Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

mycophobia wrote:Metal Storm owns and might be the first game I even attempt to 2-ALL. As it stands I've reached the stage 6 boss on the first loop.
One of the best arcade-styled experiences I've had with a console original. :smile: Besides the loop's uncompromising toughness, I really like the password's progress-tracking feature. Makes gradually gaining ground as addictive as it is grueling (note it'll auto-enter your current PW if you reset).
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by mycophobia »

As a rule I don't like to use passwords or practice modes or continues, just one credit at a time.

I wanna say I've really enjoyed all of your posts and gifs throughout this thread, BIL.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

I'm usually the same about PWs, but made an exception for MS. Its loop is a remarkably cruel puzzlebox even by arcade standards, with continues swiftly becoming near-useless. They're unlimited, but confiscate your powerup; Gradius syndrome writ large, with the much hardier and denser enemies.

In this case I felt like the PW system was an active part of the game's balancing, rather than a crutch or afterthought; especially with the degree it tracks performance to. Mistakes stick, and will torpedo progress eventually; I found myself junking old PWs with deaths, bad powerup choices or lost shields to start progressively stronger credits from scratch.

Anyway, you're a much tougher gamer than I if you can see this one through to the end without stage practices. :wink: By the 2-ALL I was almost wincing at the thought, haha.

I've gotta compile all those GIFs at some point, it's become a micro-hobby! Always glad to hear others enjoy them as much as I do. If anyone ever wants a clip giffed but can't be bothered, hit me up any time. ;3
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Squire Grooktook »

BIL wrote: Animated GIF 2.8mb "TRAVEL SAFETY 4 ALL"
Spoiler
Image

I love this game but lawd it's such a goddamn tease.
Yeah.

I often find myself critiscizing it harshly every time it comes up, but I really do love it.

If there was nothing else to compare it to, I'd probably be recommending it without such reservations. But there's so much potential for more in the game that's sadly not realized.

-

Been playing a bit of Contra 3 (S-RANK) and Super Ghouls and Ghosts lately.

Revisiting C3 after the recent conversation, I have to say I was right and wrong about the first stage opener in many ways. On one hand, it's not that necessary to blaze through if you're just going for purely survival...but an "s-rank clear" is several times more volatile and intense then what I had remembered. The opener through the tower is an utterly intense rng dodging session if you're trying to avoid stopping your movement, and Technical Bonus'ing the gunwall is grave and satisfying every time. Feels more intuitive and rewarding to work into this playstyle than other Contras, (cept perhaps hardcorps, but aside from a few decent boss point blanks with sheena/ray, there's not nearly as much going on there).

Learning some speed strats for dashing through the roley poley opener in stage 3.


As for Ghouls, I love it as always but I have mixed feelings about stage 2 and 4.

2's auto scroller is glorious aesthetically, and it's pretty decent as far as auto scrollers go. Not perfect, but you generally have enough to do that it feels like its breezing by, though perhaps it stands on the borderline at times. But damn is it long. Kind of hampers me from treating it "pick up and play" style like the above.

4 I like, especially the unpredictable blue ghouls in the first half, but I'm kind of uncomfortable with the difficulty spike in the second half...and the subsequent drop after it finishes. Ah well.

Overall, despite the increased difficulty*, I don't think it channels the manic mayhem of Daimakaimura's speedier mayhem, though it does gain its own edge in terms of harrowing tension with the commitment and ensuing close shaves of the double jump. I think there's just enough rng critters in each stage (the dropping ghouls in stage 3's tower, for instance) to keep it at just barely in the same category of twitch nail biters.

