PS4 / Xbox One console war

[Friendly]

Well, Xbone has 50% less GPU performance and 2.5X less memory bandwidth than PS4. You had to be a special kind of idiot to believe that wouldn't matter.

[Phellan Wolf]

Well, Xbone has 50% less GPU performance and 2.5X less memory bandwidth than PS4. You had to be a special kind of idiot to believe that wouldn't matter.

Dunno why but everytime I read any of your posts I got the impression that you're a sonyfanboy.
Man can't believe people still flaming with this things.
People should enjoy games and play them no matter wich system is released on.
Both systems will ha e fantastic games why you don't just enjoy them?? Cause that is what I am planning to do.

[MOSQUITO FIGHTER]

Well, Xbone has 50% less GPU performance and 2.5X less memory bandwidth than PS4. You had to be a special kind of idiot to believe that wouldn't matter.

SNES > PS4

[trap15]

Dunno why but everytime I read any of your posts I got the impression that you're a sonyfanboy.

Welcome to like 2 years ago

[BryanM]

Both systems will ha e fantastic games

citation needed~

[brownvim]

The Kinect is holding the Xbox One back to some extent as 10% of the GPU power is reserved for it to function. I read earlier today that this is being optimised to 2% to help claw back some power but it's still behind the PS4.

[Ed Oscuro]

How the hell do you kind of waste 4/5 of the resources you're allotting to a function...complete failure to do any optimization at all? In a sense this looks worse if they actually manage to get it to 2%; makes you wonder what the hell the development process was like that there's so much so obviously sloppy in the system programs.

[Ed Oscuro]

Update: Actually, it turns out it's pretty simple. Microsoft has just dropped their mandatory GPU space reserves from 10% combined for video (Kinect) and voice, to just 2% for voice processing, making the Kinect video services optional (by making the 8% reservation for Kinect video optional). No optimization here, more like a quick "rethinking" of the problem. This won't shut up "future of gaming" enthusiasts who think the Kinect is worth the price and performance differential to go with XB One instead of PS4, but it does show that traditional gaming functions still trump Kinect's importance.

[Skykid]

SNES > PS4

So true.

[stryc9]

The Atari 7800 is better than PS4 at the moment.

[brownvim]

I love the PS4, I stopped playing games on the 360 and PS3 for a year now as they started to look graphically so dated.

So I skipped Tomb Raider which I will be getting tomorrow.

[Cagar]

Might have been posted before, but is this really true?

[charlie chong]

nah that was trolling.i heard it bricks yor eggbox

[RegalSin]

SNES > PS4

Tag > Walking the dog > 21 > UNO > Monopoly > Arcade > X68000 > Command-line > flash > MSX > PC98 > PCE = DC > Mark + 2 + 3 = GB > Portable PCE > NES = SNES> MD(+SEGACD +32X) > Saturn( VCD 2.0 Add-on ) - Segata Sanshiro/3d = PSX > R2 > GC > PS2 > PS3 > X-box > Tv-Pong > N64 > 360 > 720 > Atari 2 X 2600 > VHS game > DVD game > Jagaur(+- Jaguar CD ) > Kentic > V-tech > Politics.

Either-way SNES will always be greater then PS4, because when I boot the system, it does not have a TOS contract. Then again, SNES was under the Nintendo regime, back when buying panties and school girl outfits was normal for a young or older man.

Now somebody do the factorial for this expression

[Friendly]

For a good laugh (yes, this is real):


Apt response, by someone at neogaf:

[AntiFritz]

So do any of the xbone games utilise the power of the (azure) cloud yet?

[moh]

Considering that this is a shmups forum, and most good shmups were released on really dated hardware, I would think that you guys, out of all people, would understand that system performance means nothing.

How many gems has the Motorola 68000 brought us?

ketsui
espgaluda
ddp
dp
esprade
DOJ
guwange
batsugun
the entire neo geo library..

just to name a few.... you guys can go back to talking about which version of which game has more pixels now..

