DoDonPachi Saidaioujou coming to Xbox 360 (REGION-FREE!)

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

It might not have much of a reason for "you" to keep it on but I've seen your replays and you aren't human, despite your best efforts to pretend. People could definitely use extra bombs for getting their first clear. I don't even know how you'd argue against it, though the port vids don't look...well as hard as the pcb per rank level.

I'm just talking about getting a basic clear without this level 10 stuff in mind. I didn't know about the level 10 stuff until after the port was released.

[japtor]

I was having trouble clearing Novice again until I turned auto bomb on, I was just dying way too much on a section or two and I guess just really suck at bombing manually there.

On Arcade/1.5 I leave it off cause I really need the extra stock here and there and I'm not good enough to take advantage of this or that by leaving it on, the score hits from the auto bomb feel like they hurt more for me. I guess I'll try it next time and see how I do.

[Zengeku3]

It might not have much of a reason for "you" to keep it on but I've seen your replays and you aren't human, despite your best efforts to pretend. People could definitely use extra bombs for getting their first clear. I don't even know how you'd argue against it, though the port vids don't look...well as hard as the pcb per rank level.

Well yeah, those extra bombs will only benefit the player if the player can reliably use all of them. I cannot say anything for certain but speaking from my own experiences with this game, granted - they are quite limited - most of my deaths are the result of accidentally touching a bullet i didn't realize was there or crashing into it by fucking up the input. No amount of bomb reflexes can really safeguard you against that I think. It's more prudent for a player who sucks to just go with the auto-bomb on.

I don't know how many extra bombs you can get with auto-bombs off but it would have to be a crapton to be worth trading off the safety net auto-bombs give you.

[Acid_Rain]

How would you sort modes by difficulty? Do you think Novice Expert is harder than Arcade/1.5 Shot and Laser?

[hail good sir]

Once you get used to tap dodging the popcorn I'd say it's like... 2/3 as hard as arcade, if novice is 1/2. The boss patterns have a weird difficulty progression, I find the final stage 2 boss pattern to be really hard but all of the stage 3 boss ones to be really easy.

You can also abuse the crap out of slowdown in novice expert by holding shot through pretty much all of stage 5 including a lot of the final boss patterns so it's like playing touhou on normal, if not even slower, in most places in stage 5 (with type A at least, D is even worse of course but I never tried B or C really.) I've been able to make it to the stage 5 boss in novice expert with about 3-4 nights of solid play. Arcade stage 4 is still a very tall and thick concrete wall to me and I am it's crash test dummy.

Arcade is really good at the mindfuck aspect, to me, where novice expert may be dense in parts it's still pretty friendly to sort through it.

[J_Taishu]

It might not have much of a reason for "you" to keep it on but I've seen your replays and you aren't human, despite your best efforts to pretend. People could definitely use extra bombs for getting their first clear. I don't even know how you'd argue against it, though the port vids don't look...well as hard as the pcb per rank level.

Well yeah, those extra bombs will only benefit the player if the player can reliably use all of them. I cannot say anything for certain but speaking from my own experiences with this game, granted - they are quite limited - most of my deaths are the result of accidentally touching a bullet i didn't realize was there or crashing into it by fucking up the input. No amount of bomb reflexes can really safeguard you against that I think. It's more prudent for a player who sucks to just go with the auto-bomb on.

I don't know how many extra bombs you can get with auto-bombs off but it would have to be a crapton to be worth trading off the safety net auto-bombs give you.

6 lives, 3 at the start and 3 extends.

6 * 3 = 18 bombs in shot mode with Auto-bomb
3 + 4+ 5 + 6 + 6 + 6 = 30 bombs in shot mode without Auto-bomb.

I'd say that 12 is a "crapton" of bombs.

[Zengeku3]

How would you sort modes by difficulty? Do you think Novice Expert is harder than Arcade/1.5 Shot and Laser?

The entirity of Novice Expert, I think is still easier than Arcade mode's Stage 5 alone. Nothing is really dangerous in the first four stages of Novice Expert and Stage 5 is still easier than it's Arcade counterpart. I cleared Novice Expert on a single blind credit with lives to spare but I still haven't been able to do anything against the final stage in Arcade. I think there's a large leap of difficulty between the two modes.

6 lives, 3 at the start and 3 extends.
6 * 3 = 18 bombs in shot mode with Auto-bomb
3 + 4+ 5 + 6 + 6 + 6 = 30 bombs in shot mode without Auto-bomb.
I'd say that 12 is a "crapton" of bombs.

Depends on what sort of stuff gives you trouble then. I wasn't aware that you got that many extra bombs out of choosing to go with auto-bombs off but I still don't think it would benefit someone like me for example. The vast majority of the hits i take are due to something that I didn't see or because i flew into something by accident. All those extra bombs wouldn't really help me if I'm getting hit before I know it basically.

If however you don't have that problem and is consistently able to bomb before you get hit then you should by all means go with auto-bomb off. I just don't think it'll help a player having problems beating the game.

