Checked out the sci-fi masterpiece that is Inception?

[Skykid]

Why? Fight Club is a great flick.

Two of you! Now I understand who's been fucking up the IMDB top 250 list.

Seven

...is a much better film than Fight Club.

I agree, although I always figured I was in the minority with that one.

So is Inception better than Fight Club then, or have you just got a general disdain for the film because of its hip status amongst movie anoraks?

[CMoon]

I personally don't like fight club. I think it thinks it is clever, but isn't really. For some reason, Momento and Fight Club feel like they drank from the same contaminated stream. They have these ideas that the directors seems to think are really inventive, but ultimately (at least to me) feel pretty hollow. That said, I like Momento more, but both share the same problem. I am not even sure the plot of Fight Club actually works. I recall scenes that would only work with two characters (but of course, there is only one.) In the end, I found myself not really caring about the plot or characters as well, and the twist at the end didn't feel like much of a revelation. I can see why other people think this movie is great, but I can also see why people think ET is one of the greatest sci-fi movies. That doesn't mean I have to agree with that opinion.

Like I posted above; Inception actually suffers from the same problem. It does feel rather self-important and 'ha, look how clever I am being.' The difference is I like the plot, enjoyed the execution, it had a good soundtrack, blah, blah, blah. Dark Knight is definitely a better film, but Inception is enjoyable and well made. I can't really say that for fight club.

ANYWAY, this thread isn't about INCEPTION or FIGHT CLUB. It is about how Skykid has not seen INCEPTION, and we are all waiting to read his review.

[Skykid]

I personally don't like fight club. I think it thinks it is clever, but isn't really. For some reason, Momento and Fight Club feel like they drank from the same contaminated stream. They have these ideas that the directors seems to think are really inventive, but ultimately (at least to me) feel pretty hollow. That said, I like Momento more, but both share the same problem. I am not even sure the plot of Fight Club actually works. I recall scenes that would only work with two characters (but of course, there is only one.) In the end, I found myself not really caring about the plot or characters as well, and the twist at the end didn't feel like much of a revelation. I can see why other people think this movie is great, but I can also see why people think ET is one of the greatest sci-fi movies. That doesn't mean I have to agree with that opinion.

Like I posted above; Inception actually suffers from the same problem. It does feel rather self-important and 'ha, look how clever I am being.' The difference is I like the plot, enjoyed the execution, it had a good soundtrack, blah, blah, blah. Dark Knight is definitely a better film, but Inception is enjoyable and well made. I can't really say that for fight club.

ANYWAY, this thread isn't about INCEPTION or FIGHT CLUB. It is about how Skykid has not seen INCEPTION, and we are all waiting to read his review.

Yeah, I'd rather not look at this thread again until the new year after I've seen it tbh.

[Ed Oscuro]

haha you still haven't seen it

/me rubs it in

at this point I really don't care about having seen it, tbh

[cools]

Nah, keep derailing, it makes Skykid happy.

Fight Club is a fantastic movie, and the only novel>film conversion I consider better than the source material. Although the book itself is superb as well.

I guess if some of the haters gave me a list of classics that made sense I'd concede. Skykid listed his a while back. From what I remember, nothing terrible but I couldn't get high at a party and analyze those movies w/ someone in the corner either.

Deliberately picking non-IMDb Top 250 (since we'd be here all day listing classics found therein):
Dark City
Mysterious Skin
UHF
The Boondock Saints
Human Traffic
À l'intérieur
Visitor Q
Bulworth
And the most recent addition: Repo Men

A lot not worth analysis I expect, but less-highly-rated movies I've watched many times and enjoyed immensely at each viewing.

[emphatic]

I would never compare Inception to Fight Club, the latter being my favourite film of all time, but I thought that Inception was very good in a more timeless way than Fight Club and I think it will probably age better. Last time I saw Fight Club I actually got a bit turned off by some of the digital effects, as already, they've started to shine through as just that.

[Skykid]

The Boondock Saints

NO NO NO!

[cools]

YES. Joyously silly.

The sequel is pants until halfway through though, shame.

[GaijinPunch]

Seven

...is a much better film than Fight Club.

Never said it wasn't. But that's like comparing cocks to oranges.

Deliberately picking non-IMDb Top 250 (since we'd be here all day listing classics found therein):

There's a 250? I think I read the first 20 or so. As per before, I'm not usually interested in what other people think (unless people unanimously think something's a turd I'll generally not bother).

UHF

Hah -- is this the Weird Al movie? Classic.

