Castlevania Miscellanies

[Steven]

I do want to check out those N64 games eventually too. Left my N64 in the USA, but I think I'll be okay with emulation for these unless something is super broken with the emulation. Don't know how good N64 emulation is at this point and my only experience with N64 emulation in general was playing Zelda using only a keyboard (it's a miracle that I don't have nightmares about the unbelievable difficulty of trying to hit Hookshot targets with the keyboard) 20 years ago.

[1KMS]

Castlevania: Belmont‘s Curse announced.
https://youtu.be/3k9Yy-o6tpo
https://www.konami.com/games/castlevani ... /us/en-us/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/4231 ... nts_Curse/

[Steven]

Please be good Castlevania and not bootleg Super Metroid. That is what it's probably going to be, but damn do I wish this series would return to what it was prior to 1995. Also give me X68000 Dracula please Konmai. Might stop calling you Konmai if you do~ No promises, though.

Speaking of that, this new game does not have the Akumajou Dracula title, it's Castlevania even in Japan. I know they did that for a few games about 20 years ago, and that there was a specific reason for that, but I don't remember what it was.

[To Far Away Times]

Glad the franchise is alive, but that art style is not doing it for me. I can already play a vast number of indie Metroidvania’s that look like this or better.

Castlevania is, for me, about lush and detailed gothic environments and atmosphere with absolute top tier production values.

Games like Castlevania IV, Rondo, SoTN, or the GBA/DS entries… they’re all stunning and the craftsmanship is off the charts. This just looks like many other low budget indie games in terms of production value.

In the trailer I keep losing sight of the main character because of how they blend in with the backgrounds, and it’s only the hit sparks that sort of draw my eye back to where the character is in all that messiness. Way too much screen shake too. That certainly doesn’t help with a low clarity situation either. Art style is in the eye of the beholder, but I dunno, sometimes you can just straight up make a bad decision.

I’m not trying to knock their efforts here but when you use “Castlevania” in the title, it means something beyond recognizing a brand name, and they really need to put up the time and money and get the presentation up to series standards if they want this to measure up.

[Sima Tuna]

Please be good Castlevania and not bootleg Super Metroid. That is what it's probably going to be, but damn do I wish this series would return to what it was prior to 1995. Also give me X68000 Dracula please Konmai. Might stop calling you Konmai if you do~ No promises, though.

Speaking of that, this new game does not have the Akumajou Dracula title, it's Castlevania even in Japan. I know they did that for a few games about 20 years ago, and that there was a specific reason for that, but I don't remember what it was.

It's the age-old war, isn't it? The Classics vs the Igavania Young Bloods.

Me, I just like good games. I know that sounds arrogant but I can't think of a way to say it. I like CV3, I like Rondo and Bloodlines. I also like Symphony of the Night and my favorite Castlevania game is probably Aria of Sorrow.

From my perspective, Konami is giving preference to metroidvanias because they'd be fools not to exploit the extreme popularity of that genre and their role in helping to create it. The comments for the reveal trailer are full of metroidvania fans going nuts, so I guess it's working.

At least this new CV looks less shit than the new God of War! Now there's a game that looks like it was designed by AI. I'm not super impressed with the look of the new CV but I'll wait and see. Level design and progression are the major pillars of metroidvanias and if it has those elements then it could look like complete vomit (like Bloodstained does imo) and will still have plenty of defenders.

[Sima Tuna]

To Far Away Times:

I can already play a vast number of indie Metroidvania’s that look like this or better.

I mean, if that's your standard then you pretty much can't play any Nintendo metroidvanias either. The indie MVs have been dominant in terms of art direction and visuals ever since... Ori? Maybe before that. The last (in my opinion) genuinely good-looking metroidvania from Nintendo was probably Prime 1 or Prime 2. The 3ds Samus Returned looked pretty bad imo and I was not a fan of the art direction for Dread, or the weird Apple iPhone color scheme. Blasphemous visually stomps on any MV made in the last 10-20 years.

