Gunstar Super Heroes -- on GBA, screens inside!

[Andi]

I finally beat it on normal. I keep thinking back about how much fun I had when I was playing it but then I realize that I'm excluding about half the game which was terribly boring and annoying.

My final verdict is that it is a fine game, but when I compare to the Metal Slug Advance and Contra Advance (the other GBA run-gun games) it just falls a little flat.

[MOSQUITO FIGHTER]

compare to the Metal Slug Advance and Contra Advance (the other GBA run-gun games) it just falls a little flat.

I agree. The levels I do enjoy in gunstar super heroes I would rather play than those two. But there simply is not enough. I've been playing the seven force level and black maze levels over and over that just does not count as a completely enjoyable game. Can't say that I've played Contra Advance. (I thought there were some issues with the game displaying properly on the gba and the game lacked the N-bomb in the original version so I skipped that one). I have played Metal Slug Advance and now after my inital impressions (of GSH) prefer it. Far more balanced portable run and gun.

Also does time attacking the levels add that much more depth to the game? This might make the shoddy level and sometimes boss design make more sense. Or it might just be a pointless feature that Treasure added into the game.

[Dylan1CC]

Contra Advance is better than GSH. haha No it's not.

No really. It isn't. I'm afraid a solid Treasure sequel pre-empts a lazily slapped together Contra port.

Never played Metal Slug Advance. Too busy with Metal Slug Neo CD on my PSP. mmmm

[LoneSage]

Never played Metal Slug Advance.

You should check it out sometime. Despite the absence of score, it's a great portable run 'n gunner. Finding all the items and trying to one-life all the levels kept me coming back, it had a ton of reply value.

[Dylan1CC]

Never played Metal Slug Advance.

You should check it out sometime. Despite the absence of score, it's a great portable run 'n gunner. Finding all the items and trying to one-life all the levels kept me coming back, it had a ton of reply value.

Thanks for the heads up. I actually really wanted to buy it last year but got too distracted finishing up both Metroid Prime and Metroid NES (under 3 hours, wo0t)

[BrianC]

Metal Slug Advance totally rocks! I also like Operation C for my portable run and gun fix. Not the hardest Contra, but it is a blast to play. The GB b/w port of Contra III is well done too. That port really makes me wonder why Konami went the lazy route with the GBA version.

[jp]

I have actually reached a point where I feel the game is actually mediocre. I've been playing on Hard, and Moon 2 is simply bullshit. Good job Treasure, I have a giant fucking helicopter that can't dodge shit and a bullet hell.


Ugh. If the game was longer than yay, run'n'gun levels are fun. As is, I hate the "shmup"/"rail-shooter" levels, and I honestly feel that they kill the game. So much so I'm probably going to trade it in for a DS game or something.

[BrianC]

I have actually reached a point where I feel the game is actually mediocre. I've been playing on Hard, and Moon 2 is simply beep. Good job Treasure, I have a giant beeping helicopter that can't dodge beep and a bullet hell.


Ugh. If the game was longer than yay, run'n'gun levels are fun. As is, I hate the "shmup"/"rail-shooter" levels, and I honestly feel that they kill the game. So much so I'm probably going to trade it in for a DS game or something.

Are the rail shooter levels really that bad? I know a large hitbox is bad for a shmup, but is the Thunder Blade level really that unbalanced where it totally kills the level? Is it possible to get past the level without a single hit? Also, what's so bad about the afterburner level? Is it really super easy, even on hard mode? I personally found Mischief Makers to be extremely good and that game is made up of a lot of short levels. Is Gunstar Super Heroes another Mischief Makers? How does Gunstar Super Heroes compare to the Game Gear Gunstar Heroes?

I don't get why Flicky is such a popular game to bash. It's not some super complex game and the reason it doesn't look as sharp as Golden Axe or Altered Beast is becuase it's a port of a 1984 arcade game. However, I like the gameplay of the game. It's like a mix of Pac-Man and Mappy. The enemies knocking off the chicks is a nice touch. The game is supposed to make it harder to get the full bonus and if you don't want to get the bonus, you can make it easier by bringing in a small number of chicks at a time. I personally like Flicky quite a bit.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

I have actually reached a point where I feel the game is actually mediocre. I've been playing on Hard, and Moon 2 is simply beep. Good job Treasure, I have a giant beeping helicopter that can't dodge beep and a bullet hell.


