6th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time! - Discussion thread

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:30 am

Well, maybe only have a 1month/20 posts lower limit.

I think somone with 1 post voted in the top 25 few days ago, that seems a bit useless.(not his vote, but the idea)

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:11 am

jp wrote:Blast Wind has 7 votes.

This makes my soul happy.

Yeah, Tecno Soft deserves more loving.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:13 am

Bio Metal has 2 votes.

jp · Post by jp » Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:38 am

Thunder Force III - 17 votes
Thunder Force IV - 14 votes
Thunder Force AC - 4 votes
Blast Wind - 7 votes
Hyper Duel - 9 votes

Tecno Soft is certainly making a solid show this go round. Part of me wants to change my Thunder Force AC vote to Thunder Force III just to help it get in the top 10 of something, but dammit, Thunder Force AC is so much better.

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:06 am

Thunderforce III is pretty classic, but man IV is so much better. How come it always gets beat by III? Maybe it's the soundtrack. III's soundtrack is phenomenal, not that IV's is a slouch.

s/m

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:15 am

jp wrote:Thunder Force III - 17 votes
Thunder Force IV - 14 votes
Thunder Force AC - 4 votes
Blast Wind - 7 votes
Hyper Duel - 9 votes

Tecno Soft is certainly making a solid show this go round. Part of me wants to change my Thunder Force AC vote to Thunder Force III just to help it get in the top 10 of something, but dammit, Thunder Force AC is so much better.

This is getting ridiculous. Thunderforce V used to be in the top 25, where are its supporters now? Why don't you love V guys?

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:22 am

I'll vote for IV, but not for III. As has been discussed before, IV is superior and I don't have any nostalgia towards III because I got both at the same time ~10 years ago.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:53 pm

jp wrote:Part of me wants to change my Thunder Force AC vote to Thunder Force III just to help it get in the top 10 of something, but dammit, Thunder Force AC is so much better.

Can't we just count the games together? Just like how Batsusun and Batsugun Special Ver. will probably be lumped into 1 even though they have far more different game mechanics?

BTW, TFAC loses 2 stages from TFIII and adds 1.5; I actually prefer the original. If I could, I'd probably have both but then my list would feel inequitable

jp · Post by jp » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:59 pm

I'd be down with both counting together... for sure.

Sonic R · Post by **Sonic R** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:54 pm

jp wrote:Thunder Force III - 17 votes
Thunder Force IV - 14 votes
Thunder Force AC - 4 votes
Blast Wind - 7 votes
Hyper Duel - 9 votes

Tecno Soft is certainly making a solid show this go round. Part of me wants to change my Thunder Force AC vote to Thunder Force III just to help it get in the top 10 of something, but dammit, Thunder Force AC is so much better.

Elemental Master?

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:13 pm

Too easy.

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:22 pm

JoshF wrote:Too easy.

That hasn't kept TF3 from being there regularly.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:30 pm

Elemental Master hasn't got the tunes.

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:42 pm

I agree that its music doesn't strike me as being as strong or memorable as other Techno Soft offerings, but I think it's still a good soundtrack, and a number of the songs are great (Dance of Flame, Like the Wind, Setting Out, and a couple others).

zero.otaku · Post by **zero.otaku** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:02 am

Elemental Master?

Yeah, exactly.

Elemental Master hasn't got the tunes.

WTF? Lost all respect for you.

Post by **Ghegs** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:38 pm

The TF discussion was taking a life of its own (and it's pretty interesting) so I split that part here.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:23 pm

HardcoreOtaku wrote: It was just someone trying to register so they could vote for Winds of Thunder.

Sorry if this sounds elitist, but I think new users who haven't been members for at least a couple of months should not be allowed to vote.
If someone joins only to vote for a specific game, that vote should be disregarded.

Hibou · Post by **Hibou** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:40 pm

Ceph wrote:
HardcoreOtaku wrote: It was just someone trying to register so they could vote for Winds of Thunder.
Sorry if this sounds elitist, but I think new users who haven't been members for at least a couple of months should not be allowed to vote.

Is it ?

Members of a forum are (like me) people who seek information. Or, if you prefer, people who don't know the subject. And people with a huge number of posts are... what? One may think they are people who need information all the time because they still don't know the subject after years.

You see, everything can be seen from differents points of vue... I (but perhaps that's just me) would be a little more carefull before making so definitive statements.

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:52 pm

Hibou wrote:
Ceph wrote:
HardcoreOtaku wrote: It was just someone trying to register so they could vote for Winds of Thunder.
Sorry if this sounds elitist, but I think new users who haven't been members for at least a couple of months should not be allowed to vote.
Is it ?

Members of a forum are (like me) people who seek information. Or, if you prefer, people who don't know the subject. And people with a huge number of posts are... what? One may think they are people who need information all the time because they still don't know the subject after years.