[Steven]

In the trailer I keep losing sight of the main character because of how they blend in with the backgrounds, and it’s only the hit sparks that sort of draw my eye back to where the character is in all that messiness. Way too much screen shake too. That certainly doesn’t help with a low clarity situation either. Art style is in the eye of the beholder, but I dunno, sometimes you can just straight up make a bad decision.

You too huh? I don't think that this game's graphics are especially good, and for these exact reasons. Yeah, it does look pretty generic too, but I'm more worried about visibility. Akumajou Densetsu has some problems with visibility as well. There are multiple parts where you're like WHERE ARE THE STAIRS AND WHY ARE THEY EXACTLY THE SAME COLOR AS EVERYTHING ELSE???, which was not great. Still a little (or maybe a lot) better than this, though.

Please be good Castlevania and not bootleg Super Metroid. That is what it's probably going to be, but damn do I wish this series would return to what it was prior to 1995. Also give me X68000 Dracula please Konmai. Might stop calling you Konmai if you do~ No promises, though.

Speaking of that, this new game does not have the Akumajou Dracula title, it's Castlevania even in Japan. I know they did that for a few games about 20 years ago, and that there was a specific reason for that, but I don't remember what it was.

It's the age-old war, isn't it? The Classics vs the Igavania Young Bloods.

Me, I just like good games. I know that sounds arrogant but I can't think of a way to say it. I like CV3, I like Rondo and Bloodlines. I also like Symphony of the Night and my favorite Castlevania game is probably Aria of Sorrow.

From my perspective, Konami is giving preference to metroidvanias because they'd be fools not to exploit the extreme popularity of that genre and their role in helping to create it. The comments for the reveal trailer are full of metroidvania fans going nuts, so I guess it's working.

I wasn't planning on turning this into a massive rant about how much I hate what Castlevania became, but that's how it turned out lol. Sorry in advance~

I just started playing these games a handful of years ago, and the first one I played was Akumajou Dracula for FDS. I didn't specifically choose that one because it's the first one that got released, I chose it because it happened to be on the Famicom Mini or whatever it's called that I bought (and which I will probably sell eventually because it's a dust collector due to those uncomfortably tiny controllers). I thought it was one of the coolest and best games I'd ever played. After that I played the rest of them in roughly release order thanks to that great collection M2 put out, and I got Rondo on PS4 and PC Engine, and I loved all of them (except the Game Boy games, which I have a neutral opinion of) just as much. These games have devious enemy placement that works in conjunction with master-class stage design, both of which go together with a difficulty level that demands that you either step up or get your ass kicked but is also well balanced (unless you are playing as Grant, lol), amazing soundtracks, and a unique but rather 80s-Toaplan-like attitude and style. No game in the series does all of these things better than the X68000 game, and that is why it's the best one.

Then I played Symphony of the Night and it has literally none of these things. You get a bunch of empty flat boring hallways with nothing in them, exploration "rewards" you with a billion identical swords and gear that are probably way weaker than what you already have equipped and healing items that you don't need because nothing can hurt you, there are way too many useless gimmick powerups or ones that you use a single time and then forget about for the rest of the game or that literally only have one or two places where they actually have some sort of effect, movement speed is WAY too slow (unless you turn into a dog, which in turn makes you suck at jumping, and that makes being the dog in the reverse castle, itself already a travesty of level design, cool as it is that they were able to implement it, basically pointless) combined with a map that is way too big and empty, and 90% of the music is uninteresting and generic orchestra stuff... though that one piece at the beginning before you fight Dracula as Richter is pretty great. I WANT to like this game. I SHOULD like this game. But I don't and I think it's god-awful. I've tried to like it, many times. Over 30 times, actually, which means it's likely that I have played the game more than some people that actually do like it. But I just can't.

