RetroTink 4K All But Officially Announced ....

[EnragedWhale]

Joe pinned it in the comments on his YouTube preview video a couple of days ago. Stumbled across it by accident.

https://youtu.be/DXsAXSOy5HI?si=kSwMEEj6oECvmNgk

[Guspaz]

Joe Redifer of Gamesack is reporting that the RT4K will now pass through up to 7.1 LPCM which should be sufficient for most people needs

Won’t do atmos but can’t see that being much of an issue

It will do Dolby Atmos over Dolby Digital Plus (I've tested it myself), but not over Dolby TrueHD or MAT. We're not sure if those (and DTS-HD MA) are impossible yet, but they'll require a different technical approach.

[pewpewpewpewpewpew]

Joe Redifer of Gamesack is reporting that the RT4K will now pass through up to 7.1 LPCM which should be sufficient for most people needs

Won’t do atmos but can’t see that being much of an issue

Only the modern Xbox consoles have Atmos so it's not really important.

PS5 just got it recently.

But does a PS5 need to be upscaled to 4K? Doesn't the console itself do it?

[Guspaz]

It can, and for most use cases, the PS5's own upscaler may be better. There are still potential reasons to want to run a PS5 through an RT4K. Integer upscaling for older games (that run at perhaps 1080p or 720p), scanline and CRT overlay effects for games (especially older or retro ones), software BFI support for scenarios where the TV does a bad/laggy job of it, film projector BFI cadences (where with 24 FPS content, a film projector shows each frame two or three times with every flash), the SDR-to-HDR tonemapping to boost brightness with BFI or scanlines/overlays, image rotation, etc.

The newer the hardware you're using, the less reason there is to use a retro game scaler on it, but that doesn't mean there are no reasons you might want to.

[bobrocks95]

Can pretty confidently say that any game that would support Dolby Atmos would not be a 1080p or below title or a retro release benefitting from scanlines. They're going to be your big budget modern AAA titles rendering in 4K or doing so many upscaling tricks you won't want an integer scale anyways. I'd say Mike effectively has 100% coverage if 7.1 LPCM is in.

[EnragedWhale]

Mike has announced on Twitter that he’s working on automatic console and resolution detection. Allowing the RT4K to automatically switch profiles, even during res changes mid game. Super excited about the possibility personally.

Probably won’t make launch though and no chance of a RT5X back port.

[bobrocks95]

Perfect timing as I was shopping for a disgustingly huge HDMI switch to support everything that would feed into a 4K scaler, but now I effectively don't need to HDMI mod several consoles if Mike gets it fully up and running (figure he wouldn't post it if he wasn't confident though).

[EnragedWhale]

Perfect timing as I was shopping for a disgustingly huge HDMI switch to support everything that would feed into a 4K scaler, but now I effectively don't need to HDMI mod several consoles if Mike gets it fully up and running (figure he wouldn't post it if he wasn't confident though).

Yeah I don’t believe he’s ever over promised and under delivered. Always the other way round.

On the subject of HDMI switches, I have one of these bad boys and it’s been flawless for the last year. It’s hidden in my setup so I can’t manually change inputs, so I rely on the auto switching and it has worked perfectly. Gets powered on and off without issue too.

https://amzn.eu/d/5Aj1TiJ

[bobrocks95]

Perfect timing as I was shopping for a disgustingly huge HDMI switch to support everything that would feed into a 4K scaler, but now I effectively don't need to HDMI mod several consoles if Mike gets it fully up and running (figure he wouldn't post it if he wasn't confident though).

Yeah I don’t believe he’s ever over promised and under delivered. Always the other way round.

On the subject of HDMI switches, I have one of these bad boys and it’s been flawless for the last year. It’s hidden in my setup so I can’t manually change inputs, so I rely on the auto switching and it has worked perfectly. Gets powered on and off without issue too.

https://amzn.eu/d/5Aj1TiJ

You're the third or fourth person I've seen recommend the TESmart. Some negative reviews make me wary, and I'd love to get some older name-brand pro gear, but that's plenty of recommendations for the TESmart and I'll never fill all the inputs on it.

[Guspaz]

I've had some trouble feeding the output of my HDMI switch into the RT4K's HDMI input. I have this one:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=39666

and there's something funky going on with EDID where devices connected to the switch input won't send audio through the switch to the RT4K. I haven't done much investigation of the issue (like trying to work around it with a Dr. HDMI), but I guess I'd say, be wary of HDMI switches that mess with EDIDs.

EDIT: I was able to narrow it down to the HDMI switch being overly picky about a specific EDID field so this shouldn't be an issue anymore.

[Josh128]

How the hell do you have an RT4K?

[cfx]

No need to be rude and aggressive.

Ever hear of beta testers?

[DejahThoris]

No need to be rude and aggressive.

Ever hear of beta testers?

No need to be rude, here's a rude question.

[bobrocks95]

If anyone didn't catch it on Twitter, Mike shared pictures of QC testing going on at the factory (and confirmed he got his gray market FPGA prices so they shouldn't be $1000).

