Duality ZF (Xbox LIVE Indie Games) coming soon...

[Observer]

Good News: Duality ZF has been confirmed a top 6 finalist in Dream Build Play 2010 by Microsoft!!!

Observer, thanks for the tip! Explain newStage to us a bit!

Matthew, check your PMs. I think the news should be already posted. I double linked: to the video and to your site. Hopefully, it should be getting clicks sooner or later.

[Xonatron]

Good News: Duality ZF has been confirmed a top 6 finalist in Dream Build Play 2010 by Microsoft!!!

Observer, thanks for the tip! Explain newStage to us a bit!

Matthew, check your PMs. I think the news should be already posted. I double linked: to the video and to your site. Hopefully, it should be getting clicks sooner or later.

Awesome, thanks. I replied to your PM. Hit me up in email: http://xona.com/contact.html

[Observer]

Good News: Duality ZF has been confirmed a top 6 finalist in Dream Build Play 2010 by Microsoft!!!

Observer, thanks for the tip! Explain newStage to us a bit!

Matthew, check your PMs. I think the news should be already posted. I double linked: to the video and to your site. Hopefully, it should be getting clicks sooner or later.

Awesome, thanks. I replied to your PM. Hit me up in email: http://xona.com/contact.html

Mail sent, Matt. You're welcome and hopefully this is already starting to deliver more clicks. There haven't been much news lately in terms of shooters (most developers are getting ready for Comiket 78, where many release will probably take place) so earlier announcements are always welcomed.

[Matsunaga]

The newest trailer looks good, I like the design of the game, however, it also looks incredibly easy, is that the first level?

[Xonatron]

The newest trailer looks good, I like the design of the game, however, it also looks incredibly easy, is that the first level?

If you are talking about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuMZura9E-0 then it's stage 6, in hard difficulty. The latest beta-testing of the game has proven that our game should be a bit harder.

[dmauro]

Oooh, I haven't checked out a video of this in a while. I really like the blue explosions over the typical red/orange colored ones. And yeah, this looks way too easy for lvl 6 on hard. (unless Dual Mode is a little easier, which would make sense, but wouldn't necessarily be needed).

[Xonatron]

Oooh, I haven't checked out a video of this in a while. I really like the blue explosions over the typical red/orange colored ones. And yeah, this looks way too easy for lvl 6 on hard. (unless Dual Mode is a little easier, which would make sense, but wouldn't necessarily be needed).

We have considered this to be the NORMAL difficulty mode, and thus HARD would be harder, and then we would make EASY only playable for the first stage, just to make sure nobody plays it at all, but still have it there for newcomers to get a feel of the game for at least one stage before jumping into the harder, regular game.

Sounds good?

[Xonatron]

Duality ZF placed 5th in Dream Build Play 2010, one placement shy of a cash award:

Duality ZF #1 in Canada #5 in World in Dream Build Play 2010
http://xona.com/2010/05/04c.html

There were 350 games from 110 countries entered. We are proud to note that we are first in our country this year.

[Xonatron]

New footage, introducing G-MODE, the ability to control two multidirectional firing fighters at once:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nONS-WcuEg

No update from the XBLA publishers yet, but one of them is meeting Microsoft's XBLA team tomorrow. Wish us luck.

[Observer]

Holy shit, that's some serious firepower. Hopefully, that'll destroy any complaints about "weapons are weak hurrrrrr". Interesting video and fingers crossed. Come on, Microsoft, one would think that with the good reception of Decimation X it should all go smoothly.

I put up the news at newStage. I hope you don't mind I put a pompous japanenglish description of this mode (Multi-Directional 2-Fighter Shooting System). It is almost expected to have something like that, heh. Let's hope it'll direct more attention and speed thingies up.

[ncp]

Video seemed pretty boring at first (bullet count/speed) but started turning fuckin' awesome toward the end there

[Xonatron]

@Observer, we were hoping Decimation X's success would grant us some leverage in an XBLA contract, but who knows. And thanks for sharing the news! We love any help we can get with spreading the word!

@ncp, the gameplay is "boring" at first due to the 6 fighters at once, but the key to a top score is killing everything quickly and we were decimating everything at the beginning with all that firepower. You can see the game catches up quite quickly. Dual Play and G-Mode are actually very cool in Survival because once you are down to one fighter, you get better at not dying and the dynamics of the game changes. It's very very fun. Too bad we didn't have a fourth player at the time.

