Extremely popular shmups you don't "get"

[Drum]

What about Battle Garegga?

Battle Garegga is not complicated, it's just pointlessly opaque.

[BPzeBanshee]

What about Battle Garegga?

Battle Garegga is not complicated, it's just opaque.

Opaque then. I still call it complaining, which is what this thread's for.

[manatworks]

Psyvarior 2, i try again and again to get into it but still fail to do so,love the soundtrack
Espgaluda 2,didn't give it that much chance yet,but the first impression that i tried it leaves me one of the most confusing experience in shmups i ever had, will give it more go when i've more time.

[apple arcade]

Psyvariar 2 is one of those games that is absolutely amazing to watch someone play yet insanely frustrating to replicate anything near high level play.

I enjoy the game a lot. I play it for survival not score though. I wish there were more mech shooters out there. Aesthetics in the game are just awesome.

[chempop]

Yeah Psyvariar 2 is a game I wish I could enjoy but end up failing miserably at. To a lesser degree Shiki series makes me want to smash my head into the screen.

I don't "get" ESPGaluda PS2 Arrange mode - specifically, I don't get how it's so damn awesome! Why can't other Arrange modes be like that?! Okay, I suppose Pink Sweets Arrange was pretty great, but nothing tops Galuda Arrange imho.

[apple arcade]

add guwange to my list. :/

[guigui]

For me, the answer has only one word, though a lot of shooters are involved : Checkpoint

[burgerkingdiamond]

Pink Sweets. I got MMP/PS and while I think MMP is pretty cool (although I've barely really gotten into it yet. so many games so little time... and MUST 1CC Futari first before I get serious with another game...) but I played PS twice and didn't feel like playing again. I knew going in that it wasn't a typical CAVE game. But I dont regret buying it. Im stoked to have it in my collection.

[-Bridget-]

I can think of a few.

DDP DOJ, for one. Normally I'm a huge fan of Cave, or games that promise to play whatsoever like Cave games. But DOJ... ugh. This is the shmup that I've played the least, out of Cave's games. I just dont like it very much.

Mostly, it's the scoring. To me, the scoring is BAD. Bad, bad, bad. It's PURE memorization. There's nothing else. And if you screw up even a bit, you take a massive hit to your score. I dont like scoring systems based on memorization only... so I tried to play this one mostly for survival, but.... I dont like the level design one bit either.

ESPGaluda 2 is another. For whatever reason, I just cant stand this one. It's hard to even explain why, but it's so IRRITATING. Black Label, however, is a different story; I DO like that one, though it is a bit too easy in terms of survival difficulty.

And finally, the ENTIRE TOUHOU SERIES. I really, honestly, wonder if this series would be as big as it is, if it DIDNT have a million loli girls in it. Seriously, there are Touhou fans who DONT KNOW WHAT KIND OF GAMES THEY ARE. But it's the gameplay and design that really throw me off of these. The scoring systems are gibberish to me, the stages are lame and too short, and the boss patterns are boring.... they try MUCH too hard to just look pretty. There's a REASON why most patterns in Cave games are not geometrical and all that.

I like alot of other doujin shmups, but..... Touhou, specifically, are the ones I DONT like.

[Bananamatic]

touhou isn't a shmup, it's an alternative to hypnotics
it's THAT boring

also guwange, mars matrix/giga wing and all kinds of rank based clusterfucks from raizing

[Zaarock]

all kinds of rank based clusterfucks from raizing

Er, hellsinker has even weirder rank mechanics than any of the raizing games

edit: oh wait, trollan

[ZOM]

...and all kinds of rank based clusterfucks from raizing

*whistles around trying to keep his cool*

[Bananamatic]

all kinds of rank based clusterfucks from raizing

Er, hellsinker has even weirder rank mechanics than any of the raizing games

edit: oh wait, trollan

hellsinker doesn't force you to crash your stuff because you shot one extra enemy or accidentally picked up an extra power up

[Udderdude]

Dodging powerups is for cool kids only :3

[Bananamatic]

garegga in a nutshell:

pick up bullets
dodge power ups
don't shoot
bomb scenery

[Wenchang]

Under Defeat maybe? The game is fairly popular but every time I play it I come away feeling like it has poor controls and a very dull feel overall. To some extent, I suppose I dont "get" the mainline Cave games(not Dangun Feveron or Yagawa stuff another words). I still like playing them, but the various laser/charge shots/reflect/cancel etc secondary mechanics are always a struggle to use, and I come away with the impression that these mechanics are not particularly well implemented(especially in Guwange) and that they only exist to help the designers make a more complicated scoring system. I refer to this view as an "impression" because it probably shows why I don't "get" the games entirely.

