XRGB-3

[BuckoA51]

this should work if you use the passthrough VGA input on the right side of the back, not the processed VGA input on the left.

The PC In input? Thanks I'll try that

For your PCE problem: what do you see that you can't fix with the AFC level ? Can you provide a digicam shot ? You don't need a XSelect to fix the PCE's signal. I use a sync stripper instead (RGBs input, RGBHV 15khz output) and it works great.

I could but it wouldn't really show the problem, the whole picture shakes left and right from time to time even after doing the manual AFC adjustment (which worked on my old Hitachi).

Should everything else fail and you have the money to spare i would suggest you get yourself a Gefen VGA to DVI scaler plus.

For the most part I'm happy to let my TV up-scale from the XRGB-3's B1 output to 1080p and then use my DVDO Edge for everything else that isn't 240p (though I haven't actually got the EDGE yet, hope it's going to be ok). I'd be interested in this device if it gave limited PAL compatibility though (just so I can see the screen to start my games) and/or if it fixed the screen stuttering. Does it introduce much picture lag? Sorry for hogging this thread you guys have been super helpful I am very grateful.

[Fudoh]

Once you get the Edge, you can hook up the XRGB-3 to the Edge's VGA input. The picture gets a bit sharper (which I don't like), but otherwise that works quite good. Especially since the Edge's input is fully 50/60Hz compatible and you get proper 1080p50/60 output according to the input. The Edge has a negliable lag in gamemode (6-8ms).

[Konsolkongen]

For the most part I'm happy to let my TV up-scale from the XRGB-3's B1 output to 1080p and then use my DVDO Edge for everything else that isn't 240p (though I haven't actually got the EDGE yet, hope it's going to be ok). I'd be interested in this device if it gave limited PAL compatibility though (just so I can see the screen to start my games) and/or if it fixed the screen stuttering. Does it introduce much picture lag? Sorry for hogging this thread you guys have been super helpful I am very grateful.

According to Fudoh's site it's pretty much completely lag-free. And i haven't noticed anything

[Ganelon]

Ah, that's too bad. 6-8ms is unfortunately quite noticeable for games that require frame-dependent timing. Likely a good option for RPGs and modern games though.

[Fudoh]

games that require frame-dependent timing

If you mind half a frame of lag then you won't play on a digital display anyway, so nothing to worry about.

[BuckoA51]

Once you get the Edge, you can hook up the XRGB-3 to the Edge's VGA input. The picture gets a bit sharper (which I don't like), but otherwise that works quite good. Especially since the Edge's input is fully 50/60Hz compatible and you get proper 1080p50/60 output according to the input. The Edge has a negliable lag in gamemode (6-8ms).

OK here's what I was originally planning:-

Gamecube, Wii, PS2 and Xbox 1 -> 4 way component video routing switcher
PC Engine, SNES, Saturn Megadrive -> 4 way SCART routing switcher
PC,360,PS3 -> Directly into the DVDO Edge via HDMI

Component video routing switcher output 1 - XRGB3
Component video routing switcher output 2 - DVDO Edge
SCART routing switcher output 1 - XRGB3
SCART routing switcher output 2 - DVDO Edge

XRGB to Sony KDL40z4500 via HDMI (for B0) and VGA (for B1) (though B0 didn't work out)
DVDO Edge to Sony KDL40z4500 via HDMI

This way I figured I can handle all inputs (PAL,NTSC,240p/480i/p) on the best video processor. Feeding the XRGB into the Edge is an interesting idea, I didn't know the Edge had a VGA input, I guess you use the same input as the SCART uses or use a VGA to HDMI converter? Would feeding the XRGB-3 into the Gefen VGA to DVI scaler plus give better results (forgetting cost and the extravagance of having 3 scalers for the time being ) On Fudoh's website he says the XRGB upscales 480p better than the Edge, that must mean in B0 mode right? B1 wouldn't really do anything to 480p signals would it?

The path to the perfect setup sure is long and winding! I'm incredibly grateful to everyone here for putting up with my endless questions.

[kamiboy]

This place carries Super Famicom RGB cables, the official ones. It has a bunch of other rare stuff as well.

