Shmup stinkers

[stryc9]

Take Strikers 1945 off the list already.I mean this and not Soldner X? The fuck?
Oh, and if you ask me, Gates of Zendocon and Zarlor Mercenary.

[Skykid]

Take Strikers 1945 off the list already.I mean this and not Soldner X? The fuck?
Oh, and if you ask me, Gates of Zendocon and Zarlor Mercenary.

Aw man, these are great. Thanks stryc9.

Gates of Zendocon (Atari Lynx)
Zarlor Mercenary

As for Strikers 1945+ *headache*...
So many people have said it's a poor entry in a decent series, but I can't personally comment as I've not played this particular game and don't have much affection for Strikers in general.

However... from a personal perspective and having just watched the video through almost entirely, I'd have to agree I can't see what makes this a stinker folks. It's got some slow bullets early on and like emph said, it might be in a crappy resolution - but what makes it a real clanger?
It doesn't look particularly broken, some of the boss bullet patterns are nice and there's plenty going on. It appears to be pretty fluid as well...

The list is meant to be for stuff that's bordering on broken or just mind numbingly dull or horrible. This doesn't look like it's quite there.
Anyone else got any thoughts on it, cos this is one particular game that's really dividing opinion. Just keep in mind 'stinker' is the important word in your assessment, and that would be something that resembles this:

Sol Divide (Arc/Saturn/PS2)

Others I'm a little unsure about:

EDF (is this really that bad? Looks average perhaps, but playable.)
Blast Wind - I've just taken this off. It looks easy, but shit, I've see worse shmups than this.

[stryc9]

Re: Strikers 1945 Plus - Yes it pales against the other Strikers games, but considering the hardware - and that is a consideration - it is a great approximation of the original games. It ain't no stinker.
And before the backlash begins regarding the Lynx entries, I had both of these steaming piles when I was a kid. Of couse, money being tight back then I played both of them a hell of a lot, and thought the scaling effects were really cool. It was a 16 bit colour handheld afterall. But even back then I knew they were kinda pants - I was an arcade player even back then and I already knew what a good Shmup was! And playing them today in 2011 they are no better. In fact both appear to be a lot worse.

[Drum]

Gates of Zendocon is awesome :(

[Skykid]

Gates of Zendocon is awesome

Here we go again.

[Rob]

Just keep in mind 'stinker' is the important word in your assessment, and that would be something that resembles this:

Sol Divide (Arc/Saturn/PS2)

The person who posted this video likes the game. The people commenting on the video like the game. Sol Divide is hideous and well below average for Psikyo, but it's not bad. It's more like 16-bit console shooters than arcade shooters from the late 90s, which might be the hang-up (or it's just the Mortal Kombat gfx).

[Skykid]

Just keep in mind 'stinker' is the important word in your assessment, and that would be something that resembles this:

Sol Divide (Arc/Saturn/PS2)

The person who posted this video likes the game. The people commenting on the video like the game. Sol Divide is hideous and well below average for Psikyo, but it's not bad. It's more like 16-bit console shooters than arcade shooters from the late 90s, which might be the hang-up (or it's just the Mortal Kombat gfx).

Ugh, I really hate Sol Divide man. It's a pretty horrible game.

The concept is fine and I can see potential in the fantasy role-playing/shmup hybrid - but it just doesn't hang together right.

[Drum]

Gates of Zendocon is awesome :(

Here we go again. :)

No really. It's almost like a sequel to 4-D Warriors, and that is basically the best shooter of all time.

[dunpeal2064]

EDF (is this really that bad? Looks average perhaps, but playable.)
.

It is playable. It even has 2p. However, those are its only 2 solid points. It came out in 1995, so using that to compare it to others of its time, its just awful. Really bad sound effects, ugly background, and the pixels "twitch" about randomly due to bad programming.

[nZero]

EDF (is this really that bad? Looks average perhaps, but playable.)
.