I have probably said this before, but it's like they combined Metroid and Castlevania but decided to exclude everything that makes both of those good and cool and fun. Like why would you even do that? Ugh... Circle of the Moon (Japanese version) is okay and Gallery of Labyrinth (I have not played Portrait of Ruin, just Gallery of Labyrinth) is moderately more okay, which gives me the impression that they figured it out over time. Maybe I should try the ones that were in between those, but I am not expecting much. Maybe that's a good thing because maybe I will be blown away by how good they may turn out to be. I hope so. Those are some of the ones that do not have the Akumajou Dracula title and are instead called Castlevania even in Japan for whatever reason. I'll try them eventually. I have other stuff to play now, but I'll get there and be optimistic when I try them. I think I like Ecclesia more than the other post-Rondo games because it's something of a return to form and requires you to actually learn the game and play at minimum semi-skillfully, just like the older games. On hard mode it's also WAY harder than the older games, even without the level 1 cap.

I do agree with the Symphony devs that the series was getting stale by Rondo and that something had to change. It definitely had to happen. I don't like what it turned into, as I see it as a regression to something worse, something that lost all of what made its predecessors special, but it was a change, and probably the change that was needed, even though I hate it.

Something I want to say about Rondo that doesn't have anything to do with any of this: one of my friends once said that Rondo is a 6.5/10 or 7/10 game that is held up by its 10/10 graphics and music. I really wanted to argue against it when he said it, but after thinking about it for a few moments I realized that it's weird when you first think about it, but he's probably right, even if I didn't and still don't want to admit it. I have not played it for a while. Maybe I should pull out the SuperGrafx for the first time in a while and play it again.

Anyway, this new game probably wouldn't sell very well unless it's a Metroid clone. People want those now. I think what most people don't want anymore is the hyper-focused 30 minutes of masterfully-crafted tactical violence that Rondo and its predecessors offered, although Ecclesia does also offer that, and way more than 30 minutes of it. Everything has to be bloated with 100 hours of stuff now. It doesn't have to be good stuff because quality is irrelevant, just stuff. People won't have any interest in it otherwise, so that is what I expect. You can have 100 hours of extremely damn good and actually meaningful stuff in a modern game (hello Reverse Collapse), but I think it's relatively uncommon and most normal people (that means NOT us!) these days seem to care more about games being long than anything else, and game companies are increasingly risk-averse due to increasingly long and expensive dev cycles, so yeah.

At least this new CV looks less shit than the new God of War! Now there's a game that looks like it was designed by AI. I'm not super impressed with the look of the new CV but I'll wait and see. Level design and progression are the major pillars of metroidvanias and if it has those elements then it could look like complete vomit (like Bloodstained does imo) and will still have plenty of defenders.

Oh boy, God of War and Bloodstained, two things that I do not like at all. When I was in the military, my friends and I used to laugh at God of War. We said "All you need to do to play God of War is to get a controller, push the left analog stick up, and mash square and sometimes triangle. You don't even need to have the game, just grab a controller and mash square because that's all the game is," and... yeah, that's pretty much a perfect explanation! At least, that is how it was at the time when only the PS2 games and the PS3 ports of the PS2 games existed. I had the PS3 ports BTW. I have no idea what these games are like now, but those PS2 games were not very good at all and I'm not tempted to go check out what they have turned into. I think Sony's first-party games are by far the least attractive of all modern major console makers. Nintendo has Metroid and Microsoft has MS Flight Simulator. Sony has like nothing. I think you could probably have some mindless fun with old God of War if you just want to beat the crap out of things and I can respect that, but they are very brain = off types of games.

Now Bloodstained is just... shit. It's got Snake's English voice actor, yay! And then you play it for a few hours. And then you never want to play it again because it's super boring. And then you go back to it a few years later because maybe you were wrong about it... but you weren't, and then you still never want to play it again. At least you only paid $2 for it on Steam, so it's not a huge loss. I'd much rather play Symphony, even though just a few paragraphs ago I beat the crap out of it and said I hated it. It's a Kickstarter game though, and those tend to be not great at best for some reason, Xeno Crisis excepted.

