What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

[Lander]

Symphonia and the Gamecube have exactly the same thing going, honestly...

Yeah, it gets a few bonus points for existing before the omg two worlds twist played itself out, but didn't seem particularly outstanding when I got around to it.

I'll take that cast over the pile of cheap particle board that Vesperia calls its cast, Yuri excepted, and even he's... well, secretly an edgelord, not that there's anything wrong with that. At least he takes the initiative, and it's always super cool and highly irregular to see a rather competent main dude giving most of the battle tutorials instead of being lectured about those mechanics by someone more experienced for once.

At least Graces is on the short side for this series, so if you don't like the characters, the trip won't last long, especially if you decide not to play the f part (or play the Wii version... why though?). At least, I think it is. It's been over a decade, so maybe I'm wrong and it's really long, and Tempest and Destiny remake are definitely the super short ones. It's going to be kind of sad to replay the game knowing that Inomata-sensei died earlier this year, though.

Malik and Pascal are fun, at least; each an opposing step-or-two beyond the grounded / wacky overton window that the rest of the cast exist in. Malik's exasperated oyaji schtick leans a bit toward the self-aware isn't this (thing we're doing anyway) silly?, but he still makes a likeable audience stand-in.
And I remember Graces as pretty long, though that's including the expansion - somewhere in the region of Legendia's three-arc structure.

How is Rebirth, by the way? Always wondered about that one, but didn't want to play it with a localization guide.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

That was me with the Vesperia thing. :P

Rebirth and Destiny R are my faves of the series. I prefer Destiny R's combat, but Rebirth's is still quite good (I'm playing the English patch multiplayer with friends!) and the story and character dynamics are my fave. Rebirth's combat is unusual and seems complex initially, but once you get how it works (keep RG high when on offense, low when on defense, covers most circumstances aside from using Cool state to stagger certain bosses) it's really quite natural and easy to handle. I bought copies from Play-Asia and modchipped my PS2 to play them a decade ago with translation guides, so I suppose I could be biased? But I'm enjoying the English patch just as much as before and it seems fairly well done for Rebirth. I'd give it a strong thumbs up.

[BulletMagnet]

Though I don't much relish the thought of putting up with Asbel 'Doormat' Lhant, Cheria 'N-no baka I'm not crushing on you' Barnes and Hugo 'Nothin personnel' Oswell for another ~40 hours. The CC games just can't seem to catch a break when it comes to writing and / or characters.

As someone who's only played a couple of the Tales games but counts Graces as the personal favorite of that selection, I certainly won't argue that the cast and story are anything great, but I do think the creators deserve some credit for at least having a bit of cheeky fun with some of the tropes, especially later on in the game; my personal favorite example is how, when it comes to the contractually-obligated amnesiac character, some of the others take advantage of the situation to tell them ridiculous things and otherwise mess with them a bit, a gag I can't recall having seen appear elsewhere, which frankly seems like a missed opportunity in retrospect.

[Sima Tuna]

I like the story of Symphonia. Lloyd and Collette are somewhat annoying as characters, but Genis is an interesting video game racist and the racial themes in general are kinda awesome. How many video games will just show an old lady being full-on whipped to death, triple-tag-team style, by concentration camp guards? I don't care who you are, but the fact they were able to show it is sweet. That was on a nintendo console too. Kratos, Sheena, Genis, Presea are all interesting characters. And for a game about video game racism, it doesn't shy away from depicting all forms of video game racism. How many times will you hear "inferior beings" when YOU play? The world may never know...

I've always said that the fantasy/game space is a perfect place to talk about harsh, uncomfortable topics by removing them a step from the real world. But I want a game to commit to the bit if they do go that route. I think Symphonia does.

[Steven]

Symphonia and the Gamecube have exactly the same thing going, honestly...

Yeah, it gets a few bonus points for existing before the omg two worlds twist played itself out, but didn't seem particularly outstanding when I got around to it.

Symphonia is... serviceable, provided you don't have almost any other game in the series. If you do, I can't think of many reasons to choose Symphonia, but it probably does have better difficulty and game balance than most of the subsequent 3D games.

