DVDO EDGE - How it performs

[Fudoh]

Maybe, but the RGBs signal won't output progressive scan for those games that support it

don't they ? I remember people playing Tekken 5 using VGA. Did they have to do a cable swap ?

[fagin]

I've had to pull out my plethora of interconnects and transcoders to pull these tests off!!

First off.... nice and straight forward tests:

All with a 240p game on the PS2....

PS2 (SCART RGB) --> RGBs on DVDO EDGE --> (HDMI) AVERMEDIA Capture HD (PC) --> DELL 1080p (HDMI)


PS2 (SCART RGB) --> Syncblaster --> RGBHV on DVDO EDGE --> (HDMI) AVERMEDIA Capture HD (PC) --> DELL 1080p (HDMI)


PS2 (SCART RGB) --> XRGB-2+ --> RGBHV on DVDO EDGE --> (HDMI) AVERMEDIA Capture HD (PC) --> DELL 1080p (HDMI)


PS2 (SCART RGB) --> Syncblaster --> RGBHV on DVDO EDGE --> (HDMI) HDFURY3 --> SLG3000 --> VGA to HDMI Transcoder --> AVERMEDIA Capture HD (PC) --> DELL 1080p (HDMI)


PS2 (SCART RGB) --> XRGB-2+ --> RGBHV on DVDO EDGE --> (HDMI) HDFURY3 --> SLG3000 --> VGA to HDMI Transcoder --> AVERMEDIA Capture HD (PC) --> DELL 1080p (HDMI)


Ignore the interference on the first two images (diagonal lines).

Ignore the additional ringing present on image 4 (seen on the internal parts of the yellow chars). This is not present on image 2 and is the additional transcoders present for image 4.

Fairly conclusive imo, the difference that RGBHV input on the EDGE has for 240p gaming. That and the really negligible difference between the XRGB2+ (& 3) vs EDGE on 240p via RGBHV connection with the SLG3000 makes me all warm inside.

[BuckoA51]

I still think the XRGB3 looks nicer, SLG scanlines are too dark for my liking too, but it is a big improvement. It's a shame it doesn't work with all games (some 60hz games give unsupported signal) but hopefully future firmware for EDGE will fix this so that RGBC looks nicer.

don't they ? I remember people playing Tekken 5 using VGA. Did they have to do a cable swap ?

Only a tiny amount of games support VGA on PS2 as far as I know.

[fagin]

It depends on whether you prefer the emulated look though imo. For the emulated look the XRGB is the clear winner. When you introduce scanlines the difference is much less. The scanlines on the SLG3000 were set to approximately 30% for the above tests.... obviously this can be decreased to your liking.

What specific 60hz games are you referring to?

[BuckoA51]

I thought you said your Japanese SNES failed with RGBHV? The Amiga CD32 also gave unsupported signal whenever I set it to 60hz in this configuration (even when removing one of the sync lines to force it to RGBC), there was also the problem of wobble on the picture.

[wildchild22]

I have hooking things up different ways all day to my duo. I am running a xrgb-3 with all sources though it then unto my dvdo duo (edge with cms).
I have tested all RGBs sources I have
n64 rgbmodded
a/v famicom rgbmodded
snes
ps1
dreamcast
saturn
genesis/32x/segacd

all work fine except for my turbograph 16.

the tg-16 output into my duo causes it to lock unto and then resync continously. I fixed this by buying a hdbox and I had a scart to component converter. So seeing I only had 1 vga cable 25 feet long I ran the tg-16 scart into the component transcoder. Then the component video into the hdbox. I set the hdbox to output 640X480P. I connected the slg3000 to the output of the hdbox then I connected that to the xrgb3.
Now I get a picture perfect output form the tg-16 with no lines bent.

The hdbox with a scart to component video conveter works magic for troublesome sources and the xrb-3.
I left all the xrgb-3 settings to default.

[BuckoA51]

Problems with PC Engine/Turbographx are common. Are you saying you are going Turbografx->Component Transcoder->HDBox->slg3000->Xrgb3->DVDO->Display ?

That's going to be laggy (HD Box induces lag, transcoding probably a little too) also why slg3000 when the Xrgb3 provides scanlines? (not that it really matters I guess since slg3000 is lagfree).

[wildchild22]

I am using the slg3000 because I see no scan lines when feeding the xrb3 a 640X480p from the hdbox. It seems as if it is passing it though. So I added the slg3000.

There is no lag with anything you insert in the chain unless it has a frame buffer. A component transcoder adds no lag. A scaler does.
Using my above setup I do not find any more lag.