[-S.L-]

[...]though the port vids don't look...well as hard as the pcb per rank level.

[...]

i second that, I'm playing the PCB since the release (but didn't try yet the port unfortunatly), i had exactly the same feeling by watching that Inbachi all clear. Bullets seems way slower even at a higher rank on the port. Now superplay always looks easier than the game is really. BUT....still thinking that too for now.... untill i play the xbox port.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

I don't think the port is accurate. eckart said he broke his old pcb record in no time. And not to take anything away from this Inbachi clear, which was amazing, but are we to believe this guy did in a week what the Japanese haven't done in a year? Cave has made other ports easier too from what I've heard, like supposedly Pink Sweets' rank raises slower on the port. Which means it's easier. Even just the fact that it has more slowdown too, means it's easier than the pcb.

[CptRansom]

If someone with PCB and port access can confirm it, I'll split the HS tables.

[-S.L-]

I will be able to confirm that in 10 days for you.

and I certainly WILL say it out loud if it's the case.

for the defense of beating inbachi, is there at least a training mode for this, so it could be "possible" to at least have some kind of plan to beat it for real ? - I don't doubt one second he did it, I'm just saying that Japanese didnt have the chance to "train" on this bad girl, maybe it's possible with the port now ?

[MSZ]

[...]though the port vids don't look...well as hard as the pcb per rank level.

[...]

i second that, I'm playing the PCB since the release (but didn't try yet the port unfortunatly), i had exactly the same feeling by watching that Inbachi all clear. Bullets seems way slower even at a higher rank on the port. Now superplay always looks easier than the game is really. BUT....still thinking that too for now.... untill i play the xbox port.

You should wait until you have your copy on hand to compare it to the PCB. Watching the video on youtube and on my setup(tated 23" monitor)don't really look the same, the overall game speed moves a lot faster on my setup.

[-S.L-]

thats' what I just said just above your post, as we wrote at the same time

[MSZ]

thats' what I just said just above your post, as we wrote at the same time

Well, you can play against Hibachi/Inbachi anytime in training mode.

[-S.L-]

I guess that's a great helper to train an beat it then, althou you still need heavy skills and lots of luck, of course !

[awo]

And not to take anything away from this Inbachi clear, which was amazing, but are we to believe this guy did in a week what the Japanese haven't done in a year?

lionmanggg is Japanese (also one of the best players in the world in regard to pure survival skills), so I am not sure why you are separating him from the "Japanese". I'm sure he's played the arcade version for the past year as well, since he posted an Expert mode ALL on the first day of the port's release. He also had 3 weeks, not "a week", to practice Inbachi on the port's training mode. I reckon if Arcade players had access to that Inbachi would have been beaten long ago. There's no additional slowdown in the Inbachi fight on the port, and it runs the same speed as on the PCB.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

1-3 weeks, whatever. Didn't know he was Japanese. Point is it's not an accurate port. They lowered the difficulty.

[Drake]

"Point is" your entire support for your claim benched on the guy not being Japanese and having a week to do it. And "eckart said he broke his old pcb record in no time"? What? Of course that's reasonable. It isn't as if his experience on the PCB doesn't apply to the port, never mind them being the same game.

Back up your claims, man.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

OK I'll buy a 360 and wire the controller into my supergun and run them simultaneously with an impossible recording setup. Just hang on.

[Drake]

Alright cool, just tell me when you're done so we can see your findings.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Will definitely keep you updated.

[Stevas]

Is there something weird still going on with the high score tables? Am I being a massive spastic?
You all get three guesses and the first one is: "what the very fuck was the question, again?"

So I can post a pitiful score to the 360 mode tables, but whenever I play 1.5 or any other mode, seemingly whatever I select from the confusing round of red and green button presses that shout at me after dying results in NO SCORE, LOSER! (For fuck sake, Cave - if I select to not do something, JUST TAKE THAT AS MY CHOICE ALREADY, WILL YOU?)

I have saving replays switched to off in all modes, yet I still seem to get asked about them, annoyingly. This does not happen on 360 mode, however: I get asked one question, I press green - "uploading something!" (in japanese, though) - and the score is there.

The other modes, though, even if press green at both requests, no score. What gives? Is the message I get afterwards basically the japanese for "shit, you really suck at this, don't you? Let's just pretend you didn't even try to post that score, eh? Keep it between ourselves, like."

[NTSC-J]

[...]though the port vids don't look...well as hard as the pcb per rank level.

[...]

i second that, I'm playing the PCB since the release (but didn't try yet the port unfortunatly), i had exactly the same feeling by watching that Inbachi all clear. Bullets seems way slower even at a higher rank on the port. Now superplay always looks easier than the game is really. BUT....still thinking that too for now.... untill i play the xbox port.

I don't think the port is accurate. eckart said he broke his old pcb record in no time. And not to take anything away from this Inbachi clear, which was amazing, but are we to believe this guy did in a week what the Japanese haven't done in a year? Cave has made other ports easier too from what I've heard, like supposedly Pink Sweets' rank raises slower on the port. Which means it's easier. Even just the fact that it has more slowdown too, means it's easier than the pcb.