What stands out to me is how like half of the game is identical to 70% of Phantasia, where you take your summoner on a world tour to beat up some elemental spirits to get to use them in battle. Of course, Klarth gets a much better deal because he doesn't have to be in overlimit to summon them, which is annoying to do in Symphonia because the game's design is pretty clumsy. Eternia has the two worlds thing several years before Symphonia existed, so even that's not new to the series.

Still, I have been considering replaying it recently. I left my Gamecube copy in the USA and the PC version is region locked and not available in Japan because Scamco is stupid, so I decided to search for my PS2 copy a few days ago. I failed to find it, but I did find Phantasia (PS1), Phantasia (PSP), Phantasia (PSP again), Radiant Mythology 2, and WAIT WHAT I BOUGHT RADIANT MYTHOLOGY 3???? I don't remember doing that, but apparently I did because here it is! Anyway, I might go find a PS4 copy of Symphonia because I don't feel like finding my Wii and a Gamecube copy and I don't like emulation, especially when I have real hardware that I'm too lazy to go dig out. There's a ton of PS4 and Switch copies at a Book Off by my house, or at least there used to be.

I'll take that cast over the pile of cheap particle board that Vesperia calls its cast, Yuri excepted, and even he's... well, secretly an edgelord, not that there's anything wrong with that. At least he takes the initiative, and it's always super cool and highly irregular to see a rather competent main dude giving most of the battle tutorials instead of being lectured about those mechanics by someone more experienced for once.

At least Graces is on the short side for this series, so if you don't like the characters, the trip won't last long, especially if you decide not to play the f part (or play the Wii version... why though?). At least, I think it is. It's been over a decade, so maybe I'm wrong and it's really long, and Tempest and Destiny remake are definitely the super short ones. It's going to be kind of sad to replay the game knowing that Inomata-sensei died earlier this year, though.

Malik and Pascal are fun, at least; each an opposing step-or-two beyond the grounded / wacky overton window that the rest of the cast exist in. Malik's exasperated oyaji schtick leans a bit toward the self-aware isn't this (thing we're doing anyway) silly?, but he still makes a likeable audience stand-in.
And I remember Graces as pretty long, though that's including the expansion - somewhere in the region of Legendia's three-arc structure.

Yeah, Pascal was good. Like Yuri, it's too bad that she isn't in a better game, but at least in this case Graces has one of the best battle systems in the series, so it's less of an issue. If the story wasn't... what it is, most of the characters more interesting, and the world map not a series of empty hallways, Graces would probably be one of the best games in the series, but as it is it's still probably elevated above the series average by the battle system, which is worth experiencing because it's so good.

Legendia is super long. Too bad they never finished the game. Hell, I never finished the game! I am so close, too. I have like one or two more character stories to go and then I'm done. I really don't like the character stories, as they are poorly paced and feel like filler tacked onto the end of the real game just to make it longer for some reason, which is why I dropped the game. Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way, but maybe not.

How is Rebirth, by the way? Always wondered about that one, but didn't want to play it with a localization guide.

It's good. One of the best battle systems in the series along with PS2 Destiny. Its story consists of... well, racism again for the second game in a row, but done in a more serious manner than Symphonia ever did it, and of course クレアアアアアアアアアア, which is why we really play the game.

You can tell that it was made by the Destiny 2 dev team not just because it plays like one of their games but also because the sprites are really good. At the point in time when the game was made, nobody aside from the recently bankrupt SNK cared about sprites anymore, but Scamco had some good pixel artists. Not Irem/Toaplan/Seibu/Raizing/Nazca level because nobody is, but still good. Animation frames are sparse outside of battle, but it works.

It is really sad that so few of the Team Destiny games made it out of Japan, as that team was clearly the better of the two Tales dev teams and it shows. They made a bunch of legendary games while Team Symphonia made Abyss, which is one of the best games in the series, and some other passable but mediocre stuff. Oh well.