*oh yeah, I"m playing on professional.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

Speaking of S-Ranks and rollies - was messing about with III/Hard last weekend, looking for parallels with Shattered Soldier's Hit Ratio system. Was particularly trying to determine if st3 rollies were set spawns, and therefore part of a theoretical ultimate run. I notice some don't seem to appear, or will roll themselves right into pits without attacking, if you're not nearby. I'm tempted to write them off given this... admittedly I prefer to just book it through that section and the following grabby fly bonanza, blowing away only baddies who do me the favour of getting too close. :3 OFC in Shattered Soldier and even Hard Corps you fight a set number of rollies, with no pits around (hmm, never considered how it's a sloping surface in both games).

I like spotting III and SS's varying takes on similar setpieces - eg the former's st4 biker rush (probably too random for Hit Ratio) VS the latter's m2 rocketeer squad (less of 'em, but you better burn all those chumps or kiss that S goodbye! One of the game's more thrilling target shoots imo... gotta charge n' burn an onrushing, bombarding horde with no time to spare).

What I love most about III/Hard st1's opening is the compelling utility of murderous aggression, and the tempering of that with quick reaction and improv. Typically if I'm mowing through a favorite run n' gun sequence, say Hard Corps's st1 pyrotechnics masterclass, or Metal Slug X's ravenously bloody opener, there's a sense of generosity on the designers' part. This is fo free, have fun before shit gets real a bit later! No matter how seamlessly I demolish III's streets, nullifying deadly set spawns and swatting upstart RNG, the mood never feels less than hateful. Out to trip me up, or at least force me to halt, preferably somewhere a sniper can impose control. I know full well how to counter the worst of these scenarios and resume my advance... what's infinitely more satisfying, though, is parrying the game's best efforts to stop my rampage and put me on the back foot to begin with.

tldr: RUN TO THE RIGHT AND KILL 'EM ALL *results guaranteed, safety not

It's rare that I can hammer a sidescroller at maximum firepower like this and not only feel no tedium (the sort transcended by HC and MSX on sheer viscerality), but still feel that sense of hateful threat each and every time.
Squire Grooktook wrote:2's auto scroller is glorious aesthetically, and it's pretty decent as far as auto scrollers go. Not perfect, but you generally have enough to do that it feels like its breezing by, though perhaps it stands on the borderline at times. But damn is it long. Kind of hampers me from treating it "pick up and play" style like the above.
If anything, Cho st2.2 is the nearest I've seen to a (passable, but decidedly overlong) autoscroller pulling through on atmosphere. The open sea's juggernaut presence is tangible - the MD Eccos have some striking, often unnerving nautical airs, but I never get such sense of the ocean's dwarfing scale and power even there. The dual-layered BG technique Capcom used to suggest heaving wave motion has held up beautifully - far moreso than the gaudy rotation effects later on.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by mycophobia »

Got the 1-ALL on Metal Storm and was promptly sniped by the very first enemy on the second loop lol.

Also talk about an anticlimactic final boss. Maybe there's a TLB at the end of loop 2...?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Sumez »

Plz to sell me Metal Storm cheap
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Now for something completely different! I've plumbed the depths of the 3D Realms Anthology collection and finally beaten some games I've had for many years.

Alien Carnage: Has no redeeming features that I can see so I'm not playing it. Particular issues: Aimless levels, nonsensical secret items, only one visible ammo bar so you may be critically low on flamethrower fuel and not know it because you're toting about some other weapon (and this matters because you must have fuel to move vertically by your jetpack). It does have decent enough music, I guess.
Monster Bash: Like Bio Menace this is primarily a Jim Norwood release so it's got good looks and is among the best 2D stuff here, despite its generally annoying gameplay, but lazy New 3D Realms uploaded the wrong damn version! So on the last few levels of the first ep you have a mandatory timer on dying, and on the last stage it threw up a half minute timer and then just locked out. Bio Menace might be better, but there is a bit of variety in enemy types as well as some of the creative use of skies that is the hallmark of the first party Apogee stuff.