I think it's a pretty accurate port, myself. It's not perfect (feels like there's more slowdown when activating hypers), but it's close enough that I don't think it's worth splitting high score tables. If Jaimers were to play on the PCB, I find it hard to believe that he'd suddenly be fumbling around and crashing into things because of the blistering difficulty; I think he'd pound Hibachi just as easily as he did on the port. Same with lionmanggg who obviously beat Inbachi because of the practice mode.

[DrTrouserPlank]

Is there something weird still going on with the high score tables? Am I being a massive spastic?
You all get three guesses and the first one is: "what the very fuck was the question, again?"

So I can post a pitiful score to the 360 mode tables, but whenever I play 1.5 or any other mode, seemingly whatever I select from the confusing round of red and green button presses that shout at me after dying results in NO SCORE, LOSER! (For fuck sake, Cave - if I select to not do something, JUST TAKE THAT AS MY CHOICE ALREADY, WILL YOU?)

I have saving replays switched to off in all modes, yet I still seem to get asked about them, annoyingly. This does not happen on 360 mode, however: I get asked one question, I press green - "uploading something!" (in japanese, though) - and the score is there.

The other modes, though, even if press green at both requests, no score. What gives? Is the message I get afterwards basically the japanese for "shit, you really suck at this, don't you? Let's just pretend you didn't even try to post that score, eh? Keep it between ourselves, like."

The selections after a run are

"do you want to save a replay.... Yes A, No B"
"do you want to upload score"
"do you want to upload replay for score"

if you select "no" to any of these options you will get the "are you sure" question after it which you need to cycle before the next question appears.

When you go to the leaderboards you have to select the shot and ship type specific to the score that you uploaded, these are selected using the triggers and R+L buttons.
X toggles "your position" and "friends" and "all scores".

[
This quote is one for the ages:

—Compared with the other games in the Dodonpachi series, how do you feel about Saidaioujou?

Yagawa: It’s way too hard.

Yagawa, VP of stating the bloody obvious.

Never occurred to me to quote someone before they said something. Innovative.

Thanks

[Sumez]

Just adding here that I finished that SDOJ LE artbook interview... been sitting on it to launch with shmuplations, and you can now read it here: http://shmuplations.com/sdoj-book/

This quote is one for the ages:

—Compared with the other games in the Dodonpachi series, how do you feel about Saidaioujou?

Yagawa: It’s way too hard.

[NTSC-J]

Never occurred to me to quote someone before they said something. Innovative.

[Sumez]

The good doctor is a master at these things.

[DrTrouserPlank]

I will say one thing positive about this game.

At least it doesn't drop your chain like DFK does because you haven't killed anything for 1/1000th of a second. DFK virtually drops the chain even if you are still obliterating the screen.

[-S.L-]

[...]though the port vids don't look...well as hard as the pcb per rank level.

[...]

i second that, I'm playing the PCB since the release (but didn't try yet the port unfortunatly), i had exactly the same feeling by watching that Inbachi all clear. Bullets seems way slower even at a higher rank on the port. Now superplay always looks easier than the game is really. BUT....still thinking that too for now.... untill i play the xbox port.

I don't think the port is accurate. eckart said he broke his old pcb record in no time. And not to take anything away from this Inbachi clear, which was amazing, but are we to believe this guy did in a week what the Japanese haven't done in a year? Cave has made other ports easier too from what I've heard, like supposedly Pink Sweets' rank raises slower on the port. Which means it's easier. Even just the fact that it has more slowdown too, means it's easier than the pcb.

I think it's a pretty accurate port, myself. It's not perfect (feels like there's more slowdown when activating hypers), but it's close enough that I don't think it's worth splitting high score tables. If Jaimers were to play on the PCB, I find it hard to believe that he'd suddenly be fumbling around and crashing into things because of the blistering difficulty; I think he'd pound Hibachi just as easily as he did on the port. Same with lionmanggg who obviously beat Inbachi because of the practice mode.

no worries, if after my try on the port reveal that the game is genuinly accurate, I will also apologise and say it here, of course.

actually, if the game is easier on the port, i'm more than happy coz it's too difficult on my PCB

[DrTrouserPlank]

I think some of the people here who've disagreed with me about how hard novice is (even though they've clearly not even played it) should go ahead and see how easily they can clear it. That doesn't mean playing the first two stages and deciding that it's too easy, it means playing the whole game.

You can stick autobomb on (for what little use it is) and see if you can clear it, then come back here and tell us how many hours of practice you actually had to put in... not that I'd imagine anyone would actually admit to doing so here for fear of losing face.

I've come to the conclusion that novice is about the only part of the package with any value at all, and even that is too hard and I don't particularly like it. The whole game just feels cheap with it's ultra-speed screen filling "patterns". I've never died so many times on the first two stages of an arcade mode as I have in this game. The game is clearly one massive joke for the developers at the players expense.