I like the story of Symphonia. Lloyd and Collette are somewhat annoying as characters, but Genis is an interesting video game racist and the racial themes in general are kinda awesome. How many video games will just show an old lady being full-on whipped to death, triple-tag-team style, by concentration camp guards? I don't care who you are, but the fact they were able to show it is sweet. That was on a nintendo console too. Kratos, Sheena, Genis, Presea are all interesting characters. And for a game about video game racism, it doesn't shy away from depicting all forms of video game racism. How many times will you hear "inferior beings" when YOU play? The world may never know...

I've always said that the fantasy/game space is a perfect place to talk about harsh, uncomfortable topics by removing them a step from the real world. But I want a game to commit to the bit if they do go that route. I think Symphonia does.

Check out Rebirth, like I mentioned above. Worth playing for the cool and almost unique battle system, too! Tempest has a similar battle system, but let's try to forget about that one.

[BrianC]

I haven't heard much about Tales of Arise here. Is it not good?

[Steven]

I was planning on getting Arise as my first PS5 game just to have something to do on that system instead of using it to collect dust. Then it took me forever to actually get a PS5, so I never got Arise. Will get it on PC, although I don't know when. I might buy it during the Steam sale, but...

[Sima Tuna]

My sister is a much bigger Tales fan than me and her opinion on Arise was pretty mixed, although ultimately positive. I think Tales fans are mostly happy the series isn't 100% dead yet, despite Namco being Namco. She did say I should play it because I like racist as fuck video game narratives. (Please don't infer this to mean I like real-life racism!!! )

[BulletMagnet]

I haven't heard much about Tales of Arise here. Is it not good?

I believe there's a demo of that one if you want to sample it firsthand.

[Steven]

There is indeed a demo on PC and I am 95% sure that I saw a demo on PS5 as well.

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[Lander]

I played Arise enough to beat the first major area and reach the ice zone, and it was alright. Production's a step up, and the cast (to that point) seems more well-rounded than the norm; none of the party stuck out as the one that ruins it like the witch + squeaky familiar from Berseria. I think Berseria had the better - if more broken - combat; Arise's is serviceable, still does the 'sacrifice HP for power' thing, and has a bigger focus on tag mechanics / character switching, but it doesn't tie in as well thematically or have any stand-out systems.

As someone who's only played a couple of the Tales games but counts Graces as the personal favorite of that selection, I certainly won't argue that the cast and story are anything great, but I do think the creators deserve some credit for at least having a bit of cheeky fun with some of the tropes, especially later on in the game; my personal favorite example is how, when it comes to the contractually-obligated amnesiac character, some of the others take advantage of the situation to tell them ridiculous things and otherwise mess with them a bit, a gag I can't recall having seen appear elsewhere, which frankly seems like a missed opportunity in retrospect.

It does have some gems here and there, and the expansion time-jump goes some way to refining the characters if I recall. It's just an exhausting amount of power-of-friendship to take in stride.
I don't actually remember much about Sophie(?), beyond being a good incarnation of the punch-kick archetype.

Phantasia (PSP), Phantasia (PSP again)

Ooh, Full Voice Edition? I dunno what it is about Phantasia - probably the nostalgia of discovering the awesome PS1 version - but I've always seen it as the quintessential entry, and those PSP versions never got any love from the translation scene. Though it's probably just a matter of time before it gets another-nother redux.

Legendia is super long. Too bad they never finished the game. Hell, I never finished the game! I am so close, too. I have like one or two more character stories to go and then I'm done. I really don't like the character stories, as they are poorly paced and feel like filler tacked onto the end of the real game just to make it longer for some reason, which is why I dropped the game. Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way, but maybe not.

Same, I remember beating two major plot arcs, and falling off somewhere after that. I've a fondness for its unique feel versus the other games of its time; kind of roughshod and back-to-basics, nothing super flashy, but an interesting setting. Plus some extra points for making the MC a martial artist instead of a swordsman, if quite edgelordy.

Rebirth and Destiny R are my faves of the series. I prefer Destiny R's combat, but Rebirth's is still quite good (I'm playing the English patch multiplayer with friends!) and the story and character dynamics are my fave.

