What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

[Josh128]

I'm playing roguelikes. I found a cool one called Shadowed that I'm messing with right now. It's a ninja roguelike! You pick your flavor of ninjer and you go. Enemies are yokai, spirits, zombie ashigaru, that kind of thing. The game also has some fun neutral/non-hostile encounters that create a little bit of rpg/adventure game atmosphere. Like, you can hold onto your pickled vegetables and give them to Kappa for some free items.

The game has surprisingly good controller support for Steam Deck, although I THINK a couple of functions are unmapped that I'll need to find and map. This strikes me as the kind of game BIL would like, as it's NINJA SCROLL X SAIGO NO NINDO X ROGUELIKE. It doesn't have a lot of hard action, but you can still murder demons with your katana.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2825 ... le_of_Ooe/

The game is so Japanese that it actually booted in japanese for me with kanji everywhere and almost no English. The second time I booted it, it was in English suddenly with no explanation. I didn't see any region option anywhere so I guess the game just detects how much of a BAKA GAIJIN you are when you start it up.

The barrier to entry on systems and gameplay here is probably higher than Shiren but it services a similar niche imo. I didn't even mention how the "ninja" theme isn't skin-deep. You have actual stealth mechanics in this game and different classes are better or worse at stealth. Shinobi (class) is a good mix of stealthy + cutting fools up when they backtalk. But there are other classes like Iga Ninja and Kunoichi that specialize into other aspects of the game. You can take Ronin if you've had enough of sneaking and only want to kill everything.

Sounds intriguing. This is available on Steam?

[Sima Tuna]

Via the steam link I posted yeah.

[XoPachi]

Prey is the closest analogue to a System Shock 3 we will ever get.

Bioshock was heavily consolized and lacking much of the depth of the SS2 character building, which Prey largely added back in. Other shit, like enemies being actually dangerous/scary and resources having to be managed, are present in Prey but not Bioshock.

Prey was also the last good Arkane game imo.

If you enjoy roguelite modes, Mooncrash is interesting. It's Prey 2017 gameplay but with randomization and diablo loot progression iirc.

I hate BioShock. lol
It was so boring. Prey mogs it so hard for me. It's not at all close.

I think I might have to play the game on higher difficulties though. I don't actually think build depth was particularly strong since nothing really synergizes with anything else in a way that's particularly interesting. They're kind of just really basic Skyrim perks that stack linear passives. And eventually you get to a point where nothing can answer you until you get to Dahl and the Military Operators don't stop spawning. In the early game you definitely need to be thoughtful, but it's not really a matter of specing to *do* anything. It's really just a lot of unlocking keys.
Upgrading weapons is again, passives. There's no "upgrade this and suddenly the weapon behaves differently". You just patch it's stats to be as effective as it's supposed to be. Which is a shame because there's only 5 guns in the game.

The world and the enemies were definitely the best part though. For a LONG time things are absolutely dangerous, yes. And it's interesting because just like guns, there's not a lot of enemy types. But what the enemies do is enough to be a problem if there's more than one. They do very unique things and can be hard to track. Mimics are brilliant as dynamic disruptors to get you in trouble with real threats like Technopaths or Etheral Phantoms if you're not mindful of what they could be turned into. And the Nightmare is the best "thing that dynamically chases you" I've ever seen in a game where that isn't the point. I wish more people made stuff like this. I could go on singing it's praises. That was terrific.

[Sumez]

Prey was a lot of fun, feels somewhere inbetween Bioshock and System Shock 2 to me, using elements from both.

I've never thought of Bioshock as any kind of successor to System Shock however, even though it was marketed as that prior to its release - the two have next to nothing in common. Prey fits the bill however, maybe the only game that really does.

