I can save on plane tickets for my next trip home.

[moozooh]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o ... y_15_March
http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_imag ... 89582P.pdf

Unfortunately, more bad news. There are currently problems at four out of six Fukushima-I reactors, where Unit 2 (reported loss of containment integrity) and Unit 3 (MOX fuel) appear to be the most problematic. This is a high-res sat photo of the plant after the second explosion, you can see that the Unit 3 building (middle of the photo) is in shambles, including the metal gridwork, compared to the Unit 1. And I hope those huge steam jets are the manual venting conducted by engineers.

Andyway, the radiation leak on the plant premises has increased to 0.4 Sv/hour. And what's probably the worst part yet is that the situation has kept getting worse over the past three days despite all the measures taken. IAEA will most likely promote this to INES level 5 any time soon.

Bottom line: if you're residing in Honshu and have some other place to move to for a while, it would likely be a good idea to do that now. :\

[austere]

From a power perspective the good news is that Daini looks like it's now under control. Each one of those units provides 1.1GW so permanently losing Units 2 and 4 would make the situation dire for Japan's grid.

Bottom line: if you're residing in Honshu and have some other place to move to for a while, it would likely be a good idea to do that now. :\

Mmmm well, they'd certainly be escaping unknown risks. I'm scheduled to head up there in a month's time and I'm reconsidering that until all information is available. TEPCO has been caught lying and lying again throughout the previous decade, I'm extremely skeptical of anything they say. I wonder how hard is it to buy put option on specific Japanese stock (rather than the whole index) for a foreigner...

[Shocky]

R.I.P. to all the victims and let's hope the worst has now passed. I have flight tickets to Japan for May, going to Tokyo but also Gunkanjima and other places in the south. It would be nice if there still is a Japan to go to.

I wonder if there will be an emigration wave out of Japan eventually. It must be stressful living somewhere and hear in the media again and again that a huge earthquake is already past deadline and waiting to happen.

Too bad IREM reacted by cancelling Disaster Report 4. It was supposed to be out this spring, and was the game I had been waiting for the most lately. I wish they release it later and donate something from the sales to the victims and rebuilding rather than can the whole thing. A game like that might even be a good educational tool if they slipped in enough actual advice of how to cope with a catastrophy like this.

[Skyknight]

I think the point about the rain is that it would strike the fallout back down to earth BEFORE it could waft particularly far away from Fukushima (which is already pretty badly compromised, so receiving the fallout back wouldn't change all that much).

{wonders if we can arrange for a sinkhole to open up beneath the reactors...or would that make the situation even worse?}

[neorichieb1971]

In 1984 England did a train test running a 146 ton locomotive with 3 carriages straight into a nuclear container to see if it would leak. It did not.

You can watch it here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJflu7z4QyI

Obviously the containers in fuki are older. It makes you wonder if when standards raise if they would replace the old gear and replace with new gear. It seems not. I am sure that in the past 30 years they had opportunities to upgrade the tech to new standards.

[moozooh]

{wonders if we can arrange for a sinkhole to open up beneath the reactors...or would that make the situation even worse?}

Sinkholes may actually exist there as a last possible resort, but AFAIK sinking the reactors now would be a very bad idea. If you leave the nuclear fuel without means to cool down, it will keep melting through everything on its way until it cools down (which, considering its total mass, is unlikely to be quick), or until it meets the nearest water-filled cavity, at which point it will start uncontrollably poisoning the area for years to come. Considering how slowly the stuff decays and how hot it remains all the way, it may actually melt through (most of) the crust and be partially ejected back by the pressure, or at least build up a pressure sufficient for radioactive vapors to seep through crevices.

I'm pretty sure TEPCO understands that keeping the attempts to cool down their reactors is the best and only thing they can reasonably do.

[greg]

Or numbers in general? Just 'cause? Numbers are the tools of oily hippies, clearly. Argh. Head hurts now.

Good job putting words in my mouth. Look, I never said that there is no warming at all. Somebody mentioned that earthquakes are the result of global warming, and I just don't buy that. There is a lot of hysterical misinformation when it comes to global warming. Guys like you freak out when Fox News fabricates crap and stretches the truth to fit their bias, but I guess you refuse to acknowledge when it happens on the other side (Al Gore failing to mention that the lake dried up because a dam was built upstream, survey teams measuring the ice caps conveneintly omitting huge areas in their reports, etc). I still stand by my opinions on the stupidity of American news media, either right or left wing. When I turn on CNN, I want to see people getting rescued, seeing people getting interviewed to describe what they saw, etc. I got a lot of that at first, then now all they do is talk about the nuclear reactor problem. It's stupid. Fox? I don't even know when they actually do show news. It must be during the day when I'm at work, because all I ever see on there is just opinion shows. I turned over there once on Saturday and they were talking about Wisconsin. Fail.