[Fudoh]

The HDBoxPro in your setup adds some lag, but that's ok since the devices are pretty much lag-free including the Edge in gamemode.

The TG16/PCE compatibility issue can be fixed by using a different RGB booster amp. I'm looking into this right now since my PCE gives me lots of troubles on my setup as well.

[fagin]

I thought you said your Japanese SNES failed with RGBHV? The Amiga CD32 also gave unsupported signal whenever I set it to 60hz in this configuration (even when removing one of the sync lines to force it to RGBC), there was also the problem of wobble on the picture.

Yes... it failed on RGBHV connection but worked fine on RGBH connection. RGBH is recognised as RGB C-SYNC with EDGE and worked fine for both the PS2 and JAP SNES. Using the syncblaster cable for this connection method meant all sync instability had gone. Win win for 240p on the EDGE, PAL or NTSC so far!

[wildchild22]

Thanks Fudoh


I made a njm booster amp the same as the n64 one. SO you can cross that off as working. But it is fine though on the n64 and av famicom

The HDBoxPro in your setup adds some lag, but that's ok since the devices are pretty much lag-free including the Edge in gamemode.

The TG16/PCE compatibility issue can be fixed by using a different RGB booster amp. I'm looking into this right now since my PCE gives me lots of troubles on my setup as well.

[BuckoA51]

Yes... it failed on RGBHV connection but worked fine on RGBH connection. RGBH is recognised as RGB C-SYNC with EDGE and worked fine for both the PS2 and JAP SNES. Using the syncblaster cable for this connection method meant all sync instability had gone. Win win for 240p on the EDGE, PAL or NTSC so far!

Hmm, well the CD32 fails regardless of RGBC or RGBHV whenever it is set to 60hz, so I don't expect compatibility to be too promising in this configuration. Perhaps 60hz would work if I used the Amiga's RGBC through the Syncblaster cable but I don't have my Syncblaster any more so can't comment.

The TG16/PCE compatibility issue can be fixed by using a different RGB booster amp. I'm looking into this right now since my PCE gives me lots of troubles on my setup as well.

Please keep me informed if you make any progress on this, I would love to get my PC Engine working with my XRGB3->DVDO Edge setup.

[fagin]

The TG16/PCE compatibility issue can be fixed by using a different RGB booster amp. I'm looking into this right now since my PCE gives me lots of troubles on my setup as well.

Will be interested in your findings here.... I have always left my TG16 alone as it gives issues with anything other than direct connection to a LCD via SCART RGB (sync seemed fine but picture was dark on anything other than connection stated to LCD). I think I'm going to rip it apart tonight and start playing.

[fagin]

Yes... it failed on RGBHV connection but worked fine on RGBH connection. RGBH is recognised as RGB C-SYNC with EDGE and worked fine for both the PS2 and JAP SNES. Using the syncblaster cable for this connection method meant all sync instability had gone. Win win for 240p on the EDGE, PAL or NTSC so far!

Hmm, well the CD32 fails regardless of RGBC or RGBHV whenever it is set to 60hz, so I don't expect compatibility to be too promising in this configuration. Perhaps 60hz would work if I used the Amiga's RGBC through the Syncblaster cable but I don't have my Syncblaster any more so can't comment.

The TG16/PCE compatibility issue can be fixed by using a different RGB booster amp. I'm looking into this right now since my PCE gives me lots of troubles on my setup as well.

Please keep me informed if you make any progress on this, I would love to get my PC Engine working with my XRGB3->DVDO Edge setup.

I don't think the Syncblaster cable will like a RGBC (if your meaning that RGBC is composite sync as opposed to composite video) source..... it would need to be RGBs (composite video). None of my consoles are composite sync.... they're all composite video.

[BuckoA51]

Don't see any reason why the Syncblaster would choke when fed with pure sync to be honest, for most stuff pure sync vs sync on composite video makes no difference anyway.

and if you lot can figure out how to get the PC Engine working I would be extremely grateful

[fagin]

Don't see any reason why the Syncblaster would choke when fed with pure sync to be honest, for most stuff pure sync vs sync on composite video makes no difference anyway.

It's ill advised to connect a c-sync signal to the LM1881. Whether that means it don't work, fails to sync correctly or blows your house up.... I don't know. I know the Syncblaster does not use a LM1881, but the reason behind the lead is to sync clean a composite video signal in any case. The resultant "caveat" may be the same with the Syncblaster IC's and c-sync source.