One of my favorites that's prolly not on the list.
Miracle Mile

[CMoon]

When I look at my movie collection I realize that my tastes in film is pretty skewed compared to most people my age or younger. Virtually all the blu rays I've purchased so far are black and white films. When looking at the IMDB (or even AFI) lists of top films, I disagree with a third to a half of them. My main interest in film anymore is good camera work, although I good story telling, acting and overall production can really tilt my view. For instance, Nolan's Dark Knight doesn't feature any particularly impressive camera work, but I enjoy the way he tells the story and its overall execution (though the final act with two face falls short.) Maybe I'm just a film bastard (I actually do think Citizen Kane is one of the best films ever made), but I'm ready to revel in shit like Avatar, knowing full well it is shit (but it's really great shit!)

My problem with Fight Club (and honestly most films by both Nolan and Fincher) is it's self-awareness that it is more than just crap entertainment, and this often triggers the knee-jerk reaction, because I'm not sure it's as smart or as intellectual as it thinks it is. This might be what is setting Skykid off regarding Inception, but if so, spread that hate around because there's plenty of other directors deserve it, and Fight Club is one massive target for this kind of criticism.

Anyway, I'm not trying to rile people up, but I thought it worth clarifying that when some of you are saying 'great' films, for me this is very relative. There isn't much (short of some animated work) I've seen in a long while I'd call really GREAT. Not Inception, Fight Club or any of this. Maybe Seven does start getting close, but only in parts.

[CMoon]

Seven

...is a much better film than Fight Club.

Never said it wasn't. But that's like comparing cocks to oranges.

Not comparing them, and I'd have never thought of it. Honestly, I had forgotten they were the same director. Like most movies one dislikes, Fight Club dissapoints me because I don't relate to the character, the story, and wasn't swayed by the execution. I suspect these 'revelationary' movies are to a certain extent time stamped based upon your own maturity when you first see it. In a sense, it is like the Matrix. If you grew up reading sci fi, had managed to see some Ghost in the Shell and John Woo, The Matrix just came off as derivative with another missed opportunity in the final act. Whatever Fight Club was going for, it felt like too little, too late to me, but I can see how it might have been influential for someone else. It certainly wasn't technically a bad film in any regards.

[Acid King]

Maybe I'm just a film bastard (I actually do think Citizen Kane is one of the best films ever made)

Nah, that just means you have horrible, horrible taste.

[Strider77]

I enjoyed the first Transformers movie a lot more than I enjoyed Inception if I'm honest. I was actually close to giving up on Inception half way through, I found it that much of a chore. Visually it's stunning and I do usually like blockbusters that require a bit of concentration and multiple viewings but I found inception to be 2 1/2 hours of dry, I enjoyed the first Transformers movie a lot more than I enjoyed Inception if I'm honest. I was actually close to giving up on Inception half way through, I found it that much of a chore. Visually it's stunning and I do usually like blockbusters that require a bit of concentration and multiple viewings but I found inception to be 2 1/2 hours of dry, pretentious nonsense. nonsense.

No offence super pang, honestly... but I have to say after that statement, remind me to NEVER see a movie based on your call I saw both Transformers movies with friends and was utterly shocked at the garbage I was watching, I can't even believe I went to the second one.... and it got WORSE!!

For the record I enjoyed Seven and Fight Club.... I own em both on blu-ray. I thought they were both worth a watch.

[CMoon]

Maybe I'm just a film bastard (I actually do think Citizen Kane is one of the best films ever made)

Nah, that just means you have horrible, horrible taste.

[Skykid]

Maybe I'm just a film bastard (I actually do think Citizen Kane is one of the best films ever made)

Nah, that just means you have horrible, horrible taste.

It really, really doesn't.

[SuperPang]

No offence super pang, honestly... but I have to say after that statement, remind me to NEVER see a movie based on your call I saw both Transformers movies with friends and was utterly shocked at the garbage I was watching, I can't even believe I went to the second one.... and it got WORSE!!

Haha. Don't get me wrong, Transformers is hardly a classic but I was surprised by how much I enjoyed its swagger. The second however has more faults than I could fit on one page.

[Ixmucane2]

Fight Club dissapoints me because I don't relate to the character, the story, and wasn't swayed by the execution. I suspect these 'revelationary' movies are to a certain extent time stamped based upon your own maturity when you first see it. In a sense, it is like the Matrix. If you grew up reading sci fi, had managed to see some Ghost in the Shell and John Woo, The Matrix just came off as derivative with another missed opportunity in the final act. Whatever Fight Club was going for, it felt like too little, too late to me, but I can see how it might have been influential for someone else. It certainly wasn't technically a bad film in any regards.

