IcyCalm is making a game..

[Skykid]

Icy should be unbanned. He is now forced to post in this barren wasteland called gamengai: http://www.gamengai.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3155

Ok I'm in.

I want a discussion with this guy on his own terms.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

You realize you'd be dealing with someone who wants to define what art is and what art isn't using gross over generalizations and who calls anyone who dares make something he doesn't like as not only "artfags", but "subhumans" (look at how many times he uses the word) and thinks they're dragging down art in general? He's a nutjob, just look at all those later paragraphs where a good 1/4 to 1/2 the words are in ALLCAPS RAGE, and that's just me skimming through it.

I'm all for criticizing individual pieces of 'art' (auctioning a bundle of newspapers you found or painting a toilet seat lid, or anything else that barely has any effort in the work does not in my opinion qualify as good art), but going against games in general that label themselves as art-games without actually addressing the good or bad execution of specific ones smacks of Roger Ebert's whining about how games can't be art because he doesn't like the idea and thinks it's stupid and because he said so it must be true. If there's one thing history's taught us, it's that whether or not something is "art" in general is not something that you can influence readily as an individual by writing long essays about why it is or it isn't. The audiences that actually see/experience that "art" for themselves will collectively make that decision (even if there's not always a general consensus, there rarely is in life when it comes to art!).

Icycalm: "And the reason GP doesn't need it is because he is an uneducated retard who neither reads nor thinks"
Icycalm: "You are an imbecile, piss off"

Say it with me: PSYYYYYCHOLOGICAL PROJECTION, yay!

[KAI]

Game is good/shit cause philosophy LOL

[Skykid]

Ha ha.

I actually thought I'd be reasonable and offer him a discussion on his own preferred subject and writings.

It was a one time offer, now expired. He replied within two and a half minutes of me posting, so he doesn't actually read opposing arguments.

Now the guns come out.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Just post this delicious link there, see what his attention whoring gets him:

http://icycalmisacriminal.wordpress.com ... -criminal/

Or:

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource. ... g=fraud22m

Zyrmpas' professors at the UW said they had no clue of his alleged wrongdoing. Uri Shumlak, an assistant professor of Aeronautics and Astronautics, recounted that "Antony worked for me for about six months" starting in January 2000. The UW registrar's office records show that Zyrmpas attended school from January 2000 through March 2001. He did not earn a degree, the office said.

Charging papers assert that Zyrmpas was on academic probation at the time he withdrew from the UW. In addition, because he was in the U.S. on a student visa, Zyrmpas was in the country illegally after he withdrew from school, charging papers state.

Court papers in King County Superior Court show that last March, Zyrmpas was evicted from his University District apartment for nonpayment of rent. Former roommates obtained personal-restraint petitions against Zyrmpas last year after he allegedly threatened them, court records show.

So much for that Aerospace engineer thing, LOL. If there's anything icy can be proud of, it's being such a huge fuckup that anyone can look at him and feel better about their own life.

[jepjepjep]

I am the number 1 videogame and art theorist in the world.

Does anyone here know icycalm in real life? I can't help but wonder if this internet persona is just a shock jock tactic to try to drum up internet traffic. For his own sake, I hope he doesn't actually believe all of the megalomaniacal nonsense that he spouts.

[wiNteR]

It would be interesting to see how many times "art is games" phrase was used before icycalm described it. As I understand, any given artform is then defined as some sub-set of games.

Same is the case with many other ideas that were not described or identified before. I think it is good to give credit where it's due.

GaijinPunch wrote:
Am I the only one here that doesn't need any philosophy with their games?

Before I completed a philosophy degree I woulda said "pfft"
Now...I am with ya man, 110%. Well, at the best I would keep them widely separated.

I don't see it that way at all! I am no academic though.

Certainly I don't mean that good philosophy can't be done without using the word "game" (of course not). What I mean is that I see the notion of a game as an essential bridge between imaginary and real. So, in this sense, I do see it as an essential concept to provide a zero point for describing general ideas. Otherwise, you could just keep going in circles forever.

[austere]

I'm expecting many old faces to come out of retirement for this one.

Guilty as charged. This saga has been rather entertaining, I would normally bow out of the slugfest -- I'm on intermission away from hell on Earth. Nevertheless, here goes, I have missed a lot of you guys after all.

First off, with all due respect, you guys should seriously consider unbanning icycalm. Given that so many posters are calling him every name under the sun and the internet is a place where everyone can read each other's open forums, why keep the ruse going? Isn't it a bit unhealthy? It's not like EITHER of your forums are sacred grounds. Will it create drama? Sometimes a burning skyline is far more interesting than a run-down abandoned down town, however short-lived that fire may be. Besides who knows, if so many of the people on here didn't act like in a foolish or immature manner (as sadly the majority of this forum tends to do -- let's face it, it's an online video game forum so it isn't exactly an anomaly), nor used such abrasive attitudes with people they disagree with, PERHAPS a civilised discourse could be the result? It's much harder for someone to walk into a room with people behaving in a respectful manner with each other and act in a less-than-polite way. In short, I think it is best to try and bury the hatchet.