[trunk]

Feeding the XRGB into the Edge is an interesting idea, I didn't know the Edge had a VGA input, I guess you use the same input as the SCART uses or use a VGA to HDMI converter?

I use a dsub-15(vga cable) to 5 RCA cable (RGBHV) to hookup the xrgb-3 to the DVDO Edge. The Component 2 port on the edge does Component and RGBHV(automatically senses which one is being fed). For me this was the natural way to hook up the XRGB-3 to my TV because the built-in tv scaler is no good and the tv doesn't have a dsub-15(vga) port. I got the added bonus of more compatibility since the Edge signal agrees with the TV more than a simple vga2hdmi box does. For example I could not even use B0 mode on my TV before I put the edge in the middle.

I am very pleased with the results adding the DVDO Edge into my setup. Besides fixing my B1 scaling problem(my initial concern) it did the following for me:

-Removed optical switcher for audio + cables (I pipe the Edge to the receiver directly)
-Removed HDMI switcher(The edge has enough hdmi inputs)
-Makes the Wii look good on my HDTV(Muramasa the demon Blade looks sooooo nice when scaled through Edge 480p->720p)

-Provides reliable auto sensing signal switching as well as turn on/off and standby/awake mode

Since my setup sits in the living room I have tell you how valuable the auto sensing and standby modes are. My wife is not into AV tech and she just knows how to turn on the tv and dvd player and switch to the correct input. With the Edge I just have the dvd player on the top of the priority list so that it just comes up when she turns the player on. When she is done and I want to play games I just turn on what I want and the edge switches to it. When I am done the edge switches itself off. This means my wife does not need to have any knowledge of the Edge remote, just the usual tv and dvd player remote.

The path to the perfect setup sure is long and winding! I'm incredibly grateful to everyone here for putting up with my endless questions.

I agree completely.

P.S: Congratulations Konsolkongen on getting the chip switched out, I hope to be able to solder on such small pins cleanly one day.

But which one will i need? The AN15865AAVT or the AN15865AAVT-ND? What is the difference?

Did you ever find out what the difference was?

[BuckoA51]

If the Edge does a good job up-scaling the Wii/Cube etc at 480p and a much better job with 480i material I wonder if it's even worth me stressing over the XRGB-3's B0 mode at all. It would be nice to have the option to use it as it does come in useful (Saturn Virtua Fighter 2 springs to mind as something that doesn't work well in B1 mode) and for the PSP of course, but I wonder if it's really worth the hassle/cost of getting a Gefen? Unless the Gefen is likely to help with picture stability in general.

Shame the Edge doesn't have one more RGB analogue input, I need to route SCART directly to the Edge for my PAL games, I don't know how I could switch between SCART and VGA on that one input.

[Fudoh]

If you get an Edge, you don't need the Gefen. The Edge solves all your TV compatibility issues.

The Gefen's scaling engine is similar to the XRGB in B0 mode, while the Edge is optimized for video, not graphics. Hard to explain, but you'll see what I mean. Unless you don't want the razorsharp B0 upscaling on 240p games, you'll be fine with B1 -> Edge -> TV.

There hardly is a perfect way to display 480i games like VF2. They look stunning on the Edge with Gamemode turned off, but then your lag increases to 3 frames. They look messy on the Edge with Gamemode enabled. XRGB in B0 is unuseable (ugly), so B1 would be the only alternative, but you'll find yourself not wanting to use the B1 for 480i anymore, once you've great 480i deinterlacing on the Edge.

On Fudoh's website he says the XRGB upscales 480p better than the Edge

shoot me a PM where this is noted, I might have to clarify on this. I probably refered to my TV's upscaling (meaning 480p -> XRGB -> 480p -> TV) in comparison to the Edge.

[BuckoA51]

Unless you don't want the razorsharp B0 upscaling on 240p games, you'll be fine with B1 -> Edge -> TV.

Except I can't do that without a messy cable swap since I'm already going to be using that input for SCART.

