XRGB-mini Framemeister

[fubarduck]

So I picked up one of these on my last trip from Japan - discounted at that, the retailer had dropped the price to around 32,000 yen. Still expensive with the awful exchange rate, but glad I picked one up.

I noticed a VERY strange behavior - I hooked up the Framemeister to my DVDO Edge to make things simple. Played some 240p Mario NES/SNES titles via Virtual Console (Wii set to 480i), and I noticed some lag. My Framemeister was only reporting 1.59ms on the processing time, so I thought this was very odd.

Checked my DVDO Edge processing time (via the audio delay slider) and it was at . . . 25ms!! This is with Game Mode ON (it goes even higher with Game Mode OFF), and the Edge getting a 720p/60 signal via HDMI! Normally this results in a 6ms delay for 720p/60 content (360/PS3) so I wondered what the hell was going on.

I went to my Wii's system menu (which is 480i) and the Edge was back down to 8ms. I then changed the Wii output to 480p (which also causes Virtual Console games to output 480p) and was down to my normal 6ms on the Edge - including within the same VC console games going through the Framemeister. Of course, then I am losing the Framemeister's beautiful 240p processing.

It appears that, for some odd reason, the DVDO Edge processing time for 720p signals bumps up to 25ms . . . but ONLY when it's receiving processed 240p content from the Framemeister, output at any resolution; I tried 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p!!!

Looking at you Fudoh, do you have ANY idea why the Edge would exhibit this kind of behavior? It's a real bummer that I can't run my Framemeister through the Edge, since I really wanted to play some 240p content on this sucker!

[Fudoh]

Chaining the Mini and the Edge is completely unneccessary, unless your TV in unable to properly upscale 720p to it's native panel resolution. This said, these problems on the Edge were discussed in the past, not even Framemeister-related. With certain sources, no matter if 240p or 480p it can happen that the Edge jumps to those 25ms. I think to remember that somebody noticed this with a MD/Genesis as a 15khz RGBs source. I don't know what's causing this.

But since measuring the delay of a VP30 I don't trust the DVDO's delay "report" anymore, since the VP30 was lagging more than 25ms even when set to gamemode and even with the delay slider showing only 6ms. I also found the Mini's delay display inaccurate, as I get about 1.5 frames of delay from the Mini (but that might be limited to certain sources).

[BuckoA51]

The Edge's zoom/pan controls are much nicer than the Mini's so that's one reason to chain them, but yeah I don't bother personally. Yes it was my Megadrive that did this, either directly to the Edge or through the XRGB3 first.

[BuckoA51]

Really? I'm just after watching this guy's review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p89I-HVqU28 and he seemed to think having the SLG in line was the way to go.

He's mistaken, doesn't really know what he's talking about, he's even using S-video and composite with his consoles rather than RGB. I suspect he tried the Meister's scanlines in 1080p mode and that's why he thinks they look bad.

[Fudoh]

haha, I started watching the ginger's review, but stopped when he mentioned that the included JP21 to MiniDin8 was nice for european buyers and that the connector in the back might be a DSub one with multiple purposes

[Zapf]

How does someone end up buying a $400 xrgb unit, only to use it with composite and s-video

[RGB32E]

While likely not a XRGB-mini issue, has anyone else noticed when playing The Last Story that the bottom 3 or 4 rows of pixels are bright green? I'm using an early Wii with the official D-Terminal cable. For now I've just adjusted the V_POS setting (32 -> 27). Anyone used a different setting to mask this? IIRC Metroid Other M had a similar issue.

That XRGB-mini YT review was interesting. I seem to recall there was someone else on the XRGB-3 thread that thought S-Video from the Saturn and SNES was good enough or preferable to RGB... So, I guess it happens where people use S-Video or composite instead of RGB!

[BuckoA51]

I can't get the Wii to look very good on the Mini at all, I've stuck to my old XRGB3->DVDO Edge transcoding setup. What settings are you using for the scaler with the Wii?, I'm curious to try this for myself.