Hocus Pocus: My highscores for the retail episodes (2-4; the first ep is shareware-ish) are 1336800, 1444500, 1351500, and I believe these are the maximum possible scores. 1.3M points is a lot of gold crowns at 1000 points each (but lots of items are just 100 or 250 points). On the first glance this seems like a deceptively simple game - but it is just simple. After the first level, most level layouts are very straightforward. You're meant to race through them all, making detours by warp to collect more loot. You spend most of your time watching the edges of the screen waiting for enemies to slowly warp in, watching your Hobbit-esque character pelt even smaller badguys, or watch him dissolve hideously into a sphere which then moves all the way across the map at walking speed to a secret location filled with more meaningless sapphires, rubies, diamonds, goblets, and crowns. It's very easy to find the secrets - if you can just keep your eyes open during all the monotonous running back and forth. The basic point of the game is collecting all the treasure, and doing it under a time limit. Unfortunately this requires tons of button mashing to kill the awfully spongy enemies that get in your way, fiddly elevator placement abuse, and repetitive jumps across the series of evenly spaced platforms which appear multiple times in EVERY map, most of which are spaced just so you cannot simply run straight across while pushing jump - no, you usually have to pause your forward movement just long enough for stunted Hocus to touch down momentarily. All the same this also means you spend a lot of time immediately pushing the jump button just after releasing it. Moving through the surreal yet completely interchangeable graphic tilesets, the only real breaks come at the bosses, which start out underwhelming in episode 1 and become laughable by episodes 3 and 4. There is a weak attempt at introducing some element of skill in the "smart bomb" items, which only appear a handful of time and are often harder to hit than just shooting through the enemies, or just avoiding them. After an episode you are treated to entertaining story snippets and mostly well-drawn graphics, although the very final screen of Hocus and his true love is truly frightening.

The Cutting Room Floor actually has an entry for this game, and according to Mobygames Moonlite Software actually made three other titles, all vastly inferior in looks to this one, yet suspiciously familiar.

Duke Nukem: I never was able to decide whether this is an OCD person's dream or nightmare, but there's no question - it's a nightmare, as you cannot even know the proper way to approach a level without trying it. Right off the bat, though, any - or almost any - stage with "Technorabbits" (they keep going and going...ha, ha, ...ha?) is best beaten by just letting Duke get hit. Anybody who's even seen this game in action knows the score: Leaps of faith everywhere, fiddly / obnoxious map design and item placement everywhere (one of the last stages puts bomb boxes behind empty item boxes, so you can invisibly trigger a live bomb - and then pulls the same trick again a few tiles over), tons of obscure routes, absolutely awful framerate, pretty poor core gameplay. I do like a lot of the crazier ways to achieve points, in theory, but given the low framerate and the difficulty in getting off lots of shots safely, it's a crapshoot. Favorite moment: Certainly not the girder mazes. Certainly not hiding under a one-tile platform that ED-209 clones were hopping on and off of. Certainly not the helicopters. I do like the general look of the first level and there is some clever use of the backgrounds (they even change in some levels, depending on whether you're above ground or underground, or in the past or the future), but the main thing I liked was just getting high up in the architecture and finding some goodies hidden away. Beyond all that, it's really just a pretty awful game. Strangely, the second episode gives you a gat upgrade on the first level, and full power in the next, but I couldn't find any upgrades at all until very late in the second episode.

The conveyor belt maze at the end of the second episode probably seems like the most obnoxious thing in the game, or "that green stage" (which is actually very easy to figure out), but it's an example of focused design and presents a series of clear, sustainable challenges. I found it satisfying to clear it out fully. What really annoyed me were the many cases where enemies were put in places where you had no chance of reacting quickly enough to avoid damage, having to fiddle with screen edges or jump into areas repeatedly to get item boxes to fall or enemies to appear, crappy hidden "gotchas," and soda cans in unreachable niches...in the girder mazes.

