7th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time! - Results

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Thu May 28, 2009 10:19 am

There have been boosting threads in times past - I think they referenced one of the previous ones somewhere. Last year Ceph did one for Nexzr, for instance.

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Thu May 28, 2009 10:21 am

Perhaps next year, actually voting could be a qualification for being able to bitch about the voting? This does make sense.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu May 28, 2009 10:42 am

Acid King wrote:Ketsui's position this year is another relic of the voting system. I'd like to see Ketsui's position without the two heavily skewed votes from Sonic R, which was obviously a joke vote, and JAPJAC, who we know has a hard on for the game. Without those two weighted votes, it would probably fall a few positions.

You can guess just by looking at the # of votes on page 5. It'd be about 10th. Radiant Silvergun also got a 5+ position boost.

Chi_Ryu · Post by **Chi_Ryu** » Thu May 28, 2009 11:33 am

Elixir wrote:This entire thread is bandwagoning Ketsui and er, there was also a thread on cave-stg titled "Ketsui Defense Force" but it's deleted now. Probably because it was spam.

Yes, thanks for pointing out the obvious. But now make the missing link - prove that most people voted for Ketsui on the strength of that thread (which - as has already been pointed out - was an in-joke anyway). "Most people" - that's your exact words.

Still waiting for the proof for "90% of people voting for Ketsui haven't played it", by the way.

Acid King wrote:I'd like to see Ketsui's position without the two heavily skewed votes from Sonic R, which was obviously a joke vote, and JAPJAC, who we know has a hard on for the game.

OK, I'll bite. Let's adjust those two votes to a sliding scale of [25] for Ketsui, descending down 1 at a time (so the next game is [24], the next [23] etc.), that would seem fair (although then you should do this to other similar votes e.g. J^aws).

The weighted total votes for Ketsui in this instance for each person would then be 0.077 (as opposed to 0.510 if all other games are weighted [1]). This makes the total adjusted figure for Ketsui Kizuna Jigoku Tachi as 4.94296 - thus it would have been 8th.

(Also, from Sonic_R, Battle Garegga would have lost 0.008 points, DDP DOJ would have lost 0.014 points, RFJ would have lost 0.005 points, Border down would have lost 0.011 points and R-Type would have gained 0.020. From JAPJAC, Sokyugurentai would have lost 0.007 points, and R-Type gained 0.016 points and Border down gained 0.023 points - none of these changes affect any other placings)

On a totally different topic, here's something worth observing in this year's poll. The number of voters was 105, up from 89 last year. This is a significant increase (17.9% in fact). That opens the possibility that the newcomers were voting for games such as Ketsui quite legitimately (I did, markedkiller78 did, and that's just two).

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Thu May 28, 2009 11:41 am

Chi_Ryu wrote:On a totally different topic, here's something worth observing in this year's poll. The number of voters was 105, up from 89 last year. This is a significant increase (17.9% in fact). That opens the possibility that the newcomers were voting for games such as Ketsui quite legitimately (I did, markedkiller78 did, and that's just two).

My first voting year too, and I have a loaned Ketsui PCB in my EGRET II right now if that counts as a legitimate vote.

Post by **spadgy** » Thu May 28, 2009 12:20 pm

Chi_Ryu wrote:
spadgy wrote:Is Raiden DX the oldest game on the main list?
No, R-Type trumps that by 7 years.

Oops! What a dick I am - blatantly knew that and was just being an idiot!

BIL · Post by **BIL** » Thu May 28, 2009 12:41 pm

ForceDevice wrote:
Bill wrote:It was 19th last year.
..was it? I guess my memory must be really bad then.
So I'm supposed to be sad because it dropped to the HM instead of glad it's even there? ._.

Check the first page dude. Or don't... along with Treasure's three, TFIII & IV and Gradius Gaiden, it's all been downhill for poor Souky.

ForceDevice · Post by **ForceDevice** » Thu May 28, 2009 12:53 pm

Bill wrote:
ForceDevice wrote:
Bill wrote:It was 19th last year.
..was it? I guess my memory must be really bad then.
So I'm supposed to be sad because it dropped to the HM instead of glad it's even there? ._.
Check the first page dude. Or don't... along with Treasure's three, TFIII & IV and Gradius Gaiden, it's all been downhill for poor Souky.

