TFIV Rebirth dev thread

[BPzeBanshee]

If the previous project was anything to go by wondersonic uses precise collision checking for the asteroids, which as they're spinning I think could be a bad idea as that introduces random variables (a hellish issue that I encountered when implementing input replays for GMOSSE, and still haven't eradicated from two of the ships). That might explain the 'odd' collision with the rocks, though in my brief test they were a lot better than before (where the asteroids appear instantly while the intro TFIII ending music was playing - if that's happening for you Ixranin clear the cache to update).

I don't understand what you mean by "unparallel".

This is what I was referring to. As you can see, he has vertically-oriented 2D sprites on the sides there that if properly edited could be used for a vertical TF game, however there is more frames of it barrel rolling to the left than to the right, thus "unparallel" animation so to speak. As far as I can tell you don't have this issue in-game, but I was wondering how well your models would turn out if you did something similar.

As for the interia, Ixranin hit it right on the mark. The speed of anything in a successful shmup should be completely static at all times - this got covered as much before. The engine code for this thing is beyond me but if you're using some kind of motion setting command to do the movement that's probably what's introducing it (assuming you haven't deliberately put in the inertia and have no idea where it's coming from), and relative adding/subtracting of the ships absolute x and y values would fix it I would think. I'm just speculating as to what the problem could be here.

Glad to see you're back and actively working on this anyhow. The light at the end of the tunnel is far but I'm confident that you'll get there providing you stick to it and believe in your power.

[wondersonic]

Firstly, at some stage, the inertia has to go.

Sure, but let me know your impression in more details. Why do you say so? (because the configuration set for controls doesn't seem to allow inertia).

It did feel like the ship had some acceleration/deceleration, which made it tough to squeeze between asteroids as it would take a moment to speed up.

The collision detection seems a little off too. Sometimes I could fly through parts of the asteroids unharmed, and other times so much as scratching them would count as a collision. Hard to tell with the asteroids' unpredictable spinning though.

Ok, the inertia completely disappeared (my mistake)!

Regarding collisions, I'm reviewing it again (corrected right now).

Current web version is up to date (although collision events are not yet handled).

[wondersonic]

If the previous project was anything to go by wondersonic uses precise collision checking for the asteroids, which as they're spinning I think could be a bad idea as that introduces random variables (a hellish issue that I encountered when implementing input replays for GMOSSE, and still haven't eradicated from two of the ships). That might explain the 'odd' collision with the rocks, though in my brief test they were a lot better than before (where the asteroids appear instantly while the intro TFIII ending music was playing - if that's happening for you Ixranin clear the cache to update).

Indeed, I previously used "Pixel Perfect Collision Detection" but this is a heavy process for which every collidable objects had to be drawn twice because of occlusion queries involved.

I don't understand what you mean by "unparallel".

This is what I was referring to. As you can see, he has vertically-oriented 2D sprites on the sides there that if properly edited could be used for a vertical TF game, however there is more frames of it barrel rolling to the left than to the right, thus "unparallel" animation so to speak. As far as I can tell you don't have this issue in-game, but I was wondering how well your models would turn out if you did something similar.

In theory there are no issues for me using pure 3D models.

As for the interia, Ixranin hit it right on the mark. The speed of anything in a successful shmup should be completely static at all times - this got covered as much before. The engine code for this thing is beyond me but if you're using some kind of motion setting command to do the movement that's probably what's introducing it (assuming you haven't deliberately put in the inertia and have no idea where it's coming from), and relative adding/subtracting of the ships absolute x and y values would fix it I would think. I'm just speculating as to what the problem could be here.

As mentioned above, it was a setting that I forgot to modify (totally agree for inertia and shmup: nothing to do together).

Glad to see you're back and actively working on this anyhow. The light at the end of the tunnel is far but I'm confident that you'll get there providing you stick to it and believe in your power.

[wondersonic]

Web version 0.0.3 available!

I hope, this'll start to please you

[BPzeBanshee]

That's a lot of rocks there. Do they really need to collide with eachother though (I imagine this could unnecessarily hampen performance)?

[wondersonic]

That's a lot of rocks there. Do they really need to collide with eachother though (I imagine this could unnecessarily hampen performance)?

Yes an asteroid field has a lot of rocks

About performance, it's a matter of tricks. So far, no real problem since garbage collection is properly handled and only few rocks collisions are performed!

