Xbox 360: Mushihimesama Futari 1.5 (November 2009)

[Gus]

I guess I'll clarify.

Concerning 1.5 Original, it's pointless "to 1cc" and not "to play for store", after having 1cc'd the first time.

I disagree. I think you need to be able to comfortably 1CC the game on most attempts before trying to play for score. Playing for score feels like a waste of time to me if I know I'm not going to be able to clear the game.

Yeah, you should be able to 1cc Maniac and God before you even try to play for score and get those useless extends. Let's also try and 1cc Ultra before we even try to play that one for score too. Great fucking idea. Such great advice from a guy who hasn't even got a top 20 score.

[Elixir]

I disagree. I think you need to be able to comfortably 1CC the game on most attempts before trying to play for score. Playing for score feels like a waste of time to me if I know I'm not going to be able to clear the game.

Of course, this is where stage practice comes in, to iron out problem areas. He's eventually going to crack and just practice whatever stage/boss he's always dying to, like most others usually do.

Yeah, you should be able to 1cc Maniac and God before you even try to play for score and get those useless extends. Let's also try and 1cc Ultra before we even try to play that one for score too. Great fucking idea. Such great advice from a guy who hasn't even got a top 20 score.

Perhaps this is uh, absolutely unapparent to you but uh, nobody is talking about Maniac or God modes here. Or Ultra, for that matter.

[Gus]

Yeah, you should be able to 1cc Maniac and God before you even try to play for score and get those useless extends. Let's also try and 1cc Ultra before we even try to play that one for score too. Great fucking idea. Such great advice from a guy who hasn't even got a top 20 score.

Perhaps this is uh, absolutely unapparent to you but uh, nobody is talking about Maniac or God modes here. Or Ultra, for that matter.

Perhaps this is uh, absolutely unapparent to you but uh, this topic is titled Mushihimesama Futari 1.5 not Mushihimesama Futari 1.5 Original. Honestly, it's pretty depressing to me that most people only seem to ever try out the worst mode in the game.

[Elixir]

Yes, I am aware of the thread's title, considering I wrote it, and made the thread.

DrTrouserPlank is playing Original, not Maniac or God or Novice or whatever. Recommending him a harder difficulty with a completely different scoring mechanism isn't going to help.

[Sapz]

Well, given Original is the easiest mode with the most straightforward system, it seems like the best introduction to the game and so a lot of people are going to spend time with it initially. Aside from that, the best or worst mode in a game is entirely subjective barring things like huge problems with the scoring system such as DFKBL Arrange's 2/3 or so of the game's potential points from spamming hypers at Doom rather than manipulating the primary scoring system.

[Weak Boson]

Decided to have a run on Original just to see how I far I got. Died on the stage 2 boss and at the beginning of stage 3 (though I no missed the rest of the stage like a boss) and used one bomb on the stage 3 boss; in stage 4 I got cornered and died, before finally losing my last life just before the midboss as my arcade stick decided not to register the up direction. Final score 97 million. Subsequent runs included such low points as me dying at the first enemy, selecting the wrong character, and restarting from stage 3.

[Elixir]

So now people are trying to see how far they get by comparison, when all their understandings of the mode differ from each other.

Welp, I'm out!
___/

[Casper<3]

Personally I think Ultra is the worst mode.

(and if we include the DLC then both versions of Maniac mode follow that. only because since God mode, why would you ever want to play Maniac.)

[Chaos Phoenixma]

Worst mode in the port is Arrange. What a total fail mode.


As for 1.5, you can really argue any of the modes as being the best one.

Original/Ultra to me have the best scoring system. And I'm having enough fun trying to push my score when I play it. I don't think I would stop playing Original until I hit high in the 300 millions or over 400 million. And it's definitely not the worst mode when you have stuff like Maniac and Ultra.

I find Maniac scoring to be pretty bad since it's not very open with strats. The stage 2 boss milking also drags the mode way down. Which makes it not very fun for me at all. It's still funner than Ultra though as I can actually get somewhere in it.

And Ultra is just too annoying. Really, if Stage 1 wasn't so awful, I probably would spend more time on it as the next few stages are a bit funner with only a few bad parts. And Larsa is unbeatable for me in this mode anyway. I can 2 miss the first form in Practice, but then I'll die 5+ times to the TLB. So even if I no missed till Larsa with full bomb stock, I'd never win. And considering all you have to get through. The fact the mode's too hard for it's own good makes it unplayable for almost everyone.


For Black label,

Original is also great.

Maniac is actually fun in Black Label with more open ended scoring. But there's the unfortunate fact that Original has a different scoring system, While God mode is better than Maniac in every way.

And yeah, God Mode is fun too. I should get more serious about it. I never fully learned stages 2 or 3, and I got to Stage 4 a few times.