[Udderdude]

IMO it takes way too long to "Catch up". The bullets are also very difficult to see when they finally start coming. Explosions obscure way too much of the screen.

Is this some sort of endless mode?

[Jason]

Hmm... I've noticed this too when playing multiplayer. The game takes a bit to really get into the action. However... 2 of the 3 players are truly experts... and consider when you're watching an expert/perfect play of a game from the Radian series, the game ends up looking very easy and simple, and you almost cannot even see the enemies before death. This is cool only if you already know how tough the game is normally.

So...
Is it proper to judge the game from such an expert-play video (which shows the chaos at the end)?
Or should we be showcasing more casual gamers play it (and not reach the chaos the game has to offer)?

P.S. Yes, this was Survival mode, which is sort of endless, although it does eventually end, but chances are you'll never see it since it's that hard to reach it.

[Xonatron]

The bullets are not hard to see at all with the smooth frame rate of the game, but you'll have to take my word on that.

The "taking too long to catch up" may be exagerrated in Survival, so I could ask not to judge it on this mode. Survival purposely starts off easy and then gets hard, and does so for a single fighter. No matter how we scale the enemies harder for six fighters the beginning will always be very easy with lots of fighters.

Off topic a bit, but the scaling of difficulty for extra fighters is something we actually need to reduce, as in the regular 8-stage "Duality ZF" game mode, the game does not become (noticeably) easier with additional players, which it should. Adding in friends should allow a certain amount of ass-kicking to take place. In beta-testing, this was an expectation. In a sense, the beginning of this mode we did kick some major ass, so it's a success. Again, this you would only notice if you had experience playing the survival game mode on your own first.

I think the proper way to market our game would be to hide such "issues" from the public, and have trailers that only show the coolest footage, such as the end of this latest video capture.

[Udderdude]

However... 2 of the 3 players are truly experts... and consider when you're watching an expert/perfect play of a game from the Radian series, the game ends up looking very easy and simple, and you almost cannot even see the enemies before death. This is cool only if you already know how tough the game is normally.[/i]

Since I haven't played it myself, I'd have to see a video of that mode played by what you'd consider non-expert players.

Also Raiden has a lot more high level play than you realize, and superplays of Raiden DX do NOT look easy.

[Jason]

Also Raiden has a lot more high level play than you realize, and superplays of Raiden DX do NOT look easy.

I'd love to check that out. Do you know of any videos? I've seen some players demolish other Raiden games and they make them look simple, even some of the bosses.

[Observer]

Also Raiden has a lot more high level play than you realize, and superplays of Raiden DX do NOT look easy.

I'd love to check that out. Do you know of any videos? I've seen some players demolish other Raiden games and they make them look simple, even some of the bosses.

I think Super-Play might have something:

http://www.super-play.co.uk/index.php?c ... &gameid=94

Not sure if youtube as more. Perhaps Nicovideo has some replays as well.

[Jason]

Wow, great resource. Thanks!! I'm downloading some videos now...

[Xonatron]

Yet another Duality ZF video, finally one featuring 4 players and 8 fighters (via G-MODE):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_73E8Z_DjM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_73E8Z_DjM&hd=1 (in HD)

Improved visuals (player bullets) on this one.

[nash87]

how is the multidirection shot controlled? I'm guessing the other stick on the controller right? would it be possible to set it to a button so you could still use an arcade stick to control the shots direction by simply toggling it on and off with a single press? 360 controllers suck some serious ass when it comes to any sort of precision whether it be the d-pad or the analog, they're both absolute garbage?

also, what was reason for the multidirectional shot not being available in solo or dual play, if any?

was going to ask these questions on youtube, but it really belongs here instead so it can actually be discussed

[Xonatron]

how is the multidirection shot controlled? I'm guessing the other stick on the controller right? would it be possible to set it to a button so you could still use an arcade stick to control the shots direction by simply toggling it on and off with a single press? 360 controllers suck some serious ass when it comes to any sort of precision whether it be the d-pad or the analog, they're both absolute garbage?

also, what was reason for the multidirectional shot not being available in solo or dual play, if any?

was going to ask these questions on youtube, but it really belongs here instead so it can actually be discussed

Thanks for the interest, nash87...

The multidirectional shot is controlled with the right thumbstick, same as in ever-popular Geometry Wars and all its clones. If you press the "A" button instead you will shoot straight upwards, so multidirectional fire is actually a choice, in both modes that offer it: MULTIDIRECTIONAL and G-MODE.