[Zengeku3]

I would like to add:

"Any score system that rewards suiciding." That doesn't necessarily include the entire shmup. The shmup might still have excellent gameplay from a survival perspective but when suiciding for score becomes a factor, that's when I stop caring about points. Or the game even.

garegga in a nutshell:
pick up bullets
dodge power ups
don't shoot
bomb scenery

We can agree on that. Definitely. Should not forget to mention how bland its graphics are. I realize its old but really now. They could've done more.

[Treasurance]

no
garegga is the only good shmup on mame
not trollan

[Skykid]

garegga

Should not forget to mention how bland its graphics are. I realize its old but really now. They could've done more.

Get the fuck out of here, is this a wind up or what?!

[BIL]

I don't get the point of infinitely looping shooters. I like Gradiuses enough to 1-ALL the few I've spent time on (II, Gaiden and V), but the idea of scoring eventually turning into a test of whose country's power grid is most reliable, or who can void their bowels the quickest (as reported in that Asteroids WR thread a while back) repels me.

[Special World]

I thought shooters where you have to suicide sounded dumb at first, but after playing a couple I've come to accept it as a great alternative to shooters where you must NEVER EVER BOMB OR DIE.

[ZOM]

Does not approve of the anti-garegga talk that's going on. The graphics are bland? Trololol.

[BPzeBanshee]

Does not approve of the anti-garegga talk that's going on. The graphics are bland? Trololol.

Yeah, especially when people complain about the invisible bullets in Garegga and then not complain about Raiden II really DOES have invisible bullets.

[burgerkingdiamond]

i dont get caravan games.

[gs68]

DeathSmiles 1.1 (standard and BL).

Fucking familiars, how do they work?

[Erppo]

Mushihimesama. Really, people whine of simple systems like Garegga and DFK being awkward, but say nothing about this. Never has shooting in a shooting game been so complicated. What annoys me is that the system seems like it could be really fun with some slight alteration, but right now I just don't get it.

[BPzeBanshee]

DeathSmiles 1.1 (standard and BL).

Fucking familiars, how do they work?

You can control the familiar's position by using the right analog stick. They'll absorb suicide bullets (the star oddly coloured ones) and in some cases their shots are multidirectional.

[burgerkingdiamond]

Mushihimesama. Really, people whine of simple systems like Garegga and DFK being awkward, but say nothing about this. Never has shooting in a shooting game been so complicated. What annoys me is that the system seems like it could be really fun with some slight alteration, but right now I just don't get it.

are we talking Futari or the original Mushi? I haven't played the original, are the scoring systems the same? I'm assuming they are. Anyway, Futari is the shit, and the scoring is pretty simple, at least for Original (mode). Actually the simplest CAVE scoring I can think of besides DDP. Don't get me wrong, DDP scoring is hard. I don't even try to chain past the first level, but at least it's simple in principle.

[Sapz]

Mushihimesama. Really, people whine of simple systems like Garegga and DFK being awkward, but say nothing about this. Never has shooting in a shooting game been so complicated. What annoys me is that the system seems like it could be really fun with some slight alteration, but right now I just don't get it.

are we talking Futari or the original Mushi? I haven't played the original, are the scoring systems the same? I'm assuming they are. Anyway, Futari is the shit, and the scoring is pretty simple, at least for Original (mode). Actually the simplest CAVE scoring I can think of besides DDP. Don't get me wrong, DDP scoring is hard. I don't even try to chain past the first level, but at least it's simple in principle.

Nope, the scoring is pretty different. It's kind of a chaining system, except you get a lot more points if you mess with some bizarre modified shot rates. :V

[Erppo]

Mushihimesama. Really, people whine of simple systems like Garegga and DFK being awkward, but say nothing about this. Never has shooting in a shooting game been so complicated. What annoys me is that the system seems like it could be really fun with some slight alteration, but right now I just don't get it.

are we talking Futari or the original Mushi? I haven't played the original, are the scoring systems the same? I'm assuming they are. Anyway, Futari is the shit, and the scoring is pretty simple, at least for Original (mode). Actually the simplest CAVE scoring I can think of besides DDP. Don't get me wrong, DDP scoring is hard. I don't even try to chain past the first level, but at least it's simple in principle.

The game called "Mushihimesama" naturally. Everybody loves Futari.

And yes, the systems are very different. Check that link I put there for example. Or this list of 5 different shot tapping techniques that you should be using in different situations in the game to play it optimally.

Edit: I don't get it as in I don't understand it. Sure I can read all these strategy texts, but I have no idea why these techniques have the effect they have. I don't want to do something I don't understand just because it somehow makes you score better.