It's good. One of the best battle systems in the series along with PS2 Destiny. Its story consists of... well, racism again for the second game in a row, but done in a more serious manner than Symphonia ever did it, and of course クレアアアアアアアアアア, which is why we really play the game.

Nice, I'll have to give it a look next time I'm in the mood; got a bit caught up in pursuing Destiny DC's Big Combo to give the systems much mind, but they look engaging.

And man, it's like Yakuza 5 with its serially-montageable yume wa THEMES!

[Steven]

Phantasia (PSP), Phantasia (PSP again)

Ooh, Full Voice Edition? I dunno what it is about Phantasia - probably the nostalgia of discovering the awesome PS1 version - but I've always seen it as the quintessential entry, and those PSP versions never got any love from the translation scene. Though it's probably just a matter of time before it gets another-nother redux.

And Cross Edition. Cross Edition is interesting, but I know some people hate it because of Rody. Between FVE and Cross Edition, most purists are going to tell people to play FVE and forget that Cross Edition exists because Rody is out-of-place and kind of fucks up the story, but I think the Cross Edition battle system is more interesting than FVE, which is pretty much just PS1 Phantasia with more voice acting and different character sprites, which I've taken a liking to recently.

I used to prefer the original massive head sprites, but looking at them now, the FVE sprites are much better proportioned... and of course they didn't update any of the other sprites, so Cless and friends don't match with anything else. Dhaos also got a new voice actor starting with the OVA because the original voice actor died, which sucks, and Dhaos of course has the new voice actor in both PSP versions. Cross Edition is faster and removes the pause when magic occurs, so it plays pretty differently and much more like Eternia. I haven't played it since its release, so I should probably do that soon.

Either way, PS1 and FVE are still some of the best games in the series. Not sure if that's a sign of how by-the-numbers the series became after it moved away from the PS2, with Xillia in particular seeming like the point at which the series itself was seriously burned out, or proof that the PS1 version really is that damn good, but that's how it is.

Legendia is super long. Too bad they never finished the game. Hell, I never finished the game! I am so close, too. I have like one or two more character stories to go and then I'm done. I really don't like the character stories, as they are poorly paced and feel like filler tacked onto the end of the real game just to make it longer for some reason, which is why I dropped the game. Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way, but maybe not.

Same, I remember beating two major plot arcs, and falling off somewhere after that. I've a fondness for its unique feel versus the other games of its time; kind of roughshod and back-to-basics, nothing super flashy, but an interesting setting. Plus some extra points for making the MC a martial artist instead of a swordsman, if quite edgelordy.

I had a lot of fun with Legendia until I got to the character quests. Then I stopped caring. I do want to finish it eventually, but it's been almost 20 years since I played it, so I'll probably restart... actually, my save file is on my PS3, which I am not turning on if I can help it, so I have no choice but to either find a PS2 <-> PS3 memory card converter or restart. Damn it, why did they make the PS3 that has the best PS2 compatibility such an unreliable piece of shit...?

Rebirth and Destiny R are my faves of the series. I prefer Destiny R's combat, but Rebirth's is still quite good (I'm playing the English patch multiplayer with friends!) and the story and character dynamics are my fave.

It's good. One of the best battle systems in the series along with PS2 Destiny. Its story consists of... well, racism again for the second game in a row, but done in a more serious manner than Symphonia ever did it, and of course クレアアアアアアアアアア, which is why we really play the game.

Nice, I'll have to give it a look next time I'm in the mood; got a bit caught up in pursuing Destiny DC's Big Combo to give the systems much mind, but they look engaging.

And man, it's like Yakuza 5 with its serially-montageable yume wa THEMES!

Oh yeah, there is also peach pie in Rebirth. Can't believe I forgot about that. Those are the two main things of the game: Claire and peach pie, and that's why everyone plays it.

[BulletMagnet]

It's just an exhausting amount of power-of-friendship to take in stride.