The reason multidirectional fire is not available in SOLO PLAY is because it is offered, just in a different mode (MULTIDIRECTIONAL). The reason multidirectional fire is not available in DUAL PLAY is because... how? We use the right thumbstick for controlling the second fighter. The solution to controlling two fighters each with multidirectional fire was G-MODE, linked fighters controlled by the left thumbstick or D-PAD and multidirectional fire on the right thumbstick.

[nash87]

The reason multidirectional fire is not available in DUAL PLAY is because... how?

through toggling it on and off. the same stick could do both by have two functions for one ship. when the shot direction needs to be changed just press a button that switches the stick from moving the ship, to moving the shots direction, and tehn back to moving the ship with another press. I'm sure the learning curve on accurately controlling both ships and both shots at once would be pretty challenging. at least with the function of the multidirectional shot being mapped this way you're still left with the option of an arcade stick in modes that only have one ship but still have the option for the multidirectional shot.

Warning Forever had a multidirectional shot that worked like this except you could control the concentration of the shot as well, which i don't think is a good idea for duality, unless it's optional and customizable.

btw, have you decided what the difficulties are going to be called yet? i remember earlier on in this thread (or maybe another) about what to call them. there were some silly one's that got suggested.

[Xonatron]

The reason multidirectional fire is not available in DUAL PLAY is because... how?

through toggling it on and off. the same stick could do both by have two functions for one ship. when the shot direction needs to be changed just press a button that switches the stick from moving the ship, to moving the shots direction, and tehn back to moving the ship with another press. I'm sure the learning curve on accurately controlling both ships and both shots at once would be pretty challenging. at least with the function of the multidirectional shot being mapped this way you're still left with the option of an arcade stick in modes that only have one ship but still have the option for the multidirectional shot.

Interesting idea. We implemented a multidirectional dual play mode where the aim of fire was the direction of the ship, so no toggling at all, and we found it was too hard and did not work as half the time you move toward the enemy you are killing and the other half you are moving away from it. Your idea may work better. For now we have four controls modes (SOLO PLAY, DUAL PLAY, MULTIDIRECTIONAL, and G-MODE) and probably won't add any more. In fact we've already removed one. We might save these for Duality II!

[nash87]

The reason multidirectional fire is not available in DUAL PLAY is because... how?

through toggling it on and off. the same stick could do both by have two functions for one ship. when the shot direction needs to be changed just press a button that switches the stick from moving the ship, to moving the shots direction, and tehn back to moving the ship with another press. I'm sure the learning curve on accurately controlling both ships and both shots at once would be pretty challenging. at least with the function of the multidirectional shot being mapped this way you're still left with the option of an arcade stick in modes that only have one ship but still have the option for the multidirectional shot.

Interesting idea. We implemented a multidirectional dual play mode where the aim of fire was the direction of the ship, so no toggling at all, and we found it was too hard and did not work as half the time you move toward the enemy you are killing and the other half you are moving away from it. Your idea may work better. For now we have four controls modes (SOLO PLAY, DUAL PLAY, MULTIDIRECTIONAL, and G-MODE) and probably won't add any more. In fact we've already removed one. We might save these for Duality II!

so does this mean i'm going to have to use a shitty 360 controller in order to play this jawsome game to it's full extent (at least as far as controlling 1 ship goes)?

don't make me wait until duality 2 to use a stick bro. the wait for the first game, which isn't even out yet, has been bad enough.

[Xonatron]

nash87, what kind of controller do you have? Let me just start from there before I discuss further!

[ncp]

[Xonatron]

Kick ass...

So you are asking for the multidirectional firing modes (MULTIDIRECTIONAL and G-MODE) to be controlled using one thumbstick, via toggle? What about DUAL PLAY?

[Jockel]

Kick ass...

So you are asking for the multidirectional firing modes (MULTIDIRECTIONAL and G-MODE) to be controlled using one thumbstick, via toggle? What about DUAL PLAY?

most likely not, since the arcade sticks always (?) correspond to the d-pad, and not the thumbstick.

[Xonatron]

Therein lies our problem. How can we go about supporting the last two control modes to be unlocked (MULTIDIR and G-MODE), and not support the first one to be unlocked (DUAL PLAY)*? This is that balance issue that all game devs face. It's always give and take and there's no right answer.

*Dual play will be unlocked, but only to not overwhelm the newbie players with dual play controls as well as overwhlem all the players with far too many game mode options. It'll unlock quickly...