Afterimage has some nice graphics, though. The animations are weird, but the graphics are super beautiful. Game's way too long for its own good, though. I highly prefer my Metroids and my not-Metroids to be in the 30~90 minute range, not the 20~40 hour range. Zero Mission also looks quite nice! Suitless Samus looks a bit odd somehow in cutscenes, but the in-game graphics are excellent. AM2R also looks extremely good, especially after it replaced most of the art it recycled from GBA Metroids with new custom art assets.

[NYN]

I notice from the shown material that the "young Belmont" is never properly shown. He, she, or other. For whatever surprise. When I saw damage count digits I was let down by the whole thing, art be secondary. It is only natural to exploit the popularity (really?) of the sub-genre. Exactly that status is what renders it unfit for fun for me. To me, Metroid and the Vania sub-sect became redundant, with ever other demand from these bad parents.

[Marc]

It's Dead Cells, you can tell immediately from the trailer.
Good news for me, not so much so for others.
.

[Steven]

He, she, or other.

Definitely she



Not that it really matters, I guess.

They also changed Ralph to Trevor for some stupid reason.

[NYN]

Aha, at least that is fresh. And the change from Ralph to Trevor around end of 80s: my guess is that at the time in colloquial terms "to ralph" was synonym to upchuck, as many here may know. Sounds silly, and so are name changes over perceived "territories", continents, or language spheres. I'm not in favor for any, and no marketing stooge ever asked me...

[1KMS]

I notice from the shown material that the "young Belmont" is never properly shown. He, she, or other. For whatever surprise.

Maybe holding off until they find an artist that can draw faces? I'm expecting a "kept you waiting" moment from a middle-aged Larf (ラルフ) Belmondo. Actually, it's a shame the French team didn't take the opportunity to reintroduce the original family name, considering it came from a French actor. I can't believe we still have to pretend they're called the Toadstool clan, based upon the whim of some mullet in 1986. MAD DAWG.

Then I played Symphony of the Night and it has literally none of these things.

Most "DraculaRoids" require "house rules" to take them out of the "diaper game" category. No damage/no HP items/no saves, etc. In the case of GNY/SOTN, I think it's worth the effort since the art and sound design are so good.

[Steven]

Most "DraculaRoids" require "house rules" to take them out of the "diaper game" category. No damage/no HP items/no saves, etc. In the case of GNY/SOTN, I think it's worth the effort since the art and sound design are so good.

That's fair enough... I'll consider it, but I don't think the super amateur level design is worth putting up with.

Might as well mention that I have tried Richter, Saturn Maria, and PS4 Maria, and I think the only one of those that does not make the game worse is Saturn Maria. The game was definitely built for Alucard and none of the rest of the characters really feel good to play as. Saturn Maria's kind of fun because she's broken as hell lol

[MommysBestGames]

In the new Castlevania trailer, I know they showed a level-map for just a moment.
But since this is made by the Rogue Prince of Persia team.. is this going to be like a rogue-like design you think, or metroidvania design?

[1KMS]

That's fair enough... I'll consider it, but I don't think the super amateur level design is worth putting up with.

I'd say it was more tentative than amateur. If it was released today, amateur would be accurate though. They correctly recognized that you have to nerf stage design to an extent when you can't define how many times a player will pass through a room, and those rooms have to work from multiple entrance points. Later Search Action would try to put more intricate design in the fringes of the map. I still prefer the Super Mario World / Rockman X approach.

[beer gas canister]

looking like the recent Shinboi Art of Vengeance: a 2d character action game, with segmented linear levels. could be wicked good fun.

[Sima Tuna]

That's fair enough... I'll consider it, but I don't think the super amateur level design is worth putting up with.

