RetroTink 4K All But Officially Announced ....

[Konsolkongen]

Please let us know

A shame Mike doesn’t visit this forum anymore :/

Since when doesnt he visit anymore?

I can’t tell you when but he doesn’t seem to answer any questions in the RT5X thread anymore.

[bobrocks95]

Going to ask Mike on twitter (Game Sack's video will probably cover it too) if LPCM 5.1 will be supported on the HDMI input, or if Wii U, Switch, and PS3 will need their audio routed separately...

Please let us know

A shame Mike doesn’t visit this forum anymore :/

Joe (Game Sack) said it does not do passthrough for LPCM 5.1, and the Morph 4K won't either. Not sure what the best way to route things will be then. I think an AVR with 2 outputs, one to a scaler one to a TV would do alright, but they're fairly limited on inputs.

[Guspaz]

Mike's hoping to pass through any audio it gets on the input to the output regardless of format, but audio hasn't been a focus of development yet and so for audio passthrough he's more or less not done any work on it yet other than the bare minimum. Remember that the thing is still under active development, is still a few months away from release, and even after release there will be lots of work left to do, all the "nice to haves" that he couldn't get done in time for launch.

He said he'd also eventually like to do audio resampling since that can help compatibility with things like the odd toslink audio signal from a modded SNES.

[Konsolkongen]

Going to ask Mike on twitter (Game Sack's video will probably cover it too) if LPCM 5.1 will be supported on the HDMI input, or if Wii U, Switch, and PS3 will need their audio routed separately...

Please let us know

A shame Mike doesn’t visit this forum anymore :/

Joe (Game Sack) said it does not do passthrough for LPCM 5.1, and the Morph 4K won't either. Not sure what the best way to route things will be then. I think an AVR with 2 outputs, one to a scaler one to a TV would do alright, but they're fairly limited on inputs.

That should work well for me. My AVR is HDMI 2.0 and has three outputs. So the scaler would have to be connected to the TV directly for VRR to work. Usually I would just run audio back through eARC.

Both the RT4K and Morph will be limited to HDMI 2.0 on their input anyway right?

[bobrocks95]

Mike's hoping to pass through any audio it gets on the input to the output regardless of format, but audio hasn't been a focus of development yet and so for audio passthrough he's more or less not done any work on it yet other than the bare minimum. Remember that the thing is still under active development, is still a few months away from release, and even after release there will be lots of work left to do, all the "nice to haves" that he couldn't get done in time for launch.

He said he'd also eventually like to do audio resampling since that can help compatibility with things like the odd toslink audio signal from a modded SNES.

Oh, PixelFX said the receiver chip they were using couldn't support 5.1 channel LPCM, and I was assuming the Tink 4K was in a similar boat. If the hardware on the Tink 4K is capable of doing it and Mike just hasn't gotten around to it yet, that's totally different and of course understandable. Joe's no just made me think oh it won't be possible at all due to hardware constraints.

That should work well for me. My AVR is HDMI 2.0 and has three outputs. So the scaler would have to be connected to the TV directly for VRR to work. Usually I would just run audio back through eARC.

Both the RT4K and Morph will be limited to HDMI 2.0 on their input anyway right?

Think it's lower, 1.4 or something. 1080p60 max from everything I've read.

[strygo]

I watched Bob's video yesterday. I will say two things: I believe the device in fact deserves the hype and its price will be the limiting factor in its adoption. Separately, I found the pseudo-planned coordination by content creators (upcoming videos by DF Retro, Game Sack and MLiG) distasteful and worry it may diminish their objectivity. The coordinated activity feels like PR. Will the Pixel Fx product get the same treatment? I say this as a complete fan of everyone mentioned (including Retro Tink and Pixel Fx) - I'm curious if I'm alone in my thinking here.

[bobrocks95]

I watched Bob's video yesterday. I will say two things: I believe the device in fact deserves the hype and its price will be the limiting factor in its adoption. Separately, I found the pseudo-planned coordination by content creators (upcoming videos by DF Retro, Game Sack and MLiG) distasteful and worry it may diminish their objectivity. The coordinated activity feels like PR. Will the Pixel Fx product get the same treatment? I say this as a complete fan of everyone mentioned (including Retro Tink and Pixel Fx) - I'm curious if I'm alone in my thinking here.

