Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[Ed Oscuro]

Neo AES with an NTSC crystal a no-go on D20, MVS is a go on D24W1E? (You're confusing me by mentioning D20F1U if you didn't test there, I think.)

[Monstermug]

MVS is definitely a go on the D24W range.

I took this video quite some time ago. The noise is from the noisy fish tank I have. As the unit display blacks really well, you can hardly notice the borders in low lighting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5ZgBtzLE74

I thought we were talking about the D24W and D32W which are pretty much identical as they both do 1000 lines at 16:9 and 4:3. Only difference I can tell apart from the more obvious larger screen size is the aperture grille pitch is 0.32-0.36mm on the D32W as apposed to the 0.25 - 0.28mm on the D24W.

The D20F1's however uses 900 tvl at 4:3 but only 700 tvl at 16:9 with a aperture grille pitch of 0.3mm.

I never owned a D20F1 so I can't comment on it's compatibility but as the D series goes, they are all modulated, and share the same input cards so I shouldn't think there would be any difference in compatibility between the three units. I could be wrong though.

With this is mind I would personally check you are using the correct cables and other pass through devices if your not getting sync.

[jedman]

I've never tried AES before but I didn't have a problem with MVS. That's assuming the D20F1U is anything like the D24W1E.

I must add that the picture hardly does it any justice. Colour and clarity is just staggering. I wouldn't attempt close up of 480p on any other device (which usually results in a blurr fess)

Yes I have a D20 and the picture quality on 480p is amazing, wii games look better on it than than do when running in 1080p through the dolphin emulator in my opinion, must be because of how high contrast it is along with the colour levels.

[Saturngamer81]

Will these work with a BVM? http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-PCS-BNC-Male ... 4d0aa5c4d6

or can some one recommend a link.

[Einzelherz]

Yes and there are much cheaper ones on amazon.

[BazookaBen]

So why do you need those again? Don't the outputs auto-terminate?

[Saturngamer81]

says in the manuel I have that if the outputs are not used then place 75ohms terminators on

[Ed Oscuro]

Yeah, good choice. Just try to find some cheaper than that eBay auction, they're at least double (maybe four times) as expensive as they should be.

[tacoguy64]

Here is how Neo Geo AES looks like on my BVM D20F1U

http://i.imgur.com/HpHsY0E.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/sageGnp.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Q1qCjro.jpg

All my other consoles are looking great. Though I still haven't really tried messing with the settings as much but the picture is the best i have ever seen for 240p games. Heck I even got my vga connection for my DC and those games are looking pretty damn good as well. I will take some more pictures later.

[Monstermug]

Are you using composite video or composite sync ? Ive noticed that sometimes composite sync can cause that on some devices.

If thats not the issue you should check if ur cables are properly grounded.

[kamiboy]

The bigger screen versions of that BVM model have an option in their menu, something with vcr, that fixes that problem.

[tacoguy64]

I am not sure what my SCART cable uses for sync, I am a noob when it comes to that stuff.

[bobrocks95]

I am not sure what my SCART cable uses for sync, I am a noob when it comes to that stuff.

If you have a multimeter you can look up the pin arrangement online and check.

[Monstermug]

The bigger screen version of that BVM model have an option in their menu, something with vcr, that fixes that problem.

You mean the int/ext sync button? I am assuming he has tried that already. I would definitely give that a go at least. Worth it.

If not then...



I believe pin 7 is the composite sync while pin 3 is composite video.

If it is wired for pin 3 which is the correct one I would open up the scart head just to double check there isn't a lm1881 sync stripper built in.

Then while it's already open, make sure it is grounded correctly. There should be continuity between pin 17, 13, 9, 5, and 21 (which is the outer metal shield) of your Scart connector. If not run a wire on all these pins and connect to ground on pin 4.

[kamiboy]

The bigger screen versions of that BVM model have an option in their menu, something with vcr, that fixes that problem.

You mean the int/ext sync button?

No, it is another option that fixes the exact same sync problem where the top of the screen is scrambled when displaying a PC Engine.