I just did. Didn't even notice Incognoscente's comments were there before.

Oh well. Guess all I can do is help putting it back up again next year. Along with R-Type Delta.

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Thu May 28, 2009 2:15 pm

sikraiken wrote:Garegga is too high
DDP does not belong above DOJ
APB? hahaha
ESPGaluda doesn't belong in the top 25, the Arranged version does (yes I see it's noted, they are quite different games in my opinion though)
Mushi is garbage
Ikaruga should be lower than Gradius V
Guwange above Progear and Dangun?
Drop Radiant Silvergun. It's overrated.
Why is Mars Matrix here?
Batsugun should be higher
No to Border Down
You guys haven't even played Futari

What is wrong with people

You have absolutely shit taste in shooters.

MadScientist · Post by **MadScientist** » Thu May 28, 2009 2:43 pm

Only thing I would really change about the chart is having a Darius or Thunderforce in instead of Border Down. Seems wrong to have a top 25 without an entry from either of those two long running series.

markedkiller78 · Post by **markedkiller78** » Thu May 28, 2009 4:39 pm

Elixir wrote:
markedkiller78 wrote:That you talk shit.
Except I don't. Apparently according to your fellow Scottish friend charlie chong, giving evidence that you've accomplished something in a game means you've backed up your claim by having experience with said game, ignoring that people could have spent equal to or above the amount of time I did with it and still haven't cleared it. And then that isn't even the point, the point is most people jumped into the bandwagon because of the bandwagon. Without it, there wouldn't be any PCB-only game in fourth right now.

I'm really not sure where the discrepancies for "innocent until proven guilty" lie, can you tell me more about that glorious education system in Scotland you have? Maybe proving my own game time will finallly shut everyone up and everyone will be under my assumption that the majority of people who voted for Ketsui, didn't play it or don't own it. I'm not JAPJAC, I'm not going to eat breathe and shit Ketsui every weeping moment of my life.

markedkiller78 wrote:I also don't have a picture of me fucking the queen in the ass, I wonder if that's because I'm telling some porkies? If I had done either I'm pretty certain I would have found a camera from somewhere to imortalize the moment.
Excuse me for not reducing myself to posting photos of my Leet Gaming Skills. If I don't start spoon feeding 1ccs down everyone's throat people might start thinking I suck at games!

I prefer to keep things personal, like saying that you talk shit. It's easy to back up as you make outragous claims & throw made up statistics around.

You say you won't reduce your self to posting pics of the 1cc claims that you make, fair enough, but then you stoop to slating the Scottish Education system.

You are right, you're not JAPJAC but you are still an idiot

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu May 28, 2009 4:49 pm

who are the 30+ people who voted for ketsui without ever having played it? if you make an unsubstantiated claim like that, it's natural that people are gonna say you talk shit

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Thu May 28, 2009 4:57 pm

elixir is a dork

incognoscente · Post by **incognoscente** » Thu May 28, 2009 5:04 pm

Acid King wrote:I'd like to see Ketsui's position without the two heavily skewed votes from [Sonic R and JAPJAC]. Without those two weighted votes, it would probably fall a few positions.

If both ballots are removed, Ketsui drops three positions. If counted as linearly descending lists, Ketsui drops only two positions.

Removed:
001. Battle Garegga (ARC/SAT)
002. Dodonpachi (ARC)
003. Dodonpachi daioujou / Black Label (ARC/PS2)
004. Armed Police Batrider (ARC)
005. ESPGaluda / Arrange (ARC/PS2)
006. Mushihimesama (ARC/PS2)
007. Ketsui kizuna jigoku tachi (ARC)
008. Ikaruga (ARC/DC/GC/XBLA)
009. Gradius V (PS2)
010. Guwange (ARC)
011. Radiant Silvergun (SAT/ARC)
012. Mars Matrix (ARC/DC)
013. Raiden DX (ARC/PS1)
014. Progear no Arashi (ARC)
015. Batsugun / Special Ver. (ARC)
016. Dangun Feveron (ARC)
017. Raiden Fighters Jet (ARC)
018. ESP Ra. De. (ARC)
019. Ibara (ARC/PS2)
020. Strikers 1945 II (ARC)
021. Giga Wing (ARC/DC)
022. R-Type (ARC/PCE)
023. Mushihimesama Futari / 1.5 / Black Label (ARC)
024. Border Down (ARC/DC)
025. Rayforce/Layer Section/Galactic Attack (ARC/SAT)
Honourable Mention is unchanged