[Konsolkongen]

Wii at 480p, Mini at 1080p and use smartx2. Connecto to your EDGE, use EDGE to zoom = Win.

Try a sharp looking Wii game like Klonoa or Kirby 2. It should look awesome.

[Konsolkongen]

Someone mentioned earlier that he had a problem using a PAL PS2 to play US/JAP PS1 games in 60Hz. I too can confirm this, and it happens for me on both fat and slim models. The problem only seems to be when using component cables, using RGB it seems to work just fine all the time.
240p on PS2 games like ESPgaluda is no problem in either component or RGB

[papa_november]

The X68000 works. I'll get photos soon, but the VGA mode is fully functional with NO cutting off of the picture.

It does freak out quite a bit if a game goes to RGB mode though - when that happens you have to turn off auto sync to get it to display anything. It's certainly better than having to blindly fumble through the game's menus to switch the system's output back to VGA, which is what I had to do whenever I hooked the system up to a VGA monitor.

Aspect ratio is an issue, but aspect ratio has always been an issue on the X68000, even on combo CRT monitors. It would be really neat to have totally programmable presets on the Framemeister, and it would be neater still for someone to make an English label cutout for the remote.

The remote is totally third-party by the way; most cheapo IR remotes are. They're typically made-to-order with the only big customizations being the button labels and IR codes. If we can find out who the OEM for this thing is, maybe we can get a template for making a new button label cutout for it.

[Konsolkongen]

It would be really neat to have totally programmable presets on the Framemeister, and it would be neater still for someone to make an English label cutout for the remote.

The remote is totally third-party by the way; most cheapo IR remotes are. They're typically made-to-order with the only big customizations being the button labels and IR codes. If we can find out who the OEM for this thing is, maybe we can get a template for making a new button label cutout for it.

I actually worked on that a few months ago. But that was before I did a total format of my desktop PC. The files may still be in my backup HDD though. I can look into that if anyone is interested.

[ryu]

does this thing really only have a hdmi output?

[pyrotek85]

does this thing really only have a hdmi output?

Yeah just HDMI for output.

[Konsolkongen]

Dunno if we covered this in the past, but PC-Engine Core Grafx with NJM amp and composite sync works flawlessly with the Mini

http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:nes_rgb_amplifier

[Artemio]

Has anyone tried the N64 and NES with the NJM? I sourced enough NJM to change my amps, but still haven't found the time to do so,

[Konsolkongen]

The screenshot in my link is actually from Metroid on NES. The system is owned by RGB32E who posted some screenshots awhile ago. It looks absolutely brilliant.
In my NES I used the THS amp. It's smaller and produces a very nice picture too

[CkRtech]

Hey all -

Picked up this thing after chewing on it for most of this year. It arrived today while I was at work. Naturally, I drove home during lunch to try it out.

I hooked up an NTSC US launch SNES, and I didn't see a thing. Using the same SCART cable, I have seen it work with the cheap YUV box you see all over ebay.

I noticed the Framemeister was running firmware 1.04, but I had to come back to work before applying any updates.

This thread has really grown, and I have seen scattered bits of information regarding the SNES.

I am hoping that worst case scenario - I need to replace my SNES SCART cable, but I am looking for any input (even a link to a page somewhere in this large thread) that might shed some light on things.

I'll probably try some other systems tonight just to see the XRGB in action, however the SNES is the one I have really been playing lately & was looking forward to seeing.

[BuckoA51]

Someone mentioned earlier that he had a problem using a PAL PS2 to play US/JAP PS1 games in 60Hz. I too can confirm this, and it happens for me on both fat and slim models. The problem only seems to be when using component cables, using RGB it seems to work just fine all the time.

That was me, I'm using an RGB cable and nothing I try seems to work, going to dig out my old PS1 when I get around to it.

[Zombisaurus]

I was lucky enough to receive a Xrgb-Mini as a gift.

