Castlevania Miscellanies

[Skykid]

Well I consider Chronicles arrange to be harder than VK, would you agree with that. It's really difficult, but I'd be interested to see how you guys grade the Dracula games in difficulty terms. To make it simpler, only take into account classic Vanias, and my list from hardest to easiest would look something like this (keep in mind I haven't done original CV and CVIII, so they're not included).

As some are equal I think, I've just ranked them with the same number:

1:
Castlevania Chronicles X68k

2:
Castlevania Rebirth (only because of the last stage)

3:
Castlevania Chronicles arrange

4:
Rondo of Blood
Castlevania XX (SFC)

5:
Castlevania Adventure (GB)
Castlevania IV
Castlevania Adventure 2 (GB)

6:
Vampire Killer

7:
Castlevania Legends

Just a rough approximation based on memory, but I'd be interested to see some of your lists.

[BIL]

The only ones I really rate as difficult, as in "holy crap am I up for this or should I put on SOTN instead" are CVIII (not Akumajou Densetsu) and X68k/C.Original. Both have some intense level designs with very little margin for error, coupled with player characters on the weaker side of the traditional games.

All the other traditional console Draculas (I, IV, Rondo and VK) have enough wriggle room and exploitable things that these days I only find them very challenging if going for a one-life clear. I do love them, it's just that I've played the hell out of them all. I would put Rondo at the front of this pack for the suprisingly mean damage scale that can make mistakes painful, but its Item Crash and uneven difficulty curve also make it the most breakable.

XX isn't any harder than those four, but it's boring and handles miserably, so it's a form of extra challenge I suppose.

[CIT]

I actually find XX the hardest, simply because of the agonizing final boss.

[BIL]

XX's last boss is definitely a huge asterisk to take into account. I find it a test of patience, mainly... then again I use the boomerang. Hagane pointed out either in this topic or elsewhere that axes will make short work of the second form and its massive sprite, I'd like to try that out sometime.

[Hagane]

Yup, axes hit him twice and make his life go down down down very fast.

[BIL]

With the VK posts, I just realised why IV's controls are annoying me a bit on this latest no-miss quest. >_< In VK you tap the button for a fast, light attack, and hold it for a slow heavy one. Former's for smacking pests and projectiles, latter is for immobilising and demolishing heavy targets. Logical, and I'm used to this from a misspent youth of hardcore AKI N64 wrestling gaming. Want to bust a motherfucker's face open like a sledgehammer on a melon? Hold that button yo! (just know that he might counter and armbar the fuck outta you! *crack* "arrrgh!" *tapout* dingdingding)

In IV it's the exact opposite - tap the button for a studly crack of the whip. Hold it for a floppy limp dick that can't even kill a bat. If you're touching the pad, the floppiness kicks in near-instantly. No likey. >w<

COTM's idea (tap for normal, hold for spinny pest n' projectile-twatting action) is so much better. If you're gonna go floppy, at least swing it around vigorously!

[Skykid]

I actually find XX the hardest, simply because of the agonizing final boss.

That's the only reason I ranked it where I did. Not so tough otherwise, but replaying the last stage to get a crack at that dick boss is seriously irritating.
Similay to Rebirth - game is a breeze until the last stage. What were they thinking!

Yup, axes hit him twice and make his life go down down down very fast.

I think axes is the only best method there is - just gotta make sure you get them during the stage and enough hearts to make it work.

[SuperDeadite]

I never understood why people consider X68K version to be "very difficult." The game is quite moderate imo. Your hit box is very forgiving, you can rub noses with enemies and not get hit. You have a 5 directional whip which gives you a good amount of extra range when used properly. During boss fights, you can freely touch the bosses, you only get damaged by actual boss attacks. And the fight with Death is stupidly easy as he doesn't get invincibility frames so you can just pound on him with the cross...

Now if you are going for a whip-only run things get a bit harder, but for a normal clear I found the game quite forgiving. The most challenging part is probably the fight with She-Wolf, and it's one of the best fights in the entire series imo, perfectly designed. I've beaten all 6 loops on 1 credit, and the only part that ever worries me are those damn ninja-maids at the end, they are the only enemies you have to be perfect on.

Now when I play, I play on my actual XVI (16mhz while the game was designed for 10mhz), which seems to run a bit smoother then the time I've played with the PS1 version, might be in my head though. However X68K is 31khz native, while the PS1 of course doesn't output in that.

[BIL]

It was the damage scale from halfway in and the clock tower's stairs and falling gears that mostly bothered me the last time I was playing regularly. But you're right, there are a lot of things in the player's favour as well. It's probably been too long for me to accurately compare it to the others, actually. It's by far the one I've played the least over the last couple of years since I got back into the series.

