PS4 / Xbox One console war

[replayme]

Just shut the fuck up please. I think literally everybody on this forum is sick of your shit.

Why don't you???

Mr "I know nothing".

Skykid asked me to elaborate, so I did.

[replayme]

It would be really great if they didn't remake FFVII though. Such an average game.

That's obviously a matter of opinion. Certainly the notion of FF7 being one of the most traded in games in history supports your theory, yet its stature amongst FF fans implies that maybe some people just don't get it.

To label it as average is maybe your way of arguing that you weren't able to understand its appeal or appreciate it when you played it.

[Skykid]

I didn't ask you to elaborate. It was a rhetorical question and answer.

That's obviously a matter of opinion.

In my opinion it's a matter of fact.

[replayme]

I didn't ask you to elaborate. It was a rhetorical question and answer.

Well, you weren't clear, and should have spelled it out as being rhetorical.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

To label it as average is maybe your way of arguing that you weren't able to understand its appeal or appreciate it when you played it.

The appeal is mostly nostalgia as it was the first 3D Final Fantasy game released. The change in graphics didn't do anything to change the gameplay, the easily transferable Materia system makes characters more or less carbon copies of each other aside from their limit breaks, and the only really noteworthy thing about it is that it basically introduced (or is to blame for) a lot of minigames within the game itself. It's not really a stellar RPG by any means; it's fairly linear and character creation basically consists of levelling materia. It looked pretty for its time, I guess, but earlier entries like FF5 with its job system and FF6 with its open-ended, non-linear second half of the game felt more interesting. FF6 also was much more ambitious in terms of its dungeons, the multi-party dungeons are particularly interesting to play. FF7 also introduced the unpleasant mechanic of having the main character be unremovable from battle (you always have to have Cloud fighting for some reason, even though you've got a large cast), which I consider a no-no in an RPG. I like to play with whatever party formations I please, it's not interesting to have one guy arbitrarily forced to always be part of the party. FF7's also frankly a bit easy. Once you learn that the Sadness status ailment makes you take less damage (30% less) with only a minor setback (half limit gain), you'll be using Tranquilizers to make your party permanently depressed the rest of the game. Go drug abuse! Oh well, there's always the superbosses.

Probably worst of all, one of the central mechanics, limit breaks, is basically a half-assed ripoff of a better game mechanic. Lufia 2 (made a year earlier) did the whole "take damage, build up meter" thing better a year before on the SNES - equipment determined what specials you had, so some equipment with bad stats actually had good IP skills so there was more strategy involved in equipment selection compared to FF7 where it's usually just use your highest level limit (aside from specific cases like having Barret use Mindblow to drain MP).

Average is a generous way of describing it. It's not really aged well, and is generally overrated.

[Skykid]

Average is a generous way of describing it. It's not really aged well, and is generally overrated.

Additionally the original translation is a horrible mess and the game's pacing is needlessly strung out and overly slow.

Making absolutely no sense is the tip of the iceberg with FF7.

[Ed Oscuro]

FFVII isn't Myst in that it still has high interest in the major platform it's being sold on that we have data for.

I like how you say that without any data at all. Well, I'll just assume you overestimate FFVII and underestimate Myst. No reason to think otherwise! (Incidentally, even though Cyan is very manpower-limited, they still released versions of Myst - the 3D version - and Riven for Apple devices.)

[BryanM]

Probably worst of all, one of the central mechanics, limit breaks, is basically a half-assed ripoff of a better game mechanic. Lufia 2 (made a year earlier) did the whole "take damage, build up meter" thing better a year before on the SNES - equipment determined what specials you had, so some equipment with bad stats actually had good IP skills so there was more strategy involved in equipment selection compared to FF7 where it's usually just use your highest level limit

Really I always viewed it as a way of implementing FF6's limit breaks in a manner in which more than 5 or 6 people would know that they even exist. You'll get no argument from me that making ~7 something skills that are relevant for only 15 minutes is wasteful..