[AGermanArtist]

Seems to be anything in a first person perspective that involves a persistent narrative, shooting, but also exploration, backtracking and so on gets associated with System Shock for convenience. I really enjoyed Prey, the Mooncrash DLC less so. I recall spending hours on a particular section only to get ambushed right at the end of the mission w/out any warning. Totally writing off 5hrs of gameplay. Uninstalled instantly.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

System Shock really was the first noteworthy one to feature a massive, open map structure with many puzzles to solve, items to collect, and so. It also specifically did not have discrete levels; you often had to go back and retract your steps. Makes sense that a lot of similar games would have the same kind of feeling, no other FPS really did what it does before.

Blake Stone is an earlier game that does allow for backtracking using the elevators if I remember right, but it's not necessary and levels play out in a linear fashion with each one being about finding the key to reach the next floor.

Wrath of Earth is a similarly complex game but it's broken down into definite levels with no backtracking. The levels are massive and sprawling, usually with several puzzles, but it wasn't a game that had much industry influence or noteworthiness despite being quite neat.

Quake II actually has some backtracking in that you'll go back through areas you've been to previous to clear out levels but these are typically very small segments and it's still largely broken up into individual levels.

[vol.2]

Still haven't played SS 2, but the first game is great. It's funny people are dunking on Bioshock so much here because I am more used to a positive attitude towards it. It kind of makes me go back and think about why exactly I stopped playing it before I finished and what it does or doesn't have in common with SS.

I guess the main thing about Bioshock I didn't like was that it felt kind of slow and repetitive. I also didn't much get into the combat of Bioshock and was not overly interested in the story or characters.

I supposed that the main similarities between the two games are the setting (swap a space station for a underwater station) and the whole bio augmentation angle. Both stories have generally dystopian future themes and both games are first person action adventure shooterish things. I think it's safe to say they definitely have similarities, even if they diverge on some really important elements. They are more similar to each other from a broader genre perspective than anything else.

SS (the first game) was more immediately intriguing to me and I really enjoyed piecing the story together through the video recordings left on the station. Sure the combat was fairly primitive, but I felt like it was surprisingly playable for a game like that in its day. I can't remember if it had mouselook out of the box, but it certainly did before too long, and it works pretty well with WASD and mouse. The music and vibes were immaculate.

Bioshock felt like a slog to me before too long, and I stopped playing maybe 5 hours in. I wasn't especially taken with the music, the aesthetics or the story.

Interesting about the newer Prey game. I had no idea that it was worth checking out. Thanks for the rec

[drauch]

Bioshock also has the revival chambers for when you die. I don't equate the games as equals by any means, but I do think they have a lot of similarities with narrative (voice logs), backtracking, revival chambers, machines for ammo/meds, etc.

I loved it when it came out, but revisiting something like 5 years ago or so I was taken aback at how stupid it treats the player. There's a giant arrow at the top telling you where to go at all times. Granted, you can turn this off iirc, but it's there by default. But things you can't avoid is the little voice, Atlas, telling you what to do. There's just no discovery in the game. Oh, you have fire now? See that clearly flammable substance on the floor? Shoot it to kill these guys. Ah, you have lightning now! See those guys in the water -- shock them! See how they're stunned now? Now you can beat them! Yadda yadda. It really took me out of it.

It also has a bit of an identity crisis, going from bleak murder and corruption to carnival machines that dispense weapons and these Fallout-knock off advertisements on your plasmids, the 'sorcery' of the game. It just comes across as completely illogical and stupid, like this dystopia was ruined because we mass-marketed pyromancy and shit.

[To Far Away Times]

I loved Bioshock. But you have to take it for what it is. It is not really trying to be System Shock 2 Part 2. Bioshock is a fairly early entry into more modern AAA game design, whereas System Shock 2 is really from a different era with different expectations.

Bioshock shares some similarities and has some nods to System Shock 2, but at its core it really doesn’t play all that much like its inspiration.

[vol.2]

I think it's not as good as people thought it was at the time. It drew a mystique from the lexicon of PC gaming, and was one of those early big crossover games that made it into console land mostly unscathed. A big part of it's reputation was built on that. Sort of like how Portal really took off because of the Orange Box.