[wondersonic]

By the way, Web version 0.0.5 is out!

Done:
- collisions detection
- weapon management
- score
- lifes
- performance optimization
- planet
- asteroids

To do:
- final scene (pirats' asteroid)
- level intro
- surprise

[wondersonic]

And a screenshot:



Note that the asteroids are managed by Physic laws

[BPzeBanshee]

We're still going to see a background picture change some time soon right?

Other than that it looks like it's shaping up very nicely with graphics almost just like TF VI.

[wondersonic]

We're still going to see a background picture change some time soon right?

Done just for you

(honestly, I didn't found the previous none moving background disturbing)

Other than that it looks like it's shaping up very nicely with graphics almost just like TF VI.

Thanks, that was the goal!

Also corrected minor bugs for this new 0.0.7 version.

[wondersonic]

Win32 version also available!

And a video!

[BPzeBanshee]

My only concern with the background is the brightness, which in this version I've tried it looks more brighter thanks to some kind of light engine you've got. Maybe get a second opinion before you do anything radical.

The Win32 version runs nicely on my PC just as the Web version does. Quite nice too, especially considering all the fancy 3D real-life physics.

Is there an end to the stage yet or just the coloured asteroids?

[wondersonic]

No end currently. But it's coming soon.

[mjclark]

Other than that it looks like it's shaping up very nicely with graphics almost just like TF VI.

Late to the party as usual but the idea of bumped up TFIV gameplay with TFVI graphics sounds like perfection...looking forward to giving this a try later

[BPzeBanshee]

Other than that it looks like it's shaping up very nicely with graphics almost just like TF VI.

Late to the party as usual but the idea of bumped up TFIV gameplay with TFVI graphics sounds like perfection...looking forward to giving this a try later

You are late indeed, especially considering I told you about this a while ago.

Have a go at the older version which had two stages implemented to get an idea of what wondersonic is paving new ground on with the whole TF VI graphics and new engine thing. Stage 2 is quite awesome.......if not a tad bit hard.

Speaking of Stage 2, are we going to be getting ridiculously fast corridor movement like before or are we going to have something slightly more sane and TF style?

[wondersonic]

Speaking of Stage 2, are we going to be getting ridiculously fast corridor movement like before or are we going to have something slightly more sane and TF style?

We'll see I didn't think (too much) about it yet! But the background will be better. According to the speed of the corridor part, I find it necessary for 2 reasons:
- you are in a hurry and need to leave these pirats behind you as fast as possible
- the music of this part just makes a low speed impossible

But I'm not there right now.

[BPzeBanshee]

Well, I am jumping ahead just a little bit. I just don't see the need for it to be as fast as it was under the previous engine (which was ridiculous) but obviously we shouldn't be having it at a crawl either.

I'm thinking TF II's fourth stage which had some pretty fast scrolling going on with wall-like things crunching down, but with warning signs added ala TF V to give some level of predictability. If you feel that may make things too easy use a variety of doortypes: one that closes upwards, downwards, flips, and doublecloses (it's a pirate asteroid, not a Galaxy Federation mass assembly model where everything is the same).

[wondersonic]

Well, I am jumping ahead just a little bit. I just don't see the need for it to be as fast as it was under the previous engine (which was ridiculous) but obviously we shouldn't be having it at a crawl either.

I'm thinking TF II's fourth stage which had some pretty fast scrolling going on with wall-like things crunching down, but with warning signs added ala TF V to give some level of predictability. If you feel that may make things too easy use a variety of doortypes: one that closes upwards, downwards, flips, and doublecloses (it's a pirate asteroid, not a Galaxy Federation mass assembly model where everything is the same).

No problem, warning signs were already there And I note it: not too fast

[wondersonic]

BTW, web version 0.0.8 is out!

First level finished (except for the scoring system)!

[wondersonic]

Oh and a screenshot from my Unity scene at runtime (for those interested):



We can see the different layers and some colliders in green wireframe.

[wondersonic]

And now... let's start this second level

[BPzeBanshee]

I got to the asteroid, went upwards, then couldn't go downwards and Game Over'd because I was stuck in a corner.

Also, damn some of those asteroids go ridiculously fast. I didn't realise I was playing Raiden Fighters JET Rebirth.

