Sine Mora(Suda 51 shmup)

[BPzeBanshee]

whinge whinge whinge Garegga rank

Stop worrying. Garegga's rank is fully controllable, and going by previous comments + me and Sumez' critique on the matter it's not going to be nearly as intimidating as you think when it comes out.

[Randorama]

whinge whinge whinge Garegga rank

Stop worrying. Garegga's rank is fully controllable, and going by previous comments + me and Sumez' critique on the matter it's not going to be nearly as intimidating as you think when it comes out.

whinge whinge?

Lol, cheers mate on the yarn about Garegga rank, we Oz Raizing fans must stand united

[maxlords]

It's not that I find rank uncontrollable, it's that sometimes I want a shooting experience where I don't have to think about it

I like Raizing games...I have Batrider, Dimahoo, even Ibara for god's sake. But sometimes I just wish I could play those games, max out my powerups and just play. It'd be nice to have that option. I find that once I learn a ranking system, especially a complex one, the games aren't as fun because I feel like I HAVE to play that way. Does that make sense? Other than the amount of time it takes to develop a balanced alternative mode, there's no reason not to have that option IMO.

[BPzeBanshee]

whinge whinge?

Lol, cheers mate on the yarn about Garegga rank, we Oz Raizing fans must stand united

"whinge whinge whinge" is always what I stick in when there's a string of whinging on a thread. You should've seen my take on the Guwange XBLA whingers the last time the subject of the menu popped up.

....wait a minute, you're an Aussie too? I thought Aussie shmup players didn't exist except for me my goth chick mate at Adelaide.

It's not that I find rank uncontrollable, it's that sometimes I want a shooting experience where I don't have to think about it

I like Raizing games...I have Batrider, Dimahoo, even Ibara for god's sake. But sometimes I just wish I could play those games, max out my powerups and just play. It'd be nice to have that option. I find that once I learn a ranking system, especially a complex one, the games aren't as fun because I feel like I HAVE to play that way. Does that make sense? Other than the amount of time it takes to develop a balanced alternative mode, there's no reason not to have that option IMO.

You're not wrong there, in fact not at all, except for worrying that Sine Mora's going in that direction. As I understand it what's been said so far the main emphasis of the game is on killing off stuff to keep the timer from running out. Basically, the rank's going to be a function of difficulty, not a variable that absolutely must be manipulated to succeed in playing the game. Furthermore I believe there is typical difficulty settings involved in as well going by the varying difficulty seen of particular places in the videos.
That said, a bit of Raizing influence in this game isn't going to be a bad thing.

[Reiker]

Hello again,

is everything that's been shown so far from the first stage, and roughly how long will the game and its different levels be?

All the videos / screens released so far originate from approximately 1.5 stages. The game has 7 stages + a prologue ("0.5" stage). 1CC time is around 80-90 minutes, so it's pretty long.

BTW I know that it might be getting late in the development cycle but could you possibly include an enemy shot down % in the score tally, if its easy to implement? Im playing REZ atm and having fun trying to get 100% shot down, also the 1941 series had it.

Unfortunately, it would be quite complicated to include it in the tally, as there are a lot of enemies which stay "alive" even when they left the screen - so if you miss them, they do not count into the hit ratio until the very end of the stage (when we "kill" them). I'm talking mostly about the turret-type enemies here.

So, no real-time counter, sorry - however, it's indicated (and optionally rewarded) on the stage results screen.

You're not wrong there, in fact not at all, except for worrying that Sine Mora's going in that direction. As I understand it what's been said so far the main emphasis of the game is on killing off stuff to keep the timer from running out. Basically, the rank's going to be a function of difficulty, not a variable that absolutely must be manipulated to succeed in playing the game.

Exactly.

[Udderdude]

1cc time is around 80-90 minutes, so it's pretty long.

Houston, we have a problem.

Typical 1cc time for a shmup is 30 minutes. 80-90 minutes is extremely long.

Consider making a mode with less levels.

[ptoing]

Yeah, for one loop something like 30, perhaps 45 minutes is ok.
Gradius V is pretty tiring with it's 80ish minutes loop.

[Zaarock]

Yeah.. the game going past an hour will get tiring for a lot of people, and any faults in the gameplay/scoring mechanics will show even more. 40-50 minutes is ok IMO if the game is good.

I think Space Invaders Infinity Gene was 70 minutes? Could barely handle 1ccing that (liked the game though), and playing for score got obnoxious because of the time as well.

[Deca]

Yeahhh I have to say I've been totally on board with this game and optimistic since I first heard about it. Little concerns have popped up, been presented by myself or others in this thread, and been addressed properly. For the most part my concerns have been along the lines of "hm I don't know about that, but it'll probably end up fine."

However, hearing that the game is well over an hour long and doesn't even loop has me extremely concerned

[RNGmaster]

Many developers who program a long shmup make the difficulty so low that it's just a matter of endurance.However, making every stage hard just makes the 1cc exponentially more tiring and frustrating. The only way I can see to get around this dilemma is to make the game much shorter. (Or model it after Hellsinker, which takes at least 40 minutes but is still a great game.) If the game has lots of sequences like the water trailer, where you're just holding the fire button and not moving for a minute, that's just artificial padding for the sake of making the game longer to appeal to mainstream reviewers, and that's no good either.