Adjusted:
001. Battle Garegga (ARC/SAT)
002. Dodonpachi (ARC)
003. Dodonpachi daioujou / Black Label (ARC/PS2)
004. Armed Police Batrider (ARC)
005. ESPGaluda / Arrange (ARC/PS2)
006. Ketsui kizuna jigoku tachi (ARC)
007. Mushihimesama (ARC/PS2)
008. Ikaruga (ARC/DC/GC/XBLA)
009. Gradius V (PS2)
010. Guwange (ARC)
011. Radiant Silvergun (SAT/ARC)
012. Mars Matrix (ARC/DC)
013. Raiden DX (ARC/PS1)
014. Progear no Arashi (ARC)
015. Batsugun / Special Ver. (ARC)
016. Dangun Feveron (ARC)
017. Raiden Fighters Jet (ARC)
018. ESP Ra. De. (ARC)
019. Ibara (ARC/PS2)
020. Strikers 1945 II (ARC)
021. R-Type (ARC/PCE)
022. Border Down (ARC/DC)
023. Rayforce/Layer Section/Galactic Attack (ARC/SAT)
024. Giga Wing (ARC/DC)
025. Mushihimesama Futari / 1.5 / Black Label (ARC)
Strikers 1945 is replaced by Summer Carnival '92: Recca in the Honourable Mention.

FIL · Post by **FIL** » Thu May 28, 2009 5:21 pm

I don't know how to feel about the chart. There is quite a lot of stuff i'd like to see higher up the chart but there are only 3 games maybe that I don't think are contenders for the top 25.

As a definitive list of the shumps ever I think the jury is still out, but as a shmups forum zeitgeist I don't think it can really be faulted.

As controversial as it seems to have been I don't think it is a big surprise to see Garegga at the top, i'm actually quite surprised that it hasn't been in the top slot before. As grey and brown as it is, I really like the graphics and I don't think anyone could deny that it has the kind of depth worthy of the top slot.

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Thu May 28, 2009 7:38 pm

sikraiken wrote:Garegga is too high
DDP does not belong above DOJ
APB? hahaha
ESPGaluda doesn't belong in the top 25, the Arranged version does (yes I see it's noted, they are quite different games in my opinion though)
Mushi is garbage
Ikaruga should be lower than Gradius V
Guwange above Progear and Dangun?
Drop Radiant Silvergun. It's overrated.
Why is Mars Matrix here?
Batsugun should be higher
No to Border Down
You guys haven't even played Futar

agree

disagree

whatever

must do one day!

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Thu May 28, 2009 9:00 pm

Elixir wrote:there was also a thread on cave-stg titled "Ketsui Defense Force" but it's deleted now.

No, it was never deleted. It's in the same place it's always been (in the Ura loop forum).

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu May 28, 2009 9:10 pm

Super Laydock wrote: agree

Mars Matrix consumes Giga Wings before breakfast. I say this as Takumi fan overlord so it must be true. Another fact: it was so good they knew they couldn't improve it. They tried improving GW twice. If it wasn't for Naomi graphics GW2 would be unquestionably better (edit: than GW1, not MM

).

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Thu May 28, 2009 9:25 pm

Chi_Ryu wrote: Still waiting for the proof for "90% of people voting for Ketsui haven't played it", by the way.

ok, i confess.. elixirs gamerscore cheating has inspired me to step forward.

all my ketsui hiscores are actually just photoshopped d-force hiscores, ive never played ketsui at all.
and all the vids i made were really just gachapon cabs and legomen.. bragging on this forum makes me feel like a bigtymer, i just cant help it.

please forgive me.

Dale · Post by **Dale** » Thu May 28, 2009 9:27 pm

Rob wrote:
Super Laydock wrote: agree
If it wasn't for Naomi graphics GW2 would be unquestionably better (edit: than GW1, not MM ).