There hardly is a perfect way to display 480i games like VF2. They look stunning on the Edge with Gamemode turned off, but then your lag increases to 3 frames. They look messy on the Edge with Gamemode enabled. XRGB in B0 is unuseable (ugly), so B1 would be the only alternative, but you'll find yourself not wanting to use the B1 for 480i anymore, once you've great 480i deinterlacing on the Edge.

Damn you Treasure for your lack of progressive scan in Gradius 5! It actually looked lovely on my old set too VF2 actually looked ok on my old set in B1, but Gradius 5 looked worse than going directly into the TV. I have to confess I didn't notice lag when I was playing it, either way. Maybe I can tolerate higher lag, guess we'll see.

I thought the Sony KDL-40Z4500 was supposed to be a fantastic gaming TV too!

[Xenogias]

Hey Fudoh can you give me the settings you used for your 240pRGBS-->Xselect4-->xrgb3-->480pRGBHV-->TV setup? using the HD15 output on the xselect of course. I still can't get the XRGB-3 to handle whatever the xselect is outputting on that HD15 output and transcoding it to component before inputting it to the XRGB3 makes it look like ass.

[SGGG2]

Damn you Treasure for your lack of progressive scan in Gradius 5! It actually looked lovely on my old set too VF2 actually looked ok on my old set in B1, but Gradius 5 looked worse than going directly into the TV. I have to confess I didn't notice lag when I was playing it, either way. Maybe I can tolerate higher lag, guess we'll see.

You can force Gradius V into 480p with HD Xploder or GS Mode Selector if you're running Free McBoot. It looks fantastic.

[Fudoh]

Except I can't do that without a messy cable swap since I'm already going to be using that input for SCART.

use one input for VGA from the XRGB and the other one for Scart and YUV. If you're using a scart switchbox anyway, you can route component signals right through it. Much easier than anything else.

Hey Fudoh can you give me the settings you used for your 240pRGBS-->Xselect4-->xrgb3-->480pRGBHV-->TV setup?

I'll try to get to it tomorrow....

[Konsolkongen]

P.S: Congratulations Konsolkongen on getting the chip switched out, I hope to be able to solder on such small pins cleanly one day.

But which one will i need? The AN15865AAVT or the AN15865AAVT-ND? What is the difference?

Did you ever find out what the difference was?

Thanks I ordered 2 of each and all four chips are the same. Must be a digikey item number or something

[trunk]

P.S: Congratulations Konsolkongen on getting the chip switched out, I hope to be able to solder on such small pins cleanly one day.

But which one will i need? The AN15865AAVT or the AN15865AAVT-ND? What is the difference?

Did you ever find out what the difference was?

Thanks I ordered 2 of each and all four chips are the same. Must be a digikey item number or something

That was a good idea. Besides even the cost of 4 chips and shipping pales compared to the price of buying another one.

Also:

There hardly is a perfect way to display 480i games like VF2. They look stunning on the Edge with Gamemode turned off, but then your lag increases to 3 frames. They look messy on the Edge with Gamemode enabled. XRGB in B0 is unuseable (ugly), so B1 would be the only alternative, but you'll find yourself not wanting to use the B1 for 480i anymore, once you've great 480i deinterlacing on the Edge.

Real 480i is a pain indeed, at least with Fake 480i you can use the Extron Emotia to restore 240p.

[Konsolkongen]

480i to 240p? What does that look like?

Is it done by displaying only the even or odd horizontal lines and cutting out half the resolution? Won't that create at least one frame of lag and have some influence on the framerate since it would only be able to use every other frame?

Or maybe that's complete nonsense and i'm just too tired to think straight?

[humbug]

hey just wondering if anyone would know enough about the xrgb-3 to answer a quick question:

if one wanted to know the general information about thier inputs, is there a way to have an on screen display or something like that?

i need to measure the resolution, frame rate n stuff like that through an RGBs (D in 2) connection.

thanks

Brendan

[Fudoh]

480i to 240p? What does that look like? Is it done by displaying only the even or odd horizontal lines and cutting out half the resolution? Won't that create at least one frame of lag and have some influence on the framerate since it would only be able to use every other frame?