It is playable. It even has 2p. However, those are its only 2 solid points. It came out in 1995, so using that to compare it to others of its time, its just awful. Really bad sound effects, ugly background, and the pixels "twitch" about randomly due to bad programming.

Are we talking about the Jaleco horizontal shooter? Came out in 1991 not 1995, even got a three-quarter assed SNES port. Boring but not unplayably terrible like a lot of the games in the list. In the vein of horis that came out around that time and got SNES ports, I'd like to nominate BlazeOn for the list.

[TVG]

Yeah EDF is bland and boring but not awful.

Plus as far as I know it's the only game to feature homing cheerios as a weapon, IIRC when you power up in stage 2. Unfortunately in stage 3 the weapon turns into blue golden grahams so of course you stop playing.

[louisg]

Just keep in mind 'stinker' is the important word in your assessment, and that would be something that resembles this:

Sol Divide (Arc/Saturn/PS2)

The person who posted this video likes the game. The people commenting on the video like the game. Sol Divide is hideous and well below average for Psikyo, but it's not bad. It's more like 16-bit console shooters than arcade shooters from the late 90s, which might be the hang-up (or it's just the Mortal Kombat gfx).

I have to admit I didn't give it a chance because of the horribly cheesy graphics .. I mean.. holy cow! I'd much rather be playing Sengoku Blade

[Herr Schatten]

I actually don't really want to talk about Submarine Attack any more, but from your comments I feel I haven't made myself clear enough.

- It has next to no level design

It has good color and graphics for the era and system. Seen much worse from that system.

That's not what I meant. The game does look pretty nice. When I'm talking about level design, I mean the gameplay. The levels are just not structured in any meaningful way, the enemies just seem to have been put in randomly by the developers. It definitely crosses the line into 'awful' territory by stage 4, when enemies start materializing right ontop of you.

- nothing really happens for quite long stretches of time

Looks pretty busy to me. Not Crazy busy, but not a lot of empty time.

My fault, I didn't describe the problem precisely enough. Yes, there are plenty of enemies on screen, but they don't pose a threat and/or are instantly destroyed. There's actually little incentive to ever move your ship, so the game looks busy, but it feels like there's nothing happening nonetheless.

I posted more in-depth impressions here.

But not ever Shmup needs to be as tough as nails either. I get the idea we may not have much we agree on. I read your review, and from that I may download it and give it a spin. I am a old school casual gamer, and I don't need games to murder me. Sometimes enjoyment comes from the old school graphics and music and a steady flow of enemies, which is what that game does seem to have. I feel your being nicky-picky here.

I actually do agree with you on that point. A game does not have to be hard to be enjoyable. Remember that earlier in this thread I defended Star Parodier, which is an awesome game despite being very easy. Submarine Attack, however, doesn't have these qualities.

[mjclark]

Talking of submarines, what about Ocean Commander?
On PC, PS2, NDS and now Wii it is truly shit.

But then Critical Depth and In The Hunt can reassure us that not all submarines make for poor shmupping

[dunpeal2064]

EDF (is this really that bad? Looks average perhaps, but playable.)
.

It is playable. It even has 2p. However, those are its only 2 solid points. It came out in 1995, so using that to compare it to others of its time, its just awful. Really bad sound effects, ugly background, and the pixels "twitch" about randomly due to bad programming.

Are we talking about the Jaleco horizontal shooter? Came out in 1991 not 1995, even got a three-quarter assed SNES port. Boring but not unplayably terrible like a lot of the games in the list. In the vein of horis that came out around that time and got SNES ports, I'd like to nominate BlazeOn for the list.

Is wikipedia wrong? It says 1995, as does every other source I can find

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Defense

If I am wrong, then apologies. But if not, then comparing it to other 1995 shooters, I still hold it as a stinker.

However, I do agree there are worse, but to me that doesn't take it out of the stinker catagory

[nZero]

Is wikipedia wrong? It says 1995, as does every other source I can find

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Defense

If I am wrong, then apologies. But if not, then comparing it to other 1995 shooters, I still hold it as a stinker.