If there wasn't a competing product announced around the same time would you feel the same way? Lots of test units went out to people who are able to help Mike find bugs and edge cases, and a good number of them happen to also be content creators. PixelFX, as much as I like them, are quite behind on doing the same it seems like. I still don't think we have footage or screens they said they'd zip up and release a few weeks ago?

[strygo]

If there wasn't a competing product announced around the same time would you feel the same way? Lots of test units went out to people who are able to help Mike find bugs and edge cases, and a good number of them happen to also be content creators. PixelFX, as much as I like them, are quite behind on doing the same it seems like. I still don't think we have footage or screens they said they'd zip up and release a few weeks ago?

I'm not sure. I don't blame Mike for using them to get the word out, and in fact I'd like these folks giving early feedback so that the devices are in good shape when they hit the market. The coordination creates the appearance of partiality, and that's what stood out to me.

Strictly from a review perspective, I'm fine with them overlapping coverage since they would otherwise approach topics from slightly different angles. So whatever benefit they get from dividing and conquering ultimately seems unhelpful.

[strayan]

I watched Bob's video yesterday. I will say two things: I believe the device in fact deserves the hype and its price will be the limiting factor in its adoption. Separately, I found the pseudo-planned coordination by content creators (upcoming videos by DF Retro, Game Sack and MLiG) distasteful and worry it may diminish their objectivity. The coordinated activity feels like PR. Will the Pixel Fx product get the same treatment? I say this as a complete fan of everyone mentioned (including Retro Tink and Pixel Fx) - I'm curious if I'm alone in my thinking here.

I don’t care about objectivity or who reviews it. I know what it does already. What about the PixelFX scaler? Do I care that one group of neckbeards on youtube perhaps say more nice things about one particular video game scaler than another? No I do not. But wait, what if one manufacturer’s scaler is cheaper than the other, what then? Well see here’s the thing, I don’t care about that either. I already buy things that are more expensive than other things everyday of the week and the world doesn’t end nor do I decompensate psychologically. Sometimes I even deliberately pay more for less!

[SGGG2]

If the emulator itself doesn’t support AA, install ReShade. I believe emulators scale the image first before applying effects, but using ReShade for post processing will ensure it.

What's the minimum added latency you can expect by using ReShade or any other shader?

I tried 4 different AA effects in PCSX2, 4k screen resolution and native internal res. 3 were about half a millisecond. One was 1.5ms.

[Guspaz]

Oh, PixelFX said the receiver chip they were using couldn't support 5.1 channel LPCM, and I was assuming the Tink 4K was in a similar boat. If the hardware on the Tink 4K is capable of doing it and Mike just hasn't gotten around to it yet, that's totally different and of course understandable. Joe's no just made me think oh it won't be possible at all due to hardware constraints.

I don't want to misrepresent anything here... Mike said that he hasn't looked into audio yet (other than the bare minimum, obviously). There may be hardware limitations that there just hasn't been an opportunity to talk about yet, or it's possible he hasn't had time to look into what limitations there are since he hasn't started on the full audio support yet. 7.1 channel PCM support existed in HDMI 1.0, so we can't make any assumptions about the capability of the receiver just yet.

I found the pseudo-planned coordination by content creators (upcoming videos by DF Retro, Game Sack and MLiG) distasteful and worry it may diminish their objectivity. The coordinated activity feels like PR

Mike sent out this batch of test units all at the same time, so they arrived at roughly the same time, so they all published their experience at roughly the same time. I don't think there's any pseudo-planned coordination going on here. I think it's just the result of "I think this is in a state where it'll be useful to get feedback, let's send a batch of test units out. I'll go drop them all off at the post-office today."

[bobrocks95]

Oh, PixelFX said the receiver chip they were using couldn't support 5.1 channel LPCM, and I was assuming the Tink 4K was in a similar boat. If the hardware on the Tink 4K is capable of doing it and Mike just hasn't gotten around to it yet, that's totally different and of course understandable. Joe's no just made me think oh it won't be possible at all due to hardware constraints.