Please be considerate to those of us who have jobs or classes, and can't afford to sit down and attempt a 90-minute 1cc every day. Part of the good thing about shmups is the possibility that you can sit down for 10 minutes and have plenty of fun, and making the game so slow just breaks that in half.

[guigui]

Same complaint about length here.

Sin & Punishment 2 is over 2 hours long and I enjoy it a lot. But it also has lots and tons and lots of stuff to shoot, and you could play as single stage for your 15 minutes of shmup session before back to work.

[ZenErik]

Im interested but also prefer the 15 to 45 min time range.

It's funny because with most other genres all the dedicated players would say its way too short.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Im interested but also prefer the 15 to 45 min time range.

I'm a fond of both short and longer shmups like Gradius V. I do think that shmups with a very long campaign could do with including something like a pause state where you stop playing via the pause menu, turn off the system, and resume where you left off a few days later. You'd have to make it so the save is deleted when you resume to prevent something like save copying abuse for score (or just disable saving for the score attack modes).

[dpful]

I like short and long too. I'm glad gradius V isn't shorter. Just as long as it kicks ass the whole time.

[BPzeBanshee]

I'm for the short timing clear. Frankly I find 30 minutes in itself to be a bit long, if this is going to be manic and be based on quick timing I wouldn't be going over the 30 minute mark by much.

Is the 1CC time including cutscenes and stuff like that? If so, with that cut out is the 1CC time more plausible?

[guigui]

Any news of the game ?

[Estebang]

None. They're probably in crunch time.

[near_miss]

I think an hour, while possibly eye bleeding - is pretty awesome, as long as the design is tight. Variety is the spice of life.

Edit: ok 90 mins is pretty long, but I love epic boss rushes, so hope there's lots of that.

[Reiker]

Is the 1CC time including cutscenes and stuff like that? If so, with that cut out is the 1CC time more plausible?

Yes. If you skip all the cutscenes, the 1CC time is somewhere around 50-55 minutes.

[Demetori]

Is the 1CC time including cutscenes and stuff like that? If so, with that cut out is the 1CC time more plausible?

Yes. If you skip all the cutscenes, the 1CC time is somewhere around 50-55 minutes.

... That's asinine. I get the feeling for those of us who want to score it's going to end up feeling like Gran Turismo endurance races...
I guess if it's THAT good then the 50 - 55 minutes would fly by unnoticed the first couple of times, but it ain't going to hold up for scoring. The stages could be scored individually if nobody ends up caring enough to go through it all.

[Reiker]

The stages could be scored individually if nobody ends up caring enough to go through it all.

There is a Score Attack game mode, offering every (previously visited) stage for scoring / burst play.

...

Also, the game's Facebook page will be updated with new screens today, according to the Marketing guys.

[Udderdude]

I guess it's a little too late to add this, but a score attack mode with half of the levels and another score attack mode with the other half would be cool.

[Hagane]

I guess if it's THAT good then the 50 - 55 minutes would fly by unnoticed the first couple of times, but it ain't going to hold up for scoring. The stages could be scored individually if nobody ends up caring enough to go through it all.

Doesn't a full Garegga run last roughly that much? Batrider lasts even more IIRC.

[Udderdude]

I guess if it's THAT good then the 50 - 55 minutes would fly by unnoticed the first couple of times, but it ain't going to hold up for scoring. The stages could be scored individually if nobody ends up caring enough to go through it all.

Doesn't a full Garegga run last roughly that much? Batrider lasts even more IIRC.

You gotta factor in the amount of boss milking there, though. And Batrider takes even longer because of all the extra (special) bosses.

Both loops of DDP also take about 50 min.

How long older late 90s shmups took to clear is not really appropriate, considering we're talking about a game being released in 2011, where the standards have changed to 20-30 min clear times.

Mushi Futari Ultra takes about 40 min, but that's mainly due to the obscenely long time it takes to kill the last boss and true last boss, etc.

[Kaiser]

I guess if it's THAT good then the 50 - 55 minutes would fly by unnoticed the first couple of times, but it ain't going to hold up for scoring. The stages could be scored individually if nobody ends up caring enough to go through it all.

Doesn't a full Garegga run last roughly that much? Batrider lasts even more IIRC.

WHINGE WHINGE

And I don't give a shit about standards this forums claims in shmup length so what now? I've been irking for a long shmup so this is ideal for me.

[Hagane]

Also "WTF this game sucks it lasts only 15/20 minutes!!!"

[J_Taishu]

50 minutes may seem long, but you have to keep in mind this is a Suda 51 game. At least 15 of those minutes will be spent flying through a long straight tunnel with no enemies.

[RSmith]

50 minutes may seem long, but you have to keep in mind this is a Suda 51 game. At least 15 of those minutes will be spent flying through a long straight tunnel with no enemies.

Are you being sarcastic? I can't tell but, either way, if I'm not mistaken it has been explained in this thread that he is only taking care of the visuals and sound. He's not involved in the gameplay whatsoever.

[Special World]

Thank God, Shadows of the Damned had the worst shooter section I've ever played.

Do we know anything about the team responsible for the gameplay?

[TheSoundofRed]

Not to throw more negativity onto the Sine Mora negativity pile, but doesn't the main gameplay mechanic revolve around the slowing of time? As cool as it may be, I'm not sure it can surpass any of the other shooters that utilize this mechanic.