Another day, another shooting in the US

[CMoon]

We have that.

It's called Nerf.

LOL how do you hunt a deer with fucking nerf?

[Skykid]

I don't see a reason we need the right to bear lethal force. I mean, it's the 21st century where non-metrosexual men twitter/facebook while having rounds at the bar, certainly we can develop a non-lethal surrogate for the gun lovers.

A perfectly acceptable idea. I think a step down from Tazers is a good idea (they're lethal too, in the wrong hands), so it's high time for a Star Trek stun gun.

[robivy64]

Or how about the gun from Bonanza Bros?

Sega knew what they were doing.

[undamned]

My most moronic contribution to this thread:

What we, as a species, really need is some kind of non-destructive/non-lethal firearm that americans can have the right to bear. I don't just mean tasers, coz those aren't going to help overthrow the government, but more like those phasers from star trek. Perhaps some sort of sonic weapon, or even microwaves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_note

http://www.techchee.com/2008/03/13/soni ... tch-sound/

-ud

[neorichieb1971]

Wonders (in %) how guns are used for the wrong reasons before the right reasons in the USA?

Don't most gun owning Americans just put them on the mantle piece, lock them up in a closet or display cabinet?

The only time I saw any kind of legal reason for owning guns was in the movie tremors. Did you see how many guns that guy had? If that was your stereotypical mother and father role model America would be fucking awesome. In a twisted way of course.

[DrTrouserPlank]

Wonders (in %) how guns are used for the wrong reasons before the right reasons in the USA?

Don't most gun owning Americans just put them on the mantle piece, lock them up in a closet or display cabinet?

The only time I saw any kind of legal reason for owning guns was in the movie tremors. Did you see how many guns that guy had? If that was your stereotypical mother and father role model America would be fucking awesome. In a twisted way of course.

I'm fairly certain that a lot of gun owners are trying to compensate massively in some way for their own inadequacies. Possibly even their shriveled genitals. Waddling around with a gun whilst swilling beer must make you feel like a real badass in front of your friends. The trouble is that if you need a gun to make you feel that way then you probably aren't as tough as you think.

The whole argument about guns being for protection is nonsense, and that taking them away is removing your "freedom" and liberty". I imagine that it must be rather unsettling to live in a world where just about anyone could walk up behind you and blow you away before you've even seen them. That is taking away your freedom and makes the defensive argument completely void. Even as a mutual deterrent they don't work, or at least certainly not in the case of this kid who went on a rampage. What threat is pointing a gun at someone who is going to shoot himself anyway.?

[neorichieb1971]

There is one undocumented reason why having guns in America is a good thing!

Cops and robbers movies wouldn't be the same. Imagine HEAT without guns.


I know its a crazy theory, but I felt that Roswell 47 was about the same thing. It spawned so many alien movies it made Hollywood billions overnight. Same for Area 51. Just having something mysterious and unresolved makes money for someone.

People love watching Americans shoot Americans. If foreigners get involved, all the better. (in the movies I mean).

[DrTrouserPlank]

You kind of imagine that the American pro-gun lobby will conclude that the reason this happened is because the children didn't have guns. We should lower the age at which you can buy guns to 3.

There's nothing that can't be solved by having more guns.

GUNS!!

[neorichieb1971]

LOL. Did you mention GUNS!

[DragonInstall]

Man you Europeans keep circle jerking yourselves.

[robivy64]

[DrTrouserPlank]

Man you Europeans keep circle jerking yourselves.

It's got to be better than mowing down toddlers with automatic weapons?

I don't know how guns and gun ownership is introduced to children in the States. Given that your country is idealistically blind to the rest of the world, and patriotic in the way that it celebrates it's roots (although there is nothing wrong with that at all), I assume that children learn about the foundations of the USA in school and have beaten into them via some sort of doctrine the "right to bear arms" from an early age as if this is "normal" in civilised democratic societies, of which you are one by all estimations. I have this horrible image of young children reciting the constitution in school as if it's some holy teaching that is absolute in it's verse. I suspect that this is actually not too far from the truth one way or another.

When the vast majority of democratic, reasonable nations in the world, not blighted by the mental illness of religion, have a view diametrically opposed to yours when it comes to gun ownership, you have to surely stop and consider whether your policy is compatible with the modern world, whether it is relevant, and ultimately whether it is right?

[KAI]

Blaming the education instead of blaming a violent society? first thing first please.

[DrTrouserPlank]

Blaming the education instead of blaming a violent society? first thing first please.

I'm not blaming education directly; just questioning it's role in their culture. However, I don't believe that normal innocent toddlers are innately predisposed towards violence; so one has to search for the reasons that school shootings keep happening, and despite the repeated attempts to paint the shooter as a "loner" and "unhinged" the common factor in spite of this seems to be the ready availability of powerful automatic and semi-automatic firearms.

In terms of a violent society though you raise an interesting point. Following this rampage I foresee stronger action being taken to curb the proliferation of violent video games than I do to curb the proliferation of guns and their inexorably embedded role in American culture.

One has to question whether the biggest problem is the means via which these fantasist's practice their trade (supposedly) or whether it is the tools which facilitate them.

[KAI]

Shmups where you shoot candies and flowers instead of bullets and bomb. That would be a good start.

I think the problem lies in their social structure.
I don't like to generalize, but this is a society that praise the use of violence to solve problems. It's simple, if you put guns in this kind of societies, they'll kill each other.