Currently I have my US SNES hooked up via S-Video through the Xrgb-Mini... And it already looks spectacular on both my LCD and Plasma.

But I want even more!

What kind of cable should I get?
The Xrgb-Mini has a japan style rgb connector, not a euro style Scart connector, correct? Where the heck do I get one of these?

Or do I need a new system/etc?

Help me out! I got the awesome upscaler, TV, and games... Just need to hook it all up properly.

[BuckoA51]

JP21 to Euro SCART converters and SNES SCART cables are available on e-bay. Retro Console Accessories are generally considered to be the best.

[Konsolkongen]

That was me, I'm using an RGB cable and nothing I try seems to work, going to dig out my old PS1 when I get around to it.

That's very strange since RGB seems to work fine for me :/ I am running the PS2's RGB signal through my Extron matrix, but I don't think that makes any difference.

[Zombisaurus]

JP21 to Euro SCART converters and SNES SCART cables are available on e-bay. Retro Console Accessories are generally considered to be the best.

Are you saying I need both an SCART cable, and a Euro SCART to JP21 converter to be able to use my snes with the Framemeister?


Would these be good?
http://www.retro-access.com/ourshop/pro ... -SNES.html. But then I would need the euro to jp21 adapter? Any links to one?


Wouldn't it be easier to just get a Japan Super Famicom RGB Scart cable? That should work great with a us snes and the framemeister, no extra adapters, etc, right?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/300710777228

[Konsolkongen]

Wouldn't it be easier to just get a Japan Super Famicom RGB Scart cable? That should work great with a us snes and the framemeister, no extra adapters, etc, right?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/300710777228

That's right

[Zombisaurus]

Wouldn't it be easier to just get a Japan Super Famicom RGB Scart cable? That should work great with a us snes and the framemeister, no extra adapters, etc, right?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/300710777228

That's right

Great! A friend in Japan is ready to send one over.

Anything else I should be aware of? I'm going to make an English label cover for the remote, so that should help a bit... But any guides on setup? The Framemeister looks surprisingly nice straight out the box.

[pyrotek85]

Wouldn't it be easier to just get a Japan Super Famicom RGB Scart cable? That should work great with a us snes and the framemeister, no extra adapters, etc, right?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/300710777228

That's right

Great! A friend in Japan is ready to send one over.

Anything else I should be aware of? I'm going to make an English label cover for the remote, so that should help a bit... But any guides on setup? The Framemeister looks surprisingly nice straight out the box.

What region do you live in? If you're NTSC you'll have to mod the system to output the RGB signal. I think PAL can do it without modification if I remember correctly.

[BuckoA51]

Wouldn't it be easier to just get a Japan Super Famicom RGB Scart cable?

Only if all you ever want to connect is your SNES.

But then I would need the euro to jp21 adapter? Any links to one?

Retro console accessories sell them, straight adapters or you can buy one specially designed for the mini with a sync booster in it.

Anything else I should be aware of?

Try the Wiki - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB ... AMEMEISTER

What region do you live in? If you're NTSC you'll have to mod the system to output the RGB signal.

Eh? No you don't.

[pyrotek85]

What region do you live in? If you're NTSC you'll have to mod the system to output the RGB signal.

Eh? No you don't.

Ah my mistake, I had a SNES Mini which did have to be modded, I see that others do not.

[jdubs]

Guys

I'd really like to pick one of these up for my RGB'd NES, Genesis, Sega Naomi, and supergun.

A couple of questions:

1) Anyone have any luck with a RGBHV -> RGBS circuit / cable? I would need one for my Sega Naomi, which outputs 640x480 out of its VGA output.

2) Are there any good mini-din 8 switch boxes out there?


Thanks all!

Jim

[BuckoA51]

1) Be nice if someone could try this and confirm, I believe a Micomsoft engineer said it should work.
2) Haha no, you'll need to use a SCART switch and a SCART to JP21 adapter.