Giving it a little more thought, I was bored and disappointed by Bioshock in a way that was very similar to the reaction I had to Fallout 3. Of course it didn't have the awful, unskippable hour and half long introduction that FO3 had. Not saying that they were the same exactly, but that I felt similarly meh about both of them. A kind of worst-parts-of-both-worlds that came from the early melding of PC gaming and console audience demands and hardware limiations

[m.sniffles.esq]

I liked Bioshock for how grand and unabashedly nutty the whole thing was

That said, I always thought the actual game under all the grand, unabashed nuttiness was kinda 'meh'. But ultimately, it didn't matter, as it showed possibilities beyond stone and metal corridors, if you know what I mean. And I think that's what the majority of people responded to.

[guigui]

I dont play much FPS or 1st person perspective games in general, and Bioshock must be the only game in this genre that I finished, during the mid 2010's I think.

At first I was all hype about the mysterious settings, story unraveling with items, quite new combat system to me. Then as it stretched out the game started to feel boring to me, to the point that I rushed the end, did not read story anymore, and killed the final boss by lowering the difficulty iirc. I was kind of relieved when it was over.

More recently I tried BS Infinite, played for like 30 minutes but still could not gripe with it. This is just too slow to introduce you to the fights, mechanics, characters and such, and I suck at aiming with a dpad. I guess I am just not patient enough, and the FPS genre is not for me. Maybe something like modern dooms would suit me better for more action and less wandering ?

[To Far Away Times]

When you break down the game play of Bioshock into it's basic elements it's a fairly standard sort of affair, but you can do that for just about any game.

But Bioshock made me feel something, ya know? The world was so cool, and it felt like the game had something to say. The whole "would you kindly" thing was clever and could only work in a video game. There's some meta commentary on game design within the game. I think it's cool.

And the world building was A+. I'd find myself wondering how the splicers got to be drug addicts. How that world fell apart into chaos. I dunno, I think there's some real craftsmanship in delivering on a strong artistic vision.

[Sumez]

System Shock really was the first noteworthy one to feature a massive, open map structure with many puzzles to solve, items to collect, and so. It also specifically did not have discrete levels; you often had to go back and retract your steps. Makes sense that a lot of similar games would have the same kind of feeling, no other FPS really did what it does before.

Blake Stone is an earlier game that does allow for backtracking using the elevators if I remember right, but it's not necessary and levels play out in a linear fashion with each one being about finding the key to reach the next floor.

Wrath of Earth is a similarly complex game but it's broken down into definite levels with no backtracking. The levels are massive and sprawling, usually with several puzzles, but it wasn't a game that had much industry influence or noteworthiness despite being quite neat.

Quake II actually has some backtracking in that you'll go back through areas you've been to previous to clear out levels but these are typically very small segments and it's still largely broken up into individual levels.

It's kind of interesting that Doom was originally supposed to be like that. They just eventually decided it would be a better game to have it be a more straight forward set of action-focused stages.

Like, this was never really a technical restriction as it may seem when you look back on it. It just wasn't considered that there'd be much of an audience for that kind of game.

[Sumez]

More recently I tried BS Infinite, played for like 30 minutes but still could not gripe with it. This is just too slow to introduce you to the fights, mechanics, characters and such, and I suck at aiming with a dpad. I guess I am just not patient enough, and the FPS genre is not for me. Maybe something like modern dooms would suit me better for more action and less wandering ?

For all the issues one might point at Bioshock 1, Bioshock Infinite has it worse in every regard. It's just incredibly not fun to play, and the story is many more times as embarassing. It looks great, though.

I think a game of sort of similar ambition (genre blend of FPS action, some stealth, and lots of pace changes with story exposition and exploration), Wolfensten: The New Order is a much, much.. much, MUCH better game. It does what Bioshock Infinite tries, but is actually fun to play. And it doesn't take itself too seriously, which helps. For as much of a fanfare as Infinite arrived to, it's kinda criminal that TNO was never as celebrated.