You see, everything can be seen from differents points of vue... I (but perhaps that's just me) would be a little more carefull before making so definitive statements.

Another point of view, is that people such as myself, have been playing shmups for many years before signing up here. I know I'd find it rather annoying if my join date (or post count) was somehow being used as a means to imply that I knew little about the subject matter of this site. I'd find it even more annoying if that false presumption was preventing me from being able to take part in things here.

Hibou · Post by **Hibou** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:29 pm

Oh, I'm not going to argue with this. After all my post was more a joke than anything else...

But still, I really think too definitive stamements tend to undermine the point of vue you're fighting for. And I really think the best bet in a vote like this is to rely on the community members' self-discipline. Other criterias really are too easy to mock on. Somehow, you're saying it by yourself:

The Coop wrote: Another point of view, is that people such as myself, have been playing shmups for many years before signing up here.
[...]

Years of shmuping before signing up, did you say? Or, in other words, you were an experimented shmuper at the time of your first post.

Think KET himself has 3 (three!) posts here on these forums. Now, how many of us would challenge his knowledge (about Battle Garregga or Armed Police Batrider)? After all, it's already something that KET took the time to post here!

I'm not trying to look smart or anything like that. But I can't help finding snobism a sad thing in a nice community like this one.

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:07 am

Hibou wrote:Oh, I'm not going to argue with this. After all my post was more a joke than anything else...

But still, I really think too definitive stamements tend to undermine the point of vue you're fighting for. And I really think the best bet in a vote like this is to rely on the community members' self-discipline. Other criterias really are too easy to mock on. Somehow, you're saying it by yourself:

The Coop wrote: Another point of view, is that people such as myself, have been playing shmups for many years before signing up here.
[...]
Years of shmuping before signing up, did you say? Or, in other words, you were an experimented shmuper at the time of your first post.

Think KET himself has 3 (three!) posts here on these forums. Now, how many of us would challenge his knowledge (about Battle Garregga or Armed Police Batrider)? After all, it's already something that KET took the time to post here!

I'm not trying to look smart or anything like that. But I can't help finding snobism a sad thing in a nice community like this one.

There's no snobbiness in my comment. It's simply a flat out fact

But in all seriousness, some of what's being bantered about here is in essence suggesting that it should be a no-no for new posters to take part in votes and such. My comment was made solely to show that just because a poster has one or five posts, it means little towards their shmupping experience. I'd be willing to wager I'm not the only one who only found this site after they'd been playing shmups for a good while.

To me, it's a dangerous track to take in making rules like that, as it tends to risk locking out those who are experienced, but not well known, while letting in those who are well known, but may not be all that experienced. It's the proverbial "slippery slope", as it can potentially do more harm than good. It also doesn't make the new folks feel too welcome when they're told they can't take part because of their join date or post count. It reeks of the age old Internet conflict regarding whether or not post counts and join dates make a poster... which got old a long time ago. I'd hate to see that sort of thing start being used here in its rules and regulations.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:43 am

Ceph wrote:
HardcoreOtaku wrote: It was just someone trying to register so they could vote for Winds of Thunder.
Sorry if this sounds elitist, but I think new users who haven't been members for at least a couple of months should not be allowed to vote.
If someone joins only to vote for a specific game, that vote should be disregarded.

fyi:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 731#349731

you're a page late.

jp · Post by jp » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:47 am

I think the idea behind only allowing people who have been registered for so long and/or have so many posts stems not from the idea of "shmupping experience", but more from the idea of the "Shmups.com Community".

This whole Top 25 shindig IS the Shmups.com Annual Top 25, in which members of the Shmups.com community vote on their Top 25 shmups. If you register while this is going on and post a vote and then maybe one or two other things, is that person really part of the community yet? They may be knowledgable, but I wouldn't say they're past "n00b status" so to speak in so far as the community goes.

Just my 2 cents. As long as we don't have n00b Cave kids signing up, I won't bitch too much.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:14 am

Some people are permanent n00bs.

p.s. You're not stopping me from voting for Major Stryker (I at least remember the correct name of the game now)

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:32 am

TREVOR MCFUR

jp · Post by jp » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:40 am

JoshF wrote:TREVOR MCFUR

Should get an honorable mention for the epic cover alone.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:20 am

jp wrote: This whole Top 25 shindig IS the Shmups.com Annual Top 25, in which members of the Shmups.com community vote on their Top 25 shmups.

That is exactly what I meant with my post; not shmupping experience in general but being part of the community. Someone who only registers to cast a vote is not part of the community (not unless they stick around.)

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:31 am

And what makes someone feel like part of a community more than being told they can't play in any of its reindeer games.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:39 pm

Well, if you visit a foreign country you don't get to vote there either.

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:45 pm

Ceph wrote:Well, if you visit a foreign country you don't get to vote there either.

I don't think any country would refer to the democratic process as a "bit of fun", unlike our dear old Top 25 Shmups.