Films like Fight Club, Memento, and to a lesser degree Inception might revolve around a "revelation", but in these cases it isn't a merely spectacular trick (like, for example, in Murder on the Orient Express).
In the case of Fight Club, for instance, realizing suddenly that the protagonist is even crazier than he seemed at first reinforces the central theme of how modern life alienates Ikea fans; Matrix is about doubting whether reality is really real, so reversals and deeper layers of illusions and simulations are a useful reiteration of the question.

[GaijinPunch]

My problem with Fight Club (and honestly most films by both Nolan and Fincher) is it's self-awareness that it is more than just crap entertainment, and this often triggers the knee-jerk reaction, because I'm not sure it's as smart or as intellectual as it thinks it is.

Hmm... I probably liked Fight Club so much b/c I thought it had style. A guy so fucked up he goes to self-help meetings (these don't really exist in Japan and I've never been while in the states, but that whole "I'm Bob and I'm an Alcoholic" lifestyle appeals to me, as I've got a really addictive personality). The man w/ the big tits... Brad Pitt's wardrobe, and I think Helena Bonham Carter is rockin'. There wasn't much for me not to like. As per before, I was a fan of Fincher since Alien 3. (Yeah, sue me).

I guess what appealed to me most about Memento was the guy's drive, and the fact that at it's heart it's just a love story (well, revenge based on love). I probably would've enjoyed it had it been told in a chronological fashion. I'm also a fan of most of the actors.

Maybe Seven does start getting close, but only in parts.

I took LSD and saw this in the theater. Fucking freaked me out.

[genecyst]

i think the problem with inception is just its targeting.
it's an incredible blockbuster movie, but it's not an incredible movie at all.
I mean, Seven, Fight Club, Inception and this sort of "breach" film have relevance because they are movies targeted for a very large audience and simply they go a step forward instead of standing as the majority of the blockbuster movies.

obviously if you're favorite movie is citizen kane (and that means you've seen a lot of movies) you can't be surprised with inception, but if you don't know so much about cinema seeing movie's by nolan and fincher should give you a bit of interested in discover something more, couse they're not dumb movies at all.

[CMoon]

I guess what appealed to me most about Memento was the guy's drive, and the fact that at it's heart it's just a love story (well, revenge based on love). I probably would've enjoyed it had it been told in a chronological fashion. I'm also a fan of most of the actors.

You know, its been a while since I've seen momento, but isn't it in fact NOT a love story. Don't we realize at the ending that the whole act of vengence is more to give the main character some meaning in his life. All of Nolan's films are about the lies we tell ourselves and how the lies feel better than the truth. As I recall, I thought the reveal in Momento was that the love-based revenge business was something of a lie to begin with.

obviously if you're favorite movie is citizen kane (and that means you've seen a lot of movies) you can't be surprised with inception, but if you don't know so much about cinema seeing movie's by nolan and fincher should give you a bit of interested in discover something more, couse they're not dumb movies at all.

I was trying to get to this idea earlier suggesting that the maturity of the viewer (and by this I mean experience with film) really is going to determine what you take out of films like Fight Club, The Matrix, etc. Honestly, I think there's a lot of you who post here who love these films that if you saw them later on, you might not have been so impressed. That said, I think much of my enjoyment of Inception was that it was a big budget, mass appeal science fiction film, and we really don't get much (or any) of that anymore.

[genecyst]

That said, I think much of my enjoyment of Inception was that it was a big budget, mass appeal science fiction film, and we really don't get much (or any) of that anymore.

me too man, i totally agree.

[Skykid]

All of Nolan's films are about the lies we tell ourselves and how the lies feel better than the truth.

He's managed to make this extend to real-life too, convincing people he's a director of masterpieces even though his films barely register as anything except base level entertainment disguised as depth.

Whatta guy.

[CMoon]

Skykid, I'm sure we've discussed this but I actually think Dark Knight is one of the better films of this decade. Now, you might argue it hasn't got a lot to compete with, or may not understand why I praise it so highly, but Nolan (nor Fincher) are talentless hacks, so why take the cheap shot?

[GaijinPunch]

He's managed to make this extend to real-life too, convincing people he's a director of masterpieces even though his films barely register as anything except base level entertainment disguised as depth.

Critically acclaimed, non-critically acclaimed, and financially successful ones at that.

[Strider77]

Critically acclaimed, non-critically acclaimed, and financially successful ones at that.

I wouldn't even try at this point.... just take solace in knowing you can sit back and watch a movie and not feel a need to rip it a new one b/c it's not a perfect 10..... but still way more enjoyable then the average crap that usually comes out.