I'd say it was more tentative than amateur. If it was released today, amateur would be accurate though. They correctly recognized that you have to nerf stage design to an extent when you can't define how many times a player will pass through a room, and those rooms have to work from multiple entrance points. Later Search Action would try to put more intricate design in the fringes of the map. I still prefer the Super Mario World/Rockman X approach.

I mean, that shit is part of general metroidvania design ethos by this point. If you want to see an example of what happens when a metvania does NOT make the per-screen platforming easier to pass, yet still expects you to go back and forth through the same screens over and over, check out Astalon. I know some people love that game but I couldn't stand it. Every time I had to backtrack, I'd groan, because I knew I'd have to "solve" the previous 20 screens that I already passed, and I'd have to do it without losing health, so I could reach the next Point of Progression, and then FINALLY I could start to actually explore new shit. If I died at any point while backtracking, or if I lost too much health, I'd have to respawn and do the entire backtrack over again.

It was infuriating!

Castlevania 2 was already a proto-MV, as many know. Enemy positions were made less difficult to facilitate going back and forth through them. I'm not surprised many arcade gamers aren't a fan of this game design though, since it facilitates a lot of repetition and slow progression (metroidvanias in general do this too) which is more a hallmark of console and even... Gasp... Modern game design (think yellow paint AAA games.)

Having said that, I would defend to the death against anyone who thinks Aria of Sorrow's castle is, in any way, poorly designed or amateur. I know the conversation is about SotN but I want to draw a distinction between deliberate design choices that might not be someone's favorite, vs actual incompetency.

[Herr Schatten]

In my developer community over at smspower.org, someone is making a Master System port of Castlevania 1. He's a telented developer and clearly tries to get it right. I'm not familiar enough with the intricacies of the game to be able to judge how successful he is at reproducing the feel of the game, but maybe some of you expert players like to have a look?

A video of the current build is here. I think there is a download link for the demo, too.
https://youtu.be/QjKFJFGvDg0

[Steven]

That's fair enough... I'll consider it, but I don't think the super amateur level design is worth putting up with.

I'd say it was more tentative than amateur. If it was released today, amateur would be accurate though. They correctly recognized that you have to nerf stage design to an extent when you can't define how many times a player will pass through a room, and those rooms have to work from multiple entrance points. Later Search Action would try to put more intricate design in the fringes of the map. I still prefer the Super Mario World/Rockman X approach.

Metroid Fusion did something cool by changing enemies over the course of the game, or by having various rooms become damaged at certain points in the story, changing the room layouts. This is something that Dread mostly completely failed to do, but that's a completely separate topic, so...

In my developer community over at smspower.org, someone is making a Master System port of Castlevania 1. He's a telented developer and clearly tries to get it right. I'm not familiar enough with the intricacies of the game to be able to judge how successful he is at reproducing the feel of the game, but maybe some of you expert players like to have a look?

A video of the current build is here. I think there is a download link for the demo, too.
https://youtu.be/QjKFJFGvDg0

Ran it on my Mega Drive and it seems mostly pretty great. Obviously it's still incomplete and there are no bosses or larger enemies, most of the obstacles and all of the walls that can be destroyed are missing, and everything dies in one hit, but it's mostly good. There are a few oddities, like how you don't go into a crouch when landing from a long fall, so it doesn't play exactly accurately, but these are relatively minor.

It's really quite interesting to see the original sprite's walking animation have that many frames, and it's equally interesting to see the X68000 graphics (partially, as these are not finished yet) converted to this style and hardware capabilities. It's really good! I hope it gets FM audio too, not that I can play it with FM, but it would be cool.

[it290]

In my developer community over at smspower.org, someone is making a Master System port of Castlevania 1. He's a telented developer and clearly tries to get it right. I'm not familiar enough with the intricacies of the game to be able to judge how successful he is at reproducing the feel of the game, but maybe some of you expert players like to have a look?