Final release info should be coming later this month he said!

[Josh128]

If anyone didn't catch it on Twitter, Mike shared pictures of QC testing going on at the factory (and confirmed he got his gray market FPGA prices so they shouldn't be $1000).

Final release info should be coming later this month he said!

Interesting! Now, about the pricing, "shouldnt be $1000" leaves a lot of wiggle room. Wonder if that means $499, $699, or $899 now. Its pretty clear it needs to be priced very competitively as the OSSC Pro and even the Morph are coming in under $500. Although while on paper it looks like the OSSC pro is not much more capable than the 5X Pro, its the one Im currently the most interested in. Reviews of it should be dropping pretty soon I would imagine, eh?

[SavagePencil]

Did we lose some posts? I could swear Mike posted today, but maybe that was a fever dream.

A fever dream…in…4…K…

[Gara]

Looks like the product page is being setup. It's a work in progress, but it's looking promising. We'll see if that $750 price sticks

Retrotink 4k $750
Morph 4k $500
OSSC Pro $330
Retrotink 5x $325

$750
We will accept orders in early December once units are in inventory.

No preorders needed. Units will begin shipping immediately, but it may take up to 6 weeks to fufill the entire batch

https://www.retrotink.com/product-page/retrotink-4k

https://twitter.com/retrotink2/status/1 ... 91801?s=19

[ZellSF]

750$ is a nice price I feel, the OSSC Pro is much less powerful and the Morph is the first full scaler from PixelFX, you'll save money but there might be some growing pains.

[Josh128]

I know it would have added to the cost, but I think not having a display like the OSSC Pro does was a bit of a missed opportunity. On my Sony HDs, I have to leave the 5x powered up, because if it powers down, it doesnt retain output res setting and comes up in 1080p. Have to blindly punch in the button pattern to get me back to an accepted resolution before I can get a picture.

[tongshadow]

750$ is a nice price I feel, the OSSC Pro is much less powerful and the Morph is the first full scaler from PixelFX, you'll save money but there might be some growing pains.

It's not my intention to start a war between both products, but as a consumer I'd like to know the major differences that justify paying more than double.
As far as I could tell and based on the OSSC Pro's wiki page (https://junkerhq.net//xrgb/index.php?ti ... provements), they're very similar:
-Both can do 4k output (albeit the Pro's is done through line repetition, is this difference significant in practice?)
-Both offer 120hz output and BFI
-Both offer options for CRT masks
-Both offer scaling modes for full compatibility with every display out there
-Only the OSSC Pro has an OLED display
-Only the Tink4k can scale 720p/1080p sources

I'm sure the 4k is more powerful, but in practice the Pro doesnt seem far behind and it's significantly cheaper.

[VEGETA]

750$ is a nice price I feel, the OSSC Pro is much less powerful and the Morph is the first full scaler from PixelFX, you'll save money but there might be some growing pains.

It's not my intention to start a war between both products, but as a consumer I'd like to know the major differences that justify paying more than double.
As far as I could tell and based on the OSSC Pro's wiki page (https://junkerhq.net//xrgb/index.php?ti ... provements), they're very similar:
-Both can do 4k output (albeit the Pro's is done through line repetition, is this difference significant in practice?)
-Both offer 120hz output and BFI
-Both offer options for CRT masks
-Both offer scaling modes for full compatibility with every display out there
-Only the OSSC Pro has an OLED display
-Only the Tink4k can scale 720p/1080p sources

I'm sure the 4k is more powerful, but in practice the Pro doesnt seem far behind and it's significantly cheaper.

well, to my understanding ossc pro is superior to tink 5x for sure. thus, i expect it to be the go-to choice for that price range or for anything less than 4k60.

ossc pro does not do 4k60, thus limited to about 1440p120 or 4k30. crt masks are available for all options and imo are overhyped for no reason... will get so boring and non-practical soon enough as people will choose pre-defined ones downloaded from a website and keep using them. it is just a bmp image layout on top of the video, people can get extra creative by making their own "masks" aka .bmp files and test them. in practical gameplay, you won't find it that much used.

tink4k currently advertised supporting 4k60, inverse-telecine, custom crt masks... ossc pro can have the later 2 easily given enough time.

morph is 500$ which i think good enough while doing everything tink4k does. 750$ for tink4k is a lot of money and can even increase as some people said.

wait until final comparisons happen from reputable youtube sources... despite most of them biased towards tink products but still good indicative content.

my expectation is: ossc pro will be default option overall, replacing tink5x... morph will be the choice for all people requiring 4k60. while tink4k will get small market size for people willing to pay for the little extra that it offers.

finally, thanks to all developers from all 3 sides!

[SavagePencil]

well, to my understanding ossc pro is superior to tink 5x for sure. thus, i expect it to be the go-to choice for that price range or for anything less than 4k60.

ossc pro does not do 4k60, thus limited to about 1440p120 or 4k30. crt masks are available for all options and imo are overhyped for no reason... will get so boring and non-practical soon enough as people will choose pre-defined ones downloaded from a website and keep using them. it is just a bmp image layout on top of the video, people can get extra creative by making their own "masks" aka .bmp files and test them. in practical gameplay, you won't find it that much used.