[tacoguy64]

I don't have a multi meter or any device to check for continuity. I do plan on getting one soon but for right now all i got is this picture

http://i.imgur.com/BPT6yfG.jpg

Just going by the diagram you posted, it seems like it's wired correctly. But I wont be able to be sure until I get a multi meter. And yes, I also tried the int/ext settings and int. made it worse.

[Monstermug]

I remember when I was like 8 and didn't even know multimeter existed I used a aa battery some wires and a torch light bulb as a continuity tester.

[KatKya]

Also, I recommend staying away from the "M" series of PVM and BVM unless you're ready to get your hands dirty and do a complete recap.
The caps in those monitors have been proved problematic.

I know I'll have to go through a complete recap (140 electrolitic caps, yay!) and it will take me quite a bit of time (and money!).

Exactly what type of problems do they cause exactly? I'm just wondering if I might have to start worrying or looking around inside my M2MDU for anything out of the ordinary. It's worked perfectly fine straight from the box since I got it 2 years ago, but still.


Not sure if this is the proper place to ask, but I'm interested in picking up a scan converter to use with it, and was wondering if $30 was a good deal for a VSC 200?

[bobrocks95]

So I've been looking for an upgrade for my EDTV plasma for quite a long time now, and I think I need to cast my net a little wider. I've only been looking at Panasonic models so far since that's what I know, but a cursory glance at ebay shows that some NEC plasmas may have also come out here in the states.

Did NEC make good plasmas? The specs certainly seem nice but I'm curious about general opinion.

Are there any other brands I should keep my eye on? I've never seen any Pioneers over here but I may have just missed them. Sony and Samsung may be options as well, but I don't know when they stopped making EDTV plasmas or how good their later models were.

A very niche topic I know, but any suggestions?

[LEGENOARYNINLIA]

I figured I'd ask this because it's niggling me.

I salvaged a late 80's Finlux 13" CRT (made in West-Germany, so manufactured before late 1990?) from a sure demise. After testing it out a bit with various consoles I figured I personally have no use for it, even though the size, design (surprisingly short tube for its age, handles on top for super easy TATEing) and stereo sound were pretty nice. The reason why I decided not to bother is because even though it accepts both PAL and NTSC through RGB, NTSC has ridiculous overscan.

So, can anyone shed light as to why such an old European CRT supports 60hz but stretches it ridiculously? I'm aware that it might just be because of its age, but I decided to ask anyway since I dragged that dirty old thing to my apartment. The image has no other major issues except some vertical barreling in the upper part of the screen.

Here's a shot from Mortal Kombat Trilogy on an N64 running in NTSC to illustrate the issue: http://i.imgur.com/yZbdZVd.jpg

For comparison, here's a capture from Moby Games: http://www.mobygames.com/game/n64/morta ... Id,150860/

[sixbynine]

I’ve got a quick question about the BVM-A series. Their brochure says that the lowest acceptable input format is 525i @ 59.94 (15.734 kHz), which sounds to me like 480i.
I guess my question is (there are probably some BVM-A owners here): Does the BVM-A’s accept 240p signals (e.g. SNES, some Saturn, some N64 etc.) without trouble?

[Fudoh]

Does the BVM-A’s accept 240p signals

yes, it does. Compatibility to off-spec refresh rates seems a little worse than on a classic BVMs though. Also remember that the analogue input board on the A series is optional and you might have a hard time finding one if it's not already included.

[sixbynine]

Hi Fudoh, thanks a lot! I've already heard about the difficulties of finding the analogue input board. Could you elaborate on the "little worse" compatability of the A series compared to, say, the D series? What exactly doesn't work?

[Einzelherz]

I figured I'd ask this because it's niggling me.

I salvaged a late 80's Finlux 13" CRT (made in West-Germany, so manufactured before late 1990?) from a sure demise. After testing it out a bit with various consoles I figured I personally have no use for it, even though the size, design (surprisingly short tube for its age, handles on top for super easy TATEing) and stereo sound were pretty nice. The reason why I decided not to bother is because even though it accepts both PAL and NTSC through RGB, NTSC has ridiculous overscan.