Heh, it very much is, but I honestly have to admit that was one of the things I came to like most about goofy ol' Asbel; he's a single-minded lunkhead of the highest order, but if you're gonna be facepalm-ishly devoted to one thing there are worse options than "gotta go all out for my pals, every single time!" The fact that he goes so unreservedly hard on keeping the proverbial band together has led me to opine that ever having him give up or otherwise go back on that would kind of ruin his character, even if it'd make him more relatable or believable; he's basically the anime dude version of Fry's dog from Futurama.

[Steven]

Asbel is kind of a ridiculous character. I suppose Graces consists of nothing but ridiculous characters, but he stands out, and only partially because of the weird disco suit thing that he wears.

Speaking of Graces f, it seems that they're making the Grade shop available at the beginning of the first playthrough and giving the player a decent amount of Grade to buy a bunch of stuff with it. Having the Grade shop and a bunch of Grade at the start of your first playthrough is so weird. I'm probably not going to buy anything in the Grade shop on first playthrough, but it depends on what's there. The one screenshot of the loop 1 Grade shop on the Japanese website shows that half EXP and double critical rate are options that you can start with, so you can make the game hard from the start if you want.

Also looks like the lighting has been very slightly improved, which is nice. It's still going to look like a Wii game, but that's fine.

On that subject, I did look into the PS4 version of Symphonia yesterday and it seems that they really changed the colors and used AI upscaling to poorly upscale the graphics in this version. Not sure how I feel about either of those things, so I am probably going to skip the PS4 version and actually put in the effort to get the Japanese Gamecube version running somehow, but not now. I have other stuff to play.

[Sima Tuna]

Grade Shop on standard NG is very strange. I would only purchase stuff from the shop that amounts to fun bonuses or sidegrades. Nothing that makes the game experience substantially easier.

[Steven]

In Graces, double damage and double critical rate affect both the player and the enemy, so those might be fun for a fresh playthrough if you've played the game before. I don't think I'm going to go for the ones that add extra CC or increased EXP or anything else like that for first playthrough. I'll see what options there are for first playthrough, but I'll probably get nothing and then subtract whatever Grade it gives me from what I end up with when I do loop 2 so I don't feel like I cheated to get extra Grade... but maybe not. Haven't decided yet.

It looks like the player is given 3190 Grade for the loop 1 Grade shop, which is more than enough to buy a bunch of stuff, but I haven't seen exactly what's available on loop 1. Won't be able to inherit anything from a previous loop on loop 1, of course, having not obtained any of it yet, but I'm kind of expecting most of the other regular options are there.

They also added an auto save and you can retry any battle now, so it's almost impossible to truly game over in this version unless you choose to do so. Not sure how I feel about that, but if you die against zako you can choose to load your save instead of retrying the battle if that's how you want to do it.

The Switch version looks to run at 30 FPS at all times even though the PS3 version was 60 FPS in battle, and so was Vesperia on Switch! It's like developers aren't even trying with the Switch anymore.

[ryu]

Think I'll be getting the new Graces f at a discount later on just to own a version with japanese voice over. Game's really good all things considered but I have no idea when I'd want to replay it over playing something else.

[Steven]

I checked out the Tales of Arise demo for a short time. Even on my PS4-era PC it defaulted to max settings and runs there at ~140 FPS with no issues, so that's pretty cool... not that I actually have a monitor that can go that high, but if I did, I could do it! Gonna try for 60 FPS on Steam Deck in a few minutes, but I doubt it will happen. Edit: it kind of works. You can get like 55~60 FPS at native resolution if you set all of the graphics to off or their lowest settings. Surprisingly, it doesn't look completely terrible like this! Definitely not the best way to play it, especially because it's unstable and still runs at about 90% GPU usage and will probably annihilate your battery in a hurry, but it does run better than on PS4 and Xbox One, supposedly, so if you don't have a normal PC, PS5, or Xbox Series and are okay with staying pretty close to a charging thingy, I'd call it acceptable.

This game is very different from the rest of the series, which I guess is good-ish? At least it's trying something new instead of doing the same thing with a different cast for the six trillionth time. I can't play this series without a Playstation controller due to 20 years of muscle memory, and of course this game doesn't use the old controls. It seems fine otherwise, so I'll probably buy it eventually.

