SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

[blizzz]

Does anyone own a APU-01 SFC that has good video output? Mine has pretty bad lines in the image and I remember someone else on here who also had problems with that revision.

[ZellSF]

Why do you think finding another specific SNES model would be easier? 1CHIP models aren't exactly rare, the problem is you can't tell from the outside wether or not it's a 1CHIP, but that applies to all SNES models.

Because serial numbers. That's why.

Except for numbers that are on the edge, you can absolutely use that.

I would think finding serial numbers is the challenge. When I got a 1CHIP I had to ask several eBay sellers what the serial number on the console they were selling was. The same would be equally challenging for non-1CHIP revisions.

[Einzelherz]

Unless you found the first model with the mirror-silver sticker on the underside. I'd wager that most of those are SHVCs.

[mvsfan]

when I ordered some more nesrgb kits i also ordered a component board to try in my SNES.

Im going to install it tomorrow.

[borti4938]

Does anyone own a APU-01 SFC that has good video output? Mine has pretty bad lines in the image and I remember someone else on here who also had problems with that revision.

I do have such a SFC.
I observed that problem on ALL SFC units with dedicated S-CPU and S-PPUs in combination with an S-RGB, i.e. with SNS-CPU-RGB-01/02 and SNS-CPU-APU-01 boards.
Even bypassing the S-RGB with a THS7314 hasn't resolved my problem yet. My guess is that lifting pin 27 of the S-PPU2 (5.37MHz out to the expansion port) could resolve the problem as this clock signal acts as an interferer over the whole SNES mainboard. However, I haven't tried it as my SNS-CPU-APU-01 is not the SNES I play that much (nearly never - it's just present in my showcase).

[Blair]

question for users here.

I have two SNES consoles, a UN22 model and a UN23. the video video quality on both is very different. on the UN22 the picture is very soft, S-video and RGB look almost exactly the same. on the UN23 S-video is sharper and RGB looks even better.

(both systems tested on a PVM-14m2u, PVM-20L5, and a DVDO VP50pro+SONY Multiscan CPD-E400)

is this normal? why do they have such wildly different video output?

[Guspaz]

Is the UN23 a 1-chip? IIRC they are missing a low-pass filter on the output which results in a sharper image.

[Blair]

Is the UN23 a 1-chip? IIRC they are missing a low-pass filter on the output which results in a sharper image.

it can't be a 1-chip, those don't show up until at least UN29 right?

[Guspaz]

I guess it's unlikely... There are minor differences in quality between the non-1chip, but it really is a very very tiny difference in any comparison I've seen.

Are you using the same cables on both consoles?

[Blair]

I guess it's unlikely... There are minor differences in quality between the non-1chip, but it really is a very very tiny difference in any comparison I've seen.

Are you using the same cables on both consoles?

of course.

Hori S-video cable (imported)

Retro_console_accessories Coaxial RGB Scart cable. (C-Sync)

I've heard of Some SNES Consoles having really blurry output, but I did not expect it to be this drastic, some people have suggested that a YPbPr video mod can give you a much sharper video-out on models with blurry RGB, but I don't know if that is true. (has anyone tested that?)

[blizzz]

To generate YPbPr you would use the RGB video. So no, component won't help to clarify the picture if RGB is already flawed.

[Blair]

To generate YPbPr you would use the RGB video. So no, component won't help to clarify the picture if RGB is already flawed.

I thought some SNES models had a video encoder that natively output YPbPr, unless you mean using an RGB to YUV converter box (CSY-2100). yeah, in that case the video would still look much the same.

[Einzelherz]

It would be interesting to find out what chipsets they each use, and if they're different. That is, if you have any desire to open them.

[blizzz]

I thought some SNES models had a video encoder that natively output YPbPr

Huh, you're right. I did not know that.

[Blair]

It would be interesting to find out what chipsets they each use, and if they're different. That is, if you have any desire to open them.

I don't think I have the right socket screwdriver to open them (i'll have to order some).

I thought some SNES models had a video encoder that natively output YPbPr

Huh, you're right. I did not know that.

I hear its a really easy mod, I might give it a try when I have some time. (unless you know some around here that does them?)