Word Rescue: I'm stuck between "clever" and "it's an abomination." It's made for kids, so some ideas that could be fun aren't allowed or developed. All that is left is a bowdlerized version of Alien - if the alien moved at 2 miles per hour and could be put away permanently by looking at it and pressing a button so Benny Bookworm will slop a pail of slime over it. Well, there is a bit more than this: It is surprisingly tense moving about the environments. If I jump on this roof edge, will I stay? Or will I fall through and pick up the wrong letter or item? You have three tasks per level (besides ruining come critter's day): Collect letters in order, match words to pictures, and find all the "book" items hidden through the stages. Some of the levels are actually fun to travel through as abstract adventure platforming (the pueblo and factory ones are my favorites - the third episode's "haunted house" is a terrible letdown, of course), but the core gameplay probably isn't more appealing to kids when you can load up The Oregon Trail, go hunting, and lose all your provisions attempting to ford a river. Many of the word associations are ambiguous - you can have a red cross picture right next to a picture of a picture of a nurse with a red cross on her uniform. So which should a kid choose for "nurse" and which for "cross?" "Bear" and "paw" is worse. For that matter, why is some vaguely pen-shaped gray thing in the game as a "file," and why are "trike" and "wine" even in the dictionary?

If you pick up the wrong letter, just find the nearest DANGER sign and throw your her/him straight in. Tactical suicide in an edutainment game - you saw it here first! Well, suicide attempts - it's less painful than dysentery.

Math Rescue: Take everything bad about Word Rescue, and make it worse! Strangely enough, the literary aspects were much improved with a dedicated writer who crafted many word puzzles you can opt to choose - if you can stay awake to read them properly, you'll be rewarded with humorous exposition of the troubles you can expect from Gruzzles. Unfortunately you can also crank up the difficulty and get swarmed by a seething mass of Gruzzle hate you can never avoid or exterminate (although you can lure them into lava pits or hungry shark mouths, but violence is never the answer - a phrase you'll never see written again in this thread). The maps so far have all been designed like parking garages, demanded by ill-conceived new game mechanics - solving puzzles in the correct numbered order (that's fun, isn't it?), and bumping into "robot controlled garbage trucks" in the correct order. Do anything wrong, and you lose a garbage can lid. Oh no! I think the whole game should have been chucked, and the student writer on this project should have released a standalone "choose your own adventure" book instead. That said, there is an end-of-level bonus lightning round, so get your fingers on the number pad and think of better times playing Surprise Attack.

I wonder what the team behind Capcom's "Adventures in the Magic Kingdom" could have cooked up if given the edutainment task.

I think that's about it. I've not touched a lot of the good platformers in the pack, but I think I need to wash out the taste with some Epic Megagames. I'm also trying to figure out which of these games reuses the Commander Keen teddy bear, and I'm definitely not going to say anything about the many extremely early and primitive 4/8 color games in the Anthology. Overall, it's astonishingly poor value for money, with most of the library having been recently released as freeware, or being available elsewhere in much superior DOSbox-free forms. There is Duke's Manhattan Project, which starts strong and ends with a whimper if my memory's right.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

mycophobia wrote:Also talk about an anticlimactic final boss. Maybe there's a TLB at the end of loop 2...?
Kind of. I can vouch for it being a fairly nervy conclusion to the 2-ALL. :wink:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Sumez »

What's your guys' thoughts on powerups in these kinds of games that immensely increase your damage output but disappear after taking one or a couple of hits? Think the power upgrade in Shinobi, or the red jacket in Shatnerhand.

On one hand I love the idea of a powerup that you want to keep, increasing the importance of avoiding hits, and rewarding you for reaching the boss safely.
On the other hand, the caveat is in the game design that now requires either making boss fights complete walk-overs when you have the powerup (Shinobi 3 is a great example of that), or balancing them for the powerup, thus making them extra hard or annoyingly long winded when you don't have it.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Durandal »

Sumez wrote:What's your guys' thoughts on powerups in these kinds of games that immensely increase your damage output but disappear after taking one or a couple of hits? Think the power upgrade in Shinobi, or the red jacket in Shatterhand.