480i to 240p is done by changing the vertical offset of every second field - nothing get's deleted or left out. The Extron RGB Interfaces can do this for CRTs (we've got an extra thread on this), but it won't work on the XRGB's input. But that's not what the Emotia does. The Emotia does 480p to 240p which is done by canceling every second line. The conversion is lagfree.

[brentsg]

Once you get the Edge, you can hook up the XRGB-3 to the Edge's VGA input. The picture gets a bit sharper (which I don't like), but otherwise that works quite good. Especially since the Edge's input is fully 50/60Hz compatible and you get proper 1080p50/60 output according to the input. The Edge has a negliable lag in gamemode (6-8ms).

I must be blind, but I don't see a VGA input on the Edge. Do you use some type of adapter?

[Fudoh]

VGA to 5x BNC/RCA. You use the bottom component connection plus the two sync inputs on the left side.

[BuckoA51]

My XRGB-3 experiences of late, summed up in cartoon form:-



(original cartoon here - http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/6/6/)

[brentsg]

VGA to 5x BNC/RCA. You use the bottom component connection plus the two sync inputs on the left side.

I am blind. I just noticed trunk's post above too. Thanks.

[trunk]

You can force Gradius V into 480p with HD Xploder or GS Mode Selector if you're running Free McBoot. It looks fantastic.

Thank you for the heads up on GS Mode selector. I got the program. I can now run Gradius V in 480p and it looks great!

From what I understand the quality is only as good as the source when it comes to GS Mode selector. I tried using it with beatmania (IIDX 13) and it did not look so nice. BUT it works great for GOD HAND!

I also give the program bonus points for keeping original aspect ratio of the game. I have a 16:9 HD CRT in another room that cannot change picture size in progressive mode so 480p 4:3 games get stretched. With GS Mode selector it forces 480P and keeps 4:3 itself so it doesn't look streched on the CRT.

[kamiboy]

Got those NIB first party Nintendo SNES RGB21 cables today.

Actual hardware on CRT monitor 1
Emulator 1

Actual hardware on CRT monitor 2
Emulator 2

I dont know what is wrong, but at this point the cables are out of the equation. Either the SNES is putting out a really funky RGB signal, or the XRGB2+ is having acute allergic reaction to the SNES. The crux of the problem is that the colours seem not to be aligned, I see a green outline protruding from the right side of everything, as if green is being painted a few pixels to the right of the other two colours which themselves may also be misaligned according to one another.

In short, those S-video cables cannot come soon enough.

[brentsg]

Let me know if you can't get the SNES RGB cables working. I'll take them if you decide not to keep them.

[Sargon]

I am in the process of getting an RGB mod installed on my NES, but the guy who is going to do the modding said he isn't sure how strong of a sync signal is required by the XRGB-3. I would be using the 15-pin RGB input. Can anyone give me advice on what I should tell him about the sync signal?

[kamiboy]

Let me know if you can't get the SNES RGB cables working. I'll take them if you decide not to keep them.

Nah, being as rare as they are I think I'll keep them, working or not they might come in handy in the future.

As for the problems I think I remember reading on some obscure place not long ago that the Japanese Super Famicom has a slightly different AV port pin configuration than the SNES of other regions. Has anyone had success with using the SHVC-010 RGB21 cables to connect a NTSC/U system to an XRGB?

[IDA]

As for the problems I think I remember reading on some obscure place not long ago that the Japanese Super Famicom has a slightly different AV port pin configuration than the SNES of other regions. Has anyone had success with using the SHVC-010 RGB21 cables to connect a NTSC/U system to an XRGB?

I have used an european Gamecube/XBOX/PS2 multisystem SCART without problem in my Super Famicom, so that should not be the problem.

[kamiboy]

I have used an european Gamecube/XBOX/PS2 multisystem SCART without problem in my Super Famicom, so that should not be the problem.

I used some very crudely made Gamecube Scart cables I bought off of eBay with this setup and that didn't work either. I wasn't even able to get a picture using that one.

Well, composite works, and I have good reason to expect S-video to do as well, while looking better too boot, so I think I'll go that route. I'll try those RGB cables again if I ever get a future XRGB product, the Flame Meister perhaps. But for now into my closet of useless expensive purchases they go.