I have flight tickets to Japan for May, going to Tokyo but also Gunkanjima and other places in the south. It would be nice if there still is a Japan to go to.

This is something I'd rather talk about right now. My wife is scheduled to fly to Japan on March 30th. That's a little more than two weeks away. Yesterday, Narita Airport's website said that the JR NEX and Keisei Skyliner were not in service. As of today, the Skyliner is still not in service. I hope in two weeks the transportation system will return to normal. She'll be going directly to Nagano-ken where I believe she'll be safe. The quake in northern Nagano-ken didn't affect her family at all, since they live in the central part.I believe these smaller earthquakes are like a ripple effect from the larger one on Sendai's coast, and that this should quiet down and that the worst should be behind us.

I'm still planning on visiting Japan at the end of April, and to meet up with some board members if they haven't fled Tokyo by then. Or if they did flee, maybe they'd return by then. So far I do not intend to cancel my travel plans nor my wife and daughter's. They are non-refundable anyway, and I don't know if I can change the itinerary.

[burgerkingdiamond]

I was in Sasebo last January working for the Navy. We were supposed to go back this May for 3 weeks to finish up our job. Sasebo is far from Fukushima so I think it would be safe. If the situation gets bad enough to where people that far south have to worry about radiation then the whole country would be pretty fucked.

However, there are 2 people from my office that are in Yokosuka, which is considerably closer. I've heard reports in my office that people at the Naval Base there have been exposed to 20 millirems of radiation in one day, which I think is the safe dose for a whole month. I'm taking these reports with a grain of salt because as news travels from person to person it can become distroted, but if that's the case it's pretty worrying. I hear that the reactors keep getting worse and worse so the threat of higher doses seems likely.

[greg]

I'm not an expert, but I believe you are allowed up to 5 millirems per hour. 20 per day is no problem. 20 per hour, on the other hand, is serious. Meanwhile, I heard that the American news media is trying to scare everyone by telling that a blanket of radiation is already heading over to the USA. At least that's what a coworker told me today. She said that his morning on ABC they showed a map of radiation 10 days after and it'll be covering the entire US! ZOMG! We're all gonna mutate and die! (lulz)

[brentsg]

They are non-refundable anyway, and I don't know if I can change the itinerary.

Perhaps there is some fine print. I would not be surprised if they let you make cancelations or adjustments in the wake of a large scale disaster like this.

[brentsg]

I'm not an expert, but I believe you are allowed up to 5 millirems per hour. 20 per day is no problem. 20 per hour, on the other hand, is serious. Meanwhile, I heard that the American news media is trying to scare everyone by telling that a blanket of radiation is already heading over to the USA. At least that's what a coworker told me today. She said that his morning on ABC they showed a map of radiation 10 days after and it'll be covering the entire US! ZOMG! We're all gonna mutate and die! (lulz)

There was a map that went viral but I haven't seen it covered in the media. It was a fake of course.

[burgerkingdiamond]

I'm not an expert, but I believe you are allowed up to 5 millirems per hour. 20 per day is no problem. 20 per hour, on the other hand, is serious. Meanwhile, I heard that the American news media is trying to scare everyone by telling that a blanket of radiation is already heading over to the USA. At least that's what a coworker told me today. She said that his morning on ABC they showed a map of radiation 10 days after and it'll be covering the entire US! ZOMG! We're all gonna mutate and die! (lulz)

I asked a co worker cuz I couldn't remember the number. It was 20 millirems in 12 hours, not a day. According to your numbers I guess it doesn't seem bad.

[moozooh]

As the sea water used to cool the reactor is being drained back to the ocean (well, where else?), I suggest avoiding fish and sea products found in Kuroshio Current. This is regardless of how the whole ordeal ends. Sea water in the region is already polluted.

[burgerkingdiamond]

As the sea water used to cool the reactor is being drained back to the ocean (well, where else?), I suggest avoiding fish and sea products found in Kuroshio Current. This is regardless of how the whole ordeal ends. Sea water in the region is already polluted.

I was wondering about that.. Since it's a BWR sea water is directly flowing over the fuel rods and core so it's gonna be contaminated as hell. That's gonna be fucked for the ocean.

[Blackbird]

Any advice regarding the best place to put my aid money? I want to do this today, so if no one hollers otherwise, it's going to the Salvation Army.

[greg]

I've donated a little to Red Cross so far, but not much since they aren't that popular. I've heard something about the president of the Red Cross making tons of money for himself even though it's supposed to be a non-profit org. I took a crap shoot and gave a significantly larger donation to globalgiving.org. They seem decent enough.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/jap ... d=13122660

I'd say www.internationalmedicalcorps.org seems like it may be a good way to go too.