[iconoclast]

Personally, I find 1.5's Maniac mode to be vastly superior to Black Label's. In 1.5, you really have to look at the stages and figure out which enemies you can string together for a good mini-chain that leads into a big gem refill. It kinda reminds me of Ketsui, in that sense. In Black Label, pretty much everything gets your meter in the red if you just tap shot a few times, so it loses half of what makes the system really fun for me. That, and I prefer the higher difficulty of 1.5.

[Casper<3]

Worst mode in the port is Arrange. What a total fail mode.

I think we all silently agreed to forget that Arrange even exists.

[Gus]

Be honest how long have you guys actually played Ultra for? Yeah, the 1st can be annoying and cause restarts but after that the game gets a lot better. Once you have it memorized stages 2-5 are very doable and there's a lot of room to experiment with scoring. Sure on paper it's similar to Original's system but in practice it's all about getting the biggest bullet cancels you can and not dying so it basically plays like a harder, simpler version of God Mode. I do agree that the TLBs and Larsa to a lesser extent are way too hard and I'm never going to 1cc but you can still have fun with the mode.

[Casper<3]

Be honest how long have you guys actually played Ultra for? Yeah, the 1st can be annoying and cause restarts but after that the game gets a lot better. Once you have it memorized stages 2-5 are very doable and there's a lot of room to experiment with scoring. Sure on paper it's similar to Original's system but in practice it's all about getting the biggest bullet cancels you can and not dying so it basically plays like a harder, simpler version of God Mode. I do agree that the TLBs and Larsa to a lesser extent are way too hard and I'm never going to 1cc but you can still have fun with the mode.

I've spent a bit of time with Ultra before deciding I really don't like it. At least not as much as all the other modes. I didn't just credit feed through once and say this sucks.

[Sumez]

I don't see any reason NOT to play for score in Original when going for 1CC - isn't it just switching shots every 500 points and staying close to the enemies you shoot?

[JOW]

I don't see any reason NOT to play for score in Original when going for 1CC - isn't it just switching shots every 500 points and staying close to the enemies you shoot?

...plus the sucking in of Green Auras by releasing laser when in laser mode and the specific milking spots (stage 2 icicles, stage 3 hives) and stage 5 lanterns.

I also try and manipulate the shot switching so that I shoot ground enemies with C-shot. I'm under the impression that this results in green ground gems that add a lot to your counter. Although I've not confirmed this - any experts know for sure?

In direct answer to your question of NOT playing for score, I've read on this forum somewhere that some players deliberately keep the counter low during the first 3 levels - hence keeping the rank down and giving them a cheesey 1CC. Disgraceful behaviour

[Sumez]

Well to be honest, that doesn't sound like such a bad idea, if you're having a hard time with the game at high rank.
(cheap/cheesy yeah, but the game is deliberately designed this way)

As far as my knowledge goes, green gems are based entirely on your proximity to the enemy?

[Sapz]

I also try and manipulate the shot switching so that I shoot ground enemies with C-shot. I'm under the impression that this results in green ground gems that add a lot to your counter. Although I've not confirmed this - any experts know for sure?

The ground gems will appear whether you use the laser or the regular shot, but once they appear you want to use the laser ASAP to quickly suck them in as green gems. The small ones are worth 5 while the large ones are worth 10 (compared with 1 for small normal gems and 2 for large normal gems), and these get increased to 10 and 20 respectively if they're green. This is especially important for the stage 4 centipedes which spawn a lot of these.

The only spots where using C-shot makes extra gems spawn are killing the third boss (results in some large ground gems) and killing the fourth midboss with the web still alive (which results in the web turning into large regular gems).

As far as my knowledge goes, green gems are based entirely on your proximity to the enemy?

You collect a gem as it's green by collecting the gem within a certain time of it spawning - I don't have any exact numbers but I'd say something like 40-60 frames. How close you were to the enemy isn't the important thing here, but of course it'll help since you're so close to the gems to start with and can collect them quickly.

Hope this helps.

[Icarus]

I also think that peoples' predictions of what their success rates would be when just trying to clear the game are very bullish as well. Seeing as there doesn't appear to be any real data on this, my impression is that people got their clear and then ran the hell away before the game got another chance to beat them.

I just got back from 10 days in Barcelona (at the time of writing it is 17.45, and I stepped off the plane at 15.10). I'm sleep deprived (had about two hours sleep this morning), about to eat something, have a quick shower, then reel off ten quick credits to see what my percentage of all clears are. I'll be using my "Icarus ver101" alternate XBLA tag so I can save every replay from this little session, as my saved replay list on my primary tag is a little chaotic.

I haven't played Futari (or anything else for that matter) since April, and I'm quite rusty at the moment, but I reckon that I can manage about 40% of all credits cleared. I'm doing this because there's nothing bullish about knowing your own capabilities and limits, and because it fucks me off when someone uses their scrubbiness and incompetence as an excuse to belittle the accomplishments of others.

I'll post updates on my Twitter account as I get down to business in the next few hours, and the full breakdown later tonight.