Ugh. If the game was longer than yay, run'n'gun levels are fun. As is, I hate the "shmup"/"rail-shooter" levels, and I honestly feel that they kill the game. So much so I'm probably going to trade it in for a DS game or something.

Are the rail shooter levels really that bad? I know a large hitbox is bad for a shmup, but is the Thunder Blade level really that unbalanced where it totally kills the level? Is it possible to get past the level without a single hit? Also, what's so bad about the afterburner level? Is it really super easy, even on hard mode? I personally found Mischief Makers to be extremely good and that game is made up of a lot of short levels. Is Gunstar Super Heroes another Mischief Makers? How does Gunstar Super Heroes compare to the Game Gear Gunstar Heroes?

I don't get why Flicky is such a popular game to bash. It's not some super complex game and the reason it doesn't look as sharp as Golden Axe or Altered Beast is becuase it's a port of a 1984 arcade game. However, I like the gameplay of the game. It's like a mix of Pac-Man and Mappy. The enemies knocking off the chicks is a nice touch. The game is supposed to make it harder to get the full bonus and if you don't want to get the bonus, you can make it easier by bringing in a small number of chicks at a time. I personally like Flicky quite a bit.

The helicopter level is way below Treasure's ability to make a Shmup level. Ugh, I could've thought of something better for them or they could've recycled a bit of code and made a gradius mini-shmup level. The AI is pretty ferocious in Hard difficulty, but it's not impossible to go through unscathed since I've beaten the boss without a scratch.

The Afterburner level is just pfffttt--ridiculously easy. You won't get killed in any of 'em even if you ram into every enemy/bullet.

I actually like the Flicky level. Pretty fun even though it doesn't fit in the game theme.

[dementia]

The helicopter level is way below Treasure's ability to make a Shmup level.

Iuchi didn't work on this game. That might have something to do with it.

[dave4shmups]

People either get bitchy or they get the short end of the stick. Learning to appreciate gameplay gimmicks that're obviously flawed is telling Treasure to keep feeding us the same crap. Can you honestly say you like the Afterburner levels or the poorly done shmups levels? Don't you feel they should be replaced with run and gun action scenes? Start getting bitchy towards Treasure to make a difference.

Excellent point. The reason that "motherfucking Madden" exists is that not enough people complained that they were getting crap. Granted, none of us are bitching to Treasure directly and trying to make a difference.

All games have room for improvement.

Madden games exist because people love sports games; we'd still have Madden '05 regardless of whether or not the previous games had been heavily criticized. It's a genre of game that's mainstream, whereas 2D shooters are not, therefore it will always sell. The series will never end; but I could really care less, because I don't buy sports games.

And yes, all games have room for improvement, but Moogs makes good points-with games of this type, your darned if you do, and darned if you don't-if Treasure had stuck to the original, then the game would get crap, and if they'd done a sequel it would get more crap.

Criticism needs to be balanced with thankfullness, IMO.

[jp]

I have actually reached a point where I feel the game is actually mediocre. I've been playing on Hard, and Moon 2 is simply beep. Good job Treasure, I have a giant beeping helicopter that can't dodge beep and a bullet hell.


Ugh. If the game was longer than yay, run'n'gun levels are fun. As is, I hate the "shmup"/"rail-shooter" levels, and I honestly feel that they kill the game. So much so I'm probably going to trade it in for a DS game or something.

Are the rail shooter levels really that bad? I know a large hitbox is bad for a shmup, but is the Thunder Blade level really that unbalanced where it totally kills the level? Is it possible to get past the level without a single hit? Also, what's so bad about the afterburner level? Is it really super easy, even on hard mode? I personally found Mischief Makers to be extremely good and that game is made up of a lot of short levels. Is Gunstar Super Heroes another Mischief Makers? How does Gunstar Super Heroes compare to the Game Gear Gunstar Heroes?

I don't get why Flicky is such a popular game to bash. It's not some super complex game and the reason it doesn't look as sharp as Golden Axe or Altered Beast is becuase it's a port of a 1984 arcade game. However, I like the gameplay of the game. It's like a mix of Pac-Man and Mappy. The enemies knocking off the chicks is a nice touch. The game is supposed to make it harder to get the full bonus and if you don't want to get the bonus, you can make it easier by bringing in a small number of chicks at a time. I personally like Flicky quite a bit.