But if you want something else with more of a straight up action focus, yeah Doom Eternal is your man! It's really like no other FPS game ever made. Not like your typical AAA FPS, and not like the old school ones either. It's not even like Doom 2016

[Marc]

I've just started Turbo Overkill - very early on so far, but this finally feels like the Duke 3D follow up I always wanted.

[Lord British]

Burned up 30min of Neon Inferno, and so far it's a pretty great game. I totally welcome the novelty off adding Cabal/Wild Guns-esque gallery shooting mechanics into a classic run 'n gun. Graphics are gorgeous.

[Xan]

Playing Dark Savior, which I had wanted to do for years purely off of screenshots, based on it being sort of a Landstalker follow-up, and being in the Xenogears/BoF3/Grandia graphical style, which was very short-lived. There obviously is a resemblance to Landstalker, but they had some very different ideas for this game.

I like the graphics and music, but the gameplay I'm not so sure about. "Disjointed" or "hollow" are the words that come to mind for me. Feels like the game strongly focuses on the story and the platforming sections are merely linear tunnels inbetween story segments. Which is kind of a shame because they clearly tried to have some graphical variety there. This is made worse by the fights, first time seeing "round 2" and "KO" is where I realized they really wanted to make them a simplistic button mashing beat 'em up thing. I don't think the capturing system really helps much, either. Not that the combat in Landstalker was that great, but that game having proper dungeons and a sense of exploration definitely helped.

What I especially don't like is that they made the controls that much worse compared to Landstalker by adding that momentum, and combined with the game now punishing you for failing at the platforming, seems like they felt they had to artificially get more mileage out of those platforming sections. I don't think the game sucks though, but it's a weird experimental game that I would not unequivocally recommend. Quite a bit like the Oasis games actually, trying to mash several genres together. I would have preferred this one to be more conventional and I think it would have been warranted on the system because Shining Wisdom isn't very good from what I have heard.

Edit: well, beat the game, it's only a 9 hour max game and you're supposed to play it several times for the different endings. Figured this was exactly what this was going to be just based on the optional timer on the first stage, though reading up on it now, apparently that timer is actually all that changes the ending. I figured at least some of the decisions that you make during the game would have an impact on the ending.

I guess it's fine for what it is, still enjoyed it despite the lack of gameplay depth and constant fighting with the controls. Certainly the odd one out compared to Landstalker and Alundra though.

[guigui]

More recently I tried BS Infinite, played for like 30 minutes but still could not gripe with it. This is just too slow to introduce you to the fights, mechanics, characters and such, and I suck at aiming with a dpad. I guess I am just not patient enough, and the FPS genre is not for me. Maybe something like modern dooms would suit me better for more action and less wandering ?

For all the issues one might point at Bioshock 1, Bioshock Infinite has it worse in every regard. It's just incredibly not fun to play, and the story is many more times as embarassing. It looks great, though.

I think a game of sort of similar ambition (genre blend of FPS action, some stealth, and lots of pace changes with story exposition and exploration), Wolfensten: The New Order is a much, much.. much, MUCH better game. It does what Bioshock Infinite tries, but is actually fun to play. And it doesn't take itself too seriously, which helps. For as much of a fanfare as Infinite arrived to, it's kinda criminal that TNO was never as celebrated.

But if you want something else with more of a straight up action focus, yeah Doom Eternal is your man! It's really like no other FPS game ever made. Not like your typical AAA FPS, and not like the old school ones either. It's not even like Doom 2016

Thank you for the input sumez. Wolfenstein, I only have access to The Now Colossus on the NSW. Is it recommended as The New Order is ?
I also have Doom Eternal, will definitely launch it at some point.

[m.sniffles.esq]

Bioshock Infinite is...

Well... Firstly, I admire the fact it didn't go the path of "Hey kids, you loved Rapture! Well now we're going BACK to Rapture for even BIGGER adventures!" that's de rigueur for video game sequels (and they certainly could have, because plenty of people shelled out $60 for Bioshock II and would have gladly done it again for III) and instead went into a whole 'nother enchilada.