On one hand I love the idea of a powerup that you want to keep, increasing the importance of avoiding hits, and rewarding you for reaching the boss safely.
On the other hand, the caveat is in the game design that now requires either making boss fights complete walk-overs when you have the powerup (Shinobi 3 is a great example of that), or balancing them for the powerup, thus making them extra hard or annoyingly long winded when you don't have it.
An alternate solution is to make consistent dodging of attacks easier like a SHMUP, but on the flipside more players will be more likely to have the power-up activated for a much longer time.
You could also have such a power-up be activated by filling a meter which fills if you satisfy certain conditions, rather than activating it through a pick-up, meaning its possible to recover your power-up during longer boss fights (or have pick-ups drop during boss fights if you do something unique, like destroying a limb which barely affects the boss' health itself).
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by mycophobia »

AC Shinobi's way of doing it seems sensible.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Sir Ilpalazzo »

I'm down with it. When used well in games like Shatterhand and Castlevania Bloodlines, it's great - I don't think it's an issue that you get to dominate the boss as a reward for making it through most of the level (and the boss fight itself) unscathed.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Although I like occasionally switching weapons in various games, I think I lean more towards a "dedicated moveset" that's consistently available at the same level of strength, to be mastered throughout the whole course of the game and all future playthroughs.

Of course I enjoy a good power up based showdown from time to time. Bloodlines/Super Shinobi's no-damage murder-fests are definitely rewarding and visceral.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

Sumez wrote:What's your guys' thoughts on powerups in these kinds of games that immensely increase your damage output but disappear after taking one or a couple of hits? Think the power upgrade in Shinobi, or the red jacket in Shatnerhand.
William Shatnerhand? :3

I'm broadly okay with the POW concept. I take a performance approach to my action games; learning the game's layout while taking my lumps, gradually bringing it under survival control, then finally (if it's something I like) going for a reasonably authoritative clear. The POW mechanic favoured by Natsume in Shatterhand and several other games (Kage FC, Kiki SFC) means the initial "basic training" pass will take longer, and the final advanced phase will be that much more elusive... but since this is my favoured approach anyway, I'm fine with that (provided the game is good, obviously!).

I do think some games handle it better than others; it can be a pain if the lower power level is overly handicapped, or if the upper one is hard to reach. Shatterhand has one POW level to gain or lose, and it boosts only your damage output. This was an improvement on its predecessor Kage, which not only requires two upgrades for maximum power, but has slow, short-ranged L1/L2 weaponry you'll be using more than is comfortable while learning the game. Worth persevering with, certainly, but I totally understand anyone who gets a bad first impression from the starting butterknife.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by mycophobia »

Metal Storm second loop is a freakin assault. I'm having to hold down shot all the time like it's a shmup or something
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

Out of curiosity, have you been using P (shot upgrade) up until now? I'm happy enough to mow through the first loop with it alone, but in the second, choosing between P's wall-piercing speedkills and G's invincible frames became a compellingly fiendish dilemma. S didn't get much of a look in, something I'll probably revisit on a rainy day.

I used to think of the first and second loops as "console" and "arcade" variants of the game, but in hindsight, I'd put a theoretical AC version somewhere between them. Loop 2's intensity could absolutely suffice for the second loop of an actual arcade title. Helluva substantial game, Metal Storm.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by mycophobia »

I've been using P without a second thought. I'll definitely experiment now that you mentioned it though
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by mycophobia »

I no-missed the first loop for the first time ever...then game overed at those three ships at the beginning of stage 2 argh :x
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BrianC »

I tried a bit of Rockman Megaworld and Wily Wars on the Everdrive. Surprisingly, Wily Wars EU runs at the correct speed in NTSC when the region lock is bypassed. I couldn't tell a difference in game or music speed between Wily Wars and Megaworld. The game itself is a bit disappointing compared to the NES versions. Lots of odd changes with physics and timing and there seems to be more slowdown than the NES versions of the games. Remixes aren't too hot compared to the NES originals either. Mainly trying them out to see if I can get the save working in the game, which I'm having a hard time with on the Mega Everdrive X7 (though most other games save fine).
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Guess I gotta bump this thread with some more of that DOS sidescrolling goodness everybody was demanding to hear more about! I'll be as brief as I can (covering four games).

