6th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time! - Discussion thread

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:49 pm

Hey, this is serious business. Don't mock it!

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:32 pm

Ceph wrote:Well, if you visit a foreign country you don't get to vote there either.

Ceph doing his best to reinforce the elitist stereotype here

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:44 pm

Ceph wrote:Well, if you visit a foreign country you don't get to vote there either.

One problem though. This isn't a foreign country, it's a little website. Not only that, it's a fan site... run by fans, for fans. Seems kind of dumb to lock out fans on a fan site because they're new. If they follow the rules of the current list, then I see no reason for them to be turned away.

DJ Incompetent · Post by **DJ Incompetent** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:05 pm

The Coop wrote:
Hibou wrote:
Ceph wrote:
Sorry if this sounds elitist, but I think new users who haven't been members for at least a couple of months should not be allowed to vote.

Is it ?

Members of a forum are (like me) people who seek information. Or, if you prefer, people who don't know the subject. And people with a huge number of posts are... what? One may think they are people who need information all the time because they still don't know the subject after years.

You see, everything can be seen from differents points of vue... I (but perhaps that's just me) would be a little more carefull before making so definitive statements.

Another point of view, is that people such as myself, have been playing shmups for many years before signing up here. I know I'd find it rather annoying if my join date (or post count) was somehow being used as a means to imply that I knew little about the subject matter of this site. I'd find it even more annoying if that false presumption was preventing me from being able to take part in things here.

I think anybody who will take the time to name-drop 25 titles and can follow bracket formatting is a pretty good indicator they're experience enough. It's not exactly easy or convenient to do. And don't tell me you're honestly scared of a full bandwagon copy-paste entry.

It would require a large group of griefers with no taste to meaningfully impact the vote.

Sonic R · Post by **Sonic R** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:29 am

Ceph wrote:Hey, this is serious business. Don't mock it!

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:16 am

@Sonic R
Indeed!

@DJ Incompetent
You have a point. If someone actually meets the criteria for voting (knows nearly all of the games from last year's top 25 and most from the honorable mentions list) and is willing to go through the trouble of listing 25 games and assigning scores, then that could be considered a valid "entrance exam" in itself

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:53 am

God, an entrance exam would be amazing. Or perhaps a huge test that we have to take every year. The result in percentage form could replace the post count just beneath our avatars. It could be split into a practical and a written section.

"Oh shut up MX7, you only scored a measly 45 on your Shmups Aptitude Test"

jp · Post by jp » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:02 pm

Serious cat makes me lol (<-- one of the very few times where I find using "lol" appropriate).

At any rate, yeah, while I can understand the idea behind limiting who can and can't vote based on community participation, I don't necessarily agree with it. Especially since a lot of the n00bs are making far better lists than a lot of the regulars.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:33 pm

idea for next year: no tactical editing

you make a list and stick to it

Krooze L-Roy · Post by **Krooze L-Roy** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:02 am

One question: Is Mutant Storm Empire considered an arena shmup or a run n gun? In other words, can I vote for it?

Two questions, actually. And this one's more hypothetical, since I doubt anyone would vote for it unless they just wanted to be a shit-disturber, but would Vertical Force for the Virtual Boy be vote-for-able? It's obviously a shmup, but has it been "definitioned out" of the genre for practical purposes? Just some junk-food for thought.

jp · Post by jp » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:50 pm

I don't think Mutant Storm Empires would be eligible. I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain it is.

Vertical Force, on the other hand, is totally eligible.

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:12 pm

Krooze L-Roy wrote:One question: Is Mutant Storm Empire considered an arena shmup or a run n gun? In other words, can I vote for it?

I just watched a video of it. I'd say it's eligible, but it just barely makes the cut. The action always takes place in small enclosed areas, so I think that it qualifies as a single screen arena shmup.

Vertical Force is a proper shmup. No doubt about that.

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:54 pm

What about Sei Senshi Amatelass, Crazy Cop, Senjou no Ookami 2, Ark Area, and Heavy Barrel?

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:26 pm

Zebra Airforce wrote:What about Sei Senshi Amatelass, Crazy Cop, Senjou no Ookami 2, Ark Area, and Heavy Barrel?

Do you reall want to vote for all of them?

Ark Area seems close enough. It's eligible, I guess.
Soldier Girl Amazon, Gang Busters, Mercs and Heavy Barrel are out.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:07 pm

Schatten never found the awesome superbike in Soldier Girl Amazon.

Anyway, I hope that we can come to some sort of conclusion in the future taking OUT games like Smash TV and putting games like OutZone (which has the yellow plane formation from Flying Shark as a powerup, come on!) in.