At the end of the day the nearly the entire genre is guilty of the Renzokuken Complex, Loofia included. The charge system back in FF1 was infinitely better at promoting variety. Or, dare I say, the charge system in... Phantasy Star 4. If you ignore the mp system it had.

Recharge timers and/or limited uses should be a part of any jRPG srs.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Really I always viewed it as a way of implementing FF6's limit breaks in a manner in which more than 5 or 6 people would know that they even exist.

FF6's barely even counts in my opinions - desperation moves are basically a "when you're at low HP, using Fight might randomly use an upgraded attack", they're not really controllable enough or versatile enough to be comparable.

You're right that PS4 had a great system of limiting how many uses of abilities you could use, rather than just giving you limitless MP restoring items like the FF games tend to nowadays.

[Bananamatic]

FF7's also frankly a bit easy. Once you learn that the Sadness status ailment makes you take less damage (30% less) with only a minor setback (half limit gain), you'll be using Tranquilizers to make your party permanently depressed the rest of the game. Go drug abuse! Oh well, there's always the superbosses.

Actually:
Tranquilizers - 30% reduction
Barrier/MBarrier - 50% reduction
Back row - 50% reduction from physicals
Ziedrich - 50% reduction from all elemental attacks(99,99% of all attacks are covered by this as even physical attacks have their own hidden element for some reason)
Oh, and the ultimate weapons get damage modifiers that pretty much translate to triple damage all the time.

This reduces every enemy in the game to absolutely nothing. Even with a no exp code on, it's pathetically easy. The opposite of Sadness also doubles the rate at which you get limits, which is possibly even more broken. To be honest though, every FF can be broken to hell and back. Can't really see myself ever replaying one of the games again.
Good thing people started to make difficulty hacks(the FFX one is really good)

[Jonathan Ingram]

Yeah, that was full 3D, which I already covered above...

It's unrealistic to expect the remake to not have the production values that match or are at least in the same ballpark as those of the mainline FF. A Tose or an ArtePiazza farmed out cash-in with insignificant graphical improvements over the original wouldn't sit well with the fanbase. It's certainly not what everyone expects of a Final Fantasy VII remake nor how SE would go about making it had they finally decided to give it a go. The PS3 tech demo set the initial bar for the remake and the standards and expectations have only risen since then. Not to mention that a console Final Fantasy title that's not "full 3D" is never going to pull in the kind of numbers so as to proudly carry the banner of a "SquareEnix savior".

Average is a generous way of describing it.

There are some four hundred RPGs on the PSX(give or take fifty) and FFVII is not even as good as half of them? Really now. Hating on FFVII is so not in vogue anymore, guys and gals. It's all about Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed now(and mobile gaming).

[Ganelon]

I like how you say that without any data at all. Well, I'll just assume you overestimate FFVII and underestimate Myst. No reason to think otherwise! (Incidentally, even though Cyan is very manpower-limited, they still released versions of Myst - the 3D version - and Riven for Apple devices.)

I could be, but I already provided data in the form of most awaited remake on many media lists and top-selling status on PSN classics. It's not an ideal data set but it's the only data I'm aware of and not conjecture that "a remake of FFVII won't work because a recent remake of a game from a dead genre was largely ignored." If you're disagreeing with my assertion that an FFVII remake is profit just waiting to happen, then the ball is in your court to disprove what I'm saying or just draw the line in the sand.

It's unrealistic to expect the remake to not have the production values that match or are at least in the same ballpark as those of the mainline FF. A Tose or an ArtePiazza farmed out cash-in with insignificant graphical improvements over the original wouldn't sit well with the fanbase.

Why unrealistic? None of Square's remakes so far has come close to the quality of the latest installments. And all of Square's remakes—including the upcoming FFX|X-2—have been outsourced. I'm not certain whether outsourcing is the right choice here but even you're admitting that FFVII would be an easy cash-in regardless of who remakes it. And that was my initial point in the first place: that Square is sitting on easy profit for a rainy day. And in the meantime, it's busy remaking SaGa games...