I played through all three episodes of Bio Menace, only missing the final secret level of episode one. Strange difficulty progression: The first episode has some easy / cheesy levels, and a few difficult ones. The second episode is more difficult, but still quite doable on Medium (at which you can take three free hits before you need to heal or die, and lots of enemies soak up damage). The third episode goes straight off the rails, with a frankly insane combination of details in the first level - to start off you get put just behind a nearly invisible mine at the level start (an old Duke Nukem trick). Pick your way past three more, and then you see a safe ledge with a mine on it - jump over that, and suddenly you're being spat at by an obnoxious poisonous snake. The level only gets worse: On your way up ladders, enemies will crowd around the opening and you have very little chance to get through without taking some damage - either due to ricocheting snake spit, or bump damage from the green mega-Fraggle bullies. Manage to survive that, and you can find a quick and painful death by trying to pass two inconspicuous green patches of radiation blocking a fake level exit (hiding 500 point pickups, apparently). Go the other way, and you can either execute some very precise ladder jumps above an electric barrier and try to kill a snake to get a secret, or you can head straight out of the level, through a corridor with more of the four-way random plasma cannon shots, now in a corridor so short you can barely jump, with everything tinted blue so you can hardly see the blue energy shots. I'm not sure how you're really supposed to be able to survive all that. The rest of the episode has some more of the same, and a lot of really big enemies. I did enjoy destroying one of the giant tank robots with a single grenade, watching many others get blown up by a new robot enemy type, and how every time I jumped at a wall I found a secret warp gem inside.

Thank goodness for this page - I slapped on a couple cheats for that third episode. It was quite fun mixing the powerful blue shot pickup with the C+A+T code, which gives you plasma bolt power, now at the rate and capacity of the machine gun; typing CAT again reloads your weapon. This can take half the health off the final boss in one button press! It's a lot better than the silly "Street Fighter" directional button press codes, only a few of which seemed to work.

The game's item-based weapons system isn't the greatest, and tapping fire repeatedly when you get stuck with the peashooter is the pits, as is not having control over the current grenade / ammo type. But what is worse are the physics combined with the map design. A forward jump is a high, narrow arc. "Snake" Logan feels more massive than many other platformer heroes, and you can't just carefully position him at the edge of a pit because he doesn't move forward in pixel increments, but in larger steps. I don't think you can reliably tell how close you are to the edge of a ledge, either, as the map grid doesn't seem to watch with his step size. Inertia only seems to matter after you've started moving, so you can't count on a running start, and it's painful to maneuver in places where you need to execute air control. Other significant problems include his sprite not matching up with his safe landing spot (this is really noticeable if you drop straight down for the clever but annoying secret at the start of Ant Town, an early episode 2 map; any forward momentum will make you miss the narrow platform and die), and if you jump into a low "doorway" ceiling, he'll noticeably pop above the low edge when passing through into the open.

I never really understood the relationship between Apogee stuff and iD Software until I played a few more games. There is Apogee's Secret Agent, apparently a very cramped version of Commander Keen with more of the typical Apogee-style puzzle action - and they reused Keen's bear pickup item. Secret Agent has its own movement and hitbox problems (can't jump out and up when there is a solid tile above your head - Duke Nukem 1 allows this but it's not easy to pull off; Secret Agent also gets hit by things that don't physically touch him, and as you want that 25,000 no damage bonus, it's really aggravating to get hit by a ceiling fan).