[NYN]

SEGA Flicky

Enamored with the birdy, Mega Drivo version. Quick, cute, just fun. The Hedgehog does not exist. I can hardly stand early labyrinthine games, such as the Pac, and his clones, Bubble Bobble, etc. Feel like the emphasis is too much on the puzzle. Flicky feels more as action should, it's aces. Knocking the felines around over the screen is inimitable. Haven't cleared it. I can't believe there's no AGES for the current overly entitled gen. Shamefur.

[m.sniffles.esq]

Flicky holds a special place in my heart because the US and JP versions are on the same cart, so when I installed a us/jp switch on a Genesis I got for $5 at Goodwill, it was my test cart.

I mean, I honestly enjoy the game too...

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I'm currently working on a video and text walkthrough for Wrath of Earth, an older MS-DOS first person shooter / puzzle game that's aesthetically top notch, but has a number of bugs and issues that would benefit from a walkthrough. There's one in Russian kicking around that covers things well but I figured I'd use what I learned from playing and make my own available as well.

I discovered the game has a bug where picking up an item when your inventory is full causes the picked up item to disappear, and the inventory screen's drop command gets garbled text. This is a problem on levels where you're hauling around 6 key items as well as Proximity Mines and ECM Systems!

I also discovered ECM Systems are way more abusable than I knew about. They disable all projectile attacks from enemies, at the cost of like 75% energy to activate. They'll also break if you take 4 or 5 hits, so holding onto one for any appreciable length of time is very hard, as things will start firing immediately when it runs out, and there's no timer showing it. You either gotta time it yourself or learn the timing.

EXCEPT THERE'S A TRICK! And as all good powergamers or people struggling with a janky game will tell you, feel free to lean hard on any tricks that aren't outright cheating or bug abuse. In this case, ECM Systems are actually the most abusable tool in your arsenal, saving you a lot of energy in the long run by preventing damage taken, and you can avoid the risk of an ECM System getting busted by dropping it immediately after using it, which keeps the buff active! The mech rooms with the bombs you need to collect in level 5? Just use an ECM System, run in and grab the bomb, and run out before it wears off! So much easier than trying to fight it out with them. It also works on the highest tier enemies in the game, oddly enough, allowing you to deal with several otherwise bullshit ambushes in level 9, some awful rooms halfway into level 11, and the boss fight in level 12 where standing at the door slowly recovers energy, allowing you to use the ECM System and run in and get blasting, drop mines, etc. You can run up to enemies and drop a mine at point blank range to kill them, it's oneshot to everything, ahahah.

I love the skyboxes in this game, they're also amazing. You can actually tell where you need to go in some of the levels because the skybox is laid out so it aligns with the map and where the exit is. this mostly applies in the first and last outdoor areas, but it's still very nifty.

Despite having only 12 levels, it's a really long game. The maps are absolutely gargantuan, and you can only carry a very limited amount of ammunition. There's a lot of optional bits of the levels you can skip in some instances though, and then there's others like 9 and 11 where you're basically going to have to traverse the entire map, and even do some backtracking for supplies.

[neorichieb1971]

Cocoon -

Loved Limbo, so gave it a try. I love it when the reviewers say its 6 hour game and it has puzzles in it I couldn't figure out in 6 years. Although I love linear puzzle games of the adventure type, they are silly when they are so complicated that you need to watch a youtube to do it. It was entertaining watching the youtube though when he says "if its not immediate obvious".

Yeah lmao. I did about 90% myself, but the ending man.. the last puzzle is so out there, I dunno. You can beat it in 3 hours if you watch the youtube. If not, good luck...

[m.sniffles.esq]

Yeah lmao. I did about 90% myself, but the ending man.. the last puzzle is so out there, I dunno. You can beat it in 3 hours if you watch the youtube. If not, good luck...

While I understand what you're saying, in all fairness, it was actually with Limbo's release that I realized what I considered to be a 'puzzle game' was going to become extinct sooner than later. As those 15-20 years younger than I had an entirely different concept and approach to such a thing.