[Ed Oscuro]

I could be, but I already provided data in the form of most awaited remake on many media lists and top-selling status on PSN classics. It's not an ideal data set

lol media lists
such data

If you're disagreeing with my assertion that an FFVII remake is profit just waiting to happen, then the ball is in your court to disprove what I'm saying or just draw the line in the sand.

Nope.

[Friendly]

Stealth marketing: Microsoft paying YouTubers for Xbox One mentions

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/01/s ... -mentions/

According to a leaked copy of the full legal agreement behind the promotion, video creators "may not say anything negative or disparaging about Machinima, Xbox One, or any of its Games" and must keep the details of the promotional agreement confidential in order to qualify for payment. In other words, to get the money, video makers have to speak positively (or at least neutrally) about the Xbox One, and they can't say they're being paid to do so.

This is a good time to see which websites are sponsored by MS, btw: Only those that aren't seem to be reporting this story.

Edit: Is this actually legal? Doesn't sound like it:
http://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-re ... guidelines

[Ed Oscuro]

I wonder what they'd think of Red vs. Blue. Natural to think that they would not want to pay people for speaking ill of the services but misery likes company and good comedy. With the Xbox One, they'll have plenty to bond over, I'm sure.

[ZellSF]

Wouldn't it be better if all the consoles sold as well as each other? If Microsoft wasn't here, Sony would be doing what Microsoft were planning with the drm because console gamers wouldn't have a choice. Remember they patented those disc ID chips sometime not too long ago. The price of the ps4 would probably be higher too. Sony's keeping Microsoft from becoming demons AND vice versa.

Late reply, but I think this is wrong.

Looking at everything Microsoft is doing, they don't appear to realize they have competition. Sony's not keeping them from doing anything.

[Friendly]

[replayme]

That's obviously a matter of opinion.

In my opinion it's a matter of fact.

I really don't know where you get your superiority complex from. Your opinion is valid, but taken in context, forms a minority and is not a fact. FF7 has a Metacritic rating of 92 - from an army of tastemakers who have an army of followers paying heed to every word they say.

If you don't agree with something, then that's fine. But to impose your dogmatic viewpoints on others, by trying to argue that your opinions are a "fact" goes against the very fabric of free will and thought.

Maybe in your reality the idea of FF7 being "average" is a "fact". But that's like arguing that the world is flat, after it was proven that the Earth is round.

Obviously the game wasn't "average" enough in order for a large amount of people to forget about it. The fact that "news" of a possible remake is mentioned on mainstream gaming sites, and the fact that it's being mentioned now (some 15 years later) just goes to show as to how much demand there is for what you deem to be a painfully average product.

[Skykid]

But to impose your dogmatic viewpoints on other

I used that word on you yesterday.

If a person expresses an opinion based on a belief or understanding, they should be presenting the notion as a fact or what's the point of expressing it?

"I think this is really good... maybe. I mean I'm not quite sure, it's just my inkling. I mean, I really like it personally, but maybe others don't."

Fuck all that. Commit or hold your tongue.

[replayme]

But to impose your dogmatic viewpoints on other

I used that word on you yesterday.

If a person expresses an opinion based on a belief or understanding, they should be presenting the notion as a fact or what's the point of expressing it?

"I think this is really good... maybe. I mean I'm not quite sure, it's just my inkling. I mean, I really like it personally, but maybe others don't."

Fuck all that. Commit or hold your tongue.

Understood. And sorry for the confusion.

Still pays to maybe present your views with a degree of humility though...