[CkRtech]

Tapping the YPbPr from a SNES did produce a component image for me when I tried it, however it had a bit of a washed out look to it. I believe I tried it with extra components (220uf cap + 75ohm resistor), but I cannot remember. Maybe it is time to try it again. Michael Moffitt (recently became a user on shmups, actually) has a webpage dedicated to it. His was the original source from when I messed with component in... 2012(?), but it looks like the website changed a bit since I last saw it. http://mikejmoffitt.com/articles/0014-snesypbpr.html

[mvsfan]

I just finished putting the NESRGB component board into my 1-Chip-03 SNES. It was a success, and it does look much better than the same snes going through my CSY2100 Clone.

and Because of that neat component breakout cable that came with that kit i only had to drill 1 hole in the console.

Also, the CSY i think shifts all my consoles over about 1" and i have a border on the left side of the screen.

the component kit on both my nes and snes eliminated that picture shift.

Now Im starting to think about other systems. Is it possible to put one in a Saturn?

[Blair]

question for everyone here,

does this look like it could be a 1chip?

[CkRtech]

With a serial number like that, it is probably a refurb. You could look inside at the cart slot instead to see if there is black plastic at the base near the sides (possible 1CHIP) or not.

[Blair]

hmmm, ok. I guess I won't bother with it then.

thanks!

[mvsfan]

There are 2 stickers on that console. It was definately refurbished by nintendo.

800s can be anything from Shvcs all way to 1-chip. you just have to open it up and see.

[Shoryukev]

It is amazing to me the difference in video quality between different SNES units. I have an older near-launch unit and a 1-chip2 and even just using s-video on a 32" trinitron consumer CRT the results are wildly different. These two pictures are taken from the same TV with the same s-video cable swapped between the two systems. Even if you don't have an RGB monitor the results are shocking.

[mvsfan]

It is an amazing difference. Mabeye in the future someone might work on an Fpga based Video board to increase the video quality of the regular multi chip snes models.

[blizzz]

What exactly is the difference in these pictures? The brightness difference is from the camera I assume. If not then there's probably something wrong with one of the consoles.

[Einzelherz]

What exactly is the difference in these pictures? The brightness difference is from the camera I assume. If not then there's probably something wrong with one of the consoles.

That was my thought as well. One appears to have just aged significantly more.

[Shoryukev]

The brightness difference was there in person too, I thought it was weird but assumed it was part of the magic of the 1-chip I had read so much about LOL. Could be that something is just really wrong with the other console...I have no idea. I've had that old one for about 15-20 years and it's been through several moves. Maybe the old one needs to be re-capped or something.

[Shoryukev]

One thing I do know that leads me to think the old one needs new capacitors is the effect of the vertical stripe of bright colors in the middle of the screen SNES's are notorious for (especially on the final fantasy 3 title screen) is REALLY prominent with that one. I'll have to take it apart when I get the chance and see if I notice anything obviously messed up.....it's just been packed away in the basement with my other spare console stuff since I got the 1-chip system so I haven't put that much thought into it.

[mvsfan]

I Recap almost every Snes I run across because almost all of them badly need it.

A good way to tell if your caps are leaking is to take a look at the surface mount pads under the cap.
If the cap isnt leaking the pads will be nice and shiny.

If it is leaking usually the pads will be dull and have a crust on them.

[Shoryukev]

It's a good practice to get into, the older these systems get the more they need it. My genesis was re-capped by it's previous owner....I haven't attempted one myself yet but I'm warming to the idea. I'm still getting used to soldering to all the small contact points that are in these consoles. I work on music equipment (guitars/amps mainly) all the time, but there's nothing that small inside any of it so I'm not used to it LOL.

I'll look for the dull/crusty surface mount pads, along with my usual "look for the bulge" thing. If I see a bunch I might use this old system as a guinea pig for building up my repair skills

[blizzz]

In preparation of testing the OSSC I tried to get the capture of my Framemeister right. One step was to compare the brightness levels of a 1CHIP vs a 3-chip console, since recently people have been saying that 1CHIP consoles are too bright. At least for my consoles that's not true, I get the exact same brightness from both consoles. But it reminded me again of how abysmal my APU-01 console's video output is.

Just have a look at this: 1CHIP-02 vs APU-01 (cables, PSU, settings and processing are the same)