After reading the 450th 'review' of Limbo that consisted of "$20 for 40 minutes of gameplay. Easily the biggest rip-off I've ever experienced", I felt compelled to ask "You seriously figured all that out in 40 minutes??", and was met with a resounding chorus of:

"Figure out?? LOL Why would I waste time trying to figure all that out? I just looked at a guide"

"So you didn't even attempt surmounting any part of the game on your own?"

"Who the fuck does that? That's what guides are for"

"Okay, I have to ask, why would you even sit down and play a puzzle game if you're not going to make any attempt to solve the puzzles??"

"To get to the end, dummy. That's why you play any game"

(just to clarify, the above wasn't from one person, but like 20. Of course when I inquired about ages, they were universally younger than me)

In the olden days, having a nonsensical/obtuse/easily missed element was considered either bad design or a sleazy method of selling strategy guides. Now they're de riguer, and what was once considered 'obtuse' is now thought of as 'depth'. I remember reading some "I'm 26, and I'm going to play some video game 'classics' that were made before I was born" 'think-piece' or whatever in Polygon or Kotaku a couple years ago. The author plays Infocom's Hitchhiker's Guide and complains that it's 'dated' because the puzzles are either 'simplistic' or 'obvious'. I'm certain they seem that way when you're looking at the solution before you even get to the puzzle

tl;dr you're correct, but that's what the kids are into, I suppose

[BareKnuckleRoo]

It's possibly not laziness but it might be a case of encountering stuff like Fez where some stuff is really obtuse to the point of not being user friendly (the last puzzle, case in point). If you play several puzzle games that throw ridiculous stuff at you I guess maybe you'd get discouraged from having to brute force / trial and error something for the umpteenth time?

I do think that you should play any new game with the assumption the game is fair and give any puzzle you meet a solid 30 minutes to an hour to work through to puzzle out. Using a guide on a first playthrough of anything just ruins things. It's fair to use a guide for a hint if you're really stumped, or ask a friend, but don't let it hand hold you.

[neorichieb1971]

Cocoon is on another level of difficult in the last 20%. So the game is forcing a hell of a lot of people to use a guide for that.

Its like your building an engine made of parts and it has to work perfectly. Without telling you you need to build an engine.. But that last puzzle I wouldn't have gotten that if you gave me years. I mean, I like Zelda type puzzles , imagine Zelda having puzzles like Cocoon in it

Its ok if your prompted, or use the building blocks of the game gradually, but to throw a new kind of puzzle that brings 4 mutiverses together into one is for the Einsteins only, and to have that at 99% completion is just really cruel. Its a great game to be fair and I recommend it for those who like head scratching. I would go out and say that 1% of gameplayers will beat that game without a guide.

And yeah, these games should go exstinct really because if you know how to solve the puzzles by watching them alone, there is really nothing to beat. I suppose the bosses are the only skill element in the game.

[m.sniffles.esq]

Using a guide on a first playthrough of anything just ruins things. It's fair to use a guide for a hint if you're really stumped, or ask a friend, but don't let it hand hold you.

I sorta thought everyone felt that way, but apparently this is some old fogey thinking along the lines of owning music, watching movies in theaters, burning and inhaling plants, etc.

"Consult a guide when you get stuck? Why bother waiting until then? Why waste so much time doing the wrong thing, when you can just immediately do the right thing?"

So while I concur Cocoon gets... pretty bad (especially towards the end), when one figures a large percentage of the audience is looking at a guide before they even start the game, and at the same time, will penalize the game for being 'too obvious', I can't say I blame the devs for going down that path.

While the metric of success for that type of game used to be engagement and cleverness, it now seems to have been changed to merely the amount of time ground away.

[neorichieb1971]

Using a guide on a first playthrough of anything just ruins things. It's fair to use a guide for a hint if you're really stumped, or ask a friend, but don't let it hand hold you.

I sorta thought everyone felt that way, but apparently this is some old fogey thinking along the lines of owning music, watching movies in theaters, burning and inhaling plants, etc.