[BryanM]

So do any of the xbone games utilise the power of the (azure) cloud yet?

hahahahahahah, oh you

"cloud"

heh

Considering that this is a shmups forum, and most good shmups were released on really dated hardware, I would think that you guys, out of all people, would understand that system performance means nothing.

just to name a few.... you guys can go back to talking about which version of which game has more pixels now..

wat that's why the SNES and 3DS are winning in this thread

Ditch your PSX3

Which is pretty silly because now is about the time I'd start to even consider getting one. It'll be cheap as hell (185 new, ~120 used), and Persona 5 is coming out next year. Why would I care about any of the other loser boxes?

Weirdos, all of them.

[system11]

Considering that this is a shmups forum, and most good shmups were released on really dated hardware, I would think that you guys, out of all people, would understand that system performance means nothing.

System performance means absolutely everything if the software library is 80% the same. I worked it out that last generation the vast amount of my time was spent playing cross platform games.

Also it's good to mock Microsoft, because they deserve it.

[Ed Oscuro]

My 360 cost me $10. I won't feel that I'm getting good value out of the hardware for the current gen until I find a system under $50. Harsh? That's life. Lots of stuff to keep me happy in the meantime.

But yeah, BryanM / system11 are right on the money here.

Cloudlol? Nope, the cloud is just a way to rationalize shifting hardware around in a way that's convenient (for companies that administer them) and scrimp and save on the hardware you actually get to keep. The costs are no personal security (savegames? friends list? credit card info? Well, we've been dealing with some of these problems for a while already), no long-term performance security (this service is being phased out, please transition to Xbox UFO and join us on our way off the merry bluff overlooking hell), and the promise of lag time in doing important things. I doubt that "the cloud" will give many people much better performance than streaming data from an original Xbox's hard drive, given the speeds of even broadband internet. It makes sense for the big companies, but not for the players.

System power? Yeah, if you're going to spend a lot of time with multiplatform releases (and that's pretty much everybody) then it makes no sense to cripple yourself. I am sure that the XbOne will get a fair share of good exclusives - but how many of these will be irrelevant Kinect releases? Meanwhile, here's the PS4 controller with all the appropriate functionality plus a little bit more - that's not insignificant either. The PS4 gets anything that's not exclusive to Xbox One, plus its own exclusives. Microsoft has gotta be doing a lot of backseat favors to even try to get parity in developer interest, I think, especially in markets where people don't care about Microsoft already.

I am kind of disappointed that there doesn't seem to be more discussion / takeup of the Valve controller design, though; it seems promising. Then again, VR and Kinect seem promising, too...

[Friendly]

Senior publishing source confirms new, cheaper Xbox One release for 2014
I wonder if this will make those poor souls who purchased it for 500 bones feel a bit xboned.

[BryanM]

It'll be quite the monocle tosser if even one game has a remote server that renders bloom effects or some shit and then streams it back in a nice .mp4 semi-transparent overlay on your screen. They can't or won't even keep simple little matchmaking servers up, and they're talking about defying the laws of physics with fuckin' magic?

Come on, it's goofy lies full of non-substantial marketing hype. We've all paid too much attention to the clown's silly little dance.

[AntiFritz]

Come on, it's goofy lies full of non-substantial marketing hype. We've all paid too much attention to the clown's silly little dance.

Yep, I never thought it was real but thought I'd ask just in case it wasn't just a buzzword.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yeah, questions are good! Microsoft hyperbole is bad. Welcome to the Cloud Level. (Or Crazy Cloud Cookoo Land, as the case may be.)

@ Friendly: I doubt they'll feel any worse off than before. From the article:

Although the source was unable to confirm that the system will be disc-less and feature a bluetooth adaptor, the new console will be priced cheaper than the current $499 model.

However, where are you gonna make up $100 - $150 (what it realistically needs to be to make up the performance difference, IMO) in value from just process improvements? I really doubt they can make that off of the CPU and GPU bits, which are probably already being spun off a very modern process.