However, I do agree there are worse, but to me that doesn't take it out of the stinker catagory

Okay, we're talking about different games. The one in the OP is Jaleco's Earth Defense Force (1991 Arcade).

Edit - Hm, yeah, The Earth Defend does look pretty lame even for an unlicensed Megadrive game.

[Skykid]

BlazeOn

You want to add this because it's bad? Or were you just mentioning it cos it's a hori snes shmup?

Video looks a little slow, but not terrible:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxMw7wk3BFk

Okay, we're talking about different games. The one in the OP is Jaleco's Earth Defense Force (1991 Arcade).

Whoops, that's my bad. I didn't realise it was the wrong game (it was 'Earth Defense' originally cited.) I'll fix it and replace with the proper vid. Looks like the Jaleco one is safe.

[stryc9]

So Gates of Zendocon. Exactly what is good about it after you take into account the stupid level design, gluggy controls and ridiculous enemy graphics? I won't mention the poor music cos just about every Lynx game sucked when it came to tunes. It was a poor man's shmup even back then, I mean fuck, Gradius and R-Type already existed. The only thing it had going for it was that it was a shooter for your Atari Lynx. Let's face it; they were in short supply...
Seriously Drum try playing it again today. I play heaps of shooters from that era and they still hold up, but this, this just sucks.
Funny how no ones tried defending Zarlor Mercenary yet. It had a few things right (like good graphics) and it was tough as leather, but MAN your shots are slow. What is it with Euroshmups and slow shots? Even Soldner X2 has slow shots. I don't get it.

[Skykid]

doctorx0079 kindly PM'd me this morning with a youtube vid for Silpheed on the CoCo2, so that's now added to the list. I don't really know what's going on in that vid, the trajectory appears to converge to the middle of the screen, including your bullets.

Just to save you having to go to the front page, this is the list so far. Would be nice to hear any final disagreements to any of these so I can trim it down to the essential stinkers, and if anyone can find the missing vids, that would be cool too:

Ghost Pilots
X-Plan
D-Force
Gulf War 2
Sky Smasher
B-Wings
Twin Eagle 2
MX5000
Silpheed (CoCo 2)
Mission Craft
Magic girl
arbalester (Arcade)
Planet Joker
Trevor McFur in the Crescent Galaxy
Fuzzy Shooting
Blue Hawk
Spectrum 2000 (PC)
Stagger 1
Varia Metal
Xenon 2 (Megadrive version)
Pollux (Arcade)
Rock On
Terra Cresta 3D
Philosoma (PSX)
Gaia Seed (PSX)
Sol Divide (Arc/Saturn/PS2)
Strike Gunner S.T.G. (Snes)
Divine Sealing
Thunder Spirits (Snes Thunder Force)
Broken Thunder
Cho Aniki (PCE)
Cho Aniki (Saturn)
Steam Hearts (PCE/Saturn)
Curse
X-Dazedly Ray (Megadrive - commentary is terrible)
D-Return (x68000)
The Earth Defend/Earth Defense (MD)
Alien Gate (CDi)
Family Games I (CDi)
Asuka & Asuka
Shin Chuuka Taisen
Strike Force Hydra
Twin Eagle
Zing Zing Zip
Bio-Ship Paladin (Megadrive/Genesis ver.)
Retro Force
Eight Forces
Super Mate Mate Laser
Prötothea
Deep Blue (PCE)
Galg (Famicom)
1942 Joint Strike
Honey in the Sky
Cyber Core
Psychic Storm
Air Raid (Atari 2600)
Razor2 Hidden Skies
Bomber Raid (Master System)
Resurrection of Heaven's Liquor
Captain Tomaday (with annoying commentary) Neo Geo
Legion
Espial
Bermuda Triangle (SNK) Arcade
Flying Tiger (Dooyong) Arcade
Gulf Storm (Media Shoji) Arcade
R-Shark (Dooyong) Arcade
The Last Day (Dooyong) Arcade
Darius+ (The Edge)
Blast Works: Build and Destroy (Wii)
Submarine Attack (SMS)
Strikers 1945 Plus (Neo Geo)
Gates of Zendocon (Atari Lynx)
Zarlor Mercenary
Ocean Commander (Wii)

[EinhanderZwei]

Why, nobody to defend Philosoma? It's the best PS1 shooter after Einhander, and that's what it gets?