A video of the current build is here. I think there is a download link for the demo, too.
https://youtu.be/QjKFJFGvDg0

Looks pretty good. The walk speed and jump arcs feel a bit off to me as does the overall game speed-it's overall too fast and the cross projectile speed is definitely too fast. I feel like Simon's sprite doesn't compress quite enough when he jumps, and there are some oddities with the movement. Not at all bad for an amateur port though and certainly better than other recent efforts I've seen like the Amiga AGA port.

[Steven]

Played Rondo today on the MiSTer. I don't remember the last time I played this. It's been a while. Took upper path because better music and because I was on a fresh save, so no stage 5' anyway. Died a few times, but the game showers you with score extends and the full heath at stage end extend is there too, so I still got the 1CC. I always die to Shaft or Shaft Ghost at least once, so my best is a one miss, and today I died to both of them.

Still really wish this game had a loop 2, and I'm not sure about how I feel about this game anymore. I think I like it less every time I play it, but I still like it. Maybe I've just played it too much and I know it too well. Might play Symphony (PS4 version) next because why not.

Also, if anyone has seen a hack that lets you play Castlevania III with the Akumajou Densetsu music, or that alters Akumajou Densetsu to play like CVIII, please let me know! I've still never really played CVIII because the Japanese music is way better. Yeah, I know that's a really dumb reason to not play a game, but that's my reason.

[Sumez]

I find it really hard to stay even "cautiously optimistic" based on this footage from the new game.
Honestly, it looks like trash, I can't sugarcoat that. Like a game that potentially *could* have been interesting, but which doesn't seem to display any sense of ambition at all. Seems like it's trying to sell on the Castlevania name alone.
It also looks like a 3D game engine forced on to a 2D plane, rather than a game actually designed to play as a 2D game. I'm sure people in here will recognize what I mean immediately by watching that trailer. It just doesn't look as satisfying to play to me, like everything is a bit "wishy-washy".

I can already play a vast number of indie Metroidvania’s that look like this or better.

This is exactly the thing. I predict that no one has any reason to ever even touch this game as long as they haven't played something like Afterimage and, I'm assuming, Silksong (still waiting for that one myself)

I mean, if that's your standard then you pretty much can't play any Nintendo metroidvanias either.

Both Metroid 1 and Super Metroid have elements to them that still set them apart from a majority of other games of the genre out there, with Super honestly still being considered a bit of an ideal for many good reasons. Metroidvania quality doesn't exist on a single axis (although a lot of them seem to think so), but if they did, SOTN would still be in the higher end of that one.

Not sure what other games you'd be thinking of in regards to "Nintendo metroidvanias". It's not exactly their primary export.

I want to draw a distinction between deliberate design choices that might not be someone's favorite, vs actual incompetency.

This could be a sticky'ed response to any of Steven's posts really

[Sumez]

In my developer community over at smspower.org, someone is making a Master System port of Castlevania 1. He's a telented developer and clearly tries to get it right. I'm not familiar enough with the intricacies of the game to be able to judge how successful he is at reproducing the feel of the game, but maybe some of you expert players like to have a look?

A video of the current build is here. I think there is a download link for the demo, too.
https://youtu.be/QjKFJFGvDg0

If they're trying to make a 1:1 port, why not replicate the mechanics of the original directly, step by step, from assembly code? A NES disassembly should be pretty easy to read.

[drauch]

Ah, this makes sense now. Didn't realize this wasn't developed by Konami. I initially jumped through the trailer to the action and was immediately offput by the style, which looks really low effort. Like that repeat animation at the end, like one of those Steam fuck-games. Maybe it'll look better when played, but this trailer makes it look like every environment is just shades of yellow, red, or green. Here's hoping the gameplay is good, at least...

[Sima Tuna]

I can already play a vast number of indie Metroidvania’s that look like this or better.