Now, regarding icycalm developing a game... heh. I will agree that it is unlikely he will see it to completion himself. No one who isn't privy to the game design can really comment on its quality, but my gut feeling is it will be something new and fun. Perhaps even the best gahem everz, lel. That simply isn't enough.

As he has acknowledged in both his actions and his own words, icycalm acts like an asshole. I won't hold it against him, I respect a lot of assholes and their contributions to the world, but intelligent and productive people won't work with assholes out of their own will. It is just far too difficult, they tend to be personally destructive and hold those working alongside them with very little regard. In truth, icycalm has generally been constructive, obviously. Even the various gags and trolling threads he's played against his detractors has been entertaining, you could call it creative destruction I suppose, not that there is a difference. But with people, and association (albeit mostly online), he has been extremely destructive, deriving his creation from those he attacks and consumes.

Unfortunately, to create this game, with his ambitions and modus operandi, he will have to destroy far too many people working alongside him to see it to completion. Especially for the limited resources at his command. If he had enough resources, it'll probably be the best game ever, or whatever, but he's no Howard Hughes even if this is his "Hell's angels". If he was and thus commanded enough power, he'd have John Carmack working for him whether he wants to or not. But he doesn't even need John Carmack to complete the game he wants to. All he needs is his iron will, his single vision and a bottomless pit of money. Something he lacks, otherwise he wouldn't be looking for a publisher nor using a kickstarter at some point in time. Anyway, I'm sure someone will pick the idea up after he gets bored with it and those little pamphlets he's going to be sending out spread around, lol. So it isn't a question whether he can or cannot "deliver". Nor is it a matter of the game being released without meeting the final design (i.e. slowly converging to it, release by release). The point is it won't be icycalm finishing it thus it won't truly be his own vision of the game.

We have to face it in the end. Life is a war, for some quite literally, and business (game making) is merely a component of that war. It's all good to observe tragedy and live life out in both strife and pleasure, in solitude as a scholar, but the rules change when you want to move the world at your command. You can't do much with only an army of zealots. To command a more effective army takes a leader, not a philosopher. To change at his age, well, I won't call it impossible but it is certainly something he doesn't even want to do. I knew this from the first time I encountered him and I'm willing to bet a kilogram of pure silver that I'm right. I'm rarely ever wrong about these things -- but I'm happy to be proven wrong.

[Xyga]

GaijinPunch wrote:
Am I the only one here that doesn't need any philosophy with their games?

You fagot n00b will never understand the greatness Xenogears. It's a game for N°1 nietzschean aeronotics engineers.

[dcharlie]

Gamengai thread - I love it when Shou gets involved.

[Skykid]

Gamengai thread - I love it when Shou gets involved.

I'm taking that as an insult.

[drauch]

First off, with all due respect, you guys should seriously consider unbanning icycalm. Given that so many posters are calling him every name under the sun and the internet is a place where everyone can read each other's open forums, why keep the ruse going? Isn't it a bit unhealthy? It's not like EITHER of your forums are sacred grounds. Will it create drama? Sometimes a burning skyline is far more interesting than a run-down abandoned down town, however short-lived that fire may be. Besides who knows, if so many of the people on here didn't act like in a foolish or immature manner (as sadly the majority of this forum tends to do -- let's face it, it's an online video game forum so it isn't exactly an anomaly), nor used such abrasive attitudes with people they disagree with, PERHAPS a civilised discourse could be the result? It's much harder for someone to walk into a room with people behaving in a respectful manner with each other and act in a less-than-polite way. In short, I think it is best to try and bury the hatchet.
.

What is civilized about garbage philosophy and "fagot" between a slur of hyphens and colons? The dude gets called every name under the sun because, well... he's a prick, and he wants you to know it. He lives for arrogance and insipid arguments without logic, and he carries that attitude to every forum, regardless of how "mature" people are. It's not like everyone decided one day to just hate the guy for some arbitrary reason. Amiable arguments about the forum subject (video games) is always welcome, and we all probably enjoy it to some extent, because that's how discussion remains interesting and fresh. Forced respect would be an anomaly in itself, which can't be covered up with metaphors about burning skylines and components of war.

[GaijinPunch]

Gamengai thread - I love it when Shou gets involved.

I'm taking that as an insult.

OUCH!

[Snake]

Unban a wanted criminal so that he can call people "fagots" and spam "I understand [German philosopher] better than you" for half a day before being banned again.

[Udderdude]

.

[system11]

First off, with all due respect, you guys should seriously consider unbanning icycalm.

There's zero chance of this happening unless he radically changes as a human being - he got much worse after he left. Then there's that whole fraud thing of course. Is it socially acceptable to steal peoples money? I'd venture to suggest that it is not.

[Udderdude]

.

[Squire Grooktook]

Now, regarding icycalm developing a game... heh. I will agree that it is unlikely he will see it to completion himself. No one who isn't privy to the game design can really comment on its quality, but my gut feeling is it will be something new and fun. Perhaps even the best gahem everz, lel. That simply isn't enough.