[BuckoA51]

I really doubt it would stop it working, besides I am sure the Syncblaster can split the sync and output RGBHV too (I'm almost certain I had it working like this on my XRGB3). The Sycblasters are designed to sync strip AND amplify, I would imagine the Syncblaster SCART is based on the Syncblaster black boxes which will accept any kind of SCART signal. I don't recall anything in the manual that said you could not feed it pure sync either.

[fagin]

Right....

I have stable sync on my TG16 feeding the EDGE!

Sync Strike is your friend.

RGB SCART to the EDGE via phono breakout gives me nada.

RGB SCART to Syncblaster to EDGE gives me nada.

RGB SCART to Sync Strike (CSYNC sw on) to EDGE on RGBHV gives me unstable sync.

RGB SCART to Sync Strike (CSYNC sw on) to EDGE on RGBs gives me 100% stable sync.

[BuckoA51]

I wonder if PC Engine->RGB SCART to Sync Strike (CSYNC sw on)->XRGB3->EDGE RGBHV would work?

[fagin]

Let me pull the XRGB-2+ out and try that.

[fagin]

**edited - i'm going round the twist**

[BuckoA51]

Does the 2+ have the same problems as the 3 with the PC Engine then?

[Fudoh]

wonder if PC Engine->RGB SCART to Sync Strike (CSYNC sw on)->XRGB3->EDGE RGBHV would work?

I don't have the sync strike (yet), but I have a self-made LM1881 stripper and an unit from Extron (VSS 100) and they don't make a difference on the XRGB-3. No DVDO in the line though (just PCE > Sync processor > XRGB > Extron Interface > TV). I have had PCEs over the past years though that worked fine on the XRGB-3 - by just using a different kind of RGB mod.

My PCE currently works fine in B0, but has continuous dropouts in B1.

[fagin]

OK... this is a bit arse about face but the logic is correct (I think).

Because I only have one VGA to phono breakout I had to test this in stages.

1) TG16 SCART RGB to Sync Strike to XRGB-2+ (via GAME IN with a VGA to RGB PHONO/SCART) to DELL - Stable picture
2) TG16 SCART RGB to XRGB-2+ to EDGE (via VGA to PHONO) RGBHV to DELL - Stable and properly recognised RGBHV

If I had another VGA to PHONO lead I can't see why your questioned chain would not work.

[BuckoA51]

Well I tried the PC Engine with the Syncblaster cable in this configuration and it failed, so I am not confident that the sync strike would work.

My PCE currently works fine in B0, but has continuous dropouts in B1.

Mine too, what makes you believe a different RGB amp is the answer by the way?

[fagin]

Well I tried the PC Engine with the Syncblaster cable in this configuration and it failed, so I am not confident that the sync strike would work.

The Syncblaster didn't work with the DVDO EDGE (or my tri-sync monitors) from the TG16, but the Sync Strike did (in both scenarios). It has / could work in other cases where the syncblaster does not.

Based on your RGBHV comment of the synblaster.... I have been unable to get a RGBHV signal recognised from the EDGE. If it is RGBHV output, it is not in a way the EDGE recognises. The Sync Strike is a different story.

[Fudoh]

Mine too, what makes you believe a different RGB amp is the answer by the way?

It's a matter of how the sync is handled (not the actual boosting of the three color channels, so it's not a question of the RGB amp, but of the RGB mod in place). I had PCEs (both Duo and regular Core Grafx units) which worked flawlessly on the XRGB in B1 - just have to sort out which behaves how.... I'm on it

[BuckoA51]

Ah yes I seem to remember you mentioned before that the type of mod was important, Markus should have finished his exams by now so if you can get the details I will contact him.

[BuckoA51]

Ok I might have made a significant breakthrough with the Genesis/Megadrive Sega Master System converter problem. Here's how I connected it up.

Genesis with SMS Converter->XRGB3->Extron RGB 580xi->DVDO Edge->Display.

My Genesis is modded to output pure sync, I would be suprised if this was not important for this to work.

set the XRGB3 to auto everything.
turn on DDSP and Comp Sync on the Extron.
Connect the Extron to the Edge's RGBHV input BUT (and this is important, even with the comp sync switch on) connect only the horizontal sync line (the top one) leave the vertical sync disconnected.

In this setup the SMS converters picture was perfect, and I mean absolutely utterly perfect, no warping and not even a hint of noise if you stuck your nose against the screen, I watched the picture for a half hour with no screen blanking, it needs a longer test but so far very promising.

Now, can someone test the Neo Geo AES/MVS and their SMS converter in this setup too?

[SGGG2]

So this'll nullify the shaky V-Sync of the XRGB?

Did you try this with other systems or with the Gefen in place of the Edge?