This is exactly the thing. I predict that no one has any reason to ever even touch this game as long as they haven't played something like Afterimage and, I'm assuming, Silksong (still waiting for that one myself)

I mean, if that's your standard then you pretty much can't play any Nintendo metroidvanias either.

Both Metroid 1 and Super Metroid have elements to them that still set them apart from a majority of other games of the genre out there, with Super honestly still being considered a bit of an ideal for many good reasons. Metroidvania quality doesn't exist on a single axis (although a lot of them seem to think so), but if they did, SOTN would still be in the higher end of that one.

Not sure what other games you'd be thinking of in regards to "Nintendo metroidvanias". It's not exactly their primary export.

I want to draw a distinction between deliberate design choices that might not be someone's favorite, vs actual incompetency.

This could be a sticky'ed response to any of Steven's posts really

I'm not trying to single out Stevens: I am guilty of this myself. It's easy to look at a design choice (or anything one doesn't gel with,) and think of it as bad because it wasn't enjoyable. There are some design decisions in games I do think are bad on a more than subjective level, such as when a (MODERN) beat em up creates a problem to sell you a solution. Problem: Shitload of guys with super armor, solution = spam the new parry/dodge move we gave you. But I fully admit there could be people out there who love that game design.

The part you quoted where it looked like I was shitting on nintendo metroidvanias was specifically in reference to visuals. I was arguing that you can't play Konami or Nintendo metroidvanias if the argument is that disappointing visuals compared to Silksong or Blasphemous (or some other modern indie MV) would constitute a deal-breaker for you. Because the majority of nintendo's metroidvania games don't look like Afterimage. Yes, this new Konami castlevania certainly does look like dogshit , but is it? The proof will be entirely in gameplay and design. Visuals don't hurt but there are some real bummy-ass looking metroidvanias out there that people love because the game design isn't bad.

https://www.myabandonware.com/game/iji-fpn

Gameplay wise, of course many of the Nintendo classics in the genre have elements of gameplay and design to them that outstrip a lot of indies. The older metroidvanias don't look bad either: I'm particularly a fan of the chunky Super Metroid and Zero Mission looks. But is it as immediately flashy and beautiful as Ori? Probably not.

The thing about SotN that a lot of people don't gel with, I think, is exactly that spectrum of design we see in metroidvanias. To wit: There are some which sit on the more "arcade action" side of the genre, and others that are more "action rpg." Since it's a portmanteau genre in the first place, it's kind of got a split focus. There are MVs with heavy emphasis on leveling and ones that have no leveling or leveled gear at all. Iga's castlevania games tend heavily towards the RPG side. I have seen enough arcade gamers shit on rpg-metroidvanias (MARK!) while praising Super Metroid (a more action oriented metroidvania) that I think it's quite a matter of taste. If you ask a more primarily RPG gamer (which is the side of the aisle I came from originally, into gaming,) then I think they'll probably prefer the more RPG games. Not always or universally but generally.

I would be interested in knowing how the arcade gamer types feel about the Ys games, because those are some real ball-busters when it comes to game difficulty and boss design. Not unlike shmups. But they also have leveling and some other jarpig elements.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Having the option of freely levelling-up to trivialize boss fights is anti-arcade ethos. Ys (I & II, at least) was known for succeeding at finding a middle ground - bosses require reaching them with a determined level which usually was quite evident, and whereas you could still level up beyond that and make them a bit easier, they were designed to be learned and to not let you pass otherwise. As a friend of mine would say, really good stuff which makes you think of Symphony of the Night as a toy more than as a game, but still, not actual arcade philosophy.

[Sumez]

I think that's spot on for the Ys games. But even then, in terms of gameplay, they aren't really that "great" - I just find them satisfying regardless. A lot of Ys 1 especially *is* grinding.

But SOTN is different for sure. Trying to compare it to arcade design ethos is a fallacy - it's not what it was ever meant to be. It's a toybox, yeah, and it's a fun toybox.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Yeah. It's a game from 1987 designed for hardware with no scrolling capabilties which rarely got action games, so they did what they could in that regard. Also, those were the Dragon Quest years, so grinding was second nature on computer games.