As has been explained to you before , these aren't "just a bmp image" but code in there. And looking at the wiki page it doesn't look like it does 4K30.

[SGGG2]

It's not my intention to start a war between both products, but as a consumer I'd like to know the major differences that justify paying more than double.

Keep in mind the RT4K hardware was chosen to accommodate future enhancements. Let’s hope Fudoh does a comparison article.

[Josh128]

It's not my intention to start a war between both products, but as a consumer I'd like to know the major differences that justify paying more than double.

-Both can do 4k output (albeit the Pro's is done through line repetition, is this difference significant in practice?)
-Both offer 120hz output and BFI
-Both offer options for CRT masks
-Both offer scaling modes for full compatibility with every display out there
-Only the OSSC Pro has an OLED display
-Only the Tink4k can scale 720p/1080p sources

I'm sure the 4k is more powerful, but in practice the Pro doesnt seem far behind and it's significantly cheaper.

Nothing to do with any of us here, but the war has already started. Serious time and money has gone into each of these, with significant capital invested to begin production. They need to sell or money will be lost-- and they pretty much directly compete with one another.

As far as the 2880x2160 (50-60Hz): 4:3 2160p mode using 2x pixel repetition, the pixel repetition part will probably affect how fine of a mask effect will be available vs non-pixel repetition scaling. Also, its unclear as to what displays will be compatible with this resolution-- some can be quite finicky (my Samsung 4K doesnt accept 1440p at all!). IF this resolution is indeed accepted by a majority of 4K TVs put out by Samsung, Sony, LG, TCL, and Vizio, it will be a huge advantage imo-- because most retro-enthusiasts like me will be looking to upscale 4:3 content anyway. Secondary to that, how the masks are handled in that mode will be important. If it can do both well at a $330 price point, its going to be hard to beat.

All this competition will likely lead to increased pricing pressure on existing products like the RT5X, which is priced pretty closely to the OSSC Pro. Theres no avoiding that.

[bobrocks95]

If you are hesitant and debating what the Tink 4K offers over the OSSC Pro and not finding much that interests you, then it probably isn't worth the price increase. We're flush with options all of a sudden, and they all hit different price points which is great for end users to see.

The Tink 4K's main advantage is undoubtedly Mike's firmware work. Some things I have not seen other scalers showing off yet are rotation, auto cropping, auto phase, auto resolution detection from analog sources, and full HDR color correction for when scanlines/BFI are used.

Could all that come to the other scalers in the future? Maybe! I'm ready for an upgrade now since I've been fed up with the OSSC for years at this point. And by the time others have caught up it's likely that Mike will have put out 3 or 4 other wild features you hadn't thought of. What that's worth to you, you'll have to decide.

Also RE pixel repetition for 4K, I'm set up now to feed widescreen sources like the Xbox 360, PS3, Wii U, PSTV, and Switch to a 4K scaler. For things like the Switch that are 1080p, full 4K support will probably look much sharper than an odd ~1.4x scale to 1440p. But again, maybe 1080p looks perfectly fine to you on your display!

[VEGETA]

well, to my understanding ossc pro is superior to tink 5x for sure. thus, i expect it to be the go-to choice for that price range or for anything less than 4k60.

ossc pro does not do 4k60, thus limited to about 1440p120 or 4k30. crt masks are available for all options and imo are overhyped for no reason... will get so boring and non-practical soon enough as people will choose pre-defined ones downloaded from a website and keep using them. it is just a bmp image layout on top of the video, people can get extra creative by making their own "masks" aka .bmp files and test them. in practical gameplay, you won't find it that much used.

As has been explained to you before , these aren't "just a bmp image" but code in there. And looking at the wiki page it doesn't look like it does 4K30.

I know about that discussion but still mainly it is an overlay work. the mask is what matters not the scanlines. notice that morph is also doing some advanced masks, even customized ones. eventually, no one is paying over 500 usd just to get some mask effects, the product has to give much more.

as for 4k30, i said this since it is in the same hdmi standard as 1440p60 and similar resolutions. no reason why ossc pro can't do it.

[ZellSF]

Not sure why anyone's expecting the RetroTink4K to be best value for your money. The RetroTink5x will be the product for most people, and I think even Mike Chi has more or less said as much?

The biggest question between the OSSC Pro and the Retrotink5x seems to be: do you want composite and s-video or HDMI input?

-Only the Tink4k can scale 720p/1080p sources

Surprised no one reacted to this. I don't think this is true? The OSSC Pro should be able to scale 720p/1080p sources just fine.

[BuckoA51]

It can, so can Morph.

[tongshadow]

It can, so can Morph.

So the OSSC Pro can scale 720p/1080p to 4k right? That makes it even better.

[SavagePencil]

No, the Pro cannot do 4K.