The helicopter level is way below Treasure's ability to make a Shmup level. Ugh, I could've thought of something better for them or they could've recycled a bit of code and made a gradius mini-shmup level. The AI is pretty ferocious in Hard difficulty, but it's not impossible to go through unscathed since I've beaten the boss without a scratch.

The Afterburner level is just pfffttt--ridiculously easy. You won't get killed in any of 'em even if you ram into every enemy/bullet.

I actually like the Flicky level. Pretty fun even though it doesn't fit in the game theme.

You beat the boss of Moon 2 on Hard without getting hit?


How?



As for the rail-shooter levels: The first time I saw them I thought "Cool!". The second time, I realized it was very pointless. Equip any weapon, rotate. You basically can't die there, even on Hard. And those sections are a lot longer than they need to be.

I didn't care about the flicky level. Its annoying, but it doesn't bother me as much as the horrendous shmup levels and the retarded rail-shooter levels.


Its not the length of the game or even the inclusion of these retarded "homage" levels that kill the game... its the ratio. Proportionally, there is way too much crappy half-assed shmupping/rail-shooting, and that kills the game in my eyes.

[GateofThunderforceIII]

All these g*ddamn sports games can continue to exist for these American gaming lamers...I don't care. I won't buy them anyway. Just as long as talented Japanese developers like Treasure continue to give me what I want and not sell out by trying their hands at making sports games. By the way, what is with the news of SquareEnix making a stupid ass basketball game? Oh my...

As for Gunstar Superheroes, I'd much rather have it than not and am glad Treasure decided to make it with all its quirks all. I appreciate it, especially after seeing how 2-D gaming is dying more and more by the year. Make another 2-D GBA or DS Gunstar game, Treasure, and I'll open my wallet up again (as I didn't mind the Afterburner/Flicky levels at all).

[BrianC]

Thanks for the info. I might get this. That Flicky level sounds similar to the Clancer finding levels in Mischief Makers. Considering how I was alright with those, it shouldn't bother me too much. The AB level doesn't sound too bad, though it's a pity about the low damage thing. Now that Thunder Force level sounds like something I may not like. I definatly want to try to get the Genesis one first, though. I saw the Japanese import on ebay at a decent price. The US one isn't priced too bad either, but I have a feeling that the Japanese one complete isn't too much more than the US one complete.

[Dartagnan1083]

. . .Just as long as talented Japanese developers like Treasure continue to give me what I want and not sell out by trying their hands at making sports games.

FYI Treasure did make a boxing game on the GBA.
So they obviously haven't completely dismissed the notion of sports titles.

On the plus side, you can count on it never being conventional. . .for whatever it's worth.

[Andi]

Contra Advance is better than GSH. haha No it's not.

No really. It isn't. I'm afraid a solid Treasure sequel pre-empts a lazily slapped together Contra port.

In this case, a lazy slapped together port of a great game is way better than mediocre new game. I've been playing Contra Advance much more than GSH. It's got more levels - they are longer and harder, and there isn't any filler crap to water the game down.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Are the rail shooter levels really that bad? I know a large hitbox is bad for a shmup, but is the Thunder Blade level really that unbalanced where it totally kills the level? Is it possible to get past the level without a single hit? Also, what's so bad about the afterburner level? Is it really super easy, even on hard mode? I personally found Mischief Makers to be extremely good and that game is made up of a lot of short levels. Is Gunstar Super Heroes another Mischief Makers? How does Gunstar Super Heroes compare to the Game Gear Gunstar Heroes?

I don't get why Flicky is such a popular game to bash. It's not some super complex game and the reason it doesn't look as sharp as Golden Axe or Altered Beast is becuase it's a port of a 1984 arcade game. However, I like the gameplay of the game. It's like a mix of Pac-Man and Mappy. The enemies knocking off the chicks is a nice touch. The game is supposed to make it harder to get the full bonus and if you don't want to get the bonus, you can make it easier by bringing in a small number of chicks at a time. I personally like Flicky quite a bit.

The helicopter level is way below Treasure's ability to make a Shmup level. Ugh, I could've thought of something better for them or they could've recycled a bit of code and made a gradius mini-shmup level. The AI is pretty ferocious in Hard difficulty, but it's not impossible to go through unscathed since I've beaten the boss without a scratch.