[BareKnuckleRoo]

FF7 has a Metacritic rating of 92

Fez has a metacritic rating of 91. It's a pretentious turd of a puzzle game riddled with a freakishly large number of serious bugs masquerading as a platformer. But it looks pretty, and has a competent soundtrack, so it must be game of the year! God Hand, one of the best beat 'em ups ever made, has a measly 73 critic rating. Anyone who plays God Hand seriously will tell you the combat is fucking incredible, but it's an intimidating game because, like shmups, it's actually challenging. Let's not forget this:



If you're going by what critics tell you, you'd think FF7 was one of the greatest RPGs ever. It's trash, and as Bananamatic points out, it's fucking easy to break. Easier than earlier games in the series by far. The first and only time I played through FF7 to see if I was missing out on something or if it was just hype, I never got a gameover. It was friggin' pathetic. You know that Supernova, that one attack everyone goes ZOMG over because it has a long animation sequence with planets exploding and shit? It can't even kill you - it does 15/16th of your current HP damage, and the scariest thing about the damn attack (other than it taking forever) is that is might inflict confuse, silence or slow. Which it probably can't, because unless you're a moron, you'll just use a Vaccine at the start of the fight to stop status ailments.

This is all a longwinded way of saying fuck mainstream critics.

[BryanM]

It's trash, and as Bananamatic points out, it's fucking easy to break.

"Trash" is a little too harsh. It is entertaining, what with its consistent change of scenery and characters yelling at/trying to have sex with one another. It isn't in the same bucket as Legend of Dragoon. Or worse, Breath of Fire 1. Breath of Fire 1, a game with utterly no redeeming trait besides "eh the characters are pretty to look at and are furry if you liek that sort of thing". A game that you can transform into a bumblefuck of a dragon or do the Dragon Ball fusion dance, and still somehow falls short of playing the original Dragon Quest on the NES.

Which is well beloved by a certain faction of deviants on the internet. One of which always get enraged when I state the thing's objectively bad. Much like the people who rate the reprehensible children's cartoon Shiki, which falls miles short of any of the modern PBS Kids' fare, 4/5 on amazon.

I would rate FF7 a little above mediocre. Its biggest sin was kicking off the trend of cramming in animations that get in between you, and the game.

[evil_ash_xero]

I like FF7. Oh well.

I like God Hand too, but it has some serious problems. Cheap graphics, and fucked up camera come to mind.
If it was as polished as Viewtiful Joe, it would probably be higher ranked.

IGN was nuts though, and everyone should always point that out. The thing about that review, is that it has a "second take", where the reviewer says that EVERYONE at IGN hates God Hand, and he only sorta liked it. I think he gave it a 5 or something.

[system11]

That review of Party Babyz makes me feel like this about the future of gaming:

[Bananamatic]

Cheap graphics, and fucked up camera come to mind.

10x better than DMC3's camera tbh

[Friendly]

Nice, Eurogamer is now reporting about the Xbone marketing scandal: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014- ... one-report
And it's also hitting mainstream media http://metro.co.uk/2014/01/21/microsoft ... e-4271088/

I wonder if any legal action will be taken, as this seems to be a clear breach of advertising regulations both in the US and Europe.

[Ed Oscuro]

Hmm, good to see the FTC doesn't consider YT to be the Wooly West after all. Hope a straightjacket fits you well, Maj. Nelson and co.

This also confirms a longstanding suspicion that (based on not much, really) that Machinablahmah was doing pretty well on not much of anything, and perhaps is a clue how that got to be so. But hopefully this is wrong and it's just a sign of an obvious ethical lapse on their part, which can be corrected without gutting their structure. It's not as if I really care, though, when I can't think of a single game video I've really enjoyed which even had their branding on it (that I recall).

[Khan]

Nice, Eurogamer is now reporting about the Xbone marketing scandal: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014- ... one-report
And it's also hitting mainstream media http://metro.co.uk/2014/01/21/microsoft ... e-4271088/

I wonder if any legal action will be taken, as this seems to be a clear breach of advertising regulations both in the US and Europe.

lol looks like MS gaming division hit an all time low, does not surprise me console wars are serious business

[system11]

Apparently the Tomb Raider 'ultimate' version is mostly 60fps on the PS4 and mostly 30fps on the Xbone.

Uh-oh..... Predictably sized fireworks already going off.

[Jonathan Ingram]

And the PS4 COD:Ghosts had 2.25 times as many pixels as the Xbox version. Will be interesting to see how things will develop further in this console generation. The gap in power between the two systems seems quite big.