[Sapz]

Hahahaha, excellent, I'll look forward to the results.

[third_strike]

I also think that peoples' predictions of what their success rates would be when just trying to clear the game are very bullish as well. Seeing as there doesn't appear to be any real data on this, my impression is that people got their clear and then ran the hell away before the game got another chance to beat them.

After read a ocean of bull**** in this topic I played black label maniac a get the 1cc in my first try, and I am very bad to all clear. Here is my tips:
1st. Se concentra e senta.
2nd. If you can't, just bomb.

[dunpeal2064]

Finaaly have a reason to make a Twitter account

[Chaos Phoenixma]

Are these runs going to be with the same shottypes, or spread amongst them?

[Icarus]

Are these runs going to be with the same shottypes, or spread amongst them?

For consistency I'll be running through with my preferred Reco (Normal).

[Gus]

I don't get the big deal being made about DTP's 1 in 100 comments. We all have different methods of getting high scores. When I play I restart like a fucking madman and to the point that it often takes several hours before I get a satisfactory run of the first 3 stages and plenty more before I get anything I consider a decent run at all. But none of that means shit when you take a look at my high scores. Perseverance is a skill.

[dunpeal2064]

Because he was implying that statistic applies to others, not just himself. He refuses to see that others could manhandle a game that he finds entirely luck-based and impossible.

He practically called Sapz and Icarus liars, and said everything he could to discredit their accomplishments

[DrTrouserPlank]

He practically called Sapz and Icarus liars, and said everything he could to discredit their accomplishments

I did nothing of the sort.

I pointed out that assuming you can clear the game a high percentage of the time just because you have a high score or have played it a lot was probably misguided because (as much as people want to believe they are in total control) luck is still a massive factor in clearing this game on any single run.

I still think this game is bullshit and I know I'll never clear it; partly because it is unreasonable and partly because the chances of getting to Larsa with 4-5 lives intact are close to zero no matter how many times you run it.

I could have probably cleared 2 games in the amount of time I have wasted on this one; and am still maybe 40-60 hours away from clearing it despite the stupid amounts of time it has eaten up. Progress has been painstaking and slow on the whole and most of it seems to be chance and session by session luck rather than a consistent improvement through knowing the stages. This is probably because mistakes are just too easy to make and you have no spare lives to play with at all.

It has been an utterly pointless and fruitless journey that has probably seen me spent some 20-40 joyless hours trying to accomplish something that is well beyond ridiculous and as far as I'm concerned beyond anything that practice alone can achieve.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

It's a lot easier to take out Larsa with an Abnormal type than it is with a Normal type. Getting to her is harder with Reco's Abnormal though. Palm's Abnormal on the other side of things is easier to do than Palm's Normal type. And does Palm Normal even have any redeeming qualities?

[RNGmaster]

I still think this game is bullshit and I know I'll never clear it; partly because it is unreasonable and partly because the chances of getting to Larsa with 4-5 lives intact are close to zero no matter how many times you run it.

You suck. Get better. If there's one thing that you keep messing up on, try it a different way.
There is nothing that Sapz and Icarus can do that you can't do. The only thing holding you back from being able to play on their level is that you make excuses for your lack of skill rather than learning from your failures.

And if you still haven't read Full Extent of the Jam, I'm just going to stop talking and give up. Seriously, you're driving away even the most patient and helpful people on this forum.

[dunpeal2064]

Then stop playing, because you still obviously don't get it.

And contrary to what you may think you are saying, you are practiacally calling them liars, as they have accomplished many of the things that you are still claiming as IMPOSSIBLE or LUCK-BASED, saying that WE (from your perspective YOU) would need 4-5 lives to accomplish a 1cc, and that the chances of that are near zero

Its silly, I should just stop responding to you, as its borderline getting trolled.

[DrTrouserPlank]

I still think this game is bullshit and I know I'll never clear it; partly because it is unreasonable and partly because the chances of getting to Larsa with 4-5 lives intact are close to zero no matter how many times you run it.

You suck. Get better. If there's one thing that you keep messing up on, try it a different way.
There is nothing that Sapz and Icarus can do that you can't do. The only thing holding you back from being able to play on their level is that you make excuses for your lack of skill rather than learning from your failures.

And if you still haven't read Full Extent of the Jam, I'm just going to stop talking and give up. Seriously, you're driving away even the most patient and helpful people on this forum.

I read it a while back, and as I've said (other than Larsa taking 4-5 lives) there's no one situation that causes me trouble but I'll still lose all my lives by the St5Boss. Different places every time, every game. I doubt I've lost two lives in the same spot of a very long time now. How do you train that? "work on your consistency"? well you can't work on consistency really, other than sink hundreds more hours into the game, and even then you aren't guaranteed results as I've already demonstrated.

It doesn't matter and I'm pretty much resigned to it now. Not being able to clear it is far less annoying if you just say "screw it" than when you are seriously trying to make progress and sinking hours into it with little improvement to show.