[Specineff]

To those saying that guns can be bought in the street as easily as you could one of those cheap wallets or watches

Precisely, if guns are made harder to get crazy people won't have the opportunity to buy one on a whim and start mass murdering.

Right. Just like laws that forbid to drive without a license, or on a suspended license entirely prevent people from doing so and getting into traffic accidents, and the requirements on prescription drugs have entirely eradicated oxycontin abuse, and how I can't get bootleg DVDs at the street market due to those FBI warnings at the beginning of movies.

[O. Van Bruce]

this debate has become sterile because one stance isn't defended anymore. At least not with serious arguments... Unless Ed Oscuro developed some defence and I didn't understand.

and yeah, stop circlejerking until someone put a good argument in favor of easy acces of fire arms

[DrTrouserPlank]

To those saying that guns can be bought in the street as easily as you could one of those cheap wallets or watches

Precisely, if guns are made harder to get crazy people won't have the opportunity to buy one on a whim and start mass murdering.

Right. Just like laws that forbid to drive without a license, or on a suspended license entirely prevent people from doing so and getting into traffic accidents, and the requirements on prescription drugs have entirely eradicated oxycontin abuse, and how I can't get bootleg DVDs at the street market due to those FBI warnings at the beginning of movies.

Your defense seems to be that people will always break the law so what's the point of making laws?

This is an utterly ridiculous standpoint regardless of the issue being debated.

[BulletMagnet]

You kind of imagine that the American pro-gun lobby will conclude that the reason this happened is because the children didn't have guns. We should lower the age at which you can buy guns to 3.

The teachers at the school have already been criticized for not packing heat in their classrooms.

[Specineff]

Your defense seems to be that people will always break the law so what's the point of making laws?

This is an utterly ridiculous standpoint regardless of the issue being debated.

I'm debating the point of believing that simply outlawing something will be the panacea that will fix all problems brought by that something. It isn't.

[CStarFlare]

I'm debating the point of believing that simply outlawing something will be the panacea that will fix all problems brought by that something. It isn't.

Outlawing those things you mentioned don't make them go away, but they provide a powerful (and probably effective) disincentive to do them. People who haven't already developed an addiction to oxy are less likely to go through the effort to obtain more illegally; bootleg DVDs don't crowd legitimate ones off store shelves. People without licenses probably drive less frequently and try to avoid attention so as to not get caught. Outlawing something (guns, in this case) also allows the police to remove them from circulation when discovered, without waiting for them to be used in a crime.

I don't think a flat ban on firearms is strictly necessary (or even possible in our country), but I don't think people who would advocate it have somewhat reasonable expectations about how effective such a policy would be. It won't fix all the problems guns cause today, but guns are the chosen weapon in so many killings because they're generally the best weapon to use. I have serious doubts whether the Sandy Hook shooter would have done anything at all if he didn't have guns to fall back on - most other methods are too up close and personal, and there are reports that he's the kind of guy who tended to physically flee from human contact.

[BulletMagnet]

Oh, and to amend my previous post, the kids should have been taught to bum-rush the shooter.

[rapoon]

You kind of imagine that the American pro-gun lobby will conclude that the reason this happened is because the children didn't have guns. We should lower the age at which you can buy guns to 3.

The teachers at the school have already been criticized for not packing heat in their classrooms.

already discussions in N Texas of arming certain teachers with concealed guns. "air marshals in the classroom". fucking crazy

I support the re-implementation of the assault weapons ban but I believe it will do very little. Unless you're a modest gun enthusiast (as I briefly was. I own a CZ 40p and GSG 522) it's difficult to fathom
how popular the AR-15 is and how many of them are out there. *something* needs to be done but I can't think of much that hasn't already been said. There was an excellent article on CNN
discussing the severe alienation, societal problem in the United States in comparison to several other countries with lenient gun control.

[Hagane]

Right. Just like laws that forbid to drive without a license, or on a suspended license entirely prevent people from doing so and getting into traffic accidents, and the requirements on prescription drugs have entirely eradicated oxycontin abuse, and how I can't get bootleg DVDs at the street market due to those FBI warnings at the beginning of movies.

I agree, we should abolish all laws. I'm sure that will have a positive impact on crime.

[CMoon]

My most moronic contribution to this thread:

What we, as a species, really need is some kind of non-destructive/non-lethal firearm that americans can have the right to bear. I don't just mean tasers, coz those aren't going to help overthrow the government, but more like those phasers from star trek. Perhaps some sort of sonic weapon, or even microwaves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_note

http://www.techchee.com/2008/03/13/soni ... tch-sound/

-ud

I demand the right to 'pack' the 'brown note' gun.

Sorry to be stealing GP's show here, that's totally a line he would say.

[Kiel]

It's got to be better than mowing down toddlers with automatic weapons?

I keep hearing automatic weapons and machine guns, which were not used and which are not available.

Also, and hear me out guys, what if the shooter who committed this crime was blamed for his actions?

[Kiel]

I agree, we should abolish all laws. I'm sure that will have a positive impact on crime.

You might be on to something, if we ban all laws nothing would be illegal...

[mesh control]

http://chrisuggen.blogspot.com/2012/12/ ... um=twitter


blah, blah, blah.

[undamned]

Also, and hear me out guys, what if the shooter who committed this crime was blamed for his actions?

Dun dun DUUUUUUNNNN!!!
-ud

[Specineff]

I agree, we should abolish all laws. I'm sure that will have a positive impact on crime.

Or maybe realize that some people will still find a way around those laws and prohibitions, and that expecting an outright ban in guns to keep shootings from happening, like some think, is unrealistic.