So, can anyone shed light as to why such an old European CRT supports 60hz but stretches it ridiculously? I'm aware that it might just be because of its age, but I decided to ask anyway since I dragged that dirty old thing to my apartment. The image has no other major issues except some vertical barreling in the upper part of the screen.

Here's a shot from Mortal Kombat Trilogy on an N64 running in NTSC to illustrate the issue: http://i.imgur.com/yZbdZVd.jpg

For comparison, here's a capture from Moby Games: http://www.mobygames.com/game/n64/morta ... Id,150860/

Could it just be that a 240p res is being stretched the way a 288p would be? I'm partly talking out my ass because I really don't know if this would be possible, but I'm picturing stretching a canvas past the edges of the screen.

[Fudoh]

Could it just be that a 240p res is being stretched the way a 288p would be?

it would be the other way around. There have been many RGB, but not really 60Hz-capable CRTs back in the day. On these 240p would show letterboxed.

[Xan]

Wouldn't it have been possible to adjust screen size so that 60 Hz is displayed full screen, assuming the controls on those TVs allowed for it? Would render 50 Hz useless assuming some overscan in the first place, of course.

[LEGENOARYNINLIA]

Wouldn't it have been possible to adjust screen size so that 60 Hz is displayed full screen, assuming the controls on those TVs allowed for it? Would render 50 Hz useless assuming some overscan in the first place, of course.

That's the plan but it's not certain that it's possible. We'll see. After hooking up my SNES to it and playing Axelay on it and hearing that thumping bass I've found new motivation to get something done about this telly.

I dug up a couple of games that run in a window on a SNES (in shitty composite) so I took some snapshots of one.

Final Fight 2 running in 50hz: http://i.imgur.com/3Apuy4c.jpg
Final Fight 2 running in 60hz: http://i.imgur.com/KEDDcu6.jpg

While the window fits within the screen even with the 60hz overscan Haggar looks elongated. Hopefully I'll find some pots inside the thing when I pop it open. Would be a shame to dump this thing to a PAL collector because the speakers are amazing and I really like the case design.

[Saturngamer81]

Just got my terminators in the post. I personally think they make a better difference. When first starting the monitor with them installed the contrast was reduced by a bit. So i turned it up and noticed I was able to get a higher contrast than before with less blooming, hence more prominent scanlines.

QUESTION to any one willing to spare a few minutes. One of my BVMs has 36000 hours. It has pretty poor geometry and linearity (i think its callled) Plus the convergence is perfect horizontally but un-even vertically on the left side of the screen. I heard that changing the capacitors on the Deflection board can help issues like this. IS this true? If so how would I go about changing them? Do I just remove the board and solder new ones or do I need to discharge something first? Safety first I always think. Can anyone recommend which to change(all of them preferably) and what ones to buy. I presume the deflection board is the one with the large heat sink near the PSU.

Thanks again.

[nio]

Here is how Neo Geo AES looks like on my BVM D20F1U

http://i.imgur.com/HpHsY0E.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/sageGnp.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Q1qCjro.jpg

All my other consoles are looking great. Though I still haven't really tried messing with the settings as much but the picture is the best i have ever seen for 240p games. Heck I even got my vga connection for my DC and those games are looking pretty damn good as well. I will take some more pictures later.

try to turn on VCR mode (search in the manual for it) i had the samw problem with the n64

[LEGENOARYNINLIA]

Small update to the overscan issue.

With extensive help from a friend the Finlux (which turned out to be a rebranded Philips) has now been tweaked and tuned. The difference is immediately noticeable. The barreling problem is completely gone, the picture is no longer shifted to the side, and the NTSC overscan is no longer a real problem with SNES/SFC or PS1 and PS2. The N64 still cuts off a lot of stuff, but I can live with that so I'll keep it. In the future I'll try a greater variety of systems and games in cases like this.

What I also learned is that it's good to be curious and not judge a CRT by its brand. This thing has an amazing picture.