I played some levels of Commander Keen: Invasion of the Vorticons - enough to figure out how to do things and fire the gun, and I did not like it at all. The humor is decent enough, but I just can't see any reason why I'd want to suffer through these levels. Ugly and lots of annoying level design, now with the benefit of sizeable inertia to start running and jumping = no thanks. Secret Agent looks very primitive in comparison, and often plays badly, but when it works it's fun enough. I can't say that about the first Keen.

Finally I tried Dangerous Dave in the Haunted Mansion. It's really something! I can see why people speculate this is the basis for Bio Menace's engine - because it probably is. Again, there's a lot of evil design here by people who didn't know when to dial it back, and the offscreen deaths sure are annoying. Letting the shotgun reload (and not knowing where you're facing) is also annoying. The quirks of aiming are annoying. Beyond that, though, it's a refreshing game - just not for the many hours they seem to expect you to play to master all the levels and then beat them all in one sitting. This calls for a variant of DOSbox with savestates, I think. With a few tweaks, this would be an even better game; as it is, it's pretty clever and the aesthetics are just right - the animated death portraits definitely prefigure DOOMguy's mugshot but there's also a lot of humor here. It's just a damn shame that it's such a chore to get around with ghosts, spiders, and slimes out. Still, I'd recommend any sidescroller fan give this a look, because it's halfway decent despite being really different from most any console game. I also like that typical clever secret before you're even in the house - without overusing it as much as you could expect in the typical Duke Nukem, Monster Bash, or Bio Menace level. On top of that, for once the hero is smaller than most of the monsters!
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by BIL »

Ed Oscuro wrote:Guess I gotta bump this thread with some more of that DOS sidescrolling goodness everybody was demanding to hear more about! I'll be as brief as I can (covering four games).
Don't worry on either count ol' pal, it's all gratefully accepted. ;3 I've been a bit less active the last week or so, got a few posts of my own to make a bit later today. For now I will say I am always pleased to be reminded of Bio Menace Mullet Man!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Sumez »

I can't say too much on the old Apogee titles, it's been so long since I played them as a kid, but I DID love a lot of those old platformers. Monster Bash, Bio Menace and Hocus Pocus all stand out to me. And of course the first two Duke "Nukum" games. Hell, even Math Rescue, I loved that one.
I also had a very Apogee'ish game called Elfland, I don't think a lot of people ever heard of that one.
I even played them all in black-and-white, since all I had to play computer games on were my mom's work laptop. And yeah, laptops in the early 90's meant a really shitty 16-grayscales LCD monitor on a huge frame.

Funny enough, Commander Keen was never really my cup of tea, and that seems to be everyone's favourite nowadays and the only one that's still tends to come up in conversations.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Ed Oscuro »

I managed to play through Elfland a few years ago, it's cute and charming. There may be some better stuff out there, but that one is close to the top for production values and looks at least - and is yet another platformer with some treetop platforming, a staple of PC platformers. A lot less painful to go through than Captain Comic, too (I just had a look at the two maps of Captain Comic online, I can't imagine I'd be able to stomach all that after my memories with the shareware episode!)

Sometime I really need to take another look at the old shareware CD which has been sitting in my disc drive for a long time and see what else there is.

I finished up Dangerous Dave in the Haunted Mansion - got fed up with restarting so I slapped on cheats at the seventh stage (the one after the midboss anyway). There's a few new gory visuals in the last couple levels, but on the whole they are rather poor levels without much point. The final boss seemed easier than the miniboss to me, so long as you could shoot down the hands and avoid the fireballs. Overall, it hits a bit more than it misses, but there's not much staying power in it, and having to wait for reloads (at least when GOD mode wasn't active via G+F12) was annoying, accidentally quitting past the continue screen was annoying, and

There are a few invincible flaming skulls in the game. Alpha version of the DOOM Lost Soul? Zombie walking animations - especially when they're walking down stairs toward you - really remind me of Wolfenstein 3-D animation, and Adrian Carmack is credited with this game's art. There is also apparently an in-game level skip if you've had enough of level 3 - according to YouTube, collect all the items in stage 1, and press UP at the stage select to get to level 3.