[Mortificator]

Damn. I already considered Dead Cells part of the series.

I think Dead Cells' pixel art looked better, though. @TFAT: I agree that Castlevania warrants a visual smorgasbord. Of course, with IP law, a trademark is nothing more than a license to deceive. There's a lot of influence from the Netflix animation here. The map looks like an indie Metroidvania's, rather than Symphony's and the GBA/DS games' ripped straight from Super Metroid. The whipping appears unsettlingly close to LoS's combat cross...

@Steven: The '86 original sure is among the best and coolest. It's weird, decades later, realizing that classicvania was only a 7 years and change phenomena. Who guessed Bloodlines would end up being the last hurrah? Everything since has been shovelware or remakes.

I still like the better search action 'vanias. For my own hang-up rant: don't make their protagonists Belmonts. Each heir to the vendetta is a warrior athlete who's trained their entire life laser focused on this one night of hell, and who already holds the strongest weapon to kill Dracula. They should not be getting level-ups or finding phat loot. This is something Igarashi understood imperfectly. Alucard was a great choice, Castle Dracula was his childhood home, so it makes sense that it's not innately hostile. Soma also has a very good reason it's a place of power for him. HoD? No, Juste no.

[BIL]

For my own hang-up rant: don't make their protagonists Belmonts. Each heir to the vendetta is a warrior athlete who's trained their entire life laser focused on this one night of hell, and who already holds the strongest weapon to kill Dracula. They should not be getting level-ups or finding phat loot. This is something Igarashi understood imperfectly. Alucard was a great choice, Castle Dracula was his childhood home, so it makes sense that it's not innately hostile. Soma also has a very good reason it's a place of power for him. HoD? No, Juste no.

Keen insight, superbly elaborated. <3

I wish Nocturne's little "Dracula X2" save icon (and the JP ver's awesome "D R A C U L A _ X" title card; overseas reads "Castlevania") had proven more prescient. Innovate crazy shit with the X series while refining tradition with the OGs. A long-past opportunity now, ofc. Stuff like Little Ralph and Taromaru was that gen's diehard scrolling action fix. (neither playing much like oldschool CV, of course; Ralph's a deliberate Rastan x Wonderboy homage, and Taro's a true one-off, excepting maybe Alisia Dragoon, though even that's a reach; but the utter devotion to nonstop hardcore R2RKMF is unmistakable)

OT, but I thought GNG Resurrection (or to weeb out, Kaettekita Makaimura - I love the escalation of those JP titles, culminating in "Papa-san is back from the store, kids! He even remembered the pint of milk!" ) united linear and ARPG concepts perfectly. The upgrades are nice, but you can't grind for them any more than you can grind for stage clears. In fact, grinding for them is a decidedly poor idea, given how tough it can be to nab them Bees and make it out of the stage alive. It's entirely more productive, and better for the health of controller-throwing types (stop it; get help! ) to pursue upgrades as methodically as you would any other classic arcade challenge.

So improving one's avatar goes hand in hand with improving one's skills. One of gaming's great masterly returns from Fujiwara and co, imho.

I held off for two years expecting it to be a disaster tbh >w> Was burnt a few too many times by 2010s "Look, kids! Legendary Genre Master is back ageen!")

How it often be after the Kicksharter cash is gone 2 hookers n blow 3;

*ring ring*
"Herro?"
"Look, man, I got these onigiri..."
"Fuck sake, Inafune-kun!! I terr you! Arready ate!"
"Man PLS!!! They all after me!!! I'll, I'll..."
"...herro?"
"I'll suck yo dick!"
"NANI"

Thankfully, Sumez and djmikehaggar and the rest of the HELL N BACK crew's expert guidance gave me the strongth to believe!