If the new system is a download box only, well...I KNOW there are some BoneDrones out there who were clamoring for that kind of thing for the beginning, but I think many other people will rightfully go "ewww" and stay the fuck away. Funny that Microsoft will likely be sneaking in part of their DRM'd vision as a gimme to consumers with the rationale being how uncompetitive the price is right now.

[Stormwatch]

Discless? That'd be as stupid and worthless as the PSP Go. Just get rid of the Kinect, who likes that anyway?

[Specineff]

Kinect: The Activator for the 21st century.

[Ed Oscuro]

I was just reminded that the original Xbox cost $200 in 2002 (and probably at launch as well), while Microsoft might have been eating $200 in losses.

How much are the current systems costing their manufacturers? You can't even get an Xbox One without eating $500 upfront; how much does it really make Microsoft to make one?

That said, not everything is terrible. Since the original Xbox, even with the apparently quite big dies of the current systems, they don't seem to be a return to the most power-hungry specifications of the PS3. Despite reports like this one, power consumption is down compared to the original versions of the previous generation, and later hardware revisions will continue to improve those numbers.

This being said, apparently newer hardware can still be more efficient in its first incarnation, compared to repeatedly redesigned old systems with process-shrunk parts: The Wii U has a 75W power supply despite being more capable than the 360 and PS3, and the latest revisions of those consoles still use about as much power (a little more than 70 watts playing a game on the PS3; somewhere around 120-ish watts on the 360). Dunno how much of this is down to IBM's latest Power chip in the Wii U, and how much is due to other factors like flash memory versus spinning drives. It is also interesting to see that Microsoft's consoles tend to be more power-hungry than Sony's.

Honestly I do think there is a lot going for these systems now: Potentially quite smooth gaming in the lag sense, less power usage than PCs. But why would I buy (for example) an Xbox One for Titanfall, with it coming to PCs? Ditto Witcher 3 (which looks incredible, I think) for PS4, when that's also coming to PC?

[ZellSF]

Considering that this is a shmups forum, and most good shmups were released on really dated hardware, I would think that you guys, out of all people, would understand that system performance means nothing.

Many shmups actually took a lot of advantage of the hardware they were on. System performance means a lot, the NES couldn't do any of the titles you named. Even ignoring that most games are multiplatform, system power not mattering has always been a silly statement.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Many shmups actually took a lot of advantage of the hardware they were on. System performance means a lot, the NES couldn't do any of the titles you named. Even ignoring that most games are multiplatform, system power not mattering has always been a silly statement.

I think the point was more that good development doesn't necessarily require top of the line hardware. The NES had a lot of solid shmups released for it, in spite of its limitations. Heck, even the Gameboy and Game Gear, very limited handhelds in terms of capabilities, had some amazing shmups (GG Aleste 1 & 2 are fantastic) the sign of a good developer is someone who produces a really good game even when their tools are fairly limited compared to someone who has access to high end specs tech but churns out overrated garbage. Having good hardware doesn't necessarily mean you'll have good developers making games for that hardware.

[ZellSF]

Many shmups actually took a lot of advantage of the hardware they were on. System performance means a lot, the NES couldn't do any of the titles you named. Even ignoring that most games are multiplatform, system power not mattering has always been a silly statement.

I think the point was more that good development doesn't necessarily require top of the line hardware. The NES had a lot of solid shmups released for it, in spite of its limitations. Heck, even the Gameboy and Game Gear, very limited handhelds in terms of capabilities, had some amazing shmups (GG Aleste 1 & 2 are fantastic) the sign of a good developer is someone who produces a really good game even when their tools are fairly limited compared to someone who has access to high end specs tech but churns out overrated garbage. Having good hardware doesn't necessarily mean you'll have good developers making games for that hardware.

No, but it does mean you have more possibilities. To say hardware is irrelevant is saying we don't want games like the ones he mentioned.