I'm willing to bet you 100 zillion internet bux that it'll be an incoherent mess that's impossible to actually make, even if he did have an army of developers and money coming out of his ass.

It'll probably be like a bad and insane webcomic in video game form.

[Ed Oscuro]

AND MAKE SOEM VIDYA

...this isn't even to the sanity level of the Zybourne Clock.

[DJ Incompetent]

Now, regarding icycalm developing a game... heh. I will agree that it is unlikely he will see it to completion himself. No one who isn't privy to the game design can really comment on its quality, but my gut feeling is it will be something new and fun. Perhaps even the best gahem everz, lel. That simply isn't enough.

I'm willing to bet you 100 zillion internet bux that it'll be an incoherent mess that's impossible to actually make, even if he did have an army of developers and money coming out of his ass.

It'll probably be like a bad and insane webcomic in video game form.

Maybe it already came out?

[austere]

Unban a wanted criminal so that he can call people "fagots" and spam "I understand [German philosopher] better than you" for half a day before being banned again.

The point I was trying to make is that you guys are communicating with him anyway... why keep the ruse going? Just unban him and get the thread locked earlier than it will usually be locked, only for another thread to be created later down the line. I mean you can always ban him again as well.

Another forum (selectbutton) ban even the mention of icycalm in order to stop this cross-forum communication from going. That's quite childish in my opinion and not in a good way.

There's zero chance of this happening unless he radically changes as a human being - he got much worse after he left.

Hmmm put yourself in his perspective, he's been insulted and dismissed from so many internet forums that he has become a mirror for everything awful he's encountered. Which is a shame, I doubt he will or can change. I really wish he'd stop being an asshole, but its part of who he is now, even if it started out as pretence at some stage.

"If someone obstinately and for a long time wants to appear something it is in the end hard for him to be anything else." ~ icy's favourite guy ever

Then there's that whole fraud thing of course. Is it socially acceptable to steal peoples money? I'd venture to suggest that it is not.

Yeah, I suppose if you don't want scammers posting on here, it's a tough call. But it's not like he's going to be using the trade forum, right? Anyway it was just a suggestion, thanks for discussing it.

[Mischief Maker]

If bad ideas are a disease there are two potential cures:

Scrutiny is like an antibiotic. Harmless to good ideas, devastating to bad ones.

Censorship is like chemotherapy.

[austere]

I'm willing to bet you 100 zillion internet bux that it'll be an incoherent mess that's impossible to actually make, even if he did have an army of developers and money coming out of his ass.

The hard part is if he's really going for something ambitious, he won't be absolutely sure about what's right or wrong with it until he's running the first prototype. That could take a million years and 1000 zillion internet bux. Perhaps what he really needs to do is help stage a coup in some east European country then use its resources to finish off his game, lol.

Forced respect would be an anomaly in itself, which can't be covered up with metaphors about burning skylines and components of war.

The status quo might very well be a foregone conclusion but look at how the people unfamiliar with that saga perceived it in this thread: the whole forum ganging up on one guy. Even GaijinPunch said he was trying to get a rise out of him back then. You have to admit, he used to be polite to people online. That said, I'll leave the possibility open that he was suppressing his true nature during that time.

[BulletMagnet]

Scrutiny is like an antibiotic. Harmless to good ideas, devastating to bad ones.

Unfortunately, when improperly applied it leads to the adaptation of "super bad ideas" which require higher dosages to treat.

[DMC]

Can't we make him a moderator as well?

That would change things here.

[Mischief Maker]

Scrutiny is like an antibiotic. Harmless to good ideas, devastating to bad ones.

Unfortunately, when improperly applied it leads to the adaptation of "super bad ideas" which require higher dosages to treat.

Also known as "pseudointellecutalism"

Let's not miss the most glaring detail of this whole project. Ultimately he's making an art game.

However, he will be moving the subgenre forward because his art game won't be about childhood phobias, cancer, or breaking up with your girlfriend.

[Squire Grooktook]

Maybe it already came out?

...

goty

[dcharlie]

Gamengai thread - I love it when Shou gets involved.

I'm taking that as an insult.

haha

anyways, it's fun because he genuinely doesn't care and (whenever he come aginst the Icy, Recap types of the world) it's amusing because he's done pretty much everything to the top of the subject matter. He doesn't need to get involved - so can sit on the sidelines laughing at the whole show

[Ed Oscuro]

Ultimately he's making an art game.

Not really, unless you call Internet Shenanigans a performance art. Well, I mean, if you want to give him the benefit of the most positive reading sure - but we can't kid ourselves; even if he had a good team he would immediately destroy it.

anyways, it's fun because he genuinely doesn't care and (whenever he come aginst the Icy, Recap types of the world) it's amusing because he's done pretty much everything to the top of the subject matter. He doesn't need to get involved - so can sit on the sidelines laughing at the whole show

I like how this is the anti-Icy at work. Still sitting at the sidelines, except with a good conscience and preferably less time spent angrily banging out theses on a keyboard.

[Udderdude]

.