I don't want to misrepresent anything here... Mike said that he hasn't looked into audio yet (other than the bare minimum, obviously). There may be hardware limitations that there just hasn't been an opportunity to talk about yet, or it's possible he hasn't had time to look into what limitations there are since he hasn't started on the full audio support yet. 7.1 channel PCM support existed in HDMI 1.0, so we can't make any assumptions about the capability of the receiver just yet.

Would be nice, guess we'll find out. PixelFX said they're using ADV7611 for HDMI processing, which is SPDIF for audio input (2 channels LPCM + compressed 5.1). That's what's creating the hardware limitation there, so it could depend on the HDMI receiver Mike went with, unless there's some trickery that can be done for direct passthrough.

[Guspaz]

One thing we can definitely say is that the toslink input on the RT4K won't do PCM 5.1. Right now it also only passes PCM 2.0 and nothing else (because PCM 2.0 passthrough is the only digital audio implemented so far), but the plan there is to support passing anything from toslink to HDMI that you can fit in the toslink. I don't think HDMI digital audio input has really been discussed yet.

[dandiego]

Going to ask Mike on twitter (Game Sack's video will probably cover it too) if LPCM 5.1 will be supported on the HDMI input, or if Wii U, Switch, and PS3 will need their audio routed separately...

Please let us know

A shame Mike doesn’t visit this forum anymore :/

Joe (Game Sack) said it does not do passthrough for LPCM 5.1, and the Morph 4K won't either. Not sure what the best way to route things will be then. I think an AVR with 2 outputs, one to a scaler one to a TV would do alright, but they're fairly limited on inputs.

RetroRGB also covered this in his video at this timestamp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3ep6sw0c8Y&t=1482s

[EnragedWhale]

My plan has always been to split the HDMI output from my HDMI switch using the cheap splitter Bob recommends. One output to the RT4K and one to my receiver. That should work and retain LPCM 5.1 to my receiver right? Also in the PS3 case I believe it’s needed to strip the HDCP?

[bobrocks95]

Please let us know

A shame Mike doesn’t visit this forum anymore :/

Joe (Game Sack) said it does not do passthrough for LPCM 5.1, and the Morph 4K won't either. Not sure what the best way to route things will be then. I think an AVR with 2 outputs, one to a scaler one to a TV would do alright, but they're fairly limited on inputs.

RetroRGB also covered this in his video at this timestamp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3ep6sw0c8Y&t=1482s

Oh it is covered in that video, but I wasn't watching the screen closely enough to see the stereo audio text, despite how long it was on there. His voiceover focuses completely on Dolby Atmos for some reason so I was thinking well that doesn't apply to anything you'd ever plug into the Tink 4K.

[Unseen]

but the plan there is to support passing anything from toslink to HDMI that you can fit in the toslink.

Oooh, Alesis Lightpipe for 8 channel input? ;)

(just joking, I have never used it and don't own any hardware that could support it)

[spmbx]

I can't think of a scenario where in my usage i would have the need for a multichannel audio passthtrough function, so i'm curious what kindof setup you guys are running that makes you want that.

Regarding the tribalism, it reminds me of the console wars. A small vocal minority likes the online drama a bit too much, the rest of us just get both consoles ( /scalers ) and call it a day.

[bobrocks95]

I can't think of a scenario where in my usage i would have the need for a multichannel audio passthtrough function, so i'm curious what kindof setup you guys are running that makes you want that.

Regarding the tribalism, it reminds me of the console wars. A small vocal minority likes the online drama a bit too much, the rest of us just get both consoles ( /scalers ) and call it a day.

PS3, Wii U, and Switch into the Tink 4K and then eARC from the TV into an A/V receiver. Could plug those straight into the AVR if you have one with two HDMI outputs, but ports are limited so more options are always appreciated.

[tongshadow]

My guess is that if someone is willing to spend nearly a thousand for a high-end video equipment, such person at least already has his/her audio setup figured out.
Not a dealbreaker.

[768peeistrash]

Oh, PixelFX said the receiver chip they were using couldn't support 5.1 channel LPCM, and I was assuming the Tink 4K was in a similar boat. If the hardware on the Tink 4K is capable of doing it and Mike just hasn't gotten around to it yet, that's totally different and of course understandable. Joe's no just made me think oh it won't be possible at all due to hardware constraints.