Yeah,too bad huh?

I play most Cave shmups for Survival/Fun which makes them more enjoyable. I only like Dangun and Ketrsui's scoring.

Anyone who hates on Cave's graphics hasn't seen Espg2 or Futari in person.

Doctor Fugue · Post by **Doctor Fugue** » Thu May 28, 2009 9:29 pm

Not limited in its hunger, Mars Matrix eats Gradius and Ikaruga for lunch. At dinner, it gorges itself on a substantial meal of Ketsui followed by a delicate dessert of Guwange.

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Thu May 28, 2009 9:36 pm

sven666 wrote:please forgive me.

NEVAAAAAR!!!1

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Thu May 28, 2009 10:05 pm

Doctor Fugue wrote:Not limited in its hunger, Mars Matrix eats Gradius and Ikaruga for lunch. At dinner, it gorges itself on a substantial meal of Ketsui followed by a delicate dessert of Guwange.

....and then you woke up

core · Post by **core** » Thu May 28, 2009 10:07 pm

Mars Matrix is too busy having a seizure to eat anything.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu May 28, 2009 10:08 pm

sven666 wrote:ive never played ketsui at all.

the first step is admitting you have a problem, and your courage has given me strength. i too have never played ketsui. any scores you see with "jpj" written are actually from my biological father, the bass player in led zeppelin, John Paul Jones

i'm deeply ashamed of trying to live vicariously through his mediocre shmup scores and hope you can all forgive my perjury.

....oh, and there was also this one time where i killed someone becuase he annoyed me

Nukebelly · Post by **Nukebelly** » Thu May 28, 2009 11:24 pm

I bought Mars Matrix for my DC the week it came to the US..

Althought I still suck at it, I always end up playin MM when I load up MAME on the pc.. Not sure what it is about this game that draws me to it..

louisg · Post by **louisg** » Fri May 29, 2009 1:35 am

Rob wrote:If it wasn't for Naomi graphics GW2 would be unquestionably better (edit: than GW1, not MM ).

Really? The second half of GW2 seems really rushed out to me. The red plane boss is a bit cheap the first time you play it, and the levels seem to have less structure. IMO, the increased amount of bullets in the second part of the game actually works against the difficulty level because of the way the GW shield works: you know when to shield when there is any kind of break in the fire. And then it just becomes, like, nonstop medal volcanos at that point.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri May 29, 2009 1:57 am

louisg wrote:IMO, the increased amount of bullets in the second part of the game actually works against the difficulty level because of the way the GW shield works: you know when to shield when there is any kind of break in the fire. And then it just becomes, like, nonstop medal volcanos at that point.

By that point it's just bonus points and maxing isn't easy.

This is one of the things that sets GWs and MM apart. All sorts of possibilities open up when you can tap reflect or hold down to a split sec before the GHB. GW2 is a little more obvious about it, but all GWs are the same in that regard. Once you start a reflect you've basically planned your shield strategy for the entire stage. Many parts require a reflect as soon as it's recharged.

They should've joined stages 5-7 and maybe added a little filler between the bosses. Item volcanoes were the coolest. Oh yeah, and completely wrecking those thick patterns felt a lot cooler than the scattered stuff in 1. Visual overload.

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Fri May 29, 2009 9:24 am

Hrmm..hrmm...guess I should voice my opinion...

Battle Garegga is completely awesome, so good for it.

Some of the newer Cave games...I never did get why they are so high up. Mushihimesama...it's OK. DOJ is too hard to be fun(for me), and Galuda is good, but not top 10 material. I'm a much bigger fan of Ra.de.(glad to see it moving on up...should be top 15 material).

Seriously, has enough people actually played Ketsui for it to be that high up?

Actually, don't really agree with a lot of this list(liked the last few years better), but I didn't vote, so I can't really complain.

Oh, and Ikaruga should be higher!(gotta fight the backlash!)

s/m

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Fri May 29, 2009 9:29 am

The Coop wrote:I can not take a list, that doesn't have Thunder Force IV in the top 25, seriously.

I'm going to go sulk now.

Absolutely! I was just playing this game...it's one of the best.