Second, either they took the complaints that Bioshock was excessively drawn out too much to heart, or it was kicked out the door (probably the latter), because it climaxed with a very abrupt "wait, that's it??". With that said, I was really into the fact that it at least attempted to culminate in something existential and genuinely moving (whether or not it achieved this is a matter of debate). Again, showing possibilities in video games beyond the "gee, that character sacrificed themselves for the greater good. Isn't that sad yet oh, so noble?" sentiment that's the norm.

[To Far Away Times]

Bioshock Infinite is fairly mid. The Last of Us came out shortly after and Bioshock Infinite was basically forgotten about after that…

This will be a fairly controversial take but I actually liked Bioshock 2 a lot more than Infinite. Bioshock 2 makes some big gameplay improvements over the original, and the multiplayer component was done by none other than Digital Extremes (Timesplitters devs, and they had some devs from the N64 GoldenEye 007 team). I don’t normally play online multiplayer shooters but I maxed out the leveling system in that one. It plays a lot faster than the base game and you can zip around with the plasmids and environmental interactivity. It was sort of a cross of GoldenEye 007 and Call of Duty 4 with Bioshock set dressing and plasmids. It was certainly a product of its time but it was super fun.

[m.sniffles.esq]

This will be a fairly controversial take but I actually liked Bioshock 2 a lot more than Infinite

I don't remember much of anything about Bioshock 2. It could be better, I could offer no argument against.

I guess since it lacked the 'new' factor of the first or infinite, it pretty much evaporated from my mind. I don't think I ever finished it, at least

Bioshock Infinite is fairly mid. The Last of Us came out shortly after and Bioshock Infinite was basically forgotten about after that

Now THERE'S a memorable sequel

"Press 'x' to slit person's throat"

*presses 'x'*

"How could you do such a thing!!??!? What kind of monster would press 'x'???? What's wrong with you??? Why didn't you put the controller down? Why didn't turn the PlayStation off? Why didn't you walk outside, find a stranger to embrace, and tell them that you love them????"

"Uh, because I had no other choice, I paid $60 for the fucking game you're constantly scolding me for playing, and I'm trying to get my money's worth out of this miserable experience"

[Sima Tuna]

Bioshock 2's gameplay was an upgraded version of Bioshock 1, with better gunplay and more enjoyable plasmids. But the story was a mess. I think the reason Infinite went away from the ocean and Rapture is because the writers realized they had run out of anything interesting to say about Rapture and its inhabitants. The characters in Bioshock 2 were very bland. Bioshock has a problem with stereotyping/ham-handed caricatures compared to System Shock 2. Bioshock 2 was just more of "hey, what about this political ideology but a more extreme version of it???" Only extended to other beliefs than anarcho-capitalism. Did you know that extremist communism is dumb? Woah.

What makes Rapture and Bioshock 1 work is Andrew Ryan's charisma. He's over the top but he has the "aura," as the kids would say. You walk into that room at the beginning of the game and the floodlights hit the words, "No Gods, No Kings, Only Man." Chills.

Take Andrew Ryan out of Bioshock and it's just some console shooter with light rpg elements (VERY light) and okayish writing that can't hold a candle to SS2. Prey isn't on SS2's level as far as the writing goes, but the general framework of the game and themes is a lot closer. Others have already described the way that enemies work in Prey. In Bioshock, stealth is almost a total afterthought (I say this having done an entire Bioshock playthrough with a stealth build) and the majority of enemies are hitscanners who aggro before they see you. There are a few ways to combo plasmids but the best ones are forced down the player's throat in tutorial. Other shit is just kinda there and obvious.

Pipe game is fine but it's dumb. Bioshock 2's equivalent is real-time (which is good!) but not as much fun as a minigame. Swings and roundabouts.

Taking pictures makes little sense but it's fun at least.

In my opinion, the majority of the plasmids in both games lack creativity compared to the first 4 or so you get. Shock, fire, telekinesis and freeze feel like the only ones that had serious dev time put into them and how they work. The hacking plasmid is just a meter/time trade, spending your magic resource instead of time playing the pipe game or paying money. Bioshock adds some plasmid traps but... Meh. Bioshock 2 also introduced these scripted defense segments, straight out of a multiplayer game. Where you have to protect little sister from swarms of splicers. Gears of Horde Mode Shock.