I don't want to misrepresent anything here... Mike said that he hasn't looked into audio yet (other than the bare minimum, obviously). There may be hardware limitations that there just hasn't been an opportunity to talk about yet, or it's possible he hasn't had time to look into what limitations there are since he hasn't started on the full audio support yet. 7.1 channel PCM support existed in HDMI 1.0, so we can't make any assumptions about the capability of the receiver just yet.

I found the pseudo-planned coordination by content creators (upcoming videos by DF Retro, Game Sack and MLiG) distasteful and worry it may diminish their objectivity. The coordinated activity feels like PR

Mike sent out this batch of test units all at the same time, so they arrived at roughly the same time, so they all published their experience at roughly the same time. I don't think there's any pseudo-planned coordination going on here. I think it's just the result of "I think this is in a state where it'll be useful to get feedback, let's send a batch of test units out. I'll go drop them all off at the post-office today."

why not both? PR and getting feedback about it / testing done?

is there something wrong with the combo?

[bobrocks95]

My guess is that if someone is willing to spend nearly a thousand for a high-end video equipment, such person at least already has his/her audio setup figured out.
Not a dealbreaker.

It's sorted right now... Until I add the Tink 4K into the mix. Do you think 5.1 LPCM passthrough is that crazy of a feature request?

[Konsolkongen]

My guess is that if someone is willing to spend nearly a thousand for a high-end video equipment, such person at least already has his/her audio setup figured out.
Not a dealbreaker.

It's sorted right now... Until I add the Tink 4K into the mix. Do you think 5.1 LPCM passthrough is that crazy of a feature request?

And 7.1 LPCM for PS3, but hopefully that’s not much more complicated than 5.1

[tongshadow]

My guess is that if someone is willing to spend nearly a thousand for a high-end video equipment, such person at least already has his/her audio setup figured out.
Not a dealbreaker.

It's sorted right now... Until I add the Tink 4K into the mix. Do you think 5.1 LPCM passthrough is that crazy of a feature request?

If it means added production costs or hardware changes, then it could happen on a future revision, like when the OSSC got HDMI output instead of DVI. If it's merely a software implementation then it's not unreasonable to ask for it, but wont be a priority over other features because we all know that audio isnt the main focus of these retroscalers.

[pewpewpewpewpewpew]

I'd have thought this would be made with the full capabilities of the PS3/360/Switch in mind. Surprising to hear it can't use some audio modes. Certainly cuts down on the convenience a bit.

[Guspaz]

The exact audio capabilities have not yet been revealed. The current pcm 2.0 limitation is because work has not started on audio yet, but Mike wanted some basic support working for testing.

[EnragedWhale]

Joe Redifer of Gamesack is reporting that the RT4K will now pass through up to 7.1 LPCM which should be sufficient for most people needs

Won’t do atmos but can’t see that being much of an issue

[pewpewpewpewpewpew]

Joe Redifer of Gamesack is reporting that the RT4K will now pass through up to 7.1 LPCM which should be sufficient for most people needs

Won’t do atmos but can’t see that being much of an issue

Only the modern Xbox consoles have Atmos so it's not really important.

[Konsolkongen]

Joe Redifer of Gamesack is reporting that the RT4K will now pass through up to 7.1 LPCM which should be sufficient for most people needs

Won’t do atmos but can’t see that being much of an issue

Only the modern Xbox consoles have Atmos so it's not really important.

PS5 just got it recently.

[bobrocks95]

Don't see where he said it but great news! HDCP on PS3 is probably the only remaining setup hurdle. Wonder if there are any tiny dongles that would let me strip it just for that one input rather than say a switch that strips it.

At this point I have money saved and I'll probably crack and just buy whichever 4K scaler comes out first, regardless of price/comparisons. HDMI-CEC and better integration with other PixelFX HDMI mods (just ordered an N64 Gem) might be the Morph's unique strength, though I'm hopeful Mike gets things working nicely there too; not like he makes competing HDMI mods.

I'm thinking at the very least I can set GEM kits to output at 720p, doing their built-in automatic perfect sampling, and then that should be a generic enough output regardless of input res for the Tink to sample perfectly as well. I just don't want to ever have to look up a PS1 game's internal res or switch sampling modes around between games ever again.