As a suggestion to the asteroid (assuming it still pulls you in at the lower part), maybe move it's immediate position so that the bit where it pulls you in is the direct center of the playing field so only the top area is taken up by the asteroid, telling the player to move down which then results in capture. Also you seem to have the asteroids get deleted upon spawn when the large asteroid appears but they appear in the playing field for a few seconds before they do as if the spawning position not far enough out of the screen.

You say the scoring system for the coloured asteroids isn't finished yet, just to clarify?

One other question: how are you doing the voices now? They're clearly very different from the ones you had last time around, and while they're very clear maybe add a bit of tinniness to keep the feel.

[wondersonic]

I got to the asteroid, went upwards, then couldn't go downwards and Game Over'd because I was stuck in a corner.

Same behaviour as the first version. You have to learn that when playing But couldn't you move downward? (at the price of loosing only one life?).

Also, damn some of those asteroids go ridiculously fast. I didn't realise I was playing Raiden Fighters JET Rebirth.

If they go fast, that's because of forces applied because of collisions

As a suggestion to the asteroid (assuming it still pulls you in at the lower part), maybe move it's immediate position so that the bit where it pulls you in is the direct center of the playing field so only the top area is taken up by the asteroid, telling the player to move down which then results in capture.

It could be done but I guess, I prefer to work on other levels right now...

Also you seem to have the asteroids get deleted upon spawn when the large asteroid appears but they appear in the playing field for a few seconds before they do as if the spawning position not far enough out of the screen.

Indeed, I remarked this also, I'll work on this point (this is a collider related bug from my point of view).

You say the scoring system for the coloured asteroids isn't finished yet, just to clarify?

Chaining not implemented yet

One other question: how are you doing the voices now? They're clearly very different from the ones you had last time around, and while they're very clear maybe add a bit of tinniness to keep the feel.

These are sampled voices "tinniness"?

[BPzeBanshee]

I got to the asteroid, went upwards, then couldn't go downwards and Game Over'd because I was stuck in a corner.

Same behaviour as the first version. You have to learn that when playing But couldn't you move downward? (at the price of loosing only one life?).

I went downwards when it first appeared and it did nothing so I went upwards at which point it locked me into the corner. The price of losing one life was the Game Over for me on that run thanks to radically fast rocks hitting me. Memorisation is used in places in previous Thunder Force games but this kind of punishment this early (first stage, come on) is just plain stupid.

One other question: how are you doing the voices now? They're clearly very different from the ones you had last time around, and while they're very clear maybe add a bit of tinniness to keep the feel.

These are sampled voices "tinniness"?

Well I was thinking of some kind of filter effect to give it a more computerised voice like how it sounded in TF IV. Even Broken Thunder had a bit of cool computerisation in its voices (not that you could hear them very well but that's another issue). I could give it a go through some stuff that I have myself if you were able to provide the files (I have no bloody idea where everything is being stored on the computer with this new engine).

[wondersonic]

I got to the asteroid, went upwards, then couldn't go downwards and Game Over'd because I was stuck in a corner.

Same behaviour as the first version. You have to learn that when playing But couldn't you move downward? (at the price of loosing only one life?).

I went downwards when it first appeared and it did nothing so I went upwards at which point it locked me into the corner. The price of losing one life was the Game Over for me on that run thanks to radically fast rocks hitting me. Memorisation is used in places in previous Thunder Force games but this kind of punishment this early (first stage, come on) is just plain stupid.

I understand your point and you are right for this first level. The thing is because of the bug regarding asteroids disappearing randomly, I had to move the asteroid emiter upward thus emiting asteroids on the upper part of the level thus forcing you to go downward... happy?

One other question: how are you doing the voices now? They're clearly very different from the ones you had last time around, and while they're very clear maybe add a bit of tinniness to keep the feel.

These are sampled voices "tinniness"?

Well I was thinking of some kind of filter effect to give it a more computerised voice like how it sounded in TF IV. Even Broken Thunder had a bit of cool computerisation in its voices (not that you could hear them very well but that's another issue). I could give it a go through some stuff that I have myself if you were able to provide the files (I have no bloody idea where everything is being stored on the computer with this new engine).

Ok some chorus added. You'll hear that in the next release And for your information the assets are well packaged now (not by me).

[wondersonic]

Second level WIP:

[wondersonic]

And web version 0.0.9 available (see first post for URL).

[wondersonic]

Web version 0.0.10 is out

[BPzeBanshee]

Yay I'm in the credits!

EDIT: beat the storms. Let me know what you think of those sounds.

[wondersonic]

And a new video.