The Afterburner level is just pfffttt--ridiculously easy. You won't get killed in any of 'em even if you ram into every enemy/bullet.

I actually like the Flicky level. Pretty fun even though it doesn't fit in the game theme.

You beat the boss of Moon 2 on Hard without getting hit?


How?

When you get to the boss, move to the center of the screen and take out as many of the boats as you can. Then, immediately move as close to the boss as you can (he'll shield you from some bullets) and give him a load of your gun and missiles. Move back enough to dodge the remaining bullets, and when the front clears up, move up again. Repeat. Remember to shoot and missile him all the while.

[Moogs]

Contra Advance is better than GSH. haha No it's not.

No really. It isn't. I'm afraid a solid Treasure sequel pre-empts a lazily slapped together Contra port.

In this case, a lazy slapped together port of a great game is way better than mediocre new game. I've been playing Contra Advance much more than GSH. It's got more levels - they are longer and harder, and there isn't any filler crap to water the game down.

Contra Advance is harder because Konami squashed the game into the GBA without taking screen size into consideration, so it's hard for the wrong reason if you ask me.

Even though you didn't.

[dave4shmups]

Contra Advance is better than GSH. haha No it's not.

No really. It isn't. I'm afraid a solid Treasure sequel pre-empts a lazily slapped together Contra port.

In this case, a lazy slapped together port of a great game is way better than mediocre new game. I've been playing Contra Advance much more than GSH. It's got more levels - they are longer and harder, and there isn't any filler crap to water the game down.

GBA Contra isn't a "lazy slapped together" game?? All Konami did was combine stages from SNES Contra III and Genesis Contra: Hard Corps, instead of giving us an original game, which Treasure has done, in the case of Gunstar Super Heroes. And, from pretty much every review of GBA Contra that I've read, the Genesis-Contra levels look pretty bad compared to the SNES-Contra levels.

I just picked up Gunstar Super Heroes today, and it rocks! It is an incredible piece of work; the levels are fantastic, and the graphical effects surpass the original. I can see now why this game won so many awards at E3 this year; it's easily the best GBA title I've ever played.

[Andi]

GBA Contra isn't a "lazy slapped together" game?? All Konami did was combine stages from SNES Contra III and Genesis Contra: Hard Corps, instead of giving us an original game, which Treasure has done, in the case of Gunstar Super Heroes. And, from pretty much every review of GBA Contra that I've read, the Genesis-Contra levels look pretty bad compared to the SNES-Contra levels.

Unfortunately, Treasure gave us an entirely original game. That is respectable. Unfortunately, it's a lame original game. That's the problem.

I'd rather play a lazy port of Contra than Treasure's lame game.

[jp]

GBA Contra isn't a "lazy slapped together" game?? All Konami did was combine stages from SNES Contra III and Genesis Contra: Hard Corps, instead of giving us an original game, which Treasure has done, in the case of Gunstar Super Heroes. And, from pretty much every review of GBA Contra that I've read, the Genesis-Contra levels look pretty bad compared to the SNES-Contra levels.

Unfortunately, Treasure gave us an entirely original game. That is respectable. Unfortunately, it's a lame original game. That's the problem.

I'd rather play a lazy port of Contra than Treasure's lame game.

I concur. Gunstar Super Heroes is a very mediocre title.

[MOSQUITO FIGHTER]

the levels are fantastic

What do you like about the levels?

[dave4shmups]

the levels are fantastic

What do you like about the levels?

The shooting, the graphics, the challenge; pretty much everything.

[BrianC]

. . .Just as long as talented Japanese developers like Treasure continue to give me what I want and not sell out by trying their hands at making sports games.

FYI Treasure did make a boxing game on the GBA.
So they obviously haven't completely dismissed the notion of sports titles.

On the plus side, you can count on it never being conventional. . .for whatever it's worth.

Hajime no Ippo the Fighting is the name of that boxing game. From what I heard, it's a very well done boxing game too. The anime of Hajime no Ippo is getting released here under the name "Fighting Spirit" and I like it quite a bit so far.

While I do think Madden games don't need to be updated every year, I do like sports games, especially arcade style ones. BTW, some Japanese companies like Konami update their games quite a bit too. The Powerful Pro Baseball games are arleady up to number 12. Winning Eleven/ISS is getting up in numbers too. Even the portable Power Pro games are up to 7.