The biggest problem with Prey 2017 compared to System Shock 2 and Bioshock is there's no central antagonist to pin a stunning performance on, which would then drive the whole story forward. System Shock has SHODAN, System Shock 2 has SHODAN and The Many. Bioshock has Andrew Ryan. Prey has... I guess your fat brother from the intro? And Bioshock 2 has Sophia Lamb, who is boring and lame.

[aak]

Taiko no Tatsujin, after not playing rhythm games for a while. Fun! I really like how the patterns make you alternate your hands in interesting ways, it's really satisfying once it clicks. Now I'm thinking of getting a Sound Voltex controller... Chunithm also seems really fun but the price for that is a bit more prohibitive and I don't think I have any monitors that'd line up with the controller exactly right. Sadly have no Round1s near me so can't really try it before putting in such a huge investment. Also, with a Sound Voltex controller I could use the knobs for paddle games like Arkanoid.

[XoPachi]

I feel like if I liked any BioShock, it would be 2. However, I'm not playing it on consoles and the last time I tried it on Steam, it didn't work.
I did not know the multiplayer was ex Rare guys.

[vol.2]

Finished Ion Fury Aftershock. For DLC, it's 10/10. Good level design, lots of secrets, excellent challenge. It's old school Build Engine hard but tweaked.


I looked into the sequel, Phantom Fury, and it definitely looks awful and is nothing like this retro Build Engine goodness. Very disappointing.

[Sumez]

Thank you for the input sumez. Wolfenstein, I only have access to The Now Colossus on the NSW. Is it recommended as The New Order is ?

I have some memory of people having issues with The New Colossus, but I don't remember what it is, and I haven't played it myself, so I can't speak for it.
I think it at least tries to be more in the same vein though. Those games were made by some of the same people behind the Riddick games going forward to the new Indiana Jones I believe.

[drauch]

Finished Ion Fury Aftershock. For DLC, it's 10/10. Good level design, lots of secrets, excellent challenge. It's old school Build Engine hard but tweaked.


I looked into the sequel, Phantom Fury, and it definitely looks awful and is nothing like this retro Build Engine goodness. Very disappointing.

Aftershock is so good. Phantom Fury is unfortunately a different developer, hence the shit. They've done a bunch of poor performers like the original Bombshell, Graven, and that Kingpin Remaster. Such a bummer, because that initial trailer seemed the stuff of dreams, like that unreleased DNF we got 20+ years ago or whatever.

[vol.2]

I have some memory of people having issues with The New Colossus, but I don't remember what it is, and I haven't played it myself, so I can't speak for it.
I think it at least tries to be more in the same vein though. Those games were made by some of the same people behind the Riddick games going forward to the new Indiana Jones I believe.

Interesting. I hadn't put that together. I thought Butcher Bay was great. Dark Athena was fairly mid, but I finished it anyway. It was an easy enough game to plow through. Haven't tried any of the newer Wolfenstein games, but I really liked Return to Castle Wolfenstein from 2002. It was a great stand-alone game.

[TransatlanticFoe]

New Colossus is a mess. The New Order was excellent, stealth was well implemented but when it went to shit you got some great firefights - popping out of cover, hunting down the commander to silence the alarm.

That all went out of the window with New Colossus. It's like they styled it after NuDoom but without any of the player mobility and enemy design to go with it. Stealth is virtually impossible due to enemy patrol placements. Set off an alarm and everyone just makes a beeline for you with guns blazing, tossing grenades if you stand still - so no firefights in/out of cover. It's hide round a corner and wait for them to run into your gunsights. And then there's the courtroom: a dream sequence of all things, where you're dropped with no cover into a deluge of hitscan attacks. If you make it out there's no more cover so it's hope you survive long enough for it to end. I have no idea how they got it so wrong.