Not sure if the PS1 version is significantly different, as it's the only one I've played. It never seemed broken to me in any regard, I managed a couple loops without perceiving any technical problems. Can totally imagine things seeming off compared to an actual X68k, though.

I'm probably underrating the original game's difficulty a bit too. It's drastically easier when you know how to break the last few bosses and stages. I still can't kill Franky or Death consistently without a subweapon (I do enjoy trying though, so random and punishing). And the last stage's clock tower can become a total clusterfuck if you don't have a good route worked out. The one thing that never gets any easier is Dracula's first form and its fast, totally unpredictable teleporting, a menacing feature I wish the later games had kept.

[SuperDeadite]

Well yes 4 hits and you die, but if that bothers you, pickup the healing herb, then you can recharge at any time as long as you have hearts, which you will since you've got the herb. It appears totally randomly as an enemy drop, but the secret item dude on Stage 2 always has it, so assuming you don't fall down a hole, you can really abuse that herb for most of the game.

[BIL]

I kind of avoided the herb like the plague, actually. Had much more luck with the x3 boomerang so bosses would go down quickly.

The first game uses the same damage scale (four hits from anything = dead from halfway through / edit: er, make that two-thirds through) and I'd not noticed until someone made me watch an AVGN video, so yeah... really need to replay Original sometime soon.

[blackoak]

New tv finally syncs with Castlevania Chronicles, playing the original mode now. Herb drop on first zombie, heh...

[Skykid]

Deadite you're a soldier. Keeping in mind we're talking difficulty relative to the series, so in my experience it's most certainly one of the toughest to clear. The gears and clock Tower ascent are maddening for me, but then I haven't rinsed it to the point where I've even attempted the second loop, let alone six!

[SuperDeadite]

Maybe I'm just weird, I found the original Famicom game much harder....

As far as classic series go, the only one's I've never 1cc'd are XX and Legends, they are both awful games, and I simply can't stand playing them.

I also really love the arcade game (Haunted Castle), but stick to the Japanese version only. I have the Japanese PCB, and I've managed to counter-stop the game on 1 credit. The board is bugged, once you go over all 9's the score goes back down to like 980000 when you go over the max, I think I actually hit the counter stop on stage 38 if I remember right, this was a year or 2 ago now.

Here's my old 1cc vid using the real PCB:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umn5npUM_XE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsjzQUW1JmQ

World record? LOL, this took about 3 hours if I remember right, I doubt I'll ever pull it off again.

[BIL]

SOMEBODY GET TWINGALAXIES ON THE PHONE (for serious - I just found out today I'm the Metal Black WR holder!)

That PCB is a true mark of the hardcore Mr. Deadite. A fine performance on it too.

I find the FC original is mostly about devising clean, efficient routes through the stages with an absolute minimum of unnecessary movements. Simon controls sharply* and has great horizontal reach but obviously is not at all agile, so simple is always good. As is letting enemies do most of the moving. I used to think the sixth stage's clock tower was an incurable clusterfuck with at least a couple guaranteed hits, until I started thinking of the stage as a whole and realised that pocketwatch you pick up earlier on the bridge is there for a reason. Never get hit in the clock tower now. It's easily possible to make it through unscathed without the watch too, as long as you know where not to be. Without a plan you're going to get knocked around, though.

The other part of confidently clearing both loops is breaking Franky and Death with x3 boomerangs or firebombs. They're by no means unbeatable without them or any subweapons at all (it's pretty damn fun to try, I find). But they're both incredibly random and unforgiving. If I cheese both I can always clear the loops, if not I'll sometimes get brickwalled with several deaths.

A dagger-only run seems like it could be a lot of fun. Going with no subweapon at all is kind of boring, but the higher-end ones tend to kill later bosses before they can move. Dagger's a nice compromise and it feels badass to throw it while recovering from a knockdown.

(*using subweapons on stairs aside, but you literally never need to fight anything while on them)

[blackoak]

Been playing x68k original this week, at the final stage. Its hard and memo heavy but I'm enjoying it a lot. I loved the doll level, good programming on those dolls that sometimes duck when you whip them and sometimes don't. Charmingly aggravating. The clock tower was memohell at first, but it was only really hard because of the Werewolf boss I think. I forget how I won that fight.

Didn't even know until today that you could whip diagonally down, hah. Trying to think where it would be helpful...

[soprano1]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014- ... ves-konami

IGA left Konami. I wonder if he will do a Inafume and pull another 2D Metroidvania on portables...