[Dylan1CC]

BrianC: I LOVE Operation C! Finally got around to digging up a loose copy last year and it still gets a lot of play. Assuming you own it, how is the '94 (?) B&W rev of Contra: The Alien Wars?

Anyways, as for the game being "medicore" I completely disagree. Yeah, examples like the Afterburner stages are easy but the remaining majority of the game mimics the first very well and even improves on it at times challenge wise.

As an example, I liked the final battle with Green/7F much more than I did in the first game. Trying to stay alive on foot as he quickly morphs between all of 7F's giant forms is much more difficult than fighting him mano-mano in the Genny game (where all you had to do was get homing shot, mix it with lightning, keep putting the cursor on him, flip between the two platforms and he was toast). Black's mech is also a pushover in the Genny game compared to both his forms in GSH.

And why do people hate the "Flicky" level where you escort the chicks so much? I like that stage, not just a flicky rip, it's also very Mischief Makers'esque IMHO and it is seriously hard to get all of them in one lump past them pesky centipedes. Besides, the rest of the jungle/native stage is long and has plenty of running 'n gunning.

edit: I completely agree though that the Heli stage was botched, if only they'd made the sprites smaller and given the player more room fer cryin' out loud.

edit: And yeah, final battle would have been greatly improved if Golden Silver moved and not just the gems. But the other bosses beforehand are IMHO done so well this doesn't bother me as much as it would.

edit: And as my final edit to this post as I catch up on reading the thread.....

There's nothing Treasure could have done to please everyone with Gunstar Super Heroes. It's faced with criticism for being a remake of the original, but if it had been s straight port, then it would catch hell for not offering anything new. Had they made it a real sequel -- meaning all new characters, levels, weapons, etc. -- then there would be all this nonsense about how they changed too much.

It's Gunstar Heroes. It's classic Treasure gameplay (yes, even the wonky tribute levels; every Treasure game has moments that just don't make any damn sense). Just be thankful they didn't attempt to do this in 3D.

What Moogs said here, all the way.

[jp]

There's nothing Treasure could have done to please everyone with Gunstar Super Heroes. It's faced with criticism for being a remake of the original, but if it had been s straight port, then it would catch hell for not offering anything new. Had they made it a real sequel -- meaning all new characters, levels, weapons, etc. -- then there would be all this nonsense about how they changed too much.

I would agree if it wasn't for the following comparisons:

Things That Are Better:
Graphics

Things That Are Worse:
Level Design
Weapon Systems
Boss Fights
"Homage" Levels
Challenge

If they made a new game and it was better, kudos to them. If they ported the original and it turned out well, once again, kudos. As is, they remixed the original and added a lot of unecessary stuff that just made the game a pain to play. I loved it for the first run, but after that I saw how damn mediocre and boring it was. If they had made a good remix, I would have been thrilled. As is, they didn't.

[LoneSage]

Assuming you own it, how is the '94 (?) B&W rev of Contra: The Alien Wars?

I actually got that game myself last year, back in October. I expected something really slow-paced and boring, but t be quite honest I was amazed at how faithful the port was, considering it's on GB hardware. Sure, that level when you're on the bike is totally out, but as far as I remember that's the only level cut out (one of the overhead levels could have been taken out too, maybe).

Anyways, I think it's a great game, despite being easier and in general not as pretty as its console counterpart (but that's to be expected). They still have the flying airplane dropping the bombs in the first level, too, I was like ah dude, sweet!

Great run 'n gunner, I definitely saw a lot of effort put into porting this one. If you see it, you shoul pick it up.

I've never had the chance to play O-C, though.

[jp]

Operation C kicked ass. Rather, if it was the one with the homing weapon and the submarine was the first boss, then it kicked ass. I wish I still had that game (or knew where it was).

[BrianC]

Operation C kicked ass. Rather, if it was the one with the homing weapon and the submarine was the first boss, then it kicked ass. I wish I still had that game (or knew where it was).

Yup. That's Operation C. It's actually in both the Japanese and European Konami GB Collection v. 1. The European one has the edited Probotector version, though. Oddly enough, Operation C was just called "Contra" in Japan.

[Dylan1CC]

Thanks Sage. Brian sent me a PM which pretty much goes with what you said, so I think I will get a copy of that game.