[Skykid]

Why, nobody to defend Philosoma? It's the best PS1 shooter after Einhander, and that's what it gets?

My ears!

[Drum]

So Gates of Zendocon. Exactly what is good about it after you take into account the stupid level design, gluggy controls and ridiculous enemy graphics? I won't mention the poor music cos just about every Lynx game sucked when it came to tunes. It was a poor man's shmup even back then, I mean fuck, Gradius and R-Type already existed. The only thing it had going for it was that it was a shooter for your Atari Lynx. Let's face it; they were in short supply...
Seriously Drum try playing it again today. I play heaps of shooters from that era and they still hold up, but this, this just sucks.
Funny how no ones tried defending Zarlor Mercenary yet. It had a few things right (like good graphics) and it was tough as leather, but MAN your shots are slow. What is it with Euroshmups and slow shots? Even Soldner X2 has slow shots. I don't get it.

I played Gates of Zendocon about half a year ago. What a great game! Pretty depressing that you're dragging it through the mud on the very same page that somebody is putting forward In the Hunt as an example of a good shooter. Troubling.

[Heartwork]

Is 1942 Joint Strike really that bad? I haven't played it, but the videos and such make it look fairly interesting.

[Vyxx]

Why, nobody to defend Philosoma? It's the best PS1 shooter after Einhander, and that's what it gets?

We desperately need a a *facepalm* smiley

[Skykid]

Is 1942 Joint Strike really that bad? I haven't played it, but the videos and such make it look fairly interesting.

Hahh, this is a difficult one to place. I played it quite a bit when it first came out. It's got a moderate challenge but only toward the end of the game. For the most part it's slow and pretty dull (to match the sepia colour palette.) It has a scoring system based on proximity, so point blanking things is the hook - but despite this it just doesn't ever feel like it gets underway. It's a bit of a yawnfest and very easy to walk away from and forget about.

Is that stinker material? You decide.

[EinhanderZwei]

Why, nobody to defend Philosoma? It's the best PS1 shooter after Einhander, and that's what it gets?

We desperately need a a *facepalm* smiley

Facepalm would be just if Philosoma had ugly graphics, boring gameplay and stupid story... and if oh-so-almighty Cave ripped off its constant camera switches and made it better. Until then, my point won't change

[Kollision]

Why, nobody to defend Philosoma? It's the best PS1 shooter after Einhander, and that's what it gets?

Let me join you then.
I didn't really play Philosoma to the fullest, but I thought it was pretty decent. The orientation changes were cool, and the atmosphere was great.
People might not like it, but it evidently doen't belong to the "stinker" category.

[Herr Schatten]

somebody is putting forward In the Hunt as an example of a good shooter. Troubling.

Indeed.

[EinhanderZwei]

somebody is putting forward In the Hunt as an example of a good shooter. Troubling.

Indeed.

It's a fun and beautiful game, but it's more like Metal-Slug--in-the-vehicle-all-the-time (obviously), so not a pure 100% ture shmup

[worstplayer]

Nobody mentioned Fire Hawk (the Korean arcade one, not the NES one) yet? Good lord that game sucks. I could write a few reasons why, but you wouldn't believe me anyway, you really have to play it to believe something so shitty can even exist. It's in MAME, so try it youself.

EDIT: a short gameplay video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apPmYzCo8Xw
And no, those deaths aren't edited, hit detection in this game is really that bad.