"Consult a guide when you get stuck? Why bother waiting until then? Why waste so much time doing the wrong thing, when you can just immediately do the right thing?"

So while I concur Cocoon gets... pretty bad (especially towards the end), when one figures a large percentage of the audience is looking at a guide before they even start the game, and at the same time, will penalize the game for being 'too obvious', I can't say I blame the devs for going down that path.

While the metric of success for that type of game used to be engagement and cleverness, it now seems to have been changed to merely the amount of time ground away.

I'm playing Cocoon on 2nd run just playing through memorizing it so get that satisfaction. I've looked up the answer twice and am at 92%. Some things that I noticed in the gameplay is that although a 3D platformer there are no platforming aspects at all regarding the playable fly thing. I also believe every game should give you building knowledge material to solve later puzzles. Unfortunately the game is devoid of any text, any helper, any pointers. Its just you and the puzzle. The problem that most folk will fall into is that the resolution to the puzzle isn't necessarily on the screen you're on. It's somewhere else and that somewhere else could be anywhere in 3 or 4 multiverses near the end. The last few puzzles involve joining those multiverses together and in some cases you can only move forward if you get your timing right as well. Thats an awful lot to join together in one's brain. Strangely, on 2nd run I am actually understanding the logic better but I would never have thought of it off the cuff of my limited brain.


In other news, In Mickeys Tokyo Disnleyland adventure on Super Famicom i've reached stage 6. Another game that stumped me on 2 places but I guess me not having Japanese language skills could have got me over that. Level 6 is the last level. For some reason its one of the SFC games that seems to have a heavy weighted and slightly delayed jump mechanism. Its like you need to press the button before you need to. Its not lag there are other games that do it on the SFC. I find on the Megadrive that games are more responsive. But then again some SFC games are very responsive.

I recently played Wavetale and El Shaddai on the Switch. Beat them both. Wavetale was enjoyable but suffers from a bug 75% in, on the serpant stage. If you do the Serpents in the wrong order the game goes into a loop which stops you progressing. I asked Nintendo to force save slots so that in these cases you don't have to start again, but they refused and said a patch would suffice. Since I put a message on a youtube for the game several others have fallen into the trap and just refused to start again. Which I kind of understand considering you might fall into it again even though I told them the order in which progress can be accomplished. Unfortunately going back to the save point that it gives you saves after each serpent, so you are left with the one remaining that loops.

El Shaddai and Wavetale are weird... I actually couldn't find a way to die in the games. You can get stumped on puzzles, but there is literally no way to die. Cocoon is also like that. How did I find 3 games in which you cannot die, and 2 of them still find a way to stop progression

I will go back to Mickeys Disneyland Adventure to beat stage 6 on SFC, then the next game is Doremi Fantasy, which I bought for a lot of money. I have 2 repro carts, but both don't initiate the bonus round stages and crash the game instead. Unfortunately the doors to those stages look like the same doors that exit a level. I find it very relaxing and enjoyable for a SFC game and it has an excellent atmosphere and graphic style. One of the lesser well known titles on the SFC.

[KAI]

As I mentioned on another thread, I finally got a gpu a few weeks ago (a GTX1060) and I went full gamer mode.

Been playing:
Initial D Arcade Stage 8
Wangan Midnight Maximum Tune 6
Metroid Dread
13 Sentinels (go play this shit, seriously!)
Muramasa Rebirth
Shinobido 2 (tenchu 5 never...)
Shiren 5
Trails into Reverie
Gimmick! Special Edition

I know I Need to calm down a little, but I've miseed a lot of great games during this last decade.
Plan to play Ace Combat 7, Sekiro and Doom 2016 this month, and maybe more IIDX and PS2 lightgun games, since I got these last january and didnt use them as much as i should

Spoiler

[guigui]

13 Sentinels (go play this shit, seriously!)

I was looking for a nice visual novel for some time (last one I played to the end was 999 and some early Ace Attorney). Bought this reading good review and Vanillaware, tried it for 20 minutes after a tough work day, fell asleep !

Never launched it ever since ; will you be the one to write a short sentence to sell me the game again ?