I understand the difficulties, though. :)

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:41 am

Okay, how about Rohga Armor Force and Break Thru?

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:04 am

Are they 2D auto-scroll shooters? If yes, then yes.

Apply this simple formula whenever you are in doubt concerning the eligibility of a game.

jp · Post by jp » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:05 am

I predict Gradius V will be #1 this year. Followed by either DoDonPachi or Ikaruga.

Edit:
AHhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Sonic R took down his/her list, thus causing us to lose an invaluable Blast Wind vote.

Noooo Sonic R, come back and help the Ultimate Destroyer to where it should rightfully be!!!!!!!!!!

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:33 am

Turrican wrote:
I know I'm not highly versed on how this place decides to do its stuff, and that my opinion means squat here. But those are my thoughts on it.
Aww, come on. That's not true. Everyone here respects your stances. And while I'd probably fight teeth and nails to keep a safe distinction between Gradius and your beloved Galaxy Force II, you cannot say there's no debate or everyone is deaf to what you have to say...

Not sure how the hell I missed this, or why I got a topic reply e-mail that far back just a half hour ago (where the hell has that e-mail been?), but the sentiments are appreciated Turrican.

Also, I'll have to check out that thread you linked regarding "what's a shmup?". I just need a little free time to type up my thoughts. Then I can play thread necromancer

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:43 am

jp wrote: AHhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Sonic R took down his/her list

I think he's taking it a bit far. He doesn't seem to understand that most people here enjoy his quirky way...

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:40 am

I think he's crossed the line with what he replaced the list with

No profanity, at least.

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:04 pm

Zebra Airforce wrote:Okay, how about Rohga Armor Force and Break Thru?

Rohga Armor Force is a run'n'gun. It's even less of a shmup than Monster Lair. So it's definitely out. (Monster Lair, too.)

Break Thru seems shmuppy enough despite having a jump button, though.

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:52 pm

Herr Schatten wrote:
Zebra Airforce wrote:Okay, how about Rohga Armor Force and Break Thru?
Rohga Armor Force is a run'n'gun.

Wait, did you make it to stage 2? It seems like a run 'n gun at first because the camera is just panning left and right on this small ship, but in stage 2 you are continuously scrolling to the right, and when there is a slope in the background you can move vertically at will.

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:14 am

Zebra Airforce wrote:Wait, did you make it to stage 2? It seems like a run 'n gun at first because the camera is just panning left and right on this small ship, but in stage 2 you are continuously scrolling to the right, and when there is a slope in the background you can move vertically at will.

I made it to stage 3 when playing it for evaluation. It's still a run'n'gun. Moving vertically at will is only possible in certain spots. As I said, it's even less of a shmup than Monster Lair and in ML at least the second half of each stage is a "proper" shmup.

Rule of thumb: If a game only attains shmups qualities in certain parts, levels, parts of levels, or when you pick up a certain powerup (think Quartet or Outzone), it isn't eligible in the top 25 vote.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:17 pm

I dropped Nexzr and Dogyuun from my list for now (edit: Image Fight too).

Also cleared up duplicate Dragon Blaze and Rayfarce entries O_O

RGC · Post by **RGC** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:52 pm

Replaced Cho Ren Sha 68k with Tatsujin [MD]

Limbrooke · Post by **Limbrooke** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:54 pm

Ed Oscuro wrote:I dropped Nexzr and Dogyuun from my list for now (edit: Image Fight too).

Also cleared up duplicate Dragon Blaze and Rayfarce entries O_O

Nexzr I can understand, but Dogyuun? How can you possibly beat a million+ St3?!

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:46 am

Limbrooke wrote:Nexzr I can understand, but Dogyuun? How can you possibly beat a million+ St3?!

Michaelm · Post by **Michaelm** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:20 pm

My list is final

Post by **spadgy** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:38 pm

MX7 wrote:God, an entrance exam would be amazing. Or perhaps a huge test that we have to take every year. The result in percentage form could replace the post count just beneath our avatars. It could be split into a practical and a written section.

"Oh shut up MX7, you only scored a measly 45 on your Shmups Aptitude Test"

I wouldn't mind that. Then I could feel I could enter this whole voting palaver.

I really want to get involved in all this, but even with 1000+ posts, a pretty substantial collection of shmups, some presence on the hi-score tables, visits to a meet, and a fairly intimate knowledge with loads of shmups, and knowing the 90 - 95%+ in the lists, I'm still not sure I'd pass the 'are you honestly familiar' question. It's that word familiar. Still, if there's a tiny bit of doubt, it's best not to procede in this case...