If Haunted Mansion's Dave is a mix of Ash and Ernest P Worrell, Dave in Risky Rescue is...more of some trucker guy who now has to find ammo to hold in reserve (perhaps this explains the mysterious remark about finding ammo from the first part's notes, or was that yet another abortive Tom Hall crazy man idea?). Original credits are all gone; game runs with occasional stuttering in DOSbox. It's more uneven than the previous in every other way too, with a really rocky (although creative and rewarding) treetop maze in the first stage (watch for falls and for brown bits you can stand on), tweaked aim points, and a lot of other stuff including an apparently new miniboss. Most location graphics are totally new, and many aren't bad at all, although it's news to me that you can find European castles just next to "the old confederate hideout;" most sprites have been partly reworked and look less impressive, as do some of the partly reworked death animations - for example, the werewolf death is now a death scene for the werewolf and guard dogs, and at the end of it poor Dave's severed head and some stray vertebrae fly back into the window. There are also some programming changes, few of them worthwhile (I kind of like the lucky rabbit's foot spawning new items, but most of the rest is wasted effort). Oh, and they show the final boss right on the title screen. And they give you not only one free life for the final boss, but possibly 20 more if you explore the final boss room. Why?

The final Dave game is Dave Goes Nutz! Just like the final gasp of a series gone direct to video, it's proving to be the worst by some margin. It has a familiar enough premise - sort-of-zombies in the mental ward, woo! The granddaddy of the modern flash game - but once again, they show the final boss on the title screen, and it's apparently the same dumb critter as the last time. However, you do get to punch out guards, and self defense your way through hordes of Michael Myers-ish orderlies and Nurse "Wratcheds" with scary makeup - and now you don't even have to worry about ammo, since now Dave's shotgun is loaded with an infinite supply of hypo needles, or sabots, or Nerf darts, or something - and of course they fly backwards when you shoot to the left because that's how the lazy game designers roll here. At least you can now see, in real time, a tracer showing the hit point of your shots - on the other hand, they've changed the aim location once again. There are some neat surprises here and there, like being able to pick up icepicks, chainsaws, aspirin, portraits of smug doctors - as well as items with their names garbled for plausible deniability, like JELL-O (a trademark) and just plain old "DRUGS," everybody's favorite game item! Still, it's the same old silly points system as before. Lots of big boring mazes, lots of giant switches to turn off electric barriers. I got fed up and saved out in what I hope is one of the last levels. While the second game had one-and-a-half minibosses (Franky got reused in a trivial way, and the "main" miniboss wasn't a big deal either), this game hasn't had any so far.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Skykid »

Sumez wrote:Plz to sell me Metal Storm cheap
I remember buying my minty copy for about £8 approx 5 years ago. I know that doesn't help [/gloat]
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die

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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Ed Oscuro »

I bought omg rarez sealed NES copy for $15 at roughly that time.

Would love to have the FC original sometime.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Sumez »

Skykid wrote: I remember buying my minty copy for about £8 approx 5 years ago. I know that doesn't help [/gloat]
Would help if you sold me. I'd even pay double.

Honestly, even 5 years ago I can't imagine finding such a price. Surely it wasn't on eBay.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Shoryukev »

I'd love to find a NTSC-U NES copy of metal storm too!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by mycophobia »

I borrowed my copy from a friend who has yet to ask for it back :)
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Sidescrolling Action Miscs

Post by Skykid »

Sumez wrote:
Skykid wrote: I remember buying my minty copy for about £8 approx 5 years ago. I know that doesn't help [/gloat]
Would help if you sold me. I'd even pay double.

Honestly, even 5 years ago I can't imagine finding such a price. Surely it wasn't on eBay.
It was on here and came in what you could call a joblot from a really nice guy who doesn't post here any more. £8 is the approximate cost based on division of games against the total sum paid.
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die

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