Fincher's and Nolan's flicks are all solid and worth a watch in my opinion. You could do much worse.

[CMoon]

Fincher's and Nolan's flicks are all solid and worth a watch in my opinion. You could do much worse.

Even though I enjoy ragging on Fight Club, I agree with this.

[Skykid]

Skykid, I'm sure we've discussed this but I actually think Dark Knight is one of the better films of this decade. Now, you might argue it hasn't got a lot to compete with, or may not understand why I praise it so highly, but Nolan (nor Fincher) are talentless hacks, so why take the cheap shot?

It was the quote, I just saw it and couldn't resist.
Talk about treading old ground though, sheesh.

I think The Dark Knight is his best film (sure I've said that already), but not without several flaws. It improved on the second viewing for me, and while it's actually a blockbuster of merit, it's not a blockbuster for the ages.

Critically acclaimed, non-critically acclaimed, and financially successful ones at that.

All depends on the critic and who's doing the acclaiming. I've seen Nolan's movies get torn apart by many a knowledgable reviewer for precisely the right reasons.

And financial success rarely, barely, if ever, correlates to how genuinely brilliant a movie actually is. Most of the time it's completely the other way around.

[CMoon]

I think The Dark Knight is his best film (sure I've said that already), but not without several flaws. It improved on the second viewing for me, and while it's actually a blockbuster of merit, it's not a blockbuster for the ages.

Like I said, I think it is one of the best movies of this decade, but honestly, I'm not sure I'd rate the 90's or 00's as good decades for film in general. Maybe a worthwhile line of discussion (and the one I've been enjoying at work) is sifting through the AFI top 100 list. I strongly disagree with a lot of their choices, but it's still a much better list than the IMDB list. You might want to consider if Dark Knight belongs on that list (I think it does.) You might also enjoy considering what movies don't belong on that list. For the life of me I can't get why films like ET, Titanic, Sixth Sense, Fellowship of the Rings, etc. is on that list, but I'm strongly suspicious Avatar and Dark Knight will be on the next list. What would your 'blockbusters of the ages' look like and why doesn't Dark Knight belong on that list? Does Fight Club belong there?

Again, I come back this feeling that I'm not the right person to judge. Acid King said I have bad taste, but I'd just say my tastes are restricted--I really don't care much for the direction of cinema since the mid 80's. I'm MUCH more interested in animated films than live action at this point, and even when I do get behind a film like Dark Knight or Inception, I still don't have the investment in those films that I have in the older movies (it seems every newer film I get excited about and buy I end up selling in a couple years.) Perhaps someone who really does care more about these films can argue their case?

[GaijinPunch]

Critically acclaimed, non-critically acclaimed, and financially successful ones at that.

All depends on the critic and who's doing the acclaiming. I've seen Nolan's movies get torn apart by many a knowledgable reviewer for precisely the right reasons.

And financial success rarely, barely, if ever, correlates to how genuinely brilliant a movie actually is. Most of the time it's completely the other way around.

But how many times do they ALL come together? Rarely. In fact, most shit movies make heaps of cash b/c of the common denominator. How many movies get consistenly high reviews and make heaps of dough. I can't name that many to be honest. Nolan's only two movies in the 70-percentile at Rotten Tomatoes is Following & The Prestinge, with 76% and 75%.

I mean, we're all talking about opinions here... amateur at that, so it really means fuck all in the end.

[Skykid]

I'm not sure I'd rate the 90's or 00's as good decades for film in general.

Saying it's been a bloody awful decade for film would be an understatement. It could be the worst ever.

What would your 'blockbusters of the ages' look like and why doesn't Dark Knight belong on that list? Does Fight Club belong there?

Fight Club wasn't a blockbuster, so no. Off the top of my head, a list of blockbusters worthy of remembrance would probably include the following (in some kind of chronological order:)

King Kong
2001: A Space Odyssey
Apocalypse Now
Star Wars IV & V
The Exorcist
Jaws
Das Boot
Alien
Aliens
Die Hard
Predator
Back to the Future 1 & 2
Saving Private Ryan
Gladiator

Again, I come back this feeling that I'm not the right person to judge. Acid King said I have bad taste, but I'd just say my tastes are restricted--I really don't care much for the direction of cinema since the mid 80's.

That statement alone makes you a good person to judge, early 90's onward started to suck imo.
Besides, Acid King told me Coppola's Dracula was a good film. I watched the the other week and it was fecking dreadful (probably even worse since I recently read the book.)
Right old pile of codswallop.