[sojtrash]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014- ... ves-konami

IGA left Konami. I wonder if he will do a Inafume and pull another 2D Metroidvania on portables...

Great, another legendary Konami franchise down the toilet. I knew I hated Lords of Shadow for a reason.

March has been hitting me with bad game news all month. Why am I even gaming anymore?

[BIL]

The other part of confidently clearing both loops is breaking Franky and Death with x3 boomerangs or firebombs. They're by no means unbeatable without them or any subweapons at all (it's pretty damn fun to try, I find). But they're both incredibly random and unforgiving.

Was encouraged to hear Funkdoc's commentary on the challenge of subweapon-less CV1 Death, during his excellent CV block performance at Awesome Games Done Quick 2014. When feeling a bit SADOMASO, I think it'd have been neat to swap his place with Dracula's second form, with subweapon ammo removed beforehand. Real ultimate terror!

[DaneSaga]

good news I suppose. konami are a bunch of fucks these days so it was definitely due time he got out of there. Hopefully he can get something together going like Inafune has.

[drauch]

Yeah, can't say this hurts my feelings at all. Hopefully something good can come out of it.

[BrianC]

Vampire Killer

I'm guessing this is Bloodlines and not the MSX2 Akumajou Dracula?

[Ed Oscuro]

Was intrigued by the idea that Iga possibly wanted to do something other than churn out metros. Maybe a real old school-type game - although I hope Dracula X doesn't point the way in that regard (but maybe 2D art would fix that particular issue).

Also note that this should mean that the "Battle of 1999" game idea has finally been nailed into its coffin. WOOP WOOP

Vampire Killer

I'm guessing this is Bloodlines and not the MSX2 Akumajou Dracula?

Probably both would slot in there.

I would argue with the placement of Legends that much lower than Adventure - Legends might not be tough but its timing is very strict, and on top of that there's the damn trap candles to suck up precious time. In the first level I don't think it's possible to actually explore both routes or get sucked into one ZOMBIE PIT! while still having enough time to finish the stage.

[mikehaggar]

Skykid,

Play Castlevania Rebirth on HARD. It isn't just the last stage that is hard. It gets brutally hard from like stage 2 or 3 on. You could say then that it is much more balanced than normal mode, which only has a hard last stage...

BIL, seriously, borrow a wii or get it cheap! A guy who enjoys his games punishingly hard would have a field day with this one!

[CStarFlare]

A few days ago I decided to go for the Castlevania IV 1cc. I got to B-2, and the bosses at the end don't really pose a threat - the clear is in sight! I also gave the 2nd loop a spin - got the game over at the chandeliers of all places. Don't know that I'll stick it out through both loops (each loop would probably take something like 50 minutes to finish), but the second loop is much more interesting than I expected. Do all CV games continue to play the 2nd loop infinitely, or do any of them continue to ramp up the difficulty?

I think I've said this before, but the treasury might be the best stage in the series. When I'm getting bored after five or six stages, I just think about stage 9 on the horizon and it gives me the strength to go on.

[BIL]

Also note that this should mean that the "Battle of 1999" game idea has finally been nailed into its coffin. WOOP WOOP

Now can focus on a battle that really matters, a week's groceries for $19.99!

BIL, seriously, borrow a wii or get it cheap! A guy who enjoys his games punishingly hard would have a field day with this one!

Haha, I'll get around to it someday. ^_~ Currently being tormented by the Holy Diver clear. I live a life of constant punishments!

Do all CV games continue to play the 2nd loop infinitely, or do any of them continue to ramp up the difficulty?

I think I've said this before, but the treasury might be the best stage in the series. When I'm getting bored after five or six stages, I just think about stage 9 on the horizon and it gives me the strength to go on.

X68k / Chronicles Original mode gets progressively nastier with further loops - IIRC loop master saucykobold said it tops out around the fifth. Arrange mode doesn't seem to have a loop at all.

Treasury is so good. I think the atmosphere and style of the last four stages (dungeon/treasury/clock tower/keep) really shines, and creates a great sense of payoff after the long trip. Especially fond of the view of stage 2's forest from the castle keep's entrance.

[IrishNinja]

Might No. 666 with public license monsters, shitting all over the corpse of Konami

fuckin do it, Iga!

[Strider77]

His biggest challenge yet. Making new sprites and no recycling.

[Leader Bee]

His biggest challenge yet. Making new sprites and no recycling.

Perhaps Konami can now make a good castlevania with him gone.

[soprano1]

His biggest challenge yet. Making new sprites and no recycling.

Perhaps Konami can now make a good castlevania with him gone.

Konami doesn't want/doesn't care